Luke Skywalker vs Paul Atreides( The Kwisatz Haderach )

[mefit]

Luke Skywalker End of RotJ / Pre-EU

vs

Paul Atreides the Kwisatz Haderach / End of Dune 1984 version

Battle Field:

Empty Field , Flat Ground , no plants or animals

(This is not a fight of Surviving a landscape)

 

Weapons:

Luke's Lightsaber

Paul's Knife

Powers:

Well if you have not seen Dune or StarWars .............please move on .

 

This fight would never happen being both are heros and would have no issues with another . So we will simulate that both are wanting to kill the other for no good reason and 1 has to die .

 

Book versions are not allowed . I am using the 1984 version because it was my favorite and it is in many ways different than the book and the later Remade Movie . Maybe because Sting was so awesome in that movie !

 

[nateslice]

Interesting comparison. Luke's father is nicknamed Annie, and Paul's father is named Leto. Both girls' names! Coincidence?

[mefit]

Interesting comparison. Luke's father is nicknamed Annie, and Paul's father is named Leto. Both girls' names! Coincidence?

 

Did not think of that , very funny ^^

[Trimaxion]

Luke.

 

Pauls prescience would be useless since his life would be in danger, as such all he has are excellent reflexes and bene gesserit fighting techniques against the force enhanced ones of luke and all his other powers.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Trimaxion

[Lodril]

Does Paul get a shield? That makes all the difference.

Also if it's Paul from the movies, who can shout and make people's internal organs rupture, it could get kind of rough. Not only that, his reflexes are enhanced through thousands of years of breeding and Cymek engineering. It's not a Jedi's short-term prescience, perhaps, but it could well mean that thought would translate into movement faster, which could make all the difference. It could be a very close fight.

 

Really though, I'd think Paul would be squared off with Vader, and Luke against Leto II. It's a less entertaining challenge though, since Leto II would spell an unpleasant and unavoidable end for the last of the Jedi.

[XantosCledwin]

god... If this is Luke Skywalker at the end of Return of the Jedi vs. Paul Atreides at the end of the first Dune book (I am assuming that is the Dune book you are referring to because there is no "End of Dune" novel). Then I am going to have to come down hard on this fight being severely one sided in favor of Paul Atreides. Even if we are using only movie versions of each, Paul Atreides would easily win this at the end of the original movies.

 

Luke.

 

Pauls prescience would be useless since his life would be in danger, as such all he has are excellent reflexes and bene gesserit fighting techniques against the force enhanced ones of luke and all his other powers.

 

yeah... uh... NO! Luke as of the end of the Return of the Jedi presents almost no enhanced fighting capabilities. Heck all he really does at the end of Return of the Jedi is swing his lightsaber around as if it were an ordinary sword.

 

Paul on the other hand, given that the OP specifically stated that the fight would happen on an empty field, with flat ground, would already have an advantage given that such terrain is what he is used to fighting on every day of his adult life. (well adding sand dunes to that, but point still stands).

 

Add in the fact that Paul Atreides has spent his entire life learning military tactics, and Luke only started learning how to fight, maybe 5 or 6 years prior to the day the fight would occur, Paul has an advantage when it comes to outright tactical information. Now add in his benegeserit training, seriously when comparing the Voice with Force Persuasion, the Voice wins every time. The Voice is not limited to just affecting those who are of weak mind, the voice affects everyone who isn't immune equally. Luke would not be immune.

 

Now toss in Paul's actual combat training via the Fremen Warriors, and he not only has a Knife, but a Blaster as well. And unlike the Star Wars Blasters, I don't think a Lightsaber is going to deflect amplified direct sonic blasts. I mean a lightsaber didn't have much effect on the sonic weaponry employed by the Geonosians now did it?

 

As for actual hand to hand combat. Luke shows very little proficiency in hand to hand combat. Of course the movie version of him only demonstrates a very limited amount of actual combat skill because the props they were using at the time for lightsabers were extremely flimsy. Paul Atreides on the other hand demonstrates extensive combat skills. He even in later renditions is capable of moving faster than the observer can track (I can't remember if he was able to do this in the original Dune or not, but he was able to in the redone version).

 

Basically, Luke doesn't stand a chance. Especially if Paul can get behind him.... oh yeah and Paul has a personal shield generator that protects him from things that are moving really fast, which kind of defines a lightsaber blade.

 

Really though, I'd think Paul would be squared off with Vader, and Luke against Leto II. It's a less entertaining challenge though, since Leto II would spell an unpleasant and unavoidable end for the last of the Jedi.

 

Is this Leto II before or after he turns himself into a Giant Sandworm? Either way I don't really like anyones chances against the God Emperor of Dune.... I mean it took the True Maudib to defeat him didn't it? I am not even sure End Game Superman would be a match for Leto II in God form...

Edited June 6, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[AlexDougherty]

god... If this is Luke Skywalker at the end of Return of the Jedi vs. Paul Atreides at the end of the first Dune book (I am assuming that is the Dune book you are referring to because there is no "End of Dune" novel). Then I am going to have to come down hard on this fight being severely one sided in favor of Paul Atreides. Even if we are using only movie versions of each, Paul Atreides would easily win this at the end of the original movies.

 

It's the movies, not the books, just the movies. To be precise the end of the movies, which raises an interesting point, if it's a few weeks after the movies, Luke would be close to colapsing (Palpatine's Lightning had some nasty side effects [at least according to the books, not quite just the movies but I'm raising the point anyway])

[XantosCledwin]

It's the movies, not the books, just the movies. To be precise the end of the movies, which raises an interesting point, if it's a few weeks after the movies, Luke would be close to colapsing (Palpatine's Lightning had some nasty side effects [at least according to the books, not quite just the movies but I'm raising the point anyway])

 

As I said, using just the movies, Luke displayed no extraordinary speed or fighting reflexes whatsoever. Maudib however most certainly did. Not to mention that Paul Atreides was being groomed to be the military leader of an entire planet since the time he could hold a knife. Luke only discovered he was a Jedi a few years ago and both of his mentors died before they could really teach him anything more than the basics. Which doesn't say very much for Anakin Skywalker given that Luke was a match for him at their first battle...

 

Hell, that doesn't say very much for the entire Rebel Alliance seeing as how Vader was terrorizing them up until then, and Luke, an untrained Novice was able to give Vader a run for his money...

Edited June 6, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[Trimaxion]

To be fair I did forget quite how useless Luke was in the movie (having read ther RotJ book more recently which portrays him in a bit better light) but Theres no guarantee the voice would work on Luke given the differing evolution of the two universes and Paul doesn't get a blaster as per the OP, just a knife.

 

But yeah, at the end of RotJ Lukes pretty screwed and beaten up, maybe it should be just before the final fight in each.

[XantosCledwin]

To be fair I did forget quite how useless Luke was in the movie (having read ther RotJ book more recently which portrays him in a bit better light) but Theres no guarantee the voice would work on Luke given the differing evolution of the two universes and Paul doesn't get a blaster as per the OP, just a knife.

 

But yeah, at the end of RotJ Lukes pretty screwed and beaten up, maybe it should be just before the final fight in each.

 

Its not a blaster... Paul can scream at amplified super sonic decibels. Think Black Canary here. His Scream is strong enough to shatter stone. And actually in Paul's case it wouldn't have mattered whether it was just before or just after the final fight. Paul so thoroughly curb stomped his opponent that he didn't even break a sweat.

 

Although Leto Atreides II did his father one up, and laid siege to an entire fort of armed Elite Soldiers solo and won...

Edited June 6, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[Trimaxion]

Just a thought but shield generator + lightsaber blade....

 

Nuclear scale explosion?

[XantosCledwin]

Just a thought but shield generator + lightsaber blade....

 

Nuclear scale explosion?

 

Well if it hasn't happened in Star Wars the Old Republic yet, then I don't think its going to happen...

[Trimaxion]

Different type of shield in SW,

 

I was under the impression it was their specific type of shield (one that can be passed through slowly which don't exist in star wars?) vs certainly any laser, possibly a lightsaber.

 

Might render the result a draw pretty quickly.

[Wolfninjajedi]

This is kinda(not gonna say it), can we just stick with Star Wars related things here?...Its rather fruitless to try and argue two things from different universes to see what would happen.

[TalonVII]

Umm first off are we using the Paul Atredies from the Dune movie, or the actual books?

 

Cause that weirding way from the movie, was HORRIDLY done. Watch the 2003 series from syfy. WAY better and it kept to the books.

 

Anyhoo it would be an INTERESTING fight. Paul would be able to counteract Luke's force abilities just because of presentience.

 

But in the end, the lightsaber would just be a too much of an edge over paul's crysnife.

Edited June 6, 2013 by TalonVII

[XantosCledwin]

Umm first off are we using the Paul Atredies from the Dune movie, or the actual books?

 

Cause that weirding way from the movie, was HORRIDLY done. Watch the 2003 series from syfy. WAY better and it kept to the books.

 

Anyhoo it would be an INTERESTING fight. Paul would be able to counteract Luke's force abilities just because of presentience.

 

But in the end, the lightsaber would just be a too much of an edge over paul's crysnife.

 

that is assuming of course that the lightsaber could as Paul once said "Find his blood"

[Airmo]

When I was skimming through the thread names and saw this at first I read it as "Luke Skywalker vs Paul Revere" and was like "wut?" lol An interesting match-up to be sure.

[XantosCledwin]

When I was skimming through the thread names and saw this at first I read it as "Luke Skywalker vs Paul Revere" and was like "wut?" lol An interesting match-up to be sure.

 

Paul Revere would be running for the hills shouting "The Jedi are coming, THE JEDI ARE COMING" before Luke even knew what happened XD

[TalonVII]

that is assuming of course that the lightsaber could as Paul once said "Find his blood"

 

True but i think for the most part the Werding Way and Paul's presentience would counteract luke's mastery of the force so it would come down to force of arms. And the lightsaber would give Luke a major reach advantage. Plus both are two of the best duelists alive in their respective universes.

 

In the end, I think the superior reach of the lightsaber would win out against the crysknife.

 

Now if it some how ended up both disarmed and fighting hand to hand, luke would get his butt handed to him on a silver platter.

[XantosCledwin]

True but i think for the most part the Werding Way and Paul's presentience would counteract luke's mastery of the force so it would come down to force of arms. And the lightsaber would give Luke a major reach advantage. Plus both are two of the best duelists alive in their respective universes.

 

In the end, I think the superior reach of the lightsaber would win out against the crysknife.

 

Now if it some how ended up both disarmed and fighting hand to hand, luke would get his butt handed to him on a silver platter.

 

Er... that really depends, Ashoka Tano may actually be alive in the New Republic Era. We don't really know what happened to her after the events of the Clone Wars TV Series. If she is, I think she automatically qualifies as the best duelist alive at the end of the Return of the Jedi period. Afterall she was trained by some of the best Jedi the Order had ever seen (just because she was Anakin's Padawan doesn't mean she didn't have other teachers). And she has faught and survived some of the universes most ruthless killers.

 

And Paul Atreides is only the best duelist in his universe if we go by the events of the very very first Dune Novel (in this case the movie doesn't work). Fact is that both Alia and Leto Atreides II the Younger managed to exceed Paul Atreides in combat capabilities at the end of Children of Dune. And if you go according to the Expanded Dune, it was a Duncan Idaho Ghola who ultimately became the "Ultimate Kwisatz Haderach." So that Duncan Idaho Ghola would likely have the best combat reflexes of them all. Afterall said Ghola happened to have sufficient combat capabilities to disable the Dune Universes equivalent to Assassin Droids, which from my understanding are significantly more qualified for the term Assassin Droid than the ones in Star Wars...

Edited June 7, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[TalonVII]

Er... that really depends, Ashoka Tano may actually be alive in the New Republic Era. We don't really know what happened to her after the events of the Clone Wars TV Series. If she is, I think she automatically qualifies as the best duelist alive at the end of the Return of the Jedi period. Afterall she was trained by some of the best Jedi the Order had ever seen (just because she was Anakin's Padawan doesn't mean she didn't have other teachers). And she has faught and survived some of the universes most ruthless killers.

 

And Paul Atreides is only the best duelist in his universe if we go by the events of the very very first Dune Novel (in this case the movie doesn't work). Fact is that both Alia and Leto Atreides II the Younger managed to exceed Paul Atreides in combat capabilities at the end of Children of Dune. And if you go according to the Expanded Dune, it was a Duncan Idaho Ghola who ultimately became the "Ultimate Kwisatz Haderach." So that Duncan Idaho Ghola would likely have the best combat reflexes of them all. Afterall said Ghola happened to have sufficient combat capabilities to disable the Dune Universes equivalent to Assassin Droids, which from my understanding are significantly more qualified for the term Assassin Droid than the ones in Star Wars...

 

Oh I know, I've read every book in the Dune universe except the newest ones like Winds of Dune about Lady Jessica.

 

At the time of defeating Feyd, Paul was the best around. By the time of the very last book with Duncan, well lets just say he put Paul to shame.

 

Again it would be an interesting fight between Paul and Luke.

[XantosCledwin]

Oh I know, I've read every book in the Dune universe except the newest ones like Winds of Dune about Lady Jessica.

 

At the time of defeating Feyd, Paul was the best around. By the time of the very last book with Duncan, well lets just say he put Paul to shame.

 

Again it would be an interesting fight between Paul and Luke.

 

Yeah, and like you said, the fight would be far more fair if we banned weapons entirely or gave Luke a Crysknife instead of his Lightsaber. At least then the fight would involve their actual combat skills and not just their supernatural abilities or superior technology.

 

But if it did come right down to a fight between a Lightsaber Wielding Jedi and Paul Atreides, we could just have Paul activate his personal shield and issue the warning "You use that thing we both die" and appeal to Luke's sense of self preservation. Because unlike Luke, Paul Atreides is willing to lay everything on the table in order to win, even his own life. Even when people are rushing forward to put their lives in the way of him dying.

 

Plus... let's be perfectly blunt. If this fight ever did happen... Paul Atreides would only agree to it if it were following the forms associated with Kanly Personal Combat (same forms used in his duel with Feyd). And I might be mistaken, but I think Laser tech is banned in Kanly Personal Combat.

Edited June 7, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[Fyurii]

Its not a blaster... Paul can scream at amplified super sonic decibels. Think Black Canary here. His Scream is strong enough to shatter stone./QUOTE]

 

His shout never shattered stone. Using a wierding module, he did.

He shattered/ruptured Feyd Rautha's body with only his voice, years after demonstrating the capabilities of a wierding module to the Fremen. From shattering stone, setting things on fire, and causing people to simply explode.

 

That was the whole point of the final part with Feyd's body. "Usul no longer needs the wierding module".

Going by the movies alone, that's all he could do. Rupture a body, combined with his prescience.

 

Not only that, his reflexes are enhanced through thousands of years of breeding and Cymek engineering.

 

Movie versions only. No retroactive creation of a super engineered bloodline, or telepathic/telekinetic forebears to the Bene Gesserit

 

As far as the books go though, the "immortality treatment" Agamemnon gave to Vorian resulted in nothing more than the seed of what would go on to become Paul Atreides. After a little over ten thousand years of the Bene Gesserit's breeding programme.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Fyurii

[TalonVII]

Its not a blaster... Paul can scream at amplified super sonic decibels. Think Black Canary here. His Scream is strong enough to shatter stone./QUOTE]

 

His shout never shattered stone. Using a wierding module, he did.

He shattered/ruptured Feyd Rautha's body with only his voice, years after demonstrating the capabilities of a wierding module to the Fremen. From shattering stone, setting things on fire, and causing people to simply explode.

 

That was the whole point of the final part with Feyd's body. "Usul no longer needs the wierding module".

Going by the movies alone, that's all he could do. Rupture a body, combined with his prescience.

 

 

 

Movie versions only. No retroactive creation of a super engineered bloodline, or telepathic/telekinetic forebears to the Bene Gesserit

 

As far as the books go though, the "immortality treatment" Agamemnon gave to Vorian resulted in nothing more than the seed of what would go on to become Paul Atreides. After a little over ten thousand years of the Bene Gesserit's breeding programme.

 

Here's the thing, you can't go by the 1984 Dune. The wierding way doesn't work like that. If you want to see an accurate portrayal of the wierding way, watch the 2003 Syfy remake. The wierding way could make you move faster for short periods of time and it was a hand to hand fighting style.

 

Sorry the "shouting" weirding way, that was a Hollywood take on that.

[Fyurii]

 

Here's the thing, you can't go by the 1984 Dune. The wierding way doesn't work like that. If you want to see an accurate portrayal of the wierding way, watch the 2003 Syfy remake. The wierding way could make you move faster for short periods of time and it was a hand to hand fighting style.

 

Sorry the "shouting" weirding way, that was a Hollywood take on that.

 

I know that.

I wouldn't have referenced the more recent Butlerian Jihad series if I didn't know the Dune books.

As far as going by the books goes (including Star Wars ones featuring Luke before RoTJ), Paul couldn't win. Even with the prana bindu exercises taught by his mother, and the combat training of two of the best fighters in the known universe of their time, Paul would be outmatched.

Liet II with his sandtrout bio-power armour would wipe the floor with Luke, and Miles Teg (after the awakening of his Atreides genes) would do it even faster.

 

As far as this thread goes, it is just about the movies, and not the books or the mini-series. In all honesty though, the wierding modules aside, I thought the film was still a good adaptation.