stealth, sap, seethe

[HexDecimalUK]

This has been bugging me for a long time, it happens in WZs, Duels, World encounters and to me its very questionable. I can understand an op being able to CC and heal himself, of course because its a healer class. But is it really fair for a stealth that has tank skills at his disposal to stop combat and heal anytime a fight isn't going his way? call me juvenile but if a tank can heal him self while im trapped in CC, after whirlwind/low slash/electrocute. then isn't it only fair that i should get stealth? child logic but you see my point, its annoying. SINs made there choice to not be a healer why should they get that ability when it suits them?

 

Pls don't go screaming BK at me if there is a trade off im missing do tell, i am actually hoping for a discussion and not all and out declaring it to be broken or OP, yet :/

Edited June 4, 2013 by HexDecimalUK

[Astarica]

I just hit seethe the moment someone vanish. Most of the time I end up recovering more health than they do.

[HexDecimalUK]

I just hit seethe the moment someone vanish. Most of the time I end up recovering more health than they do.

 

Im interested to know how you can seethe yourself while sapped,

[KettleBelll]

I always felt that 'stealth, sab, seathe' is pretty wonk.

 

 

Not sure why it is in that game in that manner. I think it's silly. However, it's been like that forever, and it's never going to change (like speeder bikes causing you to lose Focus target).

 

 

Acceptance here is the only sane path (sadly). What you posted about OP isn't going change.

Edited June 4, 2013 by KettleBelll

[Astarica]

Im interested to know how you can seethe yourself while sapped,

 

Because a WZ enviornment isn't a 1on1 duel. First they likely have to move out of their immediate position (because you should immediately AE at their last known position). Then they also have to think about is it possible to manuever into a sap & cap situation instead of sap & seethe since sap & cap is always preferable. Then they have to check the surroundings to ensure no reinforcements are coming (if so they won't win anyway). After you go through all these factors it's usually enough time for you to gain back a significant portion of your health, and this in turn will discourage the stealther from sapping you and seethe at that point, because he lost his health advantage, provided of course you're not standing in a position where he can sap & cap, though if you are he's not going to sap & seethe anyway.

 

If you're talking about a strictly 1on1 duel, sure of course they can always sap you immediately because you're the only possible opponent.

[foxmob]

I always felt that 'stealth, sab, seathe' is pretty wonk.

 

 

Not sure why it is in that game in that manner. I think it's silly. However, it's been like that forever, and it's never going to change (like speeder bikes causing you to lose Focus target).

 

 

Acceptance here is the only sane path (sadly). What you posted about OP isn't going change.

 

^this.

 

in a WZ, I have no problem with it. in a duel, I think it's just funny cuz the entire premiss of a duel is 1v1. you're "in combat" until the duel is over. as far as I'm concerned, it's tantamount to running so far away that the duel is reset. but again, that's just me. in a WZ...well...combat stealth is supposed to break combat. you aren't supposed to be in combat all the time. that's my rationale. again, not that it matters. it is what it is. BW isn't going to change it. at least they took away the instant lift.

[HexDecimalUK]

Because a WZ enviornment isn't a 1on1 duel. First they likely have to move out of their immediate position (because you should immediately AE at their last known position). Then they also have to think about is it possible to manuever into a sap & cap situation instead of sap & seethe since sap & cap is always preferable. Then they have to check the surroundings to ensure no reinforcements are coming (if so they won't win anyway). After you go through all these factors it's usually enough time for you to gain back a significant portion of your health, and this in turn will discourage the stealther from sapping you and seethe at that point, because he lost his health advantage, provided of course you're not standing in a position where he can sap & cap, though if you are he's not going to sap & seethe anyway.

 

If you're talking about a strictly 1on1 duel, sure of course they can always sap you immediately because you're the only possible opponent.

 

low slash, sap, seethe, get own re reinforcements, win. ive seen it many times, and countless others where i have found one in my EZ in hut ball for example and only i could take him out, almost winning the fight but oh no, the little combo and they are full health to demolish me before going into regular steath and inevitably catch the ball, between objectives, while defending and attacking nodes they can heal before killing me if they are going to loose.

 

As for duels i don't consider it a win for a sin to do this to me, i put it down to cowardly abuse of an unavoidable loop hole. but in OPVP encounters that's when it gets frustrating, they can focus my companion faster than i can kill them, combo and GG.

 

PS why should it not be fixed? acceptance of this to me is excepting that MMOs suck, would it be so hard to simply place a debuff on vanishing from PVP combat that prevents out of combat abilities? simple! even Ops cant do it then and shall have to use their energy to cast heals like the rest of us healers.

Edited June 4, 2013 by HexDecimalUK

[JP_Legatus]

How about you just don't break the electrocute then when you see the guy seething you break and attack. Or you can taunt when he goes stealth if you are fast enough. If you're a sorc or PT you can bubble or rocket, respectively.

/thread

Edited June 4, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[HexDecimalUK]

How about you just don't break the electrocute then when you see the guy seething you break and attack. Or you can taunt when he goes stealth if you are fast enough. If you're a sorc or PT you can bubble or rocket, respectively.

/thread

 

 

your kidding right? assuming you take the initial low slash if you don't trinket (or vice verser) the following stun the sin is not going to need to vanish and sap you. and vanish and sap is 2 global cooldowns, do you really think you're going to interrupt that? /this unbelievable reply

Edited June 4, 2013 by HexDecimalUK

[cycao]

Eh I don't have an issue with this. I myself have never used it but then again I play a dot spec so usually cant even if I wanted to and I only think this has happened to me once in a warzone and a handful of times in a duel.

 

I take it as a complement since I play a weak spec to begin with but most dueling tourneys will not allow this and like I said I don't see it to often in warzones and if you are solo defending help should have arrived by the time they get that far.

[JP_Legatus]

your kidding right? assuming you take the initial low slash if you don't trinket (or vice verser) the following stun the sin is not going to need to vanish and sap you. and vanish and sap is 2 global cooldowns, do you really think you're going to interrupt that? /this unbelievable reply

 

Yes deception does good burst on the opener. If you can't survive it, you won't win the duel regardless of whether you break it or not. Use your defensive cooldowns after the spike and eat the stunlock, and stunlock him back and get some distance. There are a lot of classes that can survive this opener and still win the duel.

Try playing a jugg in immortal spec then tell me it's broken.

Edited June 4, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[RankorSSGS]

This technique is controversial, and IMO any players doing an actual duel should agree on the rules beforehand. Same category as using medpacks and grenades in duels. In a warzone however, you should ALWAYS be expecting your opponents to do any and everything they can to win. It's no different than a sorc using barrier, or a sniper using cover. The class is given the ability to do this, so they'll do it. Telling stealthers to not sap heal in a warzone is the same as telling any other class not to use any other ability, it's not going to happen.

[KettleBelll]

How about you just don't break the electrocute then when you see the guy seething you break and attack. Or you can taunt when he goes stealth if you are fast enough. If you're a sorc or PT you can bubble or rocket, respectively.

/thread

 

This reply caused me to lose just a little more faith in mankind.

[JP_Legatus]

This reply caused me to lose just a little more faith in mankind.

 

You've been ************ about sins for over a year so your reply doesn't surprise me at all.

If you take damage after low slash it means the stun is broken, which means you have a chance to knockback or stun him back. Same for spike: the stun lasts 2s and if I attack you, the global won't finish before you can do something to me before the next stun. L2p issue quite frankly.

Edited June 4, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[manlysnowball]

In or out of a wz you only real counter for this is saving your CC breaker for it, which isn't fun as it then mean he gets all of the LS to seethe too. But if you can identify the players that do it consistantly then you might be able to.

 

Also Operative/Scouns do this even better, try the sap, orbital, stealth, HS combo. Its amusing.

 

Tho it is rough.

[Neoforcer]

Im interested to know how you can seethe yourself while sapped,

 

He can't they gets cc like you and healed on just like every one else. Good tactic It how the class works they will not change it since in combat stealth break all combat and will continue do so. Best thing to do if you don't like it is do not go dueling a sin. In Wz call out inc and get team mates to respond best thing you can do.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Neoforcer

[KettleBelll]

You've been ************ about sins for over a year so your reply doesn't surprise me at all.

If you take damage after low slash it means the stun is broken, which means you have a chance to knockback or stun him back. Same for spike: the stun lasts 2s and if I attack you, the global won't finish before you can do something to me before the next stun. L2p issue quite frankly.

 

 

Pretty sure you are confused here. I'll some it up

 

I have an Assassin

- I'm great at it

- I have, on occasion, used 'stealth, sap' heal' tactic

- On a personal level, I think it's distasteful, and I don't like it. I wish it would be changed

 

compared to...

 

Darth Plaje, you have an Assassin

- You are as talented as every other 14 year old that plays the class

- You love to 'stealth, cap, heal' tactic because it sometimes actually let's you win a 1v1

- On a personal level, you hope to all heaven they never change it, and lash out at anyone that points out this exploit, because Oh God No if they take this tactic away from you, you'll rarely ever win a 1v1 ever again.

 

 

Also, your name is

 

Darth

Plaje

 

lolz,

Edited June 4, 2013 by KettleBelll

[JP_Legatus]

Pretty sure you are confused here. I'll some it up

 

I have an Assassin

- I'm great at it

- I have, on occasion, used 'stealth, sap' heal' tactic

- On a personal level, I think it's distasteful, and I don't like it. I wish it would be changed

 

compared to...

 

Darth Plaje, you have an Assassin

- You are as talented as every other 14 year old that plays the class

- You love to 'stealth, cap, heal' tactic because it sometimes actually let's you win a 1v1

- On a personal level, you hope to all heaven they never change it, and lash out at anyone that points out this exploit, because Oh God No if they take this tactic away from you, you'll rarely ever win a 1v1 ever again.

 

 

Also, your name is

 

Darth

Plaje

 

lolz,

 

LOL I think I made someone angry

But seriously, you ran out of facts and logic because they all support me so you resort to personal attacks. This is how it actually works:

 

Spike - attack (chance to knockback, stun, snare, cooldown, or move)

Low slash - attack (chance to knockback, stun, snare, cooldown, or move)

Electrocute - 2 globals where you get hit

Stealth - (chance to aoe, move, or seethe)

Sap seethed - (chance to use breaker and prevent it)

 

Complaining about this is the same as complaining because you died in a fire trap in huttball. You had a way to prevent it, you didn't use it, and now you're dead. Compare this to jugg who gets 2 4s stuns, a 4s mezz, a push (same effect as spike), and 8% self healing every 20s. Compare it to operative who can do same thing. Compare to sorc who can ww/heal or simply barrier the sap. Being a sin you yourself have a chance to try to predict and shroud electrocute. Quit whining and l2p.

Edited June 4, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[KettleBelll]

The only fact here is your avid defense of a questionable tactic for your own benefit.

[Xertasian]

I have a sin full Conqueor..the sap and seethe goes with the class..long as you not hacking or cheating then its ll good..all you people saying break this or save cc breaker for this stun..in deception spec which I run I have 4 cc's at my disposal..

 

if you don't break my cc's I will kill you before you get me down low enough to sap and seethe..1vs 1 sins are a tough class to kill versus any other class besides vengeance juggs and other sins..from my experience the cc you would want to break is electroute..if you spec in to nerve wrecking that's 6% damage from all sources..you pop recklessness my discharges when crit hits for 7-8k then my shock hits for 6k if I get the chain proc that's 3k on top..not counting if I get surging charge procs in between..

 

basically fighting a sin 1vs 1..he gonna get his sap and seethe off if needed..you wont stop him to much utility for the class..the out of stealth combat is the one that he gonna mind sap you and heal up..others words it's damn if u do and damn if u don't..

[Helig]

This has been bugging me for a long time, it happens in WZs, Duels, World encounters and to me its very questionable. I can understand an op being able to CC and heal himself, of course because its a healer class. But is it really fair for a stealth that has tank skills at his disposal to stop combat and heal anytime a fight isn't going his way? call me juvenile but if a tank can heal him self while im trapped in CC, after whirlwind/low slash/electrocute. then isn't it only fair that i should get stealth? child logic but you see my point, its annoying. SINs made there choice to not be a healer why should they get that ability when it suits them?

 

Pls don't go screaming BK at me if there is a trade off im missing do tell, i am actually hoping for a discussion and not all and out declaring it to be broken or OP, yet :/

If he has low slash, then he's not a tank.

 

 

But I otherwise agree. Bugs me as well. I essentially have to plan a fight with two consequent Assassins instead of just one. I fight this by playing aggressive in the first phase - defensive cooldowns, spike him as much as I can to force shroud+vanish sooner than he plans to.

 

Really now, recovery should be activatable under CC as long as you aren't in combat, or should act as passive OOC CC effect, similar to what in-combat long-term CC (WW/Disable Droid/Concussive, etc.) has on mobs.

[Torcatoth]

I have a sin I play it as my main and I think this is the most ridicuous thread I have have ever read, sorry to the poster.

First of all all of you have been whinning about sins since i play this game, there are incountable threads about how OP we are and about, well almost everything. So let me teach you a coulple of things.

We are a class wich uses the most basic armor, the light armor, wich makes us die quicker.

We have since 2.0 the worst sprint of the game, since marauders can go up, down left right as long as there is an enemy there, juggs as long as friend or foe, operatives unlimited roll, 120m. Abnd if you give me phase walk speech i ROTFLOL because it's a defensive manuver more than a closing gap.

You were talking about tanks well jugg is imortal, heals himself has a go away knockback jumps stun a multiple target stun slows that never end.

Sorcs can buble and heal, bounty hunters have a sprint that last longer, so the amount of distance they cover is bigger, and snipers have a roll and you can spec to run after cover.

You all whine about assasin because we are adaptable and even before this 1.0 nerf you whinned about sins when any operative easly killed you on stunlock, snipers now even have a abbility to stealh detection as so any bh.

We give in comparasion of any other class less damage see parsers you will be surprised....

So stop whinning about sins you can't have anything to say they sufered one of the most enraging nerfs I have ever seen, the worst new abbility, and on top of that don't do anywhere near the damage every other class does, hello rage marauder.

Stop embarasing youselves.

[Helig]

I have a sin I play it as my main and I think this is the most ridicuous thread I have have ever read, sorry to the poster.<........>

Stop embarasing youselves.

You are not helping your cause.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Helig

[Torcatoth]

You are not helping your cause.

I know but this gets me completly enraged, sorry all for the hard words

[Luckeyduckey]

AoE taunt them. Then laugh in their face while you have full resolve and 12k ravage them.