Solo-Only Toggle for Warzone PVP.

[otherworlder]

you can never have a "balanced" match as long as there is something like expertise on gear.

 

If you want a balanced fight you should campaign to remove expertise and have bolster make everything equal for everyone.

 

I completely agree. I much prefer the middle bracket where (as long as everyone wears nothing but pve gear with 0 expertise) the system puts people more or less on an even footing.

 

I want to win because I outplayed my opponent, individually or as a team, not because I have a shotgun and my opponent has boxing gloves.

 

My point wasn't related to gear, however. If soloers / small teams (2 people) only play other soloers and small teams, the ODDS of stumbling onto a more balanced match are much, much higher than when the above has a fair chance of being matched against large, coordinated teams.

 

To this day, no pro-pugstomper or pro-premader has been able to explain why they feel we should be forced to play against them and how having our own queue will somehow negatively impact their play experience. Thus, the only conclusion one can come to is that they simply do not WANT to play against other premades, and their enjoyment is derived from a system that provides fun to half the players in a match at the expense of the other half.

[otherworlder]

I should also note that, for me, a solo-only queue would be bittersweet. I probably wouldn't be able to use it that often, as I usually team with my wife when we pvp. But I recognize that tons of solo pvpers want solo-only, and that solo-only queueing would be tons easier to implement than a system that allows solo AND teams of 2.

 

Unlike most of the premaders arguing in other threads, I'm okay with that sacrifice as the majority of casual pvpers would be happier for it.

[BuzzingFridge]

If you don't like losing to pre-mades, make your own pre-made and win. It's pretty simple, really.

[otherworlder]

If you don't like losing to pre-mades, make your own pre-made and win. It's pretty simple, really.

 

Most here, including myself, have stated over and over that we don't form premades for many reasons, among them:

 

1.) We don't enjoy curbstomping uncoordinated pug teams any more than we enjoy being stomped. Unbalanced matches are not fun. If there were a queue where casual premades could face other casual premades, I'd do what you suggest in a heartbeat. Most premades wouldn't.

 

2.) Many solo puggers are casual pvpers and simply don't have the time to devote into making a decent team, pulling everyone into voice chat, practicing with them, etc.

 

3.) Many do not enjoy the culture and attitude that invariably pervades premade teams after a few matches. Bad sportsmanship, griefing, etc

 

4.) PvP =/= premades. No solo pugger should be forced to play against organized teams if he doesn't want to, any more than a casual premade should be forced into the ranked queue against their will.

[BuzzingFridge]

You don't have to get on voice-chat or regularly queue with the same people. You don't even need a group of 8. Just get three other decent solo players to queue with you and your problem of getting roflstomped every game is solved. You'll still lose every time, but that's what you get for refusing to improve your skills.

[otherworlder]

You don't have to get on voice-chat or regularly queue with the same people. You don't even need a group of 8. Just get three other decent solo players to queue with you and your problem of getting roflstomped every game is solved. You'll still lose every time, but that's what you get for refusing to improve your skills.

 

Did you... read what I posted, at all? If so, please do so again. You clearly missed the point entirely. I don't subscribe to "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." I've done premades before; I don't enjoy them. My desire is for a fun, reasonably balanced match, not to pugstomp a bunch of uncoordinated puggers who never had a chance.

 

Losing has never been the complaint. A losing match can be a lot of fun, when it's at least a fair fight.

[BuzzingFridge]

You have 8 players.

 

They have 8 players.

 

The only difference is skill and communication. There's nothing "unfair" about that.

[otherworlder]

You have 8 players.

 

They have 8 players.

 

The only difference is skill and communication. There's nothing "unfair" about that.

 

At this point, with apologies, I'm going to write you off as a late night troll having some fun at my expense. This argument is so... wrong headed in so many respects, even premade players don't try to use it without a wink and a smirk these days.

 

Intelligently grouping with players of higher skill, a decent balance of classes (almost always including a healer) and any level of coordination will intrinsically yield an advantage over allowing yourself to be grouped completely at random with people you know nothing about.

 

You also directly countered your own argument in your previous posts by stating that you need a premade to beat a premade, but are now saying it's just 8v8 with no difference.

 

So, well played.

[BuzzingFridge]

You also directly countered your own argument in your previous posts by stating that you need a premade to beat a premade, but are now saying it's just 8v8 with no difference.

 

I never said that you need a pre-made to beat a pre-made. I said that a group of good players will perform better against a pre-made. You can get a group of good players in a PUG, but you don't have any control over that. You could just as easily end up with 7 new players who click all their abilities and don't know how to use their interrupt. If you group with good players, you have the control. You are the one deciding how well your team will fare in the next Warzone, instead of leaving it to the lottery of the WZ group finder.

 

There is nothing unfair about a pre-made playing against a PUG. The pre-made may have the advantage, but it's because they have taken the initiative to organise themselves into a balanced group and improve their skills together. On the other hand, we have you. The solo-queuer who cries because they lose every game, despite being the best PvPer in the world. You know everything about your class and how to play it; you don't need to improve. Communication? Screw that. You're losing every game because the other team is cheating. You're losing every game because the game is broken. It's not your fault. It's everyone else's fault.

[otherworlder]

I never said that you need a pre-made to beat a pre-made. I said that a group of good players will perform better against a pre-made. You can get a group of good players in a PUG, but you don't have any control over that. You could just as easily end up with 7 new players who click all their abilities and don't know how to use their interrupt. If you group with good players, you have the control. You are the one deciding how well your team will fare in the next Warzone, instead of leaving it to the lottery of the WZ group finder.

 

There is nothing unfair about a pre-made playing against a PUG. The pre-made may have the advantage, but it's because they have taken the initiative to organise themselves into a balanced group and improve their skills together. On the other hand, we have you. The solo-queuer who cries because they lose every game, despite being the best PvPer in the world. You know everything about your class and how to play it; you don't need to improve. Communication? Screw that. You're losing every game because the other team is cheating. You're losing every game because the game is broken. It's not your fault. It's everyone else's fault.

 

Making sweeping generalizations about a player/person you've never encountered on the battlefield weakens every argument you make. You know nothing about me, other than that I don't enjoy premades playing against pugs, whether I'm on the premade or the pug. You don't know my level of ability, my level of sportsmanship, how often I win or lose, or how much I contribute.

 

Debate based on the facts in evidence. Assume that everyone who disagrees with you must just be a bad player and you prove that you're both closed minded about the subject and taking it far too personally.

 

I could make grand assumptions that you only enjoy premades because you're a cackling bully who needs to be carried by an unfair advantage to win matches, and that you only make premades because you enjoy farming pugs with a stacked deck.

 

I do NOT, however, make that assumption. I know nothing about you, beyond that you enjoy premades and that you seem very hostile toward anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint.

 

Debate calmly, intelligently, and look through the lens of both viewpoints. You'll win a lot more respect and you may even learn something about the human race in the process.

 

When I pug, I win far, far more often than I lose. I consider myself a good player, but I'm not elite. I don't blame the game for being broken, others for cheating, or come in last place on medals and blame my teammates for my poor performance. But one good player---even one excellent player---on a team of 7 average to below average puggers who are not coordinating will not overcome a team that has 4 good players grouped up and only 4 who are average to below average.

 

Yes, luck in grouping will always be a factor. But simple math tells us that the odds of balanced teams goes way up when ALL of the good players are being distributed at random among the average to below average players rather than concentrated on one team.

Edited June 4, 2013 by otherworlder

[BuzzingFridge]

Making sweeping generalizations about a player/person you've never encountered on the battlefield weakens every argument you make.

 

I know nothing about you, beyond that you enjoy premades and that you seem very hostile toward anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint.

 

That's funny. I thought I only queued solo, but I guess I was wrong.

 

I like irony. Do it again!

Edited June 4, 2013 by BuzzingFridge

[otherworlder]

That's funny. I thought I only queued solo, but I guess I was wrong.

 

I like irony. Do it again!

 

If you aren't here arguing in support of pugs being forced to face premades, then why ARE you here?

 

Also, why so much hostility? Honest question, I'm not looking for passive aggressiveness.

[BuzzingFridge]

If you aren't here arguing in support of pugs being forced to face premades, then why ARE you here?

 

Also, why so much hostility? Honest question, I'm not looking for passive aggressiveness.

 

I just can't stand solo players who complain about pre-mades. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not willing to make an effort to improve your skills and communication you deserve to be smashed by those that are.

 

We had a massive problem with this on my server a few months ago. Several solo players became very vocal and were throwing all kinds of insults at the players in the pre-mades (who were only grouping because they enjoyed playing with their friends). It made PvP very uncomfortable for solo players like myself who were just there to have fun, no matter the result. I didn't have a problem with losing to pre-mades. Part of the reason I queue solo is because I know I will get less protection and be focus-fired more (my main is a healer). My survivability has improved tons from PUGing against pre-mades who know how to focus-fire.

[otherworlder]

I just can't stand solo players who complain about pre-mades. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not willing to make an effort to improve your skills and communication you deserve to be smashed by those that are.

 

We had a massive problem with this on my server a few months ago. Several solo players became very vocal and were throwing all kinds of insults at the players in the pre-mades (who were only grouping because they enjoyed playing with their friends). It made PvP very uncomfortable for solo players like myself who were just there to have fun, no matter the result. I didn't have a problem with losing to pre-mades. Part of the reason I queue solo is because I know I will get less protection and be focus-fired more (my main is a healer). My survivability has improved tons from PUGing against pre-mades who know how to focus-fire.

 

From your perspective, I can completely understand that. Some of us enjoy a challenge more than others, and I agree that only through challenge do we improve. That's part of the same reason my wife and I never enjoyed joining premades, because it's very easy to get lazy and lose your edge.

 

However, just because you don't mind playing against premades (especially in cases where a good premade is dominating a given queue/bracket for hours at a time) doesn't mean others don't mind. They have the right to choose how they want to play, the same as you. Not everyone PvPs to be the best they can, or aims to be one of the best on their server. Some just want to run around and blast **** and swing lightsabers and if they win, awesome. If they don't, that's cool too. And they have a right to ask for that kind of playing field.

 

Having an option to only queue against other solo players would not hurt or change your gameplay. You could still happily solo queue against premades in the current system to your heart's content. All people are asking for is the option to PvP the way they want to---against people who've chosen the same option.

 

I've already said further up this change really wouldn't help me; I play with my wife, so we'd be in the same queue with the premades regardless. But that's fair.

 

Don't we all want the pvp community in this game to be healthy and thriving? Forcing people to treat PvP as a job or to demand that they play at the highest possible level or **** only hurts everyone. More players = bigger development budget, more content, faster queues, more varied competition.

 

You can't demand people play the game the same way you do, any more than they can demand it of you. You may be willing to butt your head up against pugstomp premades to figure out ways to beat them, in those rare cases where a good pug team capable of it falls together, but most don't want to----it's frustrating, unnecessarily difficult, and simply not what most of these players came to TOR looking for.

 

If they don't get what they're looking for, they'll leave. That hurts us all.

[otherworlder]

I would also quickly add that, like you, I can deal with losing to premades---as long as it's not all the time, and as long as they don't completely inhibit gameplay from happening.

 

Getting squashed once in awhile builds character. Getting squashed several matches in a row to the point that your team can't even score a kill is simply not fun, and drives people to stop queueing or quit pvp altogether. That's what happened on my server before FTP hit, and it drained all the life out of the pvp scene there. I don't want to see that happen again, and by most accounts it already is.

[Grobiou]

/signed

[Grobiou]

I just can't stand solo players who complain about pre-mades. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not willing to make an effort to improve your skills and communication you deserve to be smashed by those that are.

 

We had a massive problem with this on my server a few months ago. Several solo players became very vocal and were throwing all kinds of insults at the players in the pre-mades (who were only grouping because they enjoyed playing with their friends). It made PvP very uncomfortable for solo players like myself who were just there to have fun, no matter the result. I didn't have a problem with losing to pre-mades. Part of the reason I queue solo is because I know I will get less protection and be focus-fired more (my main is a healer). My survivability has improved tons from PUGing against pre-mades who know how to focus-fire.

 

You have a point and also Bioware can profit from understanding better their customer segments. It is very clear that having control over the level of difficulty of a game is a desirable feature. At any case, it feels good when you can beat a pre-made in a WZ even when your team can just score 1/10 of their kills.

[AlrikFassbauer]

/signed

[TheNahash]

bump, because the amount of people who just "want to play with their friends, it's not about facerolling pugs" is ridiculous.

[CrazyOldMystic]

Look at the whole picture not just the piece you wants. Blizzard just tried to mes with their qus by making sure each time has a equal number of healers in pvp. End result was a 30 minute qu for pvp for everyone. Now lets take your idea you take what few pvpers there are and split them into two separate qus. What do you think that is going to do, to the already pretty long wait time?

[TheNahash]

Look at the whole picture not just the piece you wants. Blizzard just tried to mes with their qus by making sure each time has a equal number of healers in pvp. End result was a 30 minute qu for pvp for everyone. Now lets take your idea you take what few pvpers there are and split them into two separate qus. What do you think that is going to do, to the already pretty long wait time?

 

Nothing that going against the same premades every day isn't already doing.

And that is, making casual PVPer stop PVPing.

And I hate to say this but once casual PVPers stop PVPing, hardcore PVPers will be QQing like crazy that "queues are too long".

 

I don't know which server you're on, but on my server queues don't take as long as you say, at least for PVP.

 

Lastly, the L2P thing people keep talking about is laughable at best.

We could obviously all get better, that's a given, but to say that it's 1 person's fault that his team is being rolled by a premade is just idiotic.

 

Next Civil War I pug, I'll just go cap mid, then teleport to snow and cap that too and then use my magic carpet to get me back to mid to defend, while the rest of my pug team is fighting somewhere in between, far away from the node they are supposed to be defending.

Edited June 5, 2013 by TheNahash

[CrazyOldMystic]

Nothing that going against the same premades every day isn't already doing.

And that is, making casual PVPer stop PVPing.

And I hate to say this but once casual PVPers stop PVPing, hardcore PVPers will be QQing like crazy that "queues are too long".

 

I don't know which server you're on, but on my server queues don't take as long as you say, at least for PVP.

 

Lastly, the L2P thing people keep talking about is laughable at best.

We could obviously all get better, that's a given, but to say that it's 1 person's fault that his team is being rolled by a premade is just idiotic.

 

Next Civil War I pug, I'll just go cap mid, then teleport to snow and cap that too and then use my magic carpet to get me back to mid to defend, while the rest of my pug team is fighting somewhere in between, far away from the node they are supposed to be defending.

 

Well on my server some days its like 20 to 30 minutes, other days its about 15 minutes on average, and then on rare occasions pops on a regular basis. As far as L2P goes I think it is the most stupid, moron thing, that some kid came up with in regards to pvp. More times then not its the team that causes them selves to loose. These L2ps are always more interested in their kills, then helping out the team. Or trolling the ops chat like spoiled little kids. Ive done my fair share of pvp to know it is always changing, even if its the same map, some days you can do everything right and still loose.

 

If you split the pvp population, I just think its going to mess up the qu, just my opinion.

[Vladnar]

AGREED

 

so sick of 55ths spending all day against premades ive taken to making alts and enjoying the far more interesting lower level pvp BUT in the back of my mind this is annoying to have to do AND will lead to me closing down if they cannot sort it eventually, patience only goes so far.......

[Comfterbilly]

AGREED

 

so sick of 55ths spending all day against premades ive taken to making alts and enjoying the far more interesting lower level pvp BUT in the back of my mind this is annoying to have to do AND will lead to me closing down if they cannot sort it eventually, patience only goes so far.......

 

Amen ^ . It will lead to me closing down too. Premades can't win this argument. They're not losing anything they have now except a statistical margin of victory that BW better know better than to give them. BW, without a solo queue toggle, is simply taking the value of my subscription, and transferring that value to the value of their subscription spoiled little kids who don't want to have to try to hard to win.

 

Meanwhile, my monthly subscription is worth very little to me until I know they're working on this problem.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[Wolfninjajedi]

?...There is a solo que option..am I missing something here?