hulcalan Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I remember you protesting heals being included but no agreement. I also remember being pretty amused at the time since you were annihilation and getting a bunch of bonus kills from your group heals. I'm curious as to what people think.. because well it's the same school of logic as the if I died less I worked harder to get my dps... where as say if he had less heals would he has earned less kills in lieu of? discuss and I'll make a ruling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) I remember you protesting heals being included but no agreement. I also remember being pretty amused at the time since you were annihilation and getting a bunch of bonus kills from your group heals. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one. I would go back into the old records thread but you and your comrades went and got it deleted. The way it was handled before was full heals couldn't apply to the total kills, but off healers could which would be distinguishable through the leader boards themselves. I admitted that the only reason I got the top kill count was because of my group heals. Nothing shocking there. But Im primarily dps, off healing is something that some dps do to survive or have no choice (ie annihilation). If you have a player who is clearly a main healer who through some shots in here or there, yet comes out with 61 kills that is in no way legitimate and for you to suggest that is, and accuse my off heals of being the same is amusing at best. I'll tell you like I told valya, try harder champ. I'm curious as to what people think.. because well it's the same school of logic as the if I died less I worked harder to get my dps... where as say if he had less heals would he has earned less kills in lieu of? discuss and I'll make a ruling Not necessarily. You're comparing it to people with equal dps but one with more deaths? The one with most clearly worked harder given the deaths and the amount of down time between spawns. Healing is completely different. If you're healing someone who kills a player, you get credit for that kill. This applies to everyone in the warzone that is affected by the healer. If it was off heals it would be a different thing. My spec for example can only heal the group every 30 seconds, and that's if I chose to which is rare since my passive crit is already pushing 50%. Regardless healing someone every 30s for about 6 seconds, or someone throwing off heals to keep someone alive isn't the same as constant healing by a dedicated healer. Edited June 17, 2013 by PoliteAssasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulcalan Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well my thoughts are just to either take the number for how it is regardless of how it's earned or simply take it out ^_^ . I'm a big fan of letting the game decide these things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooMzy Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) I'm curious as to what people think.. because well it's the same school of logic as the if I died less I worked harder to get my dps... where as say if he had less heals would he has earned less kills in lieu of? discuss and I'll make a ruling Personally, I think there are only two distinct methods of gaining high kill numbers, which is either by hitting another person or healing the guy that's hitting them. Depending on the DPS, I think it's much harder for some people to gain high kill numbers while healers actually have the biggest advantage over every class. The only other specs that can compete with them for numbers is the AOE DPS spec players (smashbombers, etc.) in the right WZ (Voidstar, possibly Novare) since their attacks hit a wider range of players grouped together than single target DPS, and even then, it will be much harder for AOE DPS players to gain kill numbers than a healer simply because a healer gets credit for a kill regardless of range/proximity simply by adding in a single heal to the person burning another. It was strictly designed to prevent players from gaining solo kill stats with someone pocket healing them in the fight, and honestly, I think you'd be giving a certain place on the leaderboard to the healers only if you were to allow them to post for spots on the kills section. In that category, I think they would be untouchable in terms of numbers there simply because of how easy it is for them to get kill numbers in comparison to the rest of the different specs. My two cents Edited June 17, 2013 by ZooMzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossmanster Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I would recommend just mechanically recording the numbers that come off the screen shots. Any other sort of interpretation will lead to controversy. We all know the stats recorded here are mostly meaningless. "# of Kills" is at best "# of kills contributed to through some arbitrary game mechanic". If you start splitting this out between healers and DPS (and what are you going to do about hybrids?) you might want to start making up stats like "Most damage done by a class that doesn't have Smash" and "Most killing blows not done via Takedown". The stats I would love to see are breakdowns by spec. I would also love to see stats about CC. But we can't get those, so I wouldn't sweat trying to interpret the ones we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbrad Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Personally I dont even bother with the number of kills for healer mains. I know on my sorc the only number I care about is the healing done. Although it would be nice if the bubble counted towards protection. But then sorc healers could top kills, healing and protection in the same match Back in pre 1.2 days I remember getting 80+ kills multiple times on my Sniper but in those days the gear difference was huge. Nowadays if you get 40+ kills as a DPS you are doing very well, hell if you get to 20+ kills with 2 competent healers on the other team you should be awarded a fluffy bunny trophy or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetMegan Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I would recommend just mechanically recording the numbers that come off the screen shots. Any other sort of interpretation will lead to controversy. We all know the stats recorded here are mostly meaningless. "# of Kills" is at best "# of kills contributed to through some arbitrary game mechanic". If you start splitting this out between healers and DPS (and what are you going to do about hybrids?) you might want to start making up stats like "Most damage done by a class that doesn't have Smash" and "Most killing blows not done via Takedown". The stats I would love to see are breakdowns by spec. I would also love to see stats about CC. But we can't get those, so I wouldn't sweat trying to interpret the ones we can. I .. totally agree with everything that was said here. it's a listed game mechanic, no need to get fancy or add more restrictions or try to interpret the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devinia-Hex Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Kills don't really mean anything you tap someone and they die you get credit you heal someone for 1 point of health they kill someone you get credit. I toss out a bubble on someone they kill people I get credit. Normally I will look at biggest hit/heal, most damage/healing/protection and most medals/objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gynarchy Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Name: Roisinn Screenshot Link: http://imgur.com/CTga1Qx Record Broken : HPS #2 Value (Ex: 1532.52 DPS): 2006.33 Type of Match (Ranked or Unranked): Unranked Edited to add: It looks as though my highest single heal makes it too, for the time being. Name: Roisinn Screenshot Link: http://imgur.com/CTga1Qx Record Broken : Highest Healing in a Single Hit #3 Value (Ex: 1532.52 DPS): 8005 Type of Match (Ranked or Unranked): Unranked Edited June 17, 2013 by Gynarchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskwach Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Name: Itoa Link: Screenshot Record Broken: Protection in a single life #2 Value: 447569 Unranked Don't look at my key bindings. They're crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Lol gotta love all the healers who want to act as if its normal. If you want to count it, then there should be a separate category for healer kills, just as there should be a category for off healing dps classes/specs like madness/darkness sins, anni marauders, juggs, etc. Otherwise healers will dominate kills through artificial means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaniAkavir Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) If you have a player who is clearly a main healer who through some shots in here or there, yet comes out with 61 kills that is in no way legitimate Well, Neo, it's rather unfair to assume that I was the one "who threw some shots in here or there". Notice the bridge on Voidstar? I honestly got a couple of kills there alone. With Hold the Line and Concussion Charge (both less than 30second cd), noone can stop me from knocking anyone off the bridge, unless they have knockback immunities. To me, objectives > some stats on the leaderboard. If I was, like you assumed, just running around farming kills with my heals, I wouldn't have gotten 900k heals and 150k damage done in the first place. Megan and Elvendra were getting heavily focused by the enemy team, or I wouldn't be able to perform as such if I were the one being focused. A lot of factors here and there, but I generally agree with this: I would recommend just mechanically recording the numbers that come off the screen shots. Any other sort of interpretation will lead to controversy. We all know the stats recorded here are mostly meaningless. "# of Kills" is at best "# of kills contributed to through some arbitrary game mechanic". If you start splitting this out between healers and DPS (and what are you going to do about hybrids?) you might want to start making up stats like "Most damage done by a class that doesn't have Smash" and "Most killing blows not done via Takedown". The stats I would love to see are breakdowns by spec. I would also love to see stats about CC. But we can't get those, so I wouldn't sweat trying to interpret the ones we can. My post was obsolete without the date, though I do appreciate people's different perspectives, minus the negative assumptions. Edited June 17, 2013 by LaniAkavir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well, Neo, it's rather unfair to assume that I was the one "who threw some shots in here or there". Notice the bridge on Voidstar? I honestly got a couple of kills there alone. With Hold the Line and Concussion Charge (both less than 30second cd), noone can stop me from knocking anyone off the bridge, unless they have knockback immunities. To me, objectives > some stats on the leaderboard. If I was, like you assumed, just running around farming kills with my heals, I wouldn't have gotten 900k heals and 150k damage done in the first place. Megan and Elvendra were getting heavily focused by the enemy team, or I wouldn't be able to perform as such if I were the one being focused. A lot of factors here and there, but I generally agree with this: My post was obsolete without the date, though I do appreciate people's different perspectives, minus the negative assumptions. I never said you were running around with the intention of farming kills. Stop trying to play the victim Kenji. Your kills are a direct result of the heals you put out, you're healing everyone in the ops group and by that you gain the executions that they do. This is not a legitimate way of achieving kills, when the ones doing the work are the DPS, you're simply healing them. The only reason its even like this is because healers whined about not getting medals. Knocking people off of a bridge doesn't contribute to your kill count any more than a fire pit in huttball (which is zero). And to say you don't care about numbers on a scoreboard is laughable considering you just posted the record claiming most kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooMzy Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Kills don't really mean anything you tap someone and they die you get credit you heal someone for 1 point of health they kill someone you get credit. I toss out a bubble on someone they kill people I get credit. Normally I will look at biggest hit/heal, most damage/healing/protection and most medals/objectives. Actually, it's not even "they die, you get credit". I've gotten my 10 kill medal off of soloing a guy to roughly 20% before, so the way they count kills in the game system is also kind of screwy. And again, it's up to you guys, but it's really easy for a healer to rack up the kill count. The mechanics of the game do give credit to healers in kills, to undoubtedly make sure they don't miss out on kill medals and also preventing people from gaining solo kills with a pocket healer. So in all fairness, they do have a huge advantage in that leaderboard section. But I guess the same argument can then be made for other sections of the leaderboards, simply because there are some specs that are naturally going to control a section on the boards over others (All three DPS overall records are held by Smashbombers lol for obvious reasons, hybrids natural dominating the medal count numbers, etc.). Maybe to give people a better chance to compete and actually look towards posting a worthwhile record, perhaps we can split these leaderboards up a little more based on advanced class? It would actually give some of us reasons to post screen caps of awesome games we have that are mediocre in comparison to some of the other stats these specs can pump out. EDIT: Oh, and I'd like to post a record for Most Protection in a Single Life (Unranked) Value: 277186 http://i44.tinypic.com/2nk4eh3.jpg Edited June 17, 2013 by ZooMzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbrad Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I agree with Zoomzy it may be better to split up the leaderboards by advanced class as then Neo's issue with "off-off" healing with his toon can be counted. It will also give other people incentive to post their records. As it stands now us mere mortals have no chance of competing due to what class we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaniAkavir Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) I never said you were running around with the intention of farming kills. Stop trying to play the victim Kenji. Your kills are a direct result of the heals you put out, you're healing everyone in the ops group and by that you gain the executions that they do. This is not a legitimate way of achieving kills, when the ones doing the work are the DPS, you're simply healing them. The only reason its even like this is because healers whined about not getting medals. Knocking people off of a bridge doesn't contribute to your kill count any more than a fire pit in huttball (which is zero). And to say you don't care about numbers on a scoreboard is laughable considering you just posted the record claiming most kills. Truth is, I don't care about the numbers on the leaderboard, the fact that you think I do is what baffles me. I simply noticed that there was no records of highest kill count claims, and posted an obsolete screenshot. Now, regarding the argument about classes spec'd in heals getting the kill counts, I actually agree with your point of view, it is well put. Though in the end, it is still up to OP to decide whether or not to use any values on the leaderboard or have the "Kill counts" restricted to DPS and Tanks, only. Look past your negative assumptions towards others and get on topic, Neo, save all the unnecessary comments towards me in simple pm, others don't have to suffer what I'm suffering from you. Edited June 17, 2013 by LaniAkavir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberduh Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Regardless healing someone every 30s for about 6 seconds, or someone throwing off heals to keep someone alive isn't the same as constant healing by a dedicated healer. I hadn't thought about it like that. Approximately 20% of the time annihilation maras are getting heals on 7 players at once. That probably accounts for between one third and half of the spec's kills in a typical match, depending on how effective the rest of the dps is. Edited June 18, 2013 by Syberduh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooMzy Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I hadn't thought about it like that. Approximately 20% of the time annihilation maras are getting heals on 7 players at once. That probably accounts for between one third and half of the spec's kills in a typical match, depending on how effective the rest of the dps is. Which is why the Most Kills section will be dominated by healers, and Anni Marauders have a chance to compete with them if the WZ is just amazing for building numbers lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulcalan Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Which is why the Most Kills section will be dominated by healers, and Anni Marauders have a chance to compete with them if the WZ is just amazing for building numbers lol IDK, I rarely have a healer above me in kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooMzy Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) IDK, I rarely have a healer above me in kills. Lol, well what matches do you play in? Probably 9/10 matches I'm in, the healer has the most kills out of anyone in the WZ xD EDIT: Check out that screenie of that Voidstar I posted a little bit ago. Top kills was that healer who hit 1.4 mill, then Lemu with 1.2, then you with a solid third place Edited June 18, 2013 by ZooMzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBalla Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 IDK, I rarely have a healer above me in kills. Thinking you actually get kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiax Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 ok I will add them ... BUT STARTING TODAY I WILL ACCEPT NONE I believe I should also be #2 for overall DPS in unranked, as I my numbers were in before this post. Did you end up deciding against what you stated here? -Sanitize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulcalan Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 I believe I should also be #2 for overall DPS in unranked, as I my numbers were in before this post. Did you end up deciding against what you stated here? -Sanitize fixed Thinking you actually get kills. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiax Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 fixed Many thanks <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Truth is, I don't care about the numbers on the leaderboard, the fact that you think I do is what baffles me. I simply noticed that there was no records of highest kill count claims, and posted an obsolete screenshot. Now, regarding the argument about classes spec'd in heals getting the kill counts, I actually agree with your point of view, it is well put. Though in the end, it is still up to OP to decide whether or not to use any values on the leaderboard or have the "Kill counts" restricted to DPS and Tanks, only. Look past your negative assumptions towards others and get on topic, Neo, save all the unnecessary comments towards me in simple pm, others don't have to suffer what I'm suffering from you. Your statements show otherwise. And again, quit playing the victim Kenji. I hadn't thought about it like that. Approximately 20% of the time annihilation maras are getting heals on 7 players at once. That probably accounts for between one third and half of the spec's kills in a typical match, depending on how effective the rest of the dps is. Which is why the Most Kills section will be dominated by healers, and Anni Marauders have a chance to compete with them if the WZ is just amazing for building numbers lol Anni maras aren't the only ones, Rage will be close as well, especially in voidstars. Edited June 18, 2013 by PoliteAssasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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