The REAL Most Powerful Jedi

[Selenial]

It's a tough call between Jaina and Mace. I could go either way really.

 

I've just realized, while you can say that the Superweapon was responsible for most of the Devastation on Dantooine, you cannot deny that Windu and Yoda took on an entire army of droids alone during the battle of coruscant.

 

"Keep up the pressure on the right!"

"Sir, what about the left flank?"

"The Jedi have the Left"

 

Referring to Yoda and mace, if you watch the clips you clearly see them take on an army alone, mace doing it partially with his bare hands

[marcelo_sdk]

I disagree we have to look she did kill Caedus with her own power in a one on one fight we have put her above darth vader in power and I would never believe that of Windu.

 

As for the Saba vs Satele people seem to be agreeing for little to no reason given other then opinion is this going to be a vote thread now? or are we actually going to compare. I left it alone last time because I was tired of argueing but I think I see a character getting the shaft after 300+ posts of arguments that earned her what she got.

 

It was not a one on one fight. Caedus's head was all foccused on his wife and daughter, even before the fight began, Jaina perfurated his stomach. Add to that one missing arm and a cuuted Achilles tendon, I hardly call that a fair fight. And remember, even with all that, he was still a match to her. Jaina only survived cause Caedus redeemed himself during the fight, otherwise he could, at least, tie the match.

 

Everyone seems to be arguing based on her skills, since we made extensive lists about theabilites of the two. And the question is note voting, but the list is based on the forum's opinion, so it's obvious that the opinion of the majority should be taken into account. Oterwise, it's just Beni's list.

[tunewalker]

Very well lets begin first lets illustrate something.

 

 

At 4:25 you can very clearly see the Jedi master is fatigued after holding off 2 powerful sith masters. At this point is when he starts resorting to throwing large chunks of metal rather then saber fighting which was working for him just moments ago.

 

If you have read the RotS novel you know why this is. In that Novel Dooku notes that it takes more energy to block a single blow of Anakin's saber then it took to chuck obi-wan across the room and drop the scaffolding on him. With that we can see at 4:25 the reason the JK starts throwing those large chunks of metal is because at this point it takes more Force energy to fight off the fatigue and keep fighting well, then it does to chuck those large sheets of metal.

 

Compound this for Saba. She has taken a hard concussive blow to the back of her head, has had a part of the front portion of her skull sliced off and is hemoraging from it, and has by the end of the fight also taken a rock to the temple of her head (this by the way can kill some one), and then gets injected with Nero toxin and she fights all of it off and manages to kill 2 trained assassins who's physical strength, thanks to being joiners, is on par with Malgus's force enhanced strength. When you take all of that into account you have some one using so much sheer force power in the Control aspect that I would dare say its more power then Satele has shown with control and alter combined.

[Beniboybling]

OK it would seem that Galen Marek 'reembraced his Jedi heritage' so I suppose he should makes this list.

 

In accordance with the previous list he should take #3 infront of Master Fay.

 

Are we all in agreement with this?

[tunewalker]

OK it would seem that Galen Marek 'reembraced his Jedi heritage' so I suppose he should makes this list.

 

In accordance with the previous list he should take #3 infront of Master Fay.

 

Are we all in agreement with this?

 

I am not sure still honestly reembracing heritage and wanting to be a jedi is different then actually going through the trials and becoming a full fledged jedi.

[Beniboybling]

I am not sure still honestly reembracing heritage and wanting to be a jedi is different then actually going through the trials and becoming a full fledged jedi.

This is very true. He never officially completed his training. Even Skywalker wasn't a Jedi until ROTJ.

[tunewalker]

This is very true. He never officially completed his training. Even Skywalker wasn't a Jedi until ROTJ.

 

The end of it mind you as he had completed most of his trials through the rebellion but he still had the one remaining where he had to face vader and come out tempted but unscathed by the dark side..... I think I want to look up the trials to see if galen ever finished all of them.

[LadyKulvax]

After a lot of reading I would say Windu switches with Jaina, Marek comes inbetween Windu and Jaina and then we have Shan switch with Saba and Saba therefore gets bumped down to 11, in other words off the list.

[Beniboybling]

After a lot of reading I would say Windu switches with Jaina, Marek comes inbetween Windu and Jaina and then we have Shan switch with Saba and Saba therefore gets bumped down to 11, in other words off the list.

If Marek were to be placed on this list. I believe he would be above Windu. Simply put I can't see Windu being able to move an object of a Star Destroyer's magnitude. And Marek's sheer Force potential was said to be immense, likely near Chosen One levels. Though whether he is a Jedi or not is still questionable.

[tunewalker]

If Marek were to be placed on this list. I believe he would be above Windu. Simply put I can't see Windu being able to move an object of a Star Destroyer's magnitude. And Marek's sheer Force potential was said to be immense, likely near Chosen One levels. Though whether he is a Jedi or not is still questionable.

 

Ya I to think Windu is being grossly overestimated here he was strong but I don't think that strong. Also It does appear he passed all of his trials. So ya he was a jedi.

 

Finally I think I gave more then a good enough reason as to why Saba remains above Shan and possibly even re-earns her spot above Meetra a couple posts up.

[LadyKulvax]

Ya I to think Windu is being grossly overestimated here he was strong but I don't think that strong. Also It does appear he passed all of his trials. So ya he was a jedi.

 

Finally I think I gave more then a good enough reason as to why Saba remains above Shan and possibly even re-earns her spot above Meetra a couple posts up.

 

Whilst an incredible show of endurance that does not however encompass all three spheres at all.

[tunewalker]

Whilst an incredible show of endurance that does not however encompass all three spheres at all.

 

It doesn't need to We already know her senses are better and she was a master of TK capable of levitating multiple people against there will at the same time. Ultimately this is about POWER and the amount of power that would be needed to do what she did FAR exceeds anything that Shan has ever shown.

[LadyKulvax]

Shan vs Saba is not something I really have an opinion on, they both mastered their own power spheres and honestly, as I can think of others that could challenge them, I am not exactly certain whether either of them should really be on the list, but that's neither here nor there.

[tunewalker]

Shan vs Saba is not something I really have an opinion on, they both mastered their own power spheres and honestly, as I can think of others that could challenge them, I am not exactly certain whether either of them should really be on the list, but that's neither here nor there.

 

I think the point that puts saba ahead is not only did she master control, she also had better senses and her TK was still largely above average and was recognized by the NJO as being a master TK and did things that as far as I can tell were only just under Satele in that regard with both the force of her force push and the number of objects she could control. Moving screws is one thing moving actual people who are physically fighting against you is another.

 

And her Control and her Senses again obiviously vastly superior to Satele's

 

and of course as per info on the last page I offered Saba's control>Satele's alter.

Edited July 18, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

I would disagree that Saba has greater ability in Sense than Satele, lets not forget that Satele's abilities in foresight are legendary. I also feel Satele is a greater master of TK, she displays this both against Malgus and the Hex droids. Saba's aptitude for Force valor however I agree outweighs Satele's ability in tutanimis. It is a question of which should be valued more, Force valor or TK.

[tunewalker]

I would disagree that Saba has greater ability in Sense than Satele, lets not forget that Satele's abilities in foresight are legendary. I also feel Satele is a greater master of TK, she displays this both against Malgus and the Hex droids. Saba's aptitude for Force valor however I agree outweighs Satele's ability in tutanimis. It is a question of which should be valued more, Force valor or TK.

 

Well I already posted the Argument as to why Valor takes more energy then TK its on the previous page. And are we really thinking Satele has better Force Senses then Luke? I highly doubt that so no Saba wins the senses Category.

 

I mean if you want to list every one who had "legendary" senses it would be a pretty long list pretty sure I could find 10 in that category alone. The funny thing is Saba would also be on that list.... probably near the top.

Edited July 18, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Well I already posted the Argument as to why Valor takes more energy then TK its on the previous page. And are we really thinking Satele has better Force Senses then Luke? I highly doubt that so no Saba wins the senses Category.

 

I mean if you want to list every one who had "legendary" senses it would be a pretty long list pretty sure I could find 10 in that category alone. The funny thing is Saba would also be on that list.... probably near the top.

Has Luke performed foresight on the level of Satele? Not to my knowledge.

[marcelo_sdk]

Marek should be considered a Jedi. His path is very similar to Luke's. Rahm Kota was a Jedi Master as Yoda, he has the same right to declare someone is part of the Order. And, accordig to our Most Powerful Force users list, he would come as #3 here.

 

After some readings, I have no doubt that Windu surpasses Jaina. Really, none of her skills are even closer to the Windu's. Jaina always considered Windu as a template of a Jedi, so she pretty much tried to lern his skills. We can compare what both accomplished, and it's clear that Windu surpasses her. By the logic, he would take #9 on the list, throwing Vader out of the list. Perhaps this causes some comotion and people realizes and stop this "Faymania".

 

Satele clearly surpasses Saba in almost every aspect. Force Valor is the only thing that gives Saba some credit, but far from enough to be placed above Satele.

[tunewalker]

Marek should be considered a Jedi. His path is very similar to Luke's. Rahm Kota was a Jedi Master as Yoda, he has the same right to declare someone is part of the Order. And, accordig to our Most Powerful Force users list, he would come as #3 here.

 

After some readings, I have no doubt that Windu surpasses Jaina. Really, none of her skills are even closer to the Windu's. Jaina always considered Windu as a template of a Jedi, so she pretty much tried to lern his skills. We can compare what both accomplished, and it's clear that Windu surpasses her. By the logic, he would take #9 on the list, throwing Vader out of the list. Perhaps this causes some comotion and people realizes and stop this "Faymania".

 

Satele clearly surpasses Saba in almost every aspect. Force Valor is the only thing that gives Saba some credit, but far from enough to be placed above Satele.

 

No on both accounts Jaina may have copied some of his stuff but clearly surpassed him in many forms

 

Saba still has better Life Senses then Satele and I have already given Why the Valor is greater then anything Satele has ever done as well as a G-cannon example as to why Valor should be given more credit then TK so no Saba shouldn't be off the list, and we seem to be forgetting the whole reason Jaina made it at all on these lists the arguments for her were about TK, many have acknowledged or seemed to have forgotten TK is not nor ever has been the only force power or the best one to judge power by. Tk requires both the proper energy and the knowledge of how to properly apply it. It wasn't Luke's power that stopped him from lifting the x-wing out of the swamp it was his mind. Jaina may not have displayed as much power in TK as Windu, but she has shown greater feats in Force Speed, Force Melds, and Force Camo.

 

And as far as the Luke foresight thing..... he preformed high skill in foresight as a padawan as far as my knowledge goes his skill in the matter just increased so yes he has preformed foresight in that matter. More importantly Saba has shown the ability to pick up on suppressed dark siders near by better then Satele. Satele had the first child of the emperor on her council and never sensed anything wrong, while Saba could at least feel a dark presence at the funeral that shows better senses right there.

 

The difference in Saba's control is just as much Above Satele as Satele has TK above Saba's but as I have already stated Force Valor in G-cannon takes more energy then TK, as per the Dooku, Anakin fight and C-cannon as of the Return trailer. So Saba wins she stays on the list. Windu doesn't move he sticks where he is and we all live happily ever after.

Edited July 19, 2013 by tunewalker

[marcelo_sdk]

No on both accounts Jaina may have copied some of his stuff but clearly surpassed him in many forms

 

Saba still has better Life Senses then Satele and I have already given Why the Valor is greater then anything Satele has ever done as well as a G-cannon example as to why Valor should be given more credit then TK so no Saba shouldn't be off the list, and we seem to be forgetting the whole reason Jaina made it at all on these lists the arguments for her were about TK, many have acknowledged or seemed to have forgotten TK is not nor ever has been the only force power or the best one to judge power by. Tk requires both the proper energy and the knowledge of how to properly apply it. It wasn't Luke's power that stopped him from lifting the x-wing out of the swamp it was his mind. Jaina may not have displayed as much power in TK as Windu, but she has shown greater feats in Force Speed, Force Melds, and Force Camo.

 

And as far as the Luke foresight thing..... he preformed high skill in foresight as a padawan as far as my knowledge goes his skill in the matter just increased so yes he has preformed foresight in that matter. More importantly Saba has shown the ability to pick up on suppressed dark siders near by better then Satele. Satele had the first child of the emperor on her council and never sensed anything wrong, while Saba could at least feel a dark presence at the funeral that shows better senses right there.

 

The difference in Saba's control is just as much Above Satele as Satele has TK above Saba's but as I have already stated Force Valor in G-cannon takes more energy then TK, as per the Dooku, Anakin fight and C-cannon as of the Return trailer. So Saba wins she stays on the list. Windu doesn't move he sticks where he is and we all live happily ever after.

 

Ok, say in what.

 

You have a statement that it's harder to defends Anakin's blows than bringing down a balcony. First, Satele brought down a mountain, which is far more difficult. Second, Anakin's blows doesn't even slightly compare to Welk's.

 

Satele sensed the return of the Sith Empire, when they were light-years away from her. Sensing Caedus darkness is far more easy. And sensing a dark presence is far from discover of whom is such presence. Yoda knew the Dark Side was clouding the Jedi's vision, yet he didn't know the source of it.

 

Based on nothing you came to those conclusions. Saba's control are not greater than Satele, Valor doesn't take more energy than TK canonicaly, these quote was referring to a specific situation, and you will have to be happy about Windu surpassing Jaina, since it's the prevailing opinion here, and you presented nothing to refute it.

Edited July 19, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[tunewalker]

Ok, say in what.

 

You have a statement that it's harder to defends Anakin's blows than bringing down a balcony. First, Satele brought down a mountain, which is far more difficult. Second, Anakin's blows doesn't even slightly compare to Welk's.

 

Satele sensed the return of the Sith Empire, when they were light-years away from her. Sensing Caedus darkness is far more easy. And sensing a dark presence is far from discover of whom is such presence. Yoda knew the Dark Side was clouding the Jedi's vision, yet he didn't know the source of it.

 

Based on nothing you came to those conclusions. Saba's control are not greater than Satele, Valor doesn't take more energy than TK canonicaly, these quote was referring to a specific situation, and you will have to be happy about Windu surpassing Jaina, since it's the prevailing opinion here, and you presented nothing to refute it.

 

I refer you back to a post I made a page ago about how we have Satele's master show another case of Valor>TK when he chooses to throw giant sheets of metal rather then engage Malgus in saber combat.

 

And your right Welk has shown MASSIVELY more strength then Anakin does, as well as Saba taking MASSIVELY more damadge then Dooku did.

 

So again I provided 2 instances of it. One where the Force Valor Dooku used against Anakin was more then TK used to throw Obi-wan and drop a scaffolding. and another where old republic Kao Chen used less energy in TK to chuck massive metal plates then it would take Force Valor to fight off fatigue. One is G-cannon and the Other is C-cannon proving that it is not just a one case thing and proving that Force Valor being more impressive then TK is G-cannon. Even Yoda's feats in TK have been duplicated, it was his power with force Valor that makes him so powerful.

 

Also considering Joiner Welk's strength was physically stronger then Malgus.

 

Even Yoda's most impressive feats are not his TK since people have duplicated even some of his TK abilities it was his Powerful force Valor allowing him to be the Jedi Order's greatest duelist despite his diminuitive size and his advanced years.

 

Oh and the whole Sensing the empire returning..... oh yes because no one in NJO EVAR sensed a darkside user coming from far off when they weren't suppressing their signature or trying to hide themselves in the force...... she sensed them all of about 5 seconds before they warped into her sector and there were a lot of them not just one, Luke and many other have done this with both Force sensitive beings and none force sensitive beings. This is about the same ability taken to the nth degree by saba when she located the force sensitive planet.

 

Finally I have provided multiple instances when Force Valor takes more energy then TK. So if you have a G-cannon statement showing other wise I would love to see it, but until then 2 instances of it happening is more then 0.

Edited July 19, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Marek should be considered a Jedi. His path is very similar to Luke's. Rahm Kota was a Jedi Master as Yoda, he has the same right to declare someone is part of the Order. And, accordig to our Most Powerful Force users list, he would come as #3 here.

 

After some readings, I have no doubt that Windu surpasses Jaina. Really, none of her skills are even closer to the Windu's. Jaina always considered Windu as a template of a Jedi, so she pretty much tried to lern his skills. We can compare what both accomplished, and it's clear that Windu surpasses her. By the logic, he would take #9 on the list, throwing Vader out of the list. Perhaps this causes some comotion and people realizes and stop this "Faymania".

 

Satele clearly surpasses Saba in almost every aspect. Force Valor is the only thing that gives Saba some credit, but far from enough to be placed above Satele.

Vader isn't on this list.

 

And Fay isn't leaving the list until you can actual provide some evidence that her accomplishments have been matched and surpassed by another, which insofar you have failed to do.

 

Anyway is that true about Jaina looking up to Windu? If so that's very interesting. I suppose in reality I see no reason why Windu shouldn't be above Jaina. After all he probably could have soloed Caedus and one, Vaapad or not he still could have done better than Jaina. And if Windu and Jaina were ever to fight I can see Windu winning.

 

I can't say I'm sure concerning Saba and Satele. I stand by the fact that their abilities in sense are equal. We can point to Saba having greater Force sense that Luke Skywalker, but did Satele not have greater ability in foresight as well? Legendary was a word I ascribed to Satele myself because "many Jedi believed that the Grand Master could change the future simply by predicting it." Even if that isn't true, coming from a Jedi is bears significant weight. Satele's visions must have been both numerous and incredibly clear to receive such an accolade.

 

Its quite obvious that Saba has greater master over Control, given the injuries she was able to endure. However Satele does seem to possess greater ability in telekinesis. And I don't feel we can simply assume that Force valor is the greater ability. Dooku may have noted that it took more effort to throw Kenobi than block Anakin's assault (though a quote would be helpful) but we must remember that moving objects is the most basic of telekinetic abilities. Force push, whirlwind and wave are far more advanced and Satele's application of them are nothing short of remarkable.

 

As a reminder:

 

 

1. Satele unleashes a powerful Force push that rips through Malgus Force barriers and sends him flying across a considerable distance, showing a incredible display of raw power close to that of Malgus'
    
    
   
2. She manages to hold Malgus back by manipulating the air in an advanced variant of Force whirlwind, despite being a considerable distance from him, displaying her ability not only to compress air and unleash it on her foes, but control air currents themselves.
    
    
   
3. She displays a remarkable proficiency with Force wave, charging and condensing her attack before unleashing it in a concentrated, directed burst of energy. Whereas the majority of Force users, and even the more powerful ones, would only be capable of unleashing an explosion of undirected power. Like this.
    
    
   
4. Her sheer mastery over Force wave is most clearly demonstrate here, where she charges the ground with energy and unleashes a controlled detonation that kills all three Sith Lords, yet leaves Malcolm unharmed.

 

Really I must admit, I feel Satele deserves to be closer to Revan and Meetra. I also can't say I'm happy with the idea of including Marek on this list, it seems unfair to knock someone off to make room for someone who, let's face it, never officially became a Jedi. If Cade Skywalker is not being considered as a Jedi, neither should Marek.

 

Wookieepedia also does not list him as a Jedi.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

I think he meant take #9 on the force user list.

[tunewalker]

Vader isn't on this list.

 

And Fay isn't leaving the list until you can actual provide some evidence that her accomplishments have been matched and surpassed by another, which insofar you have failed to do.

 

Anyway is that true about Jaina looking up to Windu? If so that's very interesting. I suppose in reality I see no reason why Windu shouldn't be above Jaina. After all he probably could have soloed Caedus and one, Vaapad or not he still could have done better than Jaina. And if Windu and Jaina were ever to fight I can see Windu winning.

 

I can't say I'm sure concerning Saba and Satele. I stand by the fact that their abilities in sense are equal. We can point to Saba having greater Force sense that Luke Skywalker, but did Satele not have greater ability in foresight as well? Legendary was a word I ascribed to Satele myself because "many Jedi believed that the Grand Master could change the future simply by predicting it." Even if that isn't true, coming from a Jedi is bears significant weight. Satele's visions must have been both numerous and incredibly clear to receive such an accolade.

 

Its quite obvious that Saba has greater master over Control, given the injuries she was able to endure. However Satele does seem to possess greater ability in telekinesis. And I don't feel we can simply assume that Force valor is the greater ability. Dooku may have noted that it took more effort to throw Kenobi than block Anakin's assault (though a quote would be helpful) but we must remember that moving objects is the most basic of telekinetic abilities. Force push, whirlwind and wave are far more advanced and Satele's application of them are nothing short of remarkable.

 

As a reminder:

 

 

1. Satele unleashes a powerful Force push that rips through Malgus Force barriers and sends him flying across a considerable distance, showing a incredible display of raw power close to that of Malgus'
    
    
   
2. She manages to hold Malgus back by manipulating the air in an advanced variant of Force whirlwind, despite being a considerable distance from him, displaying her ability not only to compress air and unleash it on her foes, but control air currents themselves.
    
    
   
3. She displays a remarkable proficiency with Force wave, charging and condensing her attack before unleashing it in a concentrated, directed burst of energy. Whereas the majority of Force users, and even the more powerful ones, would only be capable of unleashing an explosion of undirected power. Like this.
    
    
   
4. Her sheer mastery over Force wave is most clearly demonstrate here, where she charges the ground with energy and unleashes a controlled detonation that kills all three Sith Lords, yet leaves Malcolm unharmed.

 

Really I must admit, I feel Satele deserves to be closer to Revan and Meetra. I also can't say I'm happy with the idea of including Marek on this list, it seems unfair to knock someone off to make room for someone who, let's face it, never officially became a Jedi. If Cade Skywalker is not being considered as a Jedi, neither should Marek.

 

Wookieepedia also does not list him as a Jedi.

 

If you wish me to pull out the RotS novel I will do so give me an hour I will find the quote for you about Dooku vs Anakin.

[Beniboybling]

I think he meant take #9 on the force user list.

Oh right. Well if we are considering Mace Windu to be more powerful than Jaina. Surely Vader should be more powerful too? And Jaina should be removed? Has Vader not matched and surpassed all of Windu's feats? Edited July 19, 2013 by Beniboybling