Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?

[idnewton]

This thread is hilarious. Sooo many people trying to lawyer every word to justify macroing.

 

And as for those whining about the Razor. FML.

 

Go watch a car commercial which is clearly marketing for speed, buy said car, get a speeding ticket, then go visit the manufacturer's corporate HQ with your complaint. Post back here with pics pls. Bonus points for video showing more than 3 people laughing at you at once.

^This, 100%

 

No you are missing the point how can it be a cheat when no matter what you still have a global cool down on your abilities of 1.5 seconds I can sit here and hit my keys every 1.5 second or just mash them down and it does the same thing as a macro i still have to deal with the Global Cool Down that is built into the game. No matter what there is no way around the Global Cool Down of the abilities unless you are going into the game files and removing the line from it.

 

I am also sorry to say that in any business set up between business they talk and find out what a product can do before they say yes Razor u can make that product for us and put our game logo on it so BW and Lucas Arts know exactly what the hardware Razor was making for them. And if they did not know what these products can do then they should not have joined forces with Razor for it. But that cat is out of the bag so in the Long run the ToS and the RoC needs to be looked at again. For the reason no matter what a macro does or a person just massing the keys down or a person with fast fingers you still have to deal with the Global Cool Down of the abilities.

You're using an automated program to perform a rotation for you. You are physically incapable of messing up the rotation. You're having something else play the game for you. You seem overly fond of red text. How about you take five seconds and read mine:

As for macros, notice it's its own catagory. Macros. Period. End of story. If it's a macro, it's not allowed. The entire point behind macros is to allow players to perform a series of actions they would otherwise be unable to do. Rapid clicking for Hutt-ball spawn, automated space-mission completion programs, etc. Technically speaking, the only time you'd ever use a macro is to do something you can't normally do. In other words, you're utilizing an external program to gain an advantage in the game. Not allowed.

If your macros are in line with the GCD and you play without them, why are you so insistent on having them? The bottom line is this: If you're able to play the game the same with macros as without, you don't need them anyways. If you're not, you're using them to compensate for a lack of skill, to gain an advantage. Thus violating the ToS. It's that simple.

[enabe]

Use case 4

 

keycode to ability bindings (guardian class)

1 - riposte (off GCD)

2 - guardian slash

3 - strike

user presses the '1' key on his device, macro system sends keycode 1, riposte is executed

as quickly as possible (0.011 seconds later?), user presses '1' again, macros system sends keycode 2, guardian slash is not executed because it is on cooldown

as quickly as possible (0.011 seconds later?), user presses '1' again, macro system sends keycode 3, strike ability is executed (it is never on cooldown, riposte did not trigger a GCD, it requires no mana)

 

[X] allowed by ToS

[ ] prohibited by ToS

[ ] example to clear enough to give a ruling

 

This is still a macro that is allowed by ToS according to Phillip that has chimed in a couple of times it still has to go by the Global Cool downs of the game so again i stat no matter what i set a keyboard or mouse to hit the buttons it still has to go by the Global Cool Downs of the abilities if i have one button that hits seven keys it still only going to get one ability that is not on a cool down no matter what.

 

so lets get some better clarification from someone other then idnewton maybe from a DEV would be great

Edited July 2, 2013 by enabe
adding more

[enabe]

This thread is hilarious. Sooo many people trying to lawyer every word to justify macroing.

 

And as for those whining about the Razor. FML.

 

Go watch a car commercial which is clearly marketing for speed, buy said car, get a speeding ticket, then go visit the manufacturer's corporate HQ with your complaint. Post back here with pics pls. Bonus points for video showing more than 3 people laughing at you at once.

 

found this some where on the forums but it fits here so well http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6499929#post6499929

thanks falcon_Xtreme for posting it

 

Im so tired of this poor analogy. The car companies didnt give you the fine for driving fast a third party did( the law) swtor however sold and endorsed a product and its features and now swtor is trying to punish you if you using it.

[JP_Legatus]

Frankly this could all be solved by putting a "grab the huttball" ability in the game with a global cooldown on it (and make right clicking no longer grab the ball), and by putting a 20s debuff after hitting the field respec button that locks out all your abilities.

[enabe]

Frankly this could all be solved by putting a "grab the huttball" ability in the game with a global cooldown on it (and make right clicking no longer grab the ball), and by putting a 20s debuff after hitting the field respec button that locks out all your abilities.

 

why not just block out field respect and gear changes in a WZ that would even be easier

[Jherad]

found this some where on the forums but it fits here so well http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6499929#post6499929

thanks falcon_Xtreme for posting it

 

Im so tired of this poor analogy. The car companies didnt give you the fine for driving fast a third party did( the law) swtor however sold and endorsed a product and its features and now swtor is trying to punish you if you using it.

 

Hah, still lawyering.

 

Ok. As someone else posted previously (either here or somewhere else, I can't remember), how about a police raffle or a sheriff's sale (heck, even a cop with a private sale). Want to try complaining to them? Waaaaaah you sold me this car and pulled me over the very next day! I was only doing 120! Why you sell me this car if I can't use all it's features? DERP!

 

A TEEEEEENY TINY bit of common sense is all that is required. Just an ounce. Too much to ask from some people, clearly.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Jherad

[funkiestj]

Hah, still lawyering.

 

Ok. As someone else posted previously (either here or somewhere else, I can't remember), how about a police raffle or a sheriff's sale (heck, even a cop with a private sale). Want to try complaining to them? Waaaaaah you sold me this car and pulled me over the very next day! I was only doing 120! Why you sell me this car if I can't use all it's features? DERP!

 

This is where BW pisses me off the most. If they simply stuck to "all macros are verboten, you razer customers can SUCK IT" it would be much easier to understand. Instead we get things like "incoming west" macro is forbidden because UNFAIR ADVANTAGE! Heck, even the following would be less annoying:

 

BW: No macros in WZ or any combat

me: why? Give me a rational!

BW: because I said so! Don't like it? Go play <X>!

 

that would be much better than giving a terribly reasoned answer. Instead, not only do we get idiotic rationale, we get stuff like

 

BW: not all macros are forbidden in WZ

me: describe what is allowed

BW: well, any macro that, in response to a single key press IRL, sends multiple keycodes is forbidden

me: so, any macro that fits the traditional definition of a macro is forbidden.

BW: yes

me: <slaps head>

 

Here is Steve Martin in The Jerk, describing what you can win if he guesses your weight wrong. Or is he describing SWTOR acceptable macros? It is hard to tell.

 

The reason the whole macro thing is confusing to so many is that they start with the erroneous assumption that BW's position and statements on the matter are not insane. Once you correct this mistake it becomes much easier to understand.

[idnewton]

Frankly this could all be solved by putting a "grab the huttball" ability in the game with a global cooldown on it (and make right clicking no longer grab the ball), and by putting a 20s debuff after hitting the field respec button that locks out all your abilities.

 

I think the real question is, what do you define as 'all'? What's really happening in this thread? The answer is very simple. Players asked a question. They got an answer. It wasn't the answer they wanted. So they complain and stir up the argument continually on multiple threads, when the answer has already been given. Some people are even copying other's posts from the other thread in an attempt to look intelligent, but in the wrong context they don't even make sense.

 

This is pathetic. People are complaining and begging BW to allow them to use external code to play the game for them. Have fun debating the pointless debate with the trolls who don't like the answer they were given. Thread unsubscribed. I'd advise those with a brain still equipped in their head slot to do the same.

Edited July 3, 2013 by idnewton

[falcon_Xtreme]

Hah, still lawyering.

 

Ok. As someone else posted previously (either here or somewhere else, I can't remember), how about a police raffle or a sheriff's sale (heck, even a cop with a private sale). Want to try complaining to them? Waaaaaah you sold me this car and pulled me over the very next day! I was only doing 120! Why you sell me this car if I can't use all it's features? DERP!

 

A TEEEEEENY TINY bit of common sense is all that is required. Just an ounce. Too much to ask from some people, clearly.

 

Again....... Im so tired of this poor analogy. The car companies didnt give you the fine for driving fast a third party did( the law) swtor however sold and endosed a product and its features and now swtor is trying to punish you if you using it

 

You ask for common sense then exercise none.

[Jherad]

Again....... Im so tired of this poor analogy. The car companies didnt give you the fine for driving fast a third party did( the law) swtor however sold and endosed a product and its features and now swtor is trying to punish you if you using it

 

You ask for common sense then exercise none.

 

Read my post again. Carefully.

 

Ok. As someone else posted previously (either here or somewhere else, I can't remember), how about a police raffle or a sheriff's sale (heck, even a cop with a private sale). Want to try complaining to them?

 

Derp.

 

You ask for common sense then exercise none.

 

Herp Derp.

 

Just a couple of braincells required. Come on man, use them. Just because someone is selling, marketing, promoting, or even giving away something, does NOT mean they endorse the use of all 'features' of that thing in all circumstances. That would be DUMB.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Jherad

[Lortemand]

Knifer with macros.

Funny.

Good gameplay.

IWIN-button

Edited July 3, 2013 by Lortemand

[falcon_Xtreme]

Just a couple of braincells required. Come on man, use them. Just because someone is selling, marketing, promoting, or even giving away something, does NOT mean they endorse the use of all 'features' of that thing in all circumstances. That would be DUMB.

 

im going to avoid the ad homs and put it it another way

 

SWTOR team...check out our razer gear!!!!! DESCRIPTION OF GOODS and sales pitch...Reign supreme in the galaxy with star wars gaming mouse by razer..... featuring 17 buttons for effortless destruction and more skills at your disposal...the razer driver software allows easy organization and absolute freedom to remap key binds , character abilities and macros to all the buttons and keep you on top of your game... http://i42.tinypic.com/123tgs2.jpg

 

SWTOR TEAM oh yeah one more thing , rub that last part of the box out.. we dont actualy want you to use all the features of the device we just sold you.

 

They put their Trademark all over it take our money and now tell us some of the MAIN features and major selling points are unable to be used with their game.

Edited July 3, 2013 by falcon_Xtreme

[cashogy_reborn]

 

A TEEEEEENY TINY bit of common sense is all that is required. Just an ounce. Too much to ask from some people, clearly.

 

youre not gonna find much of that on these forums.

[Oddy_T]

with their game.

 

That's the important part. The features are all useable in games which allow them, which means they need to be included in every serious gaming device as people wont buy two separate ones for games that allow macros and games that don't.

[falcon_Xtreme]

That's the important part. The features are all useable in games which allow them, which means they need to be included in every serious gaming device as people wont buy two separate ones for games that allow macros and games that don't.

 

Thats a fair point , and i 99 percent agree with you. id like to point though that given the marketing and product packaging they should have put a clause to refer to TOS regarding features of the product that may or may not be available. I brought the product under the conditions of the description both on the website and the product box itself, which alludes to these features working with SWTOR, more so than breaching TOS.

 

Even the SWTOR device screen in the razer utility has the SWTOR logos name and theme and Trademarks all over it, so the interface is there, the tools are there , its official , but its not to be used? now that... is misleading.

Edited July 3, 2013 by falcon_Xtreme

[falcon_Xtreme]

 

So a number of people have asked about text macros.

 

Text Macros

Strictly speaking, text macro's are against the ToS. If its for emotes etc and isn't being used as a way to advise others of an impending attack in a Warzone (inc snow! for example), then we will turn a blind eye to an extent. If you fire off emotes too many times in quick succession of course then you will get evaluated for if you are spamming.

 

I definitely dont use them for spamming, or any of the other negative examples you mentioned, but i do use text macros; to fire off my legacy emotes, and other emotes. i really do think as long as you stay in that grey area you mention, and not trying to gain advantage over other players, or accelerate gameplay. or manipulate the environment. macros do have their place in swtor. I missed this page full of information when i saw red at all the anti-macro posts, im glad i back tracked. thanks

[yoomazir]

..

 

 

Sad truth.

Edited July 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidFR
reply

[Jherad]

im going to avoid the ad homs and put it it another way

 

SWTOR team...check out our razer gear!!!!! DESCRIPTION OF GOODS and sales pitch...Reign supreme in the galaxy with star wars gaming mouse by razer..... featuring 17 buttons for effortless destruction and more skills at your disposal...the razer driver software allows easy organization and absolute freedom to remap key binds , character abilities and macros to all the buttons and keep you on top of your game... http://i42.tinypic.com/123tgs2.jpg

 

SWTOR TEAM oh yeah one more thing , rub that last part of the box out.. we dont actualy want you to use all the features of the device we just sold you.

 

They put their Trademark all over it take our money and now tell us some of the MAIN features and major selling points are unable to be used with their game.

 

If the cap fits....

 

COP THAT JUST SOLD YOU THE CAR oh yeah one more thing. I can't believe I'm having to tell you this, as anyone with the slightest modicum of common sense would figure it out for themselves, but don't drive the car I just sold you at 120mph

Edited July 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidFR
rude

[KettleBelll]

If the cap fits....

 

COP THAT JUST SOLD YOU THE CAR oh yeah one more thing. I can't believe I'm having to tell you this, as anyone with the slightest modicum of common sense would figure it out for themselves, but don't drive the car I just sold you at 120mph

 

 

If I went to a sheriff's sale, and they told me if I buy this car they are selling:

 

- I can go 120 mph

- I can make it to everywhere I go in 1/2 the time

- Just think of all the extra things I could be doing with that free time because I got to places so fast and wasn't spending that time driving slow

 

Then yeah, people would be upset buying that car from the sheriff, then being told they can only drive 55 mph, by that same sheriff.

 

So who cares about if or if you can not use macros.

Edited July 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidFR
rude

[ParagonAX]

The point here is that the car is being sold as "NYPD" branded, advertised as being able to go 120mph, with royalties being paid to NYPD for every car sold.

 

I do not use macros nor do I plan to, I just find the Razor thing amusing, lol

 

Btw notice how BW never responded to the Razor thing after ppl brought that up? Bet you someone at BW is going "oh ****, we never thought about this, better not say anything or might get in trouble with higher ups / legal / marketing"!

Edited July 3, 2013 by ParagonAX

[KettleBelll]

...

 

 

lol. I even directly told you I don't care about the macro part. How could you have missed that?

 

 

I do think they should return the money to people that bought SWTOR Razor Nagas though. No, I don't have one, but I do understand how those people feel mislead.

Edited July 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidFR
reply

[Technohic]

lol. I even directly told you I don't care about the macro part. How could you have missed that?

 

 

I do think they should return the money to people that bought SWTOR Razor Nagas though. No, I don't have one, but I do understand how those people feel mislead.

 

Even without macros, the naga in any form is worth the money

[Jadescythe]

Even without macros, the naga in any form is worth the money

 

^This.

 

I'm sure they didn't get it cause Star Wars or Naga, it was all for the macros...

[enabe]

 

here is the reason why the stuff about the whole macro thing is a big deal. i found this part of the American Bar Association web site http://apps.americanbar.org/dch/committee.cfm?com=AT329400

 

The Consumer Protection Committee monitors and reports on developments in the law of false and deceptive advertising, unfair trade practices and illegal marketing. These developments often include cases brought by private litigants, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and state attorneys general, as well as consumer class actions, competitor suits under Section 43(a) of the Lanham Act, and decisions by the Better Business Bureau's National Advertising Division (NAD).

 

So when they promoted this things for the keyboard and mouse with stuff like the in game razer crystal. And they start suspending people that use it. It is deceptive advertising. So when they start promoting this things back in 2011 they did not say it would be against their ToS or their RoC. So this whole thing about macros needs to be drop off their ToS and their RoC or they can send out a recall letter to everyone that bought the product and refund their money.

 

I dont want this things to happen i just want people to understand that there are laws out there the protects consumer against big business.So again i ask for everyone else to stop chiming in and let a DEV chime in with GREATER CLARIFICATION on this matter because we have everyone saying different things we even have a couple of different DEVS that have chimed in and what they have said does not match up with each other.

 

Also if u look at the ToS dated sept.4 2012 i quote

- Use or distribute unauthorized "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software program or applications.

 

What are unauthorized macros and which ones are authorized?

 

And if u look at the RoC dated Nov 17 2011 i quote

Use or distribute “auto” software programs, “macro” software programs or other “cheat utility” software program or applications

 

Which rule do we follow i have always followed the one that is most up to date?

 

So there is an issue here that needs to be solved as far as macros go and the keyboard and mouse being advertised with that functions.

 

So u can give me all the car examples you want but the company that promoted the item did not give u the ticket it was the law and if the cops sold u the car and told u to drive faster then the speed limit then gave u a ticket for it they were wrong as well for doing so according to the law.

 

So Again I Say lets Get Greater CLARIFICATION on this from someone that is a DEV or Higher on this not just another player that does not like the fact he cant spend the money to get a gaming keyboard or mouse. Which i dont have either myself but would like especially if i can do the full function of it.

Edited July 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidFR
reply post

[Capt_Beers]

Oh hai Kettle. Trolling as usual?

 

Let's try to break it down in bitesized easy kindergarten chunks for you.

 

Perhaps the car is advertised as 'goes really fast'.

 

Perhaps the car is even said to be 'capable of doing 120+ mph'

 

Perhaps the car is NOT advertised as being allowed to do 120 mph on the road.

 

Perhaps the Razer is advertised as capable of creating macros.

 

Perhaps the Razer is NOT advertised as a legal way to automate gameplays function in SWTOR.

 

I get it. No really I do. You reeeeally really want to macro. So badly. I don't actually believe you're functionally retarded. But macros are not allowed, and the argument that because a peripheral was marketed as being capable of functions not all of which are allowed by the TOS it was some kind of ripoff is hilariously transparent.

 

Reading is fundamental.

 

Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also employed in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items ("switching").

 

It's not an exact match but they sold a product at a higher cost by incentivizing the features of said product and are claiming that features gained by that extra cost to the consumer are not actually allowed in the game.

 

Now for your car analogy this is as if the Sheriff sold you his Sheriff's car with government plates and the implied ability to use how you see fit, say for speeding, and then arrested you for for speeding in a government vehicle.

 

EDIT: After checking with our head of Customer Service she assured me that this is indeed bait and switch. It's her job to handle customer complaints of this nature and she informed me that for a company to advertise something like this and then deny you use of the features at best warrants a refund. Her words exactly

 

Absolutely. It's a device created and sold specifically for the game and flat out mentions programmable macros. While you can't force the game to honor it you're absolutely entitled to a refund, it's bait and switch. They sold you An item based on terms they will not honor.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Capt_Beers