Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Falling to the dark side doesn't gain you extra power. It referred to battle prowess IMO, which is the only reason we say sidious is more powerful than Yoda. And I don't have the quote, so Aurbere, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's "The galaxy would ever know" so.... Nothing to do with Sidious' zenith.The quote was referring to Yoda reaching the fullest extent of his potential, which could only be unlocked through the power of the dark side. Light siders always become more powerful when falling to the dark side. I am at a loss as to what this stuff about "battle prowess" is about - since when does falling to the dark side automatically make you more functional in battle? The two couldn't be anymore mutually exclusive. EDIT: Not to say that the dark side is more powerful, its just an easier way of acheiving your full potential which even after 900 years it doesn't seem like Yoda has been able to do... heck maybe the dark side just is stronger! Edited January 31, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 You may have to re-think all the threads now, if the post-ROTJ is gone and the rumors are true that said characters are also gone. Yeah, even if that is true. I'd wait until the new movies are out so we can gauge the abiliites of these new characters. Until then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am actually thinking you may be correct here I think Satele may be above Saba, but I dont know about her off the list I cant think of some one to knock her off the list entirely. Though I will say I also think Sateele should be above Meetra as well. I was thinking Obi-Wan Kenobi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Falling to the dark side doesn't gain you extra power. It referred to battle prowess IMO, which is the only reason we say sidious is more powerful than Yoda. And I don't have the quote, so Aurbere, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's "The galaxy would ever know" so.... Nothing to do with Sidious' zenith. Give me some time and I'll fetch the quote for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 I was thinking Obi-Wan Kenobi.I don't think Kenobi is all that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't think Kenobi is all that great. I think he's more powerful than Saba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Give me some time and I'll fetch the quote for you.Lol, I found it by accident. At this moment Yoda turned, and Dooku gasped. Whether it was the play of the holomonitors, beaming their views of bleak space and distant battles, or some other trick of the light, Yoda's face was deeply hidden in the shadows, mottled black and blue, so that for one terrifying instant he looked exactly like Darth Sidious. Or rather, it was Yoda as he might have been, or could yet become: a Yoda gone rotten, a Yoda whose awesome powers had been utterly unleashed by his connection to the dark side. In a flash Dooku saw how foolish he had been, trying to urge the old Master to the dark side. If Yoda ever turned that way, Sidious himself would be annihilated. The universe had yet to comprehend the kind of evil that a Jedi Knight of nearly nine hundred years could wield. So what we can conclude here is that 1. Dooku was referring exclusively to Force Prowess, not some pseudo-supersaiyan battle form and 2. Dooku was speaking (unsurprisingly) from his own context - a context in which Sidious had yet to reach the zenith of his power. So for those reasons I reassert my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think he's more powerful than Saba.Considering the lengthy debate I and tunewalker engaged in concerning Saba vs Revan. I'm inclined to disagree, Saba is a very powerful Jedi. I can't think of much or anything that Kenobi surpasses her in, or even begins to. But tunewalker is far more well versed than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Considering the lengthy debate I and tunewalker engaged in concerning Saba vs Revan. I'm inclined to disagree, Saba is a very powerful Jedi. I can't think of much or anything that Kenobi surpasses her in, or even begins to. But tunewalker is far more well versed than me. Someone go find a list of her abilities and I'll see whether or not I can make a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Someone go find a list of her abilities and I'll see whether or not I can make a case.Here is my comparison of Saba and Revan. And here is my comparison of Kenobi, Revan and Satele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 For all the people that think Obi-Wan wasn't that powerful I just can't help but always come back with the smackdown he laid on Anakin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) the first i believe may have just been a game mechanic Nope, it's confirmed in the KotOR CG, she unlocked and harnessed the full power of the Light Side of the Force and used this depth of knowledge to destroy the Triumvirate forces inside the Trayus Academy despite being gravely ill and all of her opponents drawing from the most powerful Dark Side Nexus in the galaxy. Satele Shan is not more powerful than the Exile, I don't see anything stating she mastered the Light Side of the Force to anywhere near the degree that the Exile did. Also discounting Battle Meditation and Sever Force off hand is incredibly biased, with Battle Meditation she helped win the Battle of Onderon and claiming it's a common Jedi ability is ludicrous, it was one of the most rare abilities the Jedi could wield. Also just because someone is innately talented in something doesn't mean that you out-right dismiss it completely, that's frankly ridiculous. Sever Force is one of the most powerful abilities the Jedi have ever used, end of. And as far as neutral powers go: Force Shield, Force Wave, Force Whirlwind, Force Bolster, Force Speed, Force Valor, advanced Echani Battle Precognition and highly advanced Moving Meditation, allowing her to meditate whilst in combat, all of these abilities were things she could take to the nth degree when she could center herself fully, unfortunately when it counted most, she was apparently unable to use these abilities effectively. Edited January 31, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Nope, it's confirmed in the KotOR CG, she unlocked and harnessed the full power of the Light Side of the Force and used this depth of knowledge to destroy the Triumvirate forces inside the Trayus Academy despite being gravely ill and all of her opponents drawing from the most powerful Dark Side Nexus in the galaxy. Satele Shan is not more powerful than the Exile, I don't see anything stating she mastered the Light Side of the Force to anywhere near the degree that the Exile did. Also discounting Battle Meditation and Sever Force off hand is incredibly biased, with Battle Meditation she helped win the Battle of Onderon and claiming it's a common Jedi ability is ludicrous, it was one of the most rare abilities the Jedi could wield. Also just because someone is innately talented in something doesn't mean that you out-right dismiss it completely, that's frankly ridiculous. Sever Force is one of the most powerful abilities the Jedi have ever used, end of. Then should we be talking about Corran Horn's usage of Tutaminis or many other Jedi's healing capabilities as they were naturally gifted in those areas but lacked in others. Also do we need to start pulling a list of jedi that werent even considered that all have the ability to use Battle Meditation. Also Unlocking and mastering the power of the Light and learning a Force power called Force Elightenment isnt the same thing. Not to mention she was uniquely not negatively affected by said Dark Nexus which i have several theories as to how that could come about but that will likely be in my series on The Force and Midichlorians as it will delve into some of this. Edited January 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Then should we be talking about Corran Horn's usage of Tutaminis or many other Jedi's healing capabilities as they were naturally gifted in those areas but lacked in others. Also do we need to start pulling a list of jedi that werent even considered that all have the ability to use Battle Meditation. Also Unlocking and mastering the power of the Light and learning a Force power called Force Elightenment isnt the same thing. I don't agree with out-right dismissing powers that a Jedi just has a natural gift for, let's go ahead and dismiss Obi-Wan Kenobi's Force Push then, he was naturally gifted in that, doesn't count then. Oh and that is exactly what Enlightenment is, it is not a Force Power, it's literally Enlightenment, the game however claims it's a power where as the CG outright states she achieved a state of enlightenment and mastered the Light Side of the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) For all the people that think Obi-Wan wasn't that powerful I just can't help but always come back with the smackdown he laid on Anakin. Obi-Wan didn't 'smackdown' Anakin at all. In fact his only saving grace was that Anakin was blind to actually think straight, if he did Obi-Wan would have been killed. Edited January 31, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Obi-Wan didn't 'smackdown' Anakin at all. In fact his only saving grace was that Anakin was blind to actually think straight, if he did Obi-Wan would have been killed. I don't know what else you'd call completely dismembering someone and then walking away as they catch fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 I've created a formal thread where we can discuss list revisions, so for now lets put this debate on hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't know what else you'd call completely dismembering someone and then walking away as they catch fire.Defeating them in battle, I should think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Not to mention she was uniquely not negatively affected by said Dark Nexus which i have several theories as to how that could come about but that will likely be in my series on The Force and Midichlorians as it will delve into some of this. Thank's for picking up the fight Rayla, but I had to point this one thing out. She's stated to have been affected horribly by that, constantly feeling as if she was about to Puke, and that the Darkness was constantly trying to corrupt and invade her mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't know what else you'd call completely dismembering someone and then walking away as they catch fire. Yeah defeating them, not smacking them down. Unless we're just mixing the meaning of 'smackdown'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Not to mention she was uniquely not negatively affected by said Dark Nexus which i have several theories as to how that could come about but that will likely be in my series on The Force and Midichlorians as it will delve into some of this. Erm you did read the Revan novel right? Not only did she feel the anguish and pain of the hundreds of thousands.that had died there, she could feel the Dark Side trying to corrupt her and it failed immensely which is incredibly impressive because and I quote: "Revan knew the immense corruption of the planet and merely walking upon it could turn the most vigilant Jedi Knight into an agent of evil." She also was suffering from the immense dark gravity that the Mass Shadow Generator had been spewing forth for a decade. Far from not effected. Edited January 31, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I don't agree with out-right dismissing powers that a Jedi just has a natural gift for, let's go ahead and dismiss Obi-Wan Kenobi's Force Push then, he was naturally gifted in that, doesn't count then. Oh and that is exactly what Enlightenment is, it is not a Force Power, it's literally Enlightenment, the game however claims it's a power where as the CG outright states she achieved a state of enlightenment and mastered the Light Side of the Force. I am fine with the statement of her being enlightened that i understand and dont call BS at all. what I was calling just a game mechanic was the force power itself which is exactly what it is, its a game mechanic it doesnt have the same affects in the "real" world of star wars. So i guess this does mean we have to discuss Corran Horn who pretty much has better feats of Tutaminis then most any jedi on this list so clearly he was extremely powerful and if we are judging by Tutaminis he would assuredly be more powerful then Revan. Finally I admitedly had not read the Revan book and didnt know it talked about Meetra being negatively affected by the Nexus. The question then becomes how sure are we that none of her opponents were negatively affected by it. Neither side showed these affects in game, but she had them in the Novel so there is no saying that the Triumvate were actually empowered by the Nexus and not also harmed by it. If they werent then they were MASSIVELY weaker then we give them credit for, because if Meetra can beat them while struggling not to up chuck from standing while they pull on a Nexus, if they werent on the Nexus they should easily be slapped down like the nothings they were if thats the case, but I dont think thats the case. Edited January 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Hello? Over here! Is anybody listening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Hello? Over here! Is anybody listening? Not really I am pretty sure we have said ya Sateele is likely over Saba the only one in debate now is Sateele over Meetra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Not really I am pretty sure we have said ya Sateele is likely over Saba the only one in debate now is Sateele over Meetra.Well if everyone can voice their opinions over there so we can be sure, then we can move on via that thread, as opposed to here, and of course if you want to suggest that, there is the proper place. EDIT: Basically lets just stop posting on this thread. Edited January 31, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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