ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Yungscion]

I would support this as a one time before X level thing.

 

I took me to around 25 or so to realize that I did not like healing on the Operative and would prefer to DPS using from range, but to do that I need to be a sniper. Well as it stands I don't want to redue 25 level of questing, crew skill, commendation collecting, and what not, just to play the other AC.

 

But I definitely think it should be a one time and only before X level.

[Ratajack]

I would support this as a one time before X level thing.

 

I took me to around 25 or so to realize that I did not like healing on the Operative and would prefer to DPS using from range, but to do that I need to be a sniper. Well as it stands I don't want to redue 25 level of questing, crew skill, commendation collecting, and what not, just to play the other AC.

 

But I definitely think it should be a one time and only before X level.

 

The problem with allowing a "one time" change is that "one time" would not be enough, and the cries would be "you let me do it once, why not a second time" and then "a third time", etc. We already have people in this very thread asking for a "one time" change, but those same people who want a "one time" change want to leave themselves an "out" to be able to change back. What does it say to you when people who want to suggest "restricted" AC changes aren't willing to live with the restrictions they suggested?

Edited July 22, 2013 by Ratajack

[ekwalizer]

I would be fine with AC reroll under very specific circumstances.

 

A.) Tie it to a max Legacy level. I've been LL50 since May of last year and there is no real benefit to maxxing out your legacy at the moment.

 

B.) Character being rerolled must be max level. You might suspect that you won't like an AC, but you don't know for sure until you give it an honest assessment at max level.

 

C.) Must have max leveled mirror AC you want to reclass to. You need to make an informed decision. You might leave Operative to go Sniper ... only to find out that you actually enjoyed Operative more.

 

In my world, if you met all three of the above criteria, then yes, you should be able to respec your AC (ONE TIME ONLY). If you don't meet the above, feel free to manually reroll and play.

 

I'm not trying to force anyone to "play my way". But on the same token, I don't want see in GF chat every day "ohi I uzed to be a lightning sorc but naw I'z yer tank, and I needz gear!".

 

Disclaimer: Yes I have replayed multiple stories. I have at least one max level toon in every AC. I have 2 max level BHs, 2 max level SIs, and 2 max level JKs. I have 22 character slots, and while I'd rather respec my Operative to Sniper, I have no qualms with rolling a new toon.

[branmakmuffin]

And still yet more complaining about how others choose to spend their money and play their game.

[TridusSWTOR]

That's the heart of it. Some players don't want other players to enjoy the game how they want. They have to always put limits on the fun they want to have.

 

It's a shame- Let AC change be a thing.

[ekwalizer]

And still yet more complaining about how others choose to spend their money and play their game.

That's the heart of it. Some players don't want other players to enjoy the game how they want. They have to always put limits on the fun they want to have.

It's a shame- Let AC change be a thing.

 

You are both ignoring the fact that if allowed, unrestricted respec will help certain players and certain guilds but as a whole, damage the game. ACs are not classes within classes or even "Prestige Classes". Your AC is your class.

 

How many GF groups have you been in where player X ticked the wrong role box? Dunno about you, but I've been in hundreds of groups where we wind up with 3 DPS and a tank or 3 DPS and a healer. They made a simple, honest mistake and forgot (or didn't know) to deselect a role box ... but their mistake affected me and two other people.

 

It will be very much the same if unrestricted AC respec is allowed. We will, without question, be forced to suffer through players that do not know their role or have the appropriate gear to clear an area. Simply because they wanted to "pay and play the game their way."

 

I used to be in the camp of "allow it". And it isn't a "protect the tab" issue for me either. It boils down to "what is best for the overall state of the game."

 

Some players have the Legacy bound gear and stockpiles of appropriate gear to port over to a newly respecced toon. Most do not.

 

As I said in my previous post, tie it to 3 specific criteria and you will drastically reduce the amount of time-killing bad players we have to suffer in groups. If they are LL50 and the toon they want to respec is max level and they have a max level in the mirror AC, then I am all for it because it minimizes the chance of ruining my day by being forced to group with someone that respecced and did not meet those criteria.

Edited July 23, 2013 by ekwalizer

[TridusSWTOR]

You are both ignoring the fact that if allowed, unrestricted respec will help certain players and certain guilds but as a whole, damage the game. ACs are not classes within classes or even "Prestige Classes". Your AC is your class.

 

How many GF groups have you been in where player X ticked the wrong role box? Dunno about you, but I've been in hundreds of groups where we wind up with 3 DPS and a tank or 3 DPS and a healer. They made a simple, honest mistake and forgot (or didn't know) to deselect a role box ... but their mistake affected me and two other people.

 

It will be very much the same if unrestricted AC respec is allowed. We will, without question, be forced to suffer through players that do not know their role or have the appropriate gear to clear an area. Simply because they wanted to "pay and play the game their way."

 

I used to be in the camp of "allow it". And it isn't a "protect the tab" issue for me either. It boils down to "what is best for the overall state of the game."

 

Some players have the Legacy bound gear and stockpiles of appropriate gear to port over to a newly respecced toon. Most do not.

 

As I said in my previous post, tie it to 3 specific criteria and you will drastically reduce the amount of time-killing bad players we have to suffer in groups. If they are LL50 and the toon they want to respec is max level and they have a max level in the mirror AC, then I am all for it because it minimizes the chance of ruining my day by being forced to group with someone that respecced and did not meet those criteria.

 

I am willing to accept terms on how the AC change would work. I can understand that unlimited AC changes shouldn't be the answer but AC changes should be an option. If you don't think AC changes should be an option then you are telling players how to play the game and enforcing choices on them because of your own beliefs of greed.

 

So come to me with terms or admit you are on the other side of the wall with an unforgiving nature and we shall see where the dust settles.

[ekwalizer]

I am willing to accept terms on how the AC change would work. I can understand that unlimited AC changes shouldn't be the answer but AC changes should be an option. If you don't think AC changes should be an option then you are telling players how to play the game and enforcing choices on them because of your own beliefs of greed.

 

So come to me with terms or admit you are on the other side of the wall with an unforgiving nature and we shall see where the dust settles.

 

1. My own beliefs of greed? You're going to have to explain that one. How is it "greedy" for me to explain to you how AC respec is bad for the game?
   
2. I have laid out my terms, twice.
   
3. I do have an unforgiving nature.
   
4. It doesn't take long to a.) level up or b.) figure out you don't like a particular AC.
   

[Ratajack]

I am willing to accept terms on how the AC change would work. I can understand that unlimited AC changes shouldn't be the answer but AC changes should be an option. If you don't think AC changes should be an option then you are telling players how to play the game and enforcing choices on them because of your own beliefs of greed.

 

So come to me with terms or admit you are on the other side of the wall with an unforgiving nature and we shall see where the dust settles.

 

First, I guess by your definition, the devs are telling you how to play the game and enforcing their choices on you since they make the rules and the rules state that you cannot change your class.

 

Second, the poster you quoted did offer suggested terms as to a possible implementation of class changes. They may not be terms that you like, but he DID offer suggested terms.

[Yungscion]

I would be fine with AC reroll under very specific circumstances.

 

A.) Tie it to a max Legacy level. I've been LL50 since May of last year and there is no real benefit to maxxing out your legacy at the moment.

 

B.) Character being rerolled must be max level. You might suspect that you won't like an AC, but you don't know for sure until you give it an honest assessment at max level.

 

C.) Must have max leveled mirror AC you want to reclass to. You need to make an informed decision. You might leave Operative to go Sniper ... only to find out that you actually enjoyed Operative more.

 

In my world, if you met all three of the above criteria, then yes, you should be able to respec your AC (ONE TIME ONLY). If you don't meet the above, feel free to manually reroll and play.

 

I'm not trying to force anyone to "play my way". But on the same token, I don't want see in GF chat every day "ohi I uzed to be a lightning sorc but naw I'z yer tank, and I needz gear!".

 

Disclaimer: Yes I have replayed multiple stories. I have at least one max level toon in every AC. I have 2 max level BHs, 2 max level SIs, and 2 max level JKs. I have 22 character slots, and while I'd rather respec my Operative to Sniper, I have no qualms with rolling a new toon.

 

If the concerns are people queuing with wrong gear and not knowing how to play their spec, wouldn't you want to limit the choice to before max level? This would give the player time to learn their class and get appropriate equipment before they hit max level and start queuing.

[LordArtemis]

Most of the arguments against AC should be ignored IMO as most are either ridiculous or flimsy at best.

 

From my perspective there are only two real reputable arguments against AC change.

 

1) Would make AC even less meaningful than it is now

2) Would perhaps cause certain ACs to become underrepresented in the game

 

I think one could say both would have a negative effect on the game, but that is speculative naturally.

 

Most of the other reasons cited are simply either made up, hyperbole or foolish.

 

I do not care to see AC change mainly for reason number 1. I also think reason number 2 deserves consideration.

[Ancaglon]

This option was available in beta, and was removed shortly after official launch.

While I can't speak for Beta, it certainly wasn't available at launch, or even early access which in my case was 5 days before the official launch.

 

I do however support AC changing with significant cartel coin costs and a cooldown of at least 30 days, so that it isn't treated trivially.

[Gamman]

I'm putting my vote as well, to have a way to change Advanced Classes (with restrictions of course).

 

I have a Sentinel who I want to turn into a Guardian, mostly because I realized I really should have my Jedi's character concept be a little bit more into the carrying-just-one-saber tradition. He is already level 55, for a long while now. I also have a level 55 Juggernaut as well, who I want to turn into a Marauder. Both characters will basically be switching their AC's.

 

So, I for one, have been playing both AC's and know them quite well. I just wish I could switch their AC's and have them more in-line with the current changes to their character concepts that I now have in mind for them (which is a big thing for me in creating, customizing, and playing characters in MMO's). Yes, I actually write backstories for my MMO characters in my head (and sometimes on notepad) and it was much later that I realized I made a mistake with their AC's for what I want.

 

I'm fine if they require that you have both AC's at max level, have legacy level 50 and such. I have all those requirements anyway. Just give us the option to do so.

[Yungscion]

Most of the arguments against AC should be ignored IMO as most are either ridiculous or flimsy at best.

 

From my perspective there are only two real reputable arguments against AC change.

 

1) Would make AC even less meaningful than it is now

2) Would perhaps cause certain ACs to become underrepresented in the game

 

I think one could say both would have a negative effect on the game, but that is speculative naturally.

 

Most of the other reasons cited are simply either made up, hyperbole or foolish.

 

I do not care to see AC change mainly for reason number 1. I also think reason number 2 deserves consideration.

 

I would agree with 1, only if there was something unique (other then spec and playstyle) about the AC's, like an AC questline. I think for me I just see AC as the sub-spec (ie BM Hunter vs MM Hunter). I think if I truly saw AC as the class itself (which does make sense considering there are multiple specs under each AC) then I would probably agree with you more, not that I am fully for or against AC change, I really have no strong feelings either way.

 

EDIT (ADDITION): I think the original concept was interesting, but presentation of it was bad. They should have just made 8 classes per faction, with the various sub-specs as the "AC". You could even explain away the similar low level skills as a training thing. IE Operatives and Snipers all start at the same basic place but then their training diverges. You could have even made it apart of the class story to do a special training mission at level 10. But by picking it at creation it is more sealed in your mind as your permanent class.

 

For my perspective I just want my first character whom I am attached to (I would consider my "main") be the AC that I would prefer, now knowing I don't want to operative heal. But I like operative DPS enough that it doesn't bother me to the point of signing a petition for AC change, just more a QoL thing for me.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Yungscion

[TridusSWTOR]

First, I guess by your definition, the devs are telling you how to play the game and enforcing their choices on you since they make the rules and the rules state that you cannot change your class.

 

Second, the poster you quoted did offer suggested terms as to a possible implementation of class changes. They may not be terms that you like, but he DID offer suggested terms.

 

They are bad terms and favor one side only. I demand new terms set.

 

I guess when bioware didn't make sprint at level 1 for subs, they stuck by their rules. Oh wait they changed that didn't they?

 

You are a fool to believe a game should never stop changing, so once again stop enforcing your rules and beliefs on me. I am offering a choice between you changing your AC or not, while you offer no choice at all. Who is the arrogant one here? You sir, you.

[TridusSWTOR]

1. My own beliefs of greed? You're going to have to explain that one. How is it "greedy" for me to explain to you how AC respec is bad for the game?
   
2. I have laid out my terms, twice.
   
3. I do have an unforgiving nature.
   
4. It doesn't take long to a.) level up or b.) figure out you don't like a particular AC.
   

 

Like I said to the other poster, I offer choice between changing your AC or not changing your AC.

 

You offer no choice on the other hand, that is where the greedy kicks in. I read your terms, and they are unbelievably biased toward one side.

 

The only meaningful compromise would be the following:

1. Limit the AC change per character to 3 times.

2. Allow the AC change to happen to level 11-55

3. You don't need a mirror class for an AC change.

4. AC change requires a large amount of CC or Credits to go through.

 

I face noobs that don't know there class right now, so worrying about people being new to a different AC is moot. It already happens and that point as been debunked. Those are the terms that are not only fair and reasonable but they are the only ones that make sense.

 

That is all.

[maximumdamages]

What was that? I can't hear you over my re-rolling...

[ekwalizer]

Like I said to the other poster, I offer choice between changing your AC or not changing your AC.

 

You offer no choice on the other hand, that is where the greedy kicks in. I read your terms, and they are unbelievably biased toward one side.

 

The only meaningful compromise would be the following:

1. Limit the AC change per character to 3 times.

2. Allow the AC change to happen to level 11-55

3. You don't need a mirror class for an AC change.

4. AC change requires a large amount of CC or Credits to go through.

 

I face noobs that don't know there class right now, so worrying about people being new to a different AC is moot. It already happens and that point as been debunked. Those are the terms that are not only fair and reasonable but they are the only ones that make sense.

 

That is all.

 

EDIT: 1. You don't demand anything from me.

Fairly certain that I did offer a path to respec, which is in fact an option to choose.

 

How do your terms favor both sides and not show your own greed?

 

There is a large amount of players that do not want AC change at all, but under your vision each toon would be able to do it 3 times. Why 3? If you start as Assassin, then switch to Sorc only to find out you liked Assassin better - then only 2 respecs would ever be marginally justifiable.

 

Further you recommend being able to respec before you even get a good feel for your current AC. I could see 40-55, but certainly not 11.

 

How do you know you will like the opposing AC better than your current if you don't have a mirror to make an informed decision?

 

I'm fine with hitching a ridiculous credit/CC price tag to it.

 

Giving sprint at level 1 compared to AC respec is a straw-man argument at best. Everyone would have eventually received Sprint at level 14. There is no current mechanism to receive AC respec. So no, you are trying to compare apples to orangutans.

 

Your terms, in my opinion, are no less ludicrous than my terms are to you.

Edited July 24, 2013 by ekwalizer

[branmakmuffin]

You are both ignoring the fact that if allowed, unrestricted respec will help certain players and certain guilds but as a whole, damage the game.

What's that you say, the sky will fall if AC changes are allowed?

 

Tempest in a tea cup, mountain out of a molehill, first world problem, pick your poison.

[Hockaday]

ACs are classes. So no. If you really wanted to make Class switching, do it EQ2 style or something, a long and annoying quest. Can be repeated as much as you want, but you have to grind it out awhile. In eq2 it makes you KOS to all the faction cities while you do this. Not sure how you could do that here....but yeah.

[branmakmuffin]

ACs are classes.

ACs are not totally different classes from each other. They share the same set of basic class skills.

 

So no. If you really wanted to make Class switching, do it EQ2 style or something, a long and annoying quest. Can be repeated as much as you want, but you have to grind it out awhile. In eq2 it makes you KOS to all the faction cities while you do this. Not sure how you could do that here....but yeah.

Yes, "intentionally annoying" is a great feature in mass market entertainment.

 

Edited July 23, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[TridusSWTOR]

Fairly certain that I did offer a path to respec, which is in fact an option to choose.

 

How do your terms favor both sides and not show your own greed?

 

There is a large amount of players that do not want AC change at all, but under your vision each toon would be able to do it 3 times. Why 3? If you start as Assassin, then switch to Sorc only to find out you liked Assassin better - then only 2 respecs would ever be marginally justifiable.

 

Further you recommend being able to respec before you even get a good feel for your current AC. I could see 40-55, but certainly not 11.

 

How do you know you will like the opposing AC better than your current if you don't have a mirror to make an informed decision?

 

I'm fine with hitching a ridiculous credit/CC price tag to it.

 

Giving sprint at level 1 compared to AC respec is a straw-man argument at best. Everyone would have eventually received Sprint at level 14. There is no current mechanism to receive AC respec. So no, you are trying to compare apples to orangutans.

 

Your terms, in my opinion, are no less ludicrous than my terms are to you.

 

The difference between you and me, with my choice. You can never deal with this whole AC change thing if you don't want too.

 

You on the other hand give no option and the options you do provide defeat the purpose. What is the point of forcing a player to level up a class that they know they don't enjoy, just so they can change AC's of that class? Makes no sense at all.

 

You say it's to avoid people that are noobs to the class- Guess what, the point you never addressed yet, you still get noobs that are new to their AC at level 55 now. So you still have yet to provide a reasonable explanation on why you are offering such a biased, greedy, and pathetic reason.

 

Why 3 times? Why not? Do you pay their sub? No? Then it shouldn't matter to you, oh wait you want to control how other players play, I gotcha. You're greed is showing.

 

Once again- I provide choice to players, you offer ridiculous red tape which translate to no choice at all.

[ekwalizer]

Once again- I provide choice to players, you offer ridiculous red tape which translate to no choice at all.

 

They already made their choice then they selected their AC.

[branmakmuffin]

They already made their choice then they selected their AC.

Yes, they made their choice as it stands now. BWEA is free to change that.

[Ratajack]

Yes, they made their choice as it stands now. BWEA is free to change that.

 

But is under NO obligation to do so.

 

Given BW's complete and total silence on this subject, it appears that there will be no class changes for the foreseeable future.