Sub canceled and wanna say goodbye to the forum!

[tman_ac]

Hey fellow players!

 

The time has come to start my goodbye topic - not entirely from the game - but goodbye to the forums as you can't write in here when you aren't subbed. I have ~10 days of sub remaining and before I forget to post, I will do it already today.

 

This is not going to be a rage topic or a general rage about the game. I've had a good time in the game, enjoyed all the class stories and spent an endless amount of time in this beautiful game.

 

However, after f2p was introduced, the past months made me feel being a subscriber is not worth it anymore. I have 9 toons at the maximum level, listened to all class stories, played PvP, completed all space missions and have achieved everything else you can in this game PvE-wise. I am here since the headstart, was constantly subscribed and spent another like 400 EUR on top for cartel coins. I really was a Fanboy unless 2.1 hit the servers.

 

The reason is simple - I just don't feel to pay for a subscription when you have to pay on top for everything else - like changing your appearance or getting rare dye modules. 2.1 really took away my desire to support the game with a subscription. I know there are many other guys around, but that's another story. BW keeps giving false promises. You remember when f2p was launched that there was mentioned that subs will get one free char-rename each month? Now it's down to a single one - and even this they can't give us. It's delayed so the guys who aren't patient will spend more money on the CM. This milking has become usual business what makes me kinda sad. Subscribers are getting a punch in the face all the time. For me it feels like they don't care about subs at all, else I can't understand how you can treat subscribers like this.

 

This game is Star Wars - so Players do care about their appearance in game. All the best looking armor you get exclusive from the CM. Before someone tells "but you can buy it from the GTN with credits", sure, you can... But someone initially has to buy the stuff. I was one of these guys. But not anymore.

 

The funny thing is, I won't have to face a lot of restrictions as a preferred player. I invested around 10 million credits on the GTN to buy unlocks which will let my game experience most likely stay on a sub level. I have bought:

 

- Hide Head slot (account-wide)

- Artifact Equipment access (account-wide)

- Guildbank access (account-wide)

- Show character title (account-wide)

- Show Legacyname and title (account-wide)

- 2x quickslots (account-wide)

- Crew Skill slot (account-wide)

- Event equipment access

- 10 GTN slots (account-wide)

- 10x 600k credits escrow

- 4x Flashpoint weekly pass

- 4x Warzone weekly pass

- 20x Operations pass (bought it some time ago when it was discounted on CM for 80cc each)

 

So, does anyone think with these unlocks I will have a worse game experience? That should show BW that the gap between preferred and sub is a joke. I can play Operations the next 20 weeks and have some passes for flashpoints once they release new ones. With the credtis escrow unlocks I can buy access to the new daily area once it will be released.

 

As I can craft loads of stuff and sell it each day, I just need to send over an Item to a toon who needs credtis. So the cap of 350k is not harming me as well.

 

In the end, I know I am only one guy. But overall I have talked to a lot of mates who started playing at the headstart and they feel the same. Some are quitting the game entirely and some are going my way: Buy unlocks from the GTN and then only log in to the weekly raid. I would have left the game as well if my raid team wouldn't be there. But I am together with them for more than 1 year now and I can't let them down.

 

If someone from BW reads this: I really hope you will value your subscribers again. If this game will offer something good again to subs, I will re-subscribe. But for now it's enough.

 

Thanks and may the force be with you!

 

Tman over and out.

Edited June 22, 2013 by tman_ac

[Avicii]

The opening is misleading you say it's not a rage post a s you want to say goodbye the you rant for 5 mins about how you are undervalued. I feel tricked and you didn't say good bye to anyone.

[tman_ac]

The opening is misleading you say it's not a rage post a s you want to say goodbye the you rant for 5 mins about how you are undervalued. I feel tricked and you didn't say good bye to anyone.

 

Oh true, forgot to say it: GOODBYE everyone!

[astrobearx]

my thoughts after reading the OP

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2SS0gZ_kKI

 

[Cleet_Xia]

Did the same thing a month ago. Went preferred yesterday.

 

only things I'm going to miss

1) 30 min CD on QT

2) holding piles of credits all the time

3) emailing credits & 8 items at a time

4) depositing credits in the guild bank

5) *EDIT* - 1 free fleet pass every 12 hours now I have to buy them from the security key vender

 

That's it.... that's all. that's what I was really paying my sub to get.

 

I don't engage in pvp, space, or ops every single week... so the weekly passes I can buy with my accumulated CC will last me quite a while.

 

Anytime now, my forum posting ability will go away, but that's no big loss either.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Cleet_Xia

[OddballEasyEight]

Did the same thing a month ago. Went preferred yesterday.

 

only things I'm going to miss

1) 30 min CD on QT

2) holding piles of credits all the time

3) emailing credits & 8 items at a time

4) depositing credits in the guild bank

5) *EDIT* - 1 free fleet pass every 12 hours now I have to buy them from the security key vender

 

That's it.... that's all. that's what I was really paying my sub to get.

 

I don't engage in pvp, space, or ops every single week... so the weekly passes I can buy with my accumulated CC will last me quite a while.

 

Anytime now, my forum posting ability will go away, but that's no big loss either.

 

Dont forget about 25-30% more XP, Rested XP and now you will have to pay more for everything you buy off vendors in-game.

Oh and some in-game rewards just flat out wont be given to you for finishing missions.

[BrianDavion]

so what exactly do they need to give subs to make you feel you're "Valued"?

[thaawn]

Dont forget about 25-30% more XP, Rested XP and now you will have to pay more for everything you buy off vendors in-game.

Oh and some in-game rewards just flat out wont be given to you for finishing missions.

 

there comes a point where one really does not need to sub.

 

I was preferred for around 5-6 months and I didn't miss it.

 

after you spend enough time grinding creds to buy all the account unlocks, what is the point? Unlimited WZ, FP, And OPS?? I make enough creds in one day of grinding dalies on my 4 Imp toons to grab all 3. . .

 

the only reason Im subbed now is because I came back after a 4 month absence and I wanted Makeb. . .

 

My sub is up is about 20 days, I won't miss it. . .

Edited June 22, 2013 by thaawn

[TheBBP]

so what exactly do they need to give subs to make you feel you're "Valued"?

 

Special snowflakes need special treatment.

 

I mean, it's not as if we are not already getting more than what we are getting for our sub before F2P.

[Cleet_Xia]

Dont forget about 25-30% more XP, Rested XP and now you will have to pay more for everything you buy off vendors in-game.

Oh and some in-game rewards just flat out wont be given to you for finishing missions.

 

I didn't forget about any of those things... I'm just not going to miss any of them.

 

1) +25%-30% exp....you mean I won't have to skip half of every planet to stay 3 levels under for my next class mission? You mean that I won't get to the wonderland of HM's & dailies that is the whole endgame quite so fast?

 

2) no rested xp... so it will be like when I leveled my first toon again?

 

3) I've got a full suite of crafters, I havn't bought anything from anyone but rep/comm venders and the GTN in over 6 months. The inventories of the game's venders have stunk since the game launched. They rarely have anything I would buy, and only one or two have been updated at all in the last 18 months.

 

4) You mean I can't pick the RNG box for an item I'll RE, and instead I must pick a BoP item that I know I'll RE or vender?....that's just awful. Seriously ~ In 18 months I got 2 good items (items that I kept) from mission reward RNG boxes.

 

*EDIT* realized I left out comm venders

Edited June 22, 2013 by Cleet_Xia

[Jeweledleah]

Special snowflakes need special treatment.

 

I mean, it's not as if we are not already getting more than what we are getting for our sub before F2P.

 

its not really about special treatment, its about having an actual reason to pay for subscription other than "I feel obligated/want to support the company".

 

its actually kinda funny. pure free to play is extremely restrictive to the point of turning some people away from the game, particularly when you are new to it. at the same time, with purchase of unlocks by someone who's been playing for a while, there's not all that much of an incentive to keep subscribing..

 

that said, I'm curious to know which quest rewards are restricted/unavailable? going preferred myself pretty soon (variety of reasons, some of them being similar to those of OP)

[TheBBP]

its not really about special treatment, its about having an actual reason to pay for subscription other than "I feel obligated/want to support the company".

 

its actually kinda funny. pure free to play is extremely restrictive to the point of turning some people away from the game, particularly when you are new to it. at the same time, with purchase of unlocks by someone who's been playing for a while, there's not all that much of an incentive to keep subscribing..

 

that said, I'm curious to know which quest rewards are restricted/unavailable? going preferred myself pretty soon (variety of reasons, some of them being similar to those of OP)

 

I have zero empathy for losing players who do not feel like they are getting enough free game out of a free game.

[Jeweledleah]

I have zero empathy for losing players who do not feel like they are getting enough free game out of a free game.

 

missing a point.. again.

 

when the game is so restrictive, that it turns people away before they had a chance to get attached and want to subscribe - that's not a good model.

sure, there are some people that do anyways, but several friends of mine, including those that used to subscribe at one point - moved on to other games in disgust.. and it sucks because I miss playing with them. personally

 

current f2p model for new players is kinda like original terms of x-box one. draconian and off putting. but only to new or casual/returning players. which is ironic.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Cleet_Xia]

---snip----

 

that said, I'm curious to know which quest rewards are restricted/unavailable? going preferred myself pretty soon (variety of reasons, some of them being similar to those of OP)

 

So far the only locked rewards I've seen have been the RNG cash & item boxes

[LordArtemis]

I really think they should have offered more to subs for 2.1. My suggestions....

 

1) 1 free appearance change session for one character (not even sure if they can do this)

2) Free name, legacy and guild change (I think at least the name is coming)

3) One single pack of choice from the packs that were being retired.

 

I think that would have created at least some good will.

[tman_ac]

so what exactly do they need to give subs to make you feel you're "Valued"?

 

Well, I agree that a subscription is a nice thing to have when you start with your legacy and you wanna level up loads of new toons. As a player of the first hours, I really see no reason why I should stay subbed. I mean, I have collected millions of credits and I only had to invest 10 million to buy all these unlocks. I don't care about less XP gain or higher vendor prices, I have everything I need and I barely buy anything from a vendor. My main toon is BiS 72 and the next thing I do is focussing on NiM modes to gain 75 gear. With the artifact equipment access unlock I have what I need to use it.

 

What I would like to have as a sub to feel valued again? Let's see...

 

- Free appearance changes

- The ability to get the dye of my desire (for example white/white) for in game credits (not talking about the ridiculous GTN prices, more likely from a vendor) or as a reward for quests

- same goes for the best looking armors: why the heck you don't make it possible to get some of them for completing quests or operations?

 

When you have leveled up all classes a sub is obsolete. Sure, you get +50% to reputation but it's not like they are spamming more of these groups where you can farm reputation for. And whenever there is a new group, I don't care if I max my reputation in 3 or 6 weeks.

 

But maybe I am expecting way to much. Players like me who are here since the start are maybe more upset about all of this than players who joined after f2p introduction. They never had to face all these false promises.

[TheNahash]

- The ability to get the dye of my desire (for example white/white) for in game credits (not talking about the ridiculous GTN prices, more likely from a vendor) or as a reward for quests

 

When White Crystals were first introduced to the game through a vendor, they cost (IIRC) 3.5mil to get one of them.

And that was back when there were no legacy weapons and therefore no way of transferring them to another character.

 

What makes you think that if they were to sell Black and White Dyes in a vendor, they wouldn't cost as much and why is 3.5mil going to a vendor better than 3.5mil (or whatever price the White dyes go for) going to another player?

 

- same goes for the best looking armors: why the heck you don't make it possible to get some of them for completing quests or operations?

 

Which ones are "the best looking armors"?

Because I'm pretty sure that everyone has their own taste and what's "good looking" or not is VERY subjective. For that to be resolved, they'd have to remove all armor from the Cartel Market. And then they'd have to sell...um... posters? And they'd be making how much profit from that, exactly? Well, we both know they wouldn't sell posters, right? They'd probably sell things that would be blatantly P2W gear but hey at least we'd be able to get the Eradicator's set for free...

 

Mind you, I like a lot of the armor sets from the cartel market and I'd love for my Synthweaver and Armormech to have some of those schematics but what difference would that make to the player who'd buy them off the GTN just like you can do with CM armor sets?

 

But maybe I am expecting way to much. Players like me who are here since the start are maybe more upset about all of this than players who joined after f2p introduction. They never had to face all these false promises.

 

In all honesty, I think you are.

All of us who have been here since launch would've liked most of the CM stuff to have been put in the game as loot or PVP rewards or crew skill schematics etc. The thing is... they wouldn't have. They would've focused on other things first and much later on anything that'd be considered a "vanity item".

 

Also, I think you're missing the point here.

You didn't buy these stuff for real money, but someone else did. And then they put them on the GTN for credits and now that they've seen they sell well, they'll buy them again for the next person who'll want to do the same thing as you. So, EA will still make their money regardless of who bought the stuff off the Market and who bought them from the GTN.

 

And all those things you just mentioned that you had to buy an unlock for are the things that subscribers get with their subscription. Along with the rest of the things that others mentioned (and the Cartel Coins). If you don't consider them enough, then yes, obviously preferred is the way to go.

Edited June 22, 2013 by TheNahash

[tman_ac]

When White Crystals were first introduced to the game through a vendor, they cost (IIRC) 3.5mil to get one of them.

And that was back when there were no legacy weapons and therefore no way of transferring them to another character.

 

What makes you think that if they were to sell Black and White Dyes in a vendor, they wouldn't cost as much and why is 3.5mil going to a vendor better than 3.5mil (or whatever price the White dyes go for) going to another player?

 

I may be mistaken, but I remember that the white crystals did cost 2.5 million. You really need an explanation why it is better if you can buy dyes directly from a vendor than buying another gambling pack for real money?!

 

Also, I think you're missing the point here.

You didn't buy these stuff for real money, but someone else did. And then they put them on the GTN for credits and now that they've seen they sell well, they'll buy them again for the next person who'll want to do the same thing as you. So, EA will still make their money regardless of who bought the stuff off the Market and who bought them from the GTN.

 

I think you are missing an important point here. Do you think all these unlocks are worth more then let's say I pay another 1 year and 7 months of subscription? You only need to buy these unlocks a single time and you can use them endless - weeks, months, years... Not even speaking that I am boycotting the CM entirely now. When I used to be a Fanboy I had no problems investing hundreds of euros on top of my subscription. So they did not only lose my sub. And tbh, the most money they make from the old time subscribers, who feel passionate about the game. If you lose them, you will not lose only the subs but another good amount of money from selling cartel coins.

 

So yeah, it's a fast penny for BW to sell unlocks. But on the long term they are losing money.

 

Personally I never thought I would come to a point where I would cancel my sub, but 2.1 has made so much damage to me. I turned around 180 degrees within 2 days...

Edited June 22, 2013 by tman_ac

[TheNahash]

I may be mistaken, but I remember that the white crystals did cost 2.5 million. You really need an explanation why it is better if you can buy dyes directly from a vendor than buying another gambling pack for real money?!

 

I'm not sure. But 2.5 or 3.5 million credits means pretty much the same thing: they were really expensive, especially back then when credits were not as easy to make as they are now.

 

Actually, I asked for an explanation as to why it's better if you buy the dyes directly from another player (who found them on a cartel pack and doesn't want them) instead of just buying them from a vendor. I never said "buy a dye pack".

 

I think you are missing an important point here. Do you think all these unlocks are worth more then let's say I pay another 1 year and 7 months of subscription? You only need to buy these unlocks a single time and you can use them endless - weeks, months, years... Not even speaking that I am boycotting the CM entirely now. When I used to be a Fanboy I had no problems investing hundreds of euros on top of my subscription. So they did not only lose my sub. And tbh, the most money they make from the old time subscribers, who feel passionate about the game. If you lose them, you will not lose only the subs but another good amount of money from selling cartel coins.

 

So yeah, it's a fast penny for BW to sell unlocks. But on the long term they are losing money.

 

It depends.

If for the next 1 year and 7 months you only plan on paying for your subscription and only using your free coins it might actually be better.

And yeah, some of the unlocks you mentioned only need to be used once but a lot of them don't. Passes for Warzones, Operations and Flashpoints, Escrow are some of them.

 

I personally do not like being limited in how many warzones I can do and then have to buy an unlock for. And then there are the rest of the (minor, but still important for convenience) limitations that I don't want to have to deal with. But, to each their own, I suppose.

 

I hope you'll have fun as a preferred player.

[Andryah]

missing a point.. again.

 

when the game is so restrictive, that it turns people away before they had a chance to get attached and want to subscribe - that's not a good model.

sure, there are some people that do anyways, but several friends of mine, including those that used to subscribe at one point - moved on to other games in disgust.. and it sucks because I miss playing with them. personally

 

current f2p model for new players is kinda like original terms of x-box one. draconian and off putting. but only to new or casual/returning players. which is ironic.

 

Your strawman attempt fails... as it is designed to push the preferred player whine (from prior players who now want full access for free), rather then look at the draw of new players into the game.

 

I see numerous posts in the forum the last few months and I see numerous comments in general chat in game (in between all the bacon smack talk) about players trying the game on free and liking it enough that they converted to subscription. I see it enough to take it as more then anecdotal. So Free appears to be working as intended...and Bioware I am sure has the analytics to monitor and adjust the Free component features of the game if they are unsatisfied with the conversion rates from free-to-sub. Whereas all you have is a few whiney and cheap friends IMO.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Andryah

[Jeweledleah]

Your strawman attempt fails... as it is designed to push the preferred player whine (from prior players who now want full access for free), rather then look at the draw of new players into the game.

 

I see numerous posts in the forum the last few months and I see numerous comments in general chat in game (in between all the bacon smack talk) about players trying the game on free and liking it enough that they converted to subscription. I see it enough to take it as more then anecdotal. So Free appears to be working as intended...and Bioware I am sure has the analytics to monitor and adjust the Free component features of the game if they are unsatisfied with the conversion rates from free-to-sub. Whereas all you have is a few whiney and cheap friends IMO.

oh hai there Adryah, resorting to ad hominem there, good, means you don't have an actual argument to make.

 

funny enough i did say that some people subscribed after trying the game in its current f2p state. but because you personally don't see people leaving the game before giving it enough of a chance (and why would you see them, they aren't the ones with posting privileges, they are no longer playing to say anything in general) - doesn't mean they are not there. doesn't mean there isn't a significant number of them. if bioware willing to dismiss them and not worry about them - its their prerogative. me, I just want to keep having fun.

 

and I'm not here to bash the game or people who have opinions about it (which you seem to delight in doing). I like the game, I'm enjoying the game for the most part. but I'd like for other people to like the game as much as I do, maybe even more. I'd like feel like those $15 dollars a month are not just money thrown in a direction of the company with no real benefit to me, over playing without subscription. I'd like new players, who don't have my legacy and my unlocks - come into the game and not throw their hands up in annoyance at all the countless "nope, can't do that but here's a buy now sign for you" it was THE reason why I stopped playing LOTRO btw. (and i technically could buy a bunch of unlocks for my friends, but at least several, were too put off to even try again)

 

you claim that its all about preferred players wanted more for free, but the thing is... I already get everything I could possibly want as (future) preferred. few unlocks here and there bought with surplus cartel coins and some in game credits and I'm good to go. THAT is the whole point. I don't really need a sub to continue enjoying the game. I'm not asking for more stuff for preferred players.

 

wouldn't it be better for the game if it retained and encouraged both new and old players? wouldn't it be better for the game to make it worth our while to keep subscribing, all the while making it more pleasant for the new players to stay, encourage more of them to subscribe, not because they are too restricted, but because the real benefits are worth it? give us all a carrot instead of a stick?

 

this is the point you seem bound to ignore and you'll probably continue to ignore. that's your prerogative, naturally. just don't presume to tell me what MY motivations are as if you know them better than I do, let alone those of my friends.

[Andryah]

oh hai there Adryah, resorting to ad hominem there, good, means you don't have an actual argument to make.

 

There was no ad hominem in my response, and my points are self-evident to anyone that reads them.

[Andryah]

wouldn't it be better for the game if it retained and encouraged both new and old players?

 

The game does in fact retain and encourage both old and new players. There are plenty of old timers here in the forum to demonstrate that and as I said earlier.. there is more then anecdotal comment in the forum and in game that new players ARE converting to subscription.

 

Just not in the manner that you and your friends desire.... based on your comments by you, on their behalf. You are entitled to your strawman position that it's inadequate. But that's all it is... a strawman.

 

In the end, "value" of the subscription is an individual decision by each player. That is really all that matters from the player context. It's either worth the price, or it's not. Bioware appears to be more then happy with the conversion rates and retention rates since November. Forum discussion about it's adequacy and success levels in the context of the health of the game is circular and without end in terms of discussion.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Andryah

[HaoZhao]

There was no ad hominem in my response, and my points are self-evident to anyone that reads them.

 

Right, right. Ad hominem isn't what we're looking for. Do we have a nice Latin term for people who fill this board with whining because they've deluded themselves into thinking that BioWare is immune to criticism? That's the term we're looking for here.

[Andryah]

Right, right. Ad hominem isn't what we're looking for. Do we have a nice Latin term for people who fill this board with whining because they've deluded themselves into thinking that BioWare is immune to criticism? That's the term we're looking for here.

 

A term is not an ad hominem in an of itself.

 

A term directed at a player in a pejorative manner to attempt to discredit the player rather then the topic is an ad hominem.

 

And opinions... are opinions. To be ad hominem... they must be pejorative in nature and directed at a person rather then then a component of the discussion (which could be a wide range of things, including unsubstantiated claims entered into the discussion as heresay, which is what I actually responded to). In addition, said target of ad hominem must be an actual party in the discussion, rather then "evidence presented" such as "friends" for example in the case above.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Andryah