JP_Legatus Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) I think hybrid Deception, aka Waka 2.0 (0/31/15) can be viable in ranked. However, the damage will be lackluster compared to full Deception. Yeah, full Deception is quite viable imo. Even if it gets focused, it has the tools to escape / delay damage long enough. We should be happy. Deception is the way the class was meant to be played. Some good points here, although, I do like the stunlocks. However, I will say that if it were to be removed, then Deception itself will have to be reworked. This would change the very core mechanic of how the tree plays. If the devs were to change it, then they'd have to be prepared to do a lot of work. I agree with the general consensus here, but I will make one difference of opinion if I may. People are saying deception is OP and brainless, and in regs for the most part I agree this is true. In ranked play however, I think the spec is lackluster at best. It may be feasible to run one dps deception sin simply due to the sins ability to respec in huttball and in voidstar. However, in terms of raw dps for rated play it isn't as good as numerous other specs. The reason? You'll never drop combat in rated outside of force cloak. You will be hit by some kind of aoe or aoe taunt or aoe slow regardless of whether you kill the target you attack in your opener or not. This means you'll never get your renewed recklessness charges, and without that we are still the same 2.0 PTS deception build that had the lowest dps of all the classes (You can see the dps comparison thread on the PTS forums, if you go back far enough). That talent is the only difference from now and PTS. There are simply other classes out there that do better dps, from better range and have similar utility. A sniper, for example, does the same dps from 35m and can entrench in huttball, or on node caps to force the stealther to attack, and their roll allows them to move almost as fast as a sin to begin with. I'm frankly disappointed bioware created a spec that overperforms in regs and underperforms in rateds. It's going to lead to a nerf of the spec that already wasn't performing up to other dps standards (smash, sniper, etc) in rateds. Edited June 9, 2013 by JP_Legatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) I agree with the general consensus here, but I will make one difference of opinion if I may. People are saying deception is OP and brainless, and in regs for the most part I agree this is true. In ranked play however, I think the spec is lackluster at best. It may be feasible to run one dps deception sin simply due to the sins ability to respec in huttball and in voidstar. About rateds I generally hear: "We take max 1 shadow and he HAS to be tank spec". And good peace for infiltration. Balance is welcome with a "LOLWUT?" Infiltration is super against bad geared, stationary PUGs. For the rest, there are vastly superior classes / specs that don't even need to go melee range and are not paper squishy. Edited June 9, 2013 by Vaerah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleOst Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 We're returning, yes, and most likely xfering to one of the more renowned PvP servers. Hey, Nice vid...the music aaalmost made me turn it off, but I'm just fussy. I'll give two reasons why you should consider [pot5], If you transfer: - We have the best sins/shadows in the galaxy. - I want to crush you with my jug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankorSSGS Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I've got to agree with the general consensus here. Deception is stupidly powerful against bad teams, but much less so against good ones. I believe that good Assassins/Shadows can definitely compete as main fight DPS, I've done it, I've seen others do it, but it takes a lot more work than the usual smashers and snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 Well, Deception isn't T1. Snipers, Sorc DPS - yeah that's undoubtedly T1 DPS. Smashers are more or less the same as they've always been. Yeah, we have to do more work than them, yet in terms of depth - Deception is honestly an easy spec with an 'okay' reward. There's really nothing that particularly special or unique about it. On par with smasher if played right, though you have to work your little heart out for such a result. Honestly, I like the playstyle of Madness. I just wish it was more durable and well, more effective. If it played more like a Watchman Sent, then we'd be talking some progress here. I made a post here concerning PvP class performance tiers here: http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t53965942/pvp-class-tiers-21/ Feel free to chirp in on your own opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manlysnowball Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 You don't always need to open with it. When you get in a pinch you can combat stealth and then use it. That is what I used to do with deception pre 2.0 and it kind of sticks. I just now worked this out for myself, lol. Good vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP_Legatus Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Well, Deception isn't T1. Snipers, Sorc DPS - yeah that's undoubtedly T1 DPS. Smashers are more or less the same as they've always been. Yeah, we have to do more work than them, yet in terms of depth - Deception is honestly an easy spec with an 'okay' reward. There's really nothing that particularly special or unique about it. On par with smasher if played right, though you have to work your little heart out for such a result. Honestly, I like the playstyle of Madness. I just wish it was more durable and well, more effective. If it played more like a Watchman Sent, then we'd be talking some progress here. I made a post here concerning PvP class performance tiers here: http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t53965942/pvp-class-tiers-21/ Feel free to chirp in on your own opinions. I would love to see madness become viable but I have no faith in bioware to implement this. I think the bigger issue is that our DOT SPEC is putting out half the health in damage that heal over time heals do in healing. If a dot spec is going to be pressure-based it needs to actually pressure someone. Aside from that problem in a spec that has already had it's dot damage buffed to make up for the loss of duplicity and unearthed knowledge, it has poor force regen and is just a boring spec to play. If bioware is ever going to fix this spec they pretty much need to rework it entirely and lets face it... there is nothing in this game's history that proves this will ever happen. What we have to look forward to is pubsters crying until deception gets nerfed, nobody in ranked ever saying its fine because they never encounter the spec, and madness continuing to be a bad spec because it does good fluff damage that never kills anyone on the metrics. Sad to see this kind of stuff happen to the class I've stuck by since release, but I do have a marauder and a jugg at 55, and I'll soon have a sniper, operative, and sorc.... if I don't unsub first because our ranked teams are moving servers which will cost me 200$. I do wish I had gotten the opportunity to play with/vs you and cycao, it would've been lulzy good times. But I believe cycao said hes also letting his sub run out, and it'd still cost me 200$ to go pot5, which is east coast. All in all, the last few months have been pretty depressing for swtor. Edited June 10, 2013 by JP_Legatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I would love to see madness become viable but I have no faith in bioware to implement this We are talking about the same company and publisher that are responsible for the groundbreaking, earth shattering and still stinking Warhammer Online fiasco. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doson Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Warning: Deception Assassin in the right hands can completely eradicate their foes. Your safety is not guaranteed. SPEC [Deception/Infiltration] http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Assassin#2000320-12120221220320112032223-3 Xinika Productions Nice Vid! Told you this is is the spec to go for. Would be cool if you could add more footage on how to play in and around the middle clash next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MystbladeWA Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Nice Vid! Told you this is is the spec to go for. Would be cool if you could add more footage on how to play in and around the middle clash next time. Good vid as always. I think this is a good point too. Given there is very little to be gained in dissecting the spec and its play style why not look at other things. I know i am always willing and interested to learn how other pvpers approach certain situations, as the example above. I know its fluid and depends on pug/premade etc but there would be plenty of people here, who hold your skill and nous in high esteem (myself included), who would see value in those types of vids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 Good ideas, thanks for the tips. I'll try in the next video, although, I've already done something similar in this video: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envyyyyyyy Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Don't listen to those complaining. There isn't enough Toast for their Jelly. I loved the video, and enjoy watching another person do some dirty work, in a spec/class I enjoy playing. I play on POT5 my Shadow is Vital. This class yes may seem to be very easy as in just stun and kill, but take on a 1v2 or a 1v3 and this is when it really shines. Being able to vanish and sap 1, spinning kick one, low slash the other get the kill, force stun again finish the kill, and then 1v1 the last guy for a 1v3 ..... so much fun, and yes it's very doable with a warzone medpack/adrenal using your black out, resilience etc.. I've done this even against good PVPers, not in rateds of course, but still you get my point. Please continue to make more videos! Also Transfer to the POT5, Pub/Imp side are both fun, i have multiple 55s in full pvp gear on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckingeyes Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Don't listen to those complaining. There isn't enough Toast for their Jelly. I loved the video, and enjoy watching another person do some dirty work, in a spec/class I enjoy playing. I play on POT5 my Shadow is Vital. This class yes may seem to be very easy as in just stun and kill, but take on a 1v2 or a 1v3 and this is when it really shines. Being able to vanish and sap 1, spinning kick one, low slash the other get the kill, force stun again finish the kill, and then 1v1 the last guy for a 1v3 ..... so much fun, and yes it's very doable with a warzone medpack/adrenal using your black out, resilience etc.. I've done this even against good PVPers, not in rateds of course, but still you get my point. Please continue to make more videos! Also Transfer to the POT5, Pub/Imp side are both fun, i have multiple 55s in full pvp gear on both sides. I thought Bastion was better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I personally always enjoy your vids. You have an elegant playstyle is the best way i can describe it. An elegant playstyle, for a more civilized age. There may be assassins/shadows that are equally good or better, but few can pull off what you can and make it look so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Warning: Deception Assassin in the right hands can completely eradicate their foes. Your safety is not guaranteed. SPEC [Deception/Infiltration] http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Assassin#2000320-12120221220320112032223-3 Xinika Productions Welcome back. Too bad I don't play my Shadow/Sin anymore. heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 You have an elegant playstyle is the best way i can describe it. An elegant playstyle, for a more civilized age. You're the first one to actually pin point my playstyle. Nice eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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