Darth_Precursor Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Something I don't think has been mentioned is the good old intercede to a stealthed player tactic. Usually this would be the Assassin Tank (as far as rateds), but what about operatives? With exfiltrate, they can bypass many obstacles very quickly, especially exfiltrating from top center (over pit) to endzone, avoiding an a fire and many chances to be knocked/pulled into hazards. Also, something I've observed that seems to work well is carrying the ball on the right/left side of pit, and charging or interceding up to the lower ramp, then getting into endzone. The reason this works well is because while you approach on the side, the enemy team will almost never fire pull you. The reason? It *appears* that they are pulling you closer and that the pull would help your team score, since it *appears* you're at a disadvantage being on the ground rather than on the catwalks/ramps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniehenlau Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Something I don't think has been mentioned is the good old intercede to a stealthed player tactic. Usually this would be the Assassin Tank (as far as rateds), but what about operatives? With exfiltrate, they can bypass many obstacles very quickly, especially exfiltrating from top center (over pit) to endzone, avoiding an a fire and many chances to be knocked/pulled into hazards. . This is indeed how we usually do it. I roll ahead on my scoundrel healer, guardian jumps into pit and intercedes. If he gets pulled, he passes me, I unstealth and scamper the ball over the goal line. Proceed to win. I can usually (or rather, nearly always), get to the endzone before anyone else can from neither my team or the other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 intercede to a stealth (scoundrel or shadow) is pretty standard. Scoundrels can get there faster, shadows can set a phase walk that helps after the defending team knocks him into the pit. Shadows also have resilience (5 seconds of resistance for tanks) and tank spec. Spy vs Spy leveling says (if you want to play defense) have a stealth or a sniper looking for the enemy forward. I.e. you pick your defender's AC and spec to maximize stealth detection and minimize enemy leaping potential. Then there is the question of whether having a defender in your own endzone (lets call him a safety) is a good idea or not. Some argue that instead of playing safety you should be stopping the carrier closer to the middle. Failing that, you should control mid to win the next jump ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
player-klaus Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) sry my english is bad. did you know, you can push the enemy team players off the lower ramp? standind on the left or right side of the pit, you can jump towards the ramp and then force push. assasin/sorc it works but have not yet been successfull doing this with a merc. bad thing, you only delayed the inevitabel leap... i only want to add this to the conversation because i seem to be the only player doing this thnx for some interlectual input, go on! edit: yes i seem to have misunderstood something... but on your suggestion to take a diagonal path is not much to add. it is for sure more advanced, than the staight path. i want to add, that probably the tanksin/shadow wants to pick up the ball due to the amount of cc during the reset-phase (merc can spec to resist 2 tech or force attacks but assasin has its 5 sec's). and in order to do so, he has to be back in the middle before scoring. so the jugg needs to intercede on the very left or right, keeping the timeframe for firepull as short as possible. Edited June 15, 2013 by player-klaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymerize Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) intercede to a stealth (scoundrel or shadow) is pretty standard. Scoundrels can get there faster, shadows can set a phase walk that helps after the defending team knocks him into the pit. Shadows also have resilience (5 seconds of resistance for tanks) and tank spec. Spy vs Spy leveling says (if you want to play defense) have a stealth or a sniper looking for the enemy forward. I.e. you pick your defender's AC and spec to maximize stealth detection and minimize enemy leaping potential. Then there is the question of whether having a defender in your own endzone (lets call him a safety) is a good idea or not. Some argue that instead of playing safety you should be stopping the carrier closer to the middle. Failing that, you should control mid to win the next jump ball. I am not sure what these recent comments are talking about, the conventional intercede to someone (stealth) is assumed to be a pretty standard thing. Read through the OP and all the comments after it to this point and you will surely see that it has been mentioned in one way or another and even expanded on slightly. Funkiestj's post spells out the conventional (one step) tactic behind the intercede tactic well. Read through some of my posts and I expand on it a tad further but could expand on it much further because even Rated teams that I've watched just use the conventional one step intercede tactic instead combining much more team synergy behind it to help guarantee the score.... The original point of this thread was to advocate a different path to take when trying to take up the ball the sides of the map to the endzone. I advocate a diagonal approach for reasons that I have already mentioned. There are numerous ways to make diagonal paths by using class abilities such as intercede, sorc friendly pull, operative roll, sorc/sprint, offensive fire pulls, Huttball pass, etc. and there are multiple diagonals routes that can be taken; different elevation changes you make and what not. Reread the original posts and all posts that follow, I think you guys might have missed a thing or two. Thanks for keeping the thread alive though; haven't had time to make a video so that doesn't help things. Edited June 14, 2013 by Polymerize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yestreen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I am not sure what these recent comments are talking about, the conventional intercede to someone (stealth) is assumed to be a pretty standard thing. Read through the OP and all the comments after it to this point and you will surely see that it has been mentioned in one way or another and even expanded on slightly. Funkiestj's post spells out the conventional (one step) tactic behind the intercede tactic well. Read through some of my posts and I expand on it a tad further but could expand on it much further because even Rated teams that I've watched just use the conventional one step intercede tactic instead combining much more team synergy behind it to help guarantee the score.... The original point of this thread was to advocate a different path to take when trying to take up the ball the sides of the map to the endzone. I advocate a diagonal approach for reasons that I have already mentioned. There are numerous ways to make diagonal paths by using class abilities such as intercede, sorc friendly pull, operative roll, sorc/sprint, offensive fire pulls, Huttball pass, etc. and there are multiple diagonals routes that can be taken; different elevation changes you make and what not. Reread the original posts and all posts that follow, I think you guys might have missed a thing or two. Thanks for keeping the thread alive though; haven't had time to make a video so that doesn't help things. Sure, a diagonal route would work well. Either way, current meta game dictates that avoiding the fire pull is the most important thing, so, as already mentioned, the ball carrier must drop to the pit and walk under the ramps to avoid a fire pull. In most games we play, once the jugg tank has the ball and bad dropped to the pit, he is more or less impossible to kill. The other team gives up on killing he ball carrier and immediately moves back to mid to get ready for the ball reapawn. This may differ by server. I have seen some teams run double assassin tank who do double pulls to the fire, and that works so long as the ball carrying team does not have a counter pull ready. Since the team who claims from mid almost inevitably scores, I think is is more important to discuss getting the from mid after the ball has been scored. I would like to see a round table discussion on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) Since the team who claims from mid almost inevitably scores, I think is is more important to discuss getting the from mid after the ball has been scored. I would like to see a round table discussion on that Oh really? You mean which sniper is alive, has entrench, clicker macro and live closer to Ireland (In case of US dunno where servers are)? Edited June 14, 2013 by BambulaGTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealDUKE Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 alright poly I will bite. My ideal way of starting huttball on my shield tech is to have a sniper post up top on our side. I run straight to the ball using hydraulic overrides, immediately pass to the sniper. at this point their whole team should be on me, so I commence the debuffs taunt spam, flame sweep for the snare, oil slick, stealth scan (oilslick and scan should be used almost everytime its on CD, these tools can drastically hinder the opposing team). Because the sniper has the ball now the debuffed team will try to shamble (they cant leap or pull and he is still doing his dps) up to them. This gives your team the ability to spread out with the purpose of catching the next pass. now pass to someone down low they run forward a bit and the enemy team follows down pass back up on one of the ramps where a good player should be from there you do what you have to do to get it in. Onto general comments: Anytime 2 friendlies make it near the end zone one of them should be set up to catch the pass for the score. I am seeing more people getting in the habit of this. If you are not in the habit of it try to get there. On my PT I typically don't run the ball unless the team isn't getting it done. Instead I try to run beside the ball carrier that I am guarding and taunt/cc/flame sweep snare/oil slick. basically try to prevent as much damage to runner as possible. if we get stuck in the pit I will jet charge in and tap HO hopefully for a pass that I can run in. Even tho I am a tank I feel the I contribute more by trying to control the match instead of jump in, live a long time, and do mediocre DPS. While extricate (sorc pull) is a damn fine ability it cannot support fast runs so once you blow it you will need about 2 min to get it back up(don't know if that's the actual cool down please feel free to clarify that.) Regarding sins- if they are not in dark charge they will have to be using a really crazy spec to have pull. Most ppl are going to be running deception right now because its fairly easy spec. Note most people in deception do NOT play to their potential. I was guilty about this for a long time. If you want to learn what I mean watch polys videos or roll an operative. Tactical play style from these guys can make them the MVP with out much recognition at the end. If BH will keep stealth scan going every chance you get you will ruin a stealthers advantage. look for them in places behind a fire pit ready to catch a ball. Slows are good. keep slow on someone at all times preferably the enemy ball carrier or someone chasing your ball carrier. if you see someone running in a bee line ahead of the carrier for a pass, by all means pull/knockback out of the way. Try to put them in a trap but really just put them in the pit or make the have to travel so long they are ineffective. Don't be afraid to pass back or ground the ball if your team isn't where it "should" be. If it looks like you may need to take a pass do not stand in the middle of 3 enemies, back up. I would rather ground it than cause interception under most conditions. That was kinda long but I am on night shift and I need to get some sleep. so if there are any errors feel free to correct them. I think poly wanted to put a topic out about advanced strategy so I tried to do that but remembering that there are a lot of players who may need tips on how to play. not just get a l2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealDUKE Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 The next tactic I want to work on is organization and control, it will be very team dependant and requires voice chat. It requires 1 RDPS with a knocback (im thinking arsenal merc for this, sniper could work too), 1 shield tech, 1 healer. This is group one. Group 2 is mostly melee DPS with a tank and healer thrown in. The function of group 1 is oversight, one player of group one will have command and control of the field, most likely the PT because all he is there to do is taunt use a few ranged attacks and see what the other team is doing (ex There is a op healer free casting near the acid pit left side, mara- stop that). The Merc on group one is there to ensure everybody can get a 20% armor debuff on them and commence to burn the other player. the healer...well he heals who ever he can. Group one would preferably be in the back in a spot that provides good visibility and is strong enough to repel a fight headed their way. Unless there is a major attack on group one they should all be sticking together for the most part while they move. Group 2's main function is to fight. Let the oversight direct them to the best targets for the team and set up passes. Group 1 has to be mobile and can either control mid or run the ball for a bit if needed but it would be better to let group 2 handle that and let group 1 set up advanced tactics. This set up has to have 8 players who know their roll and practice together regularly using voice chat. It will also come with a learning curve to coordinate against various strategies and learn to over come them. After that is down there really is no reason that no matter what the other team does you should have an answer for what they try to do. I would do something similar in all the warzones with a few changes in who would have command and control most likely stealth for node based matches. That's my 2 cents on what I am trying to put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymerize Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) Awesome awesome awesome. Best replies I have gotten in a thread in... Ever really. Just wanted to pop in and say I've read them since replying to them will take a bit of time ( typing via iPhone and my response will be lengthy and elaborate ). And just a note for everyone. Whatever is discussed in this thread and others that I have made in the past and in the future; it is up to you to determine whether what is being discussed is viable in ranked or just in regulars, most of the time the logic that applies to whatever is being spoken about can be applied to both atmospheres. In the future I will try to address if a tactic/strategy is specifically for Regs or Rateds, or if it could apply to both. And I would be more than happy if someone who does play Rateds consistently could help evolve the discussion by addressing what the current strats/tactics are in Rateds, what they think about of what is being discussed, and what the next possible topic should be. (like wurdlol). Cheers, working on my responses now. Edited June 14, 2013 by Polymerize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yestreen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Oh really? You mean which sniper is alive, has entrench, clicker macro and live closer to Ireland (In case of US dunno where servers are)? A marksman sniper can directly counter the entrench. Makes them incredibly useful in huttball. You can also indirectly counter entrench by killing the sniper or ccing them before they roll+entrench. We actually tend to grab the ball with our arsenal merc + hydraulic overrides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymerize Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 A marksman sniper can directly counter the entrench. Makes them incredibly useful in huttball. You can also indirectly counter entrench by killing the sniper or ccing them before they roll+entrench. We actually tend to grab the ball with our arsenal merc + hydraulic overrides! I think this topic is big/prevalent enough to deserve its own 'round' as you mentioned. Looking forward to expanding on your team's rather effective tactic of scoring from the pit with Baddies. FYI though, I essentially just play Regulars on POT5 so what I think about is typically in terms of Regulars although I do understand how Rated matches would work because of some past experiences playing them and watching streams on Twitch. That being said I am not up to date on all of the current tactics/strats in each warzone for Rateds so ill be glad to have you in future discussions, and anyone else from your guild as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 alright poly i will bite. My ideal way of starting huttball on my shield tech is to have a sniper post up top on our side. I run straight to the ball using hydraulic overrides, immediately pass to the sniper. at this point i realized that the other team's scoundrel has beaten me to the ball ... fyp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Oh really? You mean which sniper is alive, has entrench, clicker macro and live closer to Ireland (In case of US dunno where servers are)? Is it the norm in rateds to have a gunsligner (sniper) grab the jump ball? I play rateds but not that often and have never played at a high level. I suspect the moves to grab the jump ball seen in matches between MVP, DP an Synergy are well established by now. Does anyone bring SS(MM) to rated WZ? If the other team had a sniper entrenching to grab the ball, using diversion to pop him out of cover would neutralize him. Hitting the center with a quake grenade is standard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yestreen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) Is it the norm in rateds to have a gunsligner (sniper) grab the jump ball? I play rateds but not that often and have never played at a high level. I suspect the moves to grab the jump ball seen in matches between MVP, DP an Synergy are well established by now. Does anyone bring SS(MM) to rated WZ? If the other team had a sniper entrenching to grab the ball, using diversion to pop him out of cover would neutralize him. Hitting the center with a quake grenade is standard... Actually, now that we are on he topic of grabbing the ball from mid, <Strictly Business> has a great strategy. They run 2 snipers and when the ball is reset both of them roll+entrench so that they each occupy opposite sides of the ball respawn pedestal. They both simultaneously use their knockback (since they occupy both sides their knockback covers the entire area around the pedestal, not just one side)and then one of them grabs the ball and waits for their roll to get off cool down before they leave the pedestal. They then roll away and attempt a pass. Its very coordinated, impressive to watch and works extremely well - there is probably a video of them doing it floating around somewhere. Since strictly business is so good at grabbing the ball from mid, we usually have one of our snipers respec marksman just so we can use diversion to counter the entrench. Then our dps tries to kill at least one of their snipers before we score the ball. If that fails then we must counter the entrench with knock back immunities like hydraulic overrides and force shroud. So, to answer your question, yes - we do respec marksman for diversion in huttball, but only against certain teams. Edited June 14, 2013 by Yestreen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 ... Then our dps tries to kill at least one of their snipers before we score the ball. If that fails then we must counter the entrench with knock back immunities like hydraulic overrides and force shroud. I would think force shroud is preferred over hydraulic overrides as the chance of being stunned is less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yestreen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I would think force shroud is preferred over hydraulic overrides as the chance of being stunned is less. Absolutely, but it never hurts to use both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisweaver Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hutball happens to be my favorite map on my sorc because I can win a match with at least 1 good jug and 2 guys to watch mid. The rest can be fodder for the enemy to be distracted. Since I run with go with 3 other friends I win 4/5 hutballs on average. My strategy is simple I utilize my friendly pull every minute. The first step is to get our jug the ball in the middle. Once that happens I pull him up to the edge on in front of the fire it. At this time the fire is up in front of us so I will force speed across the fire and he will intercede to me. At this point I put a bubble on him and walk to the end zone. My cool down on force speed is still up so by the time I reach the fire pit the fire is coming up. No problem though because I have force barrier. I pop force barrier for a second then release it so I can use my force speed again to reach the end zone. By this time my jug is in front of the last fire pit and can either pass my the ball or wait for the fire to stop. Once we have gotten to this point there is little that can stop us from from scoring as most of the teams are still hacking it out at mid and I can heal both us for a long time. After this the game just becomes a contest of who can control mid better. The times it doesn't work is when our dps think they can kill the ball carrier before he can pass to the stealth in the end zone and fail leaving 1 of our guys mid and 3 of their guys mid. In games where we have assassin trying to fire pull a lot I will usually let the jug intercede to me first and wait for the assassin's fire pull so I can counter it with my pull. At that point I will bubble him put a resurgence on him use my force speed to jump past the fire and into the end zone waiting for the score. I don't do rwzs so I wouldn't know how well teams react to it there but I know it rapes in regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KettleBelll Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hutball happens to be my favorite map on my sorc because I can win a match with at least 1 good jug and 2 guys to watch mid. The rest can be fodder for the enemy to be distracted. Since I run with go with 3 other friends I win 4/5 hutballs on average. My strategy is simple I utilize my friendly pull every minute. The first step is to get our jug the ball in the middle. Once that happens I pull him up to the edge on in front of the fire it. At this time the fire is up in front of us so I will force speed across the fire and he will intercede to me. At this point I put a bubble on him and walk to the end zone. My cool down on force speed is still up so by the time I reach the fire pit the fire is coming up. No problem though because I have force barrier. I pop force barrier for a second then release it so I can use my force speed again to reach the end zone. By this time my jug is in front of the last fire pit and can either pass my the ball or wait for the fire to stop. Once we have gotten to this point there is little that can stop us from from scoring as most of the teams are still hacking it out at mid and I can heal both us for a long time. After this the game just becomes a contest of who can control mid better. The times it doesn't work is when our dps think they can kill the ball carrier before he can pass to the stealth in the end zone and fail leaving 1 of our guys mid and 3 of their guys mid. In games where we have assassin trying to fire pull a lot I will usually let the jug intercede to me first and wait for the assassin's fire pull so I can counter it with my pull. At that point I will bubble him put a resurgence on him use my force speed to jump past the fire and into the end zone waiting for the score. I don't do rwzs so I wouldn't know how well teams react to it there but I know it rapes in regs. Do they not teach people about paragraphs on the GED test prep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisweaver Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Do they not teach people about paragraphs on the GED test prep? It's summer F the English rules till high school starts in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymerize Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 Please do not knock the thread off topic and degrade it further. Will be formulating a response later, had to address an additional thread prior to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymerize Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Actually, now that we are on he topic of grabbing the ball from mid, <Strictly Business> has a great strategy. They run 2 snipers and when the ball is reset both of them roll+entrench so that they each occupy opposite sides of the ball respawn pedestal. They both simultaneously use their knockback (since they occupy both sides their knockback covers the entire area around the pedestal, not just one side)and then one of them grabs the ball and waits for their roll to get off cool down before they leave the pedestal. They then roll away and attempt a pass. Its very coordinated, impressive to watch and works extremely well - there is probably a video of them doing it floating around somewhere. Since strictly business is so good at grabbing the ball from mid, we usually have one of our snipers respec marksman just so we can use diversion to counter the entrench. Then our dps tries to kill at least one of their snipers before we score the ball. If that fails then we must counter the entrench with knock back immunities like hydraulic overrides and force shroud. So, to answer your question, yes - we do respec marksman for diversion in huttball, but only against certain teams. We can surely expand on this strategy/tactic with a new Round. Round Two perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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