ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Ratajack]

You did level a class to max level though and you are definately not getting an additional character. This should balance out any feelings of exclusivity some players seem so attached to. I appreciate there are many players out there that don't have an abundance of free time and I'm quite happy to discuss the potential to open up options that allow them a little more flexibility in how they play the game. It really has no impact on me personally what so ever. I can't help but wonder why you feel so threatened by this suggestion?

 

 

 

 

You may have missed my earlier post. I have played all the classes (or their mirror). I class myself as an average player able to get through most content of suitable level and equipped for it. It is not a difficult swap between melee and ranged, any more than it is between a change in role from tanking to DPS or DPS to healing. Learn the basics and you are set. This may be less relevant if you are trying to get a position in a top end raiding group or ranked PvP team, but lets be honest there are many more hoops required for them to jump through and the most important part is whether the player is actually capable or not. That is easily demonstrated in game by running a HM FP or two with them.

 

 

 

 

Please remember that not every one that comes to SWTOR has come from an MMO background. There are many reasons for playing, because they liked KOTOR, because they want to play the same game as their friends, because they are fans of Star Wars. None of these reasons predicts a vast knowledge of the roles you can be expected to play in an MMO.

Those gamers with a strong sense of roleplaying also have a tendancy to place story at the forefront of character selection. Given the way in which Bioware constructed the class structure (primarily one of limited resource to create multiple classes that other MMOs offered while keeping the number of individual stories to a managable level).

The Story and way in which you identify with your character is not pathetic and is very real, just look at the lengths and expense some players will goto to get their character looking how they want them to.

 

From your tone and the points you make it strikes me you don't focus on the story so much, you are a pure mechanics kind of person, which is fine, but it's not the only way of looking at the game and I would ask you to try and be respectful of the view point of others.

 

Please remember that no matter whether or not those playing this game came from an MMO background, this is still an MMO and there is no reason to try to turn it into something else.

[Soxbadger]

Id actually pay CC for this on my bounty hunter. I do not play alts much but back before 2.0 I needed a break from always being a sorc healer and thought Id pick a class that had no healing option so that Id never have to heal. I leveled up a BH to level 30. I then realized that it was a waste for my AC to be tank/dps because I was never going to tank and I was just frustrated when I created the BH instead of the merc.

 

Now months later my BH just sits there because I dont really see a point in grinding it out until endgame. I also dont really feel like completely redoing chapter 1 of the story.

 

So being able to switch my class would be great advantage. A fair compromise could be perhaps offering AC changes at the end of each chapter. Because I hate to say it, but you really dont know the class at level 10.

[Ratajack]

Well, Hizoka said that the devs have the only view that matters. Therefore, if the the devs changed the game to allow AC swap, that would be the only view that mattered. According to Hizoka.

 

If the devs changed the game to allow class changes, that would be their decision. It WOULD cost BW subs, I'm sure, as many of the players are against allowing class changes. Allowing class changes is much more of a traditional MMO no-no than allowing cosmetic changes.

 

Whether they stand to make more from a quick cash grab then they will lose in subs, who knows?

[Ratajack]

Who wants a new max level character?

 

Please quote someone that said they want that. Oh wait you can't and you are moving goal-post to try to help what litle argument you thought you had. You failed.

 

When you level a toon up to 55 and change AC's, does that add a fresh new level 55 character in your character slot for the account? Please answer this.

 

 

Does changing class give you a character of a class which you did not level, even if you no longer have the class you leveled?

[Kilora]

you do not seem to understand the difference in a quality of life change and giving someone a max level class. But hey not everyone can be of average intelligence.

 

Correct. Clearly you are not of average intelligence, and you don't quite make just-below average either.

Just stop. You are resorting to attacking PEOPLE because of their OPINIONS. That is quite immature.

 

YOU don't think it is QoL. Fine, but realize that is subjective. I suggest you look the term up, as you clearly don't understand what it means.

 

YOU think it is giving someone a max level class. Fine, but realize that is subjective. I suggest you look the term up, as you clearly don't understand what it means.

 

You need to learn to accept that other people have opinions, and you have no right to tell them they are wrong for having them. You have no right to dictate how other people define QoL, nor do you have any right to dictate how others play the game -- ESPECIALLY when it has no impact on you at all.

 

AS I SAID BEFORE:

 

The devs have already stated this is a possibility, and we will probably see it in game at some point. Regardless of how you feel, they have spoken. Now, we will either see it added to the game, or not. Either way, your opinion on whether or not it is a full-class change is pointless.

[Ratajack]

but you fail to mention the time frame of how long and how often they would be able to fill all three roles. It's natural you avoid this little fact because it debunks everything you are trying to say.

 

Thus far, as the poster said before me, there would be timed lock outs/higher cost to avoid turning it into a field respec option and more of a character create type cost.

 

The devs did not intend for a single character to be able to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME. It makes no difference if that character has to wait three months to go from being a tank to being a healer, allowing a single character to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME goes directly against the design intent.

 

Also, what makes you think that people would accept ANY restrictions on class changes. All you have to do is look at this thread and see the numbers of people who want to change their class when there are already restrictions in place regarding changing class. Look at the numbers of people here clamoring for the already existing restrictions to be lifted or loosened That does not even include the posters who have already stated that they want unrestricted and/or unlimited and/or free class changes.

[Soxbadger]

Wow this is argument is entirely semantics (and not one good reason against).

 

Yes they would have a new AC that they didnt have before.

 

BUT

 

They would have the same amount of lvl 55 characters. If I am a Sorc and switch to an Assassin, I still earned the exact same amount of exp, I put in the exact same amount of time, I just am getting a class that I now enjoy.

 

The obvious downside is flavor of the month etc, and people do a bunch of changes. Hence why perhaps limiting the change to the end of chapter 1/2 etc would be fair. That way you can toy around with a tank and decide its not for you. I just dont know how you can legitimately test out what you like pre-level 10. Ill never have a bunch of level 55's, but it would be nice to have every healer.

 

I guess I just dont see why I would care if another person wants to switch classes.

[Kilora]

If the devs changed the game to allow class changes, that would be their decision. It WOULD cost BW subs, I'm sure, as many of the players are against allowing class changes. Allowing class changes is much more of a traditional MMO no-no than allowing cosmetic changes.

 

Whether they stand to make more from a quick cash grab then they will lose in subs, who knows?

 

We don't actually know it would cost them subs. We also don't know enough to say "many of the players are against" anything. In every MMO I've played, there was no reason to even look for a class-change with the exception of FoTM-swapping. Grind-based MMOs are very different -- you can easily grind up to level, faster than if you did story. The same isn't exactly true in SWTOR.

 

Honestly, I feel they would GAIN more subs than they would lose. They aren't exactly doing anything to hold on to the "traditional MMO" gamers, so I doubt that is a factor in the decision. How many people claimed they would leave if they had to pay for Character transfers? Clearly, people on the forums aren't as important as they like to think they are.

[Hizoka]

We don't actually know it would cost them subs. We also don't know enough to say "many of the players are against" anything. In every MMO I've played, there was no reason to even look for a class-change with the exception of FoTM-swapping. Grind-based MMOs are very different -- you can easily grind up to level, faster than if you did story. The same isn't exactly true in SWTOR.

 

Honestly, I feel they would GAIN more subs than they would lose. They aren't exactly doing anything to hold on to the "traditional MMO" gamers, so I doubt that is a factor in the decision. How many people claimed they would leave if they had to pay for Character transfers? Clearly, people on the forums aren't as important as they like to think they are.

 

when several high end raiding guilds say they will unsub if they add in class changes then we know they will lose subs.

 

The people who want the pay to win option of a new max level toon they did not earn are not going to be long term players. They are the instant gradification crowd and as soon as they get bored they will be gone. An MMO runs of long term subscribers allowing people to skip all leveling content is not a good way to get people to experiance more content.

[LordArtemis]

Folks are going to be passionate about how they feel. The same thing happened when people suggested an appearance system, F2P and species unlocks back in beta. The arguments back and forth were very heated, with similar arguments to the ones posted here.

 

But one thing I would like to remind everyone of is that the rules for the forum are very clear. In my experience, it's ok to post your opinion, even if its a harsh one, and ok to insult someones post or opinion.

 

It is not, however, ok to insult someone directly, or a group of gamers or forum members directly.

 

Supporting or standing against AC change is not a measure of intelligence. But failing to have self control is an example of a lack of ability to discuss a matter in a civil fashion. Only those with weak arguments or little control over their emotions resort to direct insults.

 

Snarky is fine as far as I can tell. I even get a bit snarky from time to time. Just leave the direct insults at the door.

[Ratajack]

Right now, you should remove yourself from the forums and take a break. Possibly seek help.

 

Do NOT assume you know why people want this. I'd appreciate it because I HATE playing my juggernaut. Then again, I may hate Mara just as much. I'm also being smart, and rolling the opposite AC on the opposite faction -- so, different AC and different storyline.

 

Secondly, stop calling people entitled and lazy just because you disagree with someone. You're acting like a 5-year-old telling other people they don't deserve anything because you don't want them to have it. Grow up, please.

 

So -- should I not be able to rename my toon? What about purchasing Cartel Packs and selling them for credits? Isn't that "lazy and entitled"? Was asking for field-respec lazy and entitled? Quick Travel?

 

Just because YOU don't like something, doesn't make it bad. I've seen absolutely NO evidence that a significant number of people would leave over this. NONE. You making up wild stories isn't helping your case.

 

 

IF you can have an actual discussion on the merits of AC Change, I will continue a discussion with you. Merely saying "they're different classes!!!!111" isn't an argument -- because what the Devs have already said shows that this particular point does NOT matter to them. There is no evidence whatsoever that this would have a negative impact on the game.

 

 

I have seen absolutely NO evidence that this game will NOT lose more than a few subs if they allow class changes. I have also not seen any evidence that those who wish to change their class will leave this game. Quite the contrary regarding the latter, as the numbers of continuing subscribers in this thread who want class changes to be added would indicate.

 

So, let's look at this purely from a logical and monetary viewpoint. BW has those who wish to change their class still paying and playing hoping to be able to change their class, and still has those who are against class changes paying and playing because they have not added class changes. By maintaining the status quo, they retain most, if not all, the players and they risk losing the subs of those who feel strongly enough about class changes being a "no-no" if they add the ability to change your class. Which makes more financial sense-keeping the status quo or adding class changes?

[LordArtemis]

I'd also like to add that it seemed to me many top guilds in the game...at least a half a dozen by my count...indicated their entire guild would leave the game if they implemented F2P.

 

The kind of threats being made now are attempts to either ignore the reality of the situation and the market or keep the status quo. I understand that there are fans of the original design intent. Unfortunately those restrictive design decisions, including not allowing AC change when AC was chosen 10 levels into the leveling process doomed the game to failure.

 

Simply put, hardcore gamers can not support this title. Casual players, IMO, make up the majority of the playerbase. And I do not believe that casual players would be offended enough to leave the game even if they didn't like this change.

 

I don't like the idea of AC change. I think many casuals players don't like it either. They like their class to mean something. That is the whole point of being a certain class.....but I don't think it's something that will cause those casual players that do not care for AC change to leave the game, no more than any other change that has been implemented in recent times.

 

I think, if implemented (which is not a sure thing) it will be something that the vast majority of gamers will accept, abet perhaps begrudgingly, much like the Cartel Market.

 

Yes, it is likely some hardcore players will leave the game. Many already have due to the recent design changes...but the game has more overall casual appeal, and like it or not this is the probable future of the game.

 

....and unfortunately, at least for those that find AC change something they do not like like myself we all might have to take a bite. I for one hope this never comes to pass, but I will not quit the game if it does. I will simply move on to other battles and adjust.

Edited June 25, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Kilora]

Which makes more financial sense-keeping the status quo or adding class changes?

 

Your entire reply is based off of an opinion based off of pure speculation.

 

We have no evidence that anyone is staying in hopes of a class change.

We have no evidence that anyone is leaving because they can't class change.

We have no evidence that anyone would leave because of class changes.

 

Most people who claim they will leave because of this? Most likely won't. They will stick around for a month, see that it had 0 affect on them, or their guild, and then they will forget about it and move on to the next argument.

 

IF it had an affect on others -- using IF because we have no evidence either way -- I could see many more people leaving that anyone would assume.

 

Financially? It would be worth the risk. Charge $40-60 for a one-time AC swap (that allows you, within 24-48 hours or something, to "undo" the swap). Only 1 useable per character -- and maybe only X amount per account.

 

That would make them more money than the alternative -- which is telling people to re-roll. I could cancel my sub right now and level 1-55 without issue for free.

 

I honestly don't care either way. Depending on price, I MIGHT use it once if it was added. Or I might ignore it completely.

 

LOGICALLY, you cannot be against something when you have 0 evidence it would be detrimental to the game. Anyone against this is not thinking purely logically -- they are using emotion and the "status-quo" of other games to back-up a viewpoint not shared by everyone. Not a bad thing -- until it ends up in the realm of attacking other posters for holding an opinion, or for even pointing out the irrational behaviour.

[LordArtemis]

I really do think that I am part of a minority of players that do not want or desire AC change. It is unfortunate IMO, but likely the reality. I think most casual players do not care one way or the other, or they would welcome it.

 

I think this is something that will likely happen sooner or later. They could have prevented this whole issue, IMO, if they had made the choice have more meaning or simply had us choose it at level 1. It was silly to design it this way in the first place.

Edited June 25, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Ratajack]

Your entire reply is based off of an opinion based off of pure speculation.

 

We have no evidence that anyone is staying in hopes of a class change.

We have no evidence that anyone is leaving because they can't class change.

We have no evidence that anyone would leave because of class changes.

 

Most people who claim they will leave because of this? Most likely won't. They will stick around for a month, see that it had 0 affect on them, or their guild, and then they will forget about it and move on to the next argument.

 

IF it had an affect on others -- using IF because we have no evidence either way -- I could see many more people leaving that anyone would assume.

 

Financially? It would be worth the risk. Charge $40-60 for a one-time AC swap (that allows you, within 24-48 hours or something, to "undo" the swap). Only 1 useable per character -- and maybe only X amount per account.

 

That would make them more money than the alternative -- which is telling people to re-roll. I could cancel my sub right now and level 1-55 without issue for free.

 

I honestly don't care either way. Depending on price, I MIGHT use it once if it was added. Or I might ignore it completely.

 

LOGICALLY, you cannot be against something when you have 0 evidence it would be detrimental to the game. Anyone against this is not thinking purely logically -- they are using emotion and the "status-quo" of other games to back-up a viewpoint not shared by everyone. Not a bad thing -- until it ends up in the realm of attacking other posters for holding an opinion, or for even pointing out the irrational behaviour.

 

 

First of all, are the players in this forum who are asking for class changes to be implemented still paying subs? That would be a yes, as they would not be able to post if they were not subs. That would be evidence that at least some of the players who wish to change their class are still playing and paying.

 

You are correct in that we do have any evidence that people are leaving because they cannot class change. We also do not have any direct evidence that people will leave if they allow class changes. While your opinion is that everyone will just go "ok, whatever" and keep paying, I think there are those that feel strongly enough about violating a traditional, unwritten rule of MMO's that BW will lose subs. How many we will not know unless BW chooses to allow class changes.

 

I am not opposed to your suggested cost, if they were going to allow paid class changes. You suggested a cost of $40-60 for a ONE-TIME CLASS CHANGE (and you cannot even hold yourself to a one-time change, since you want to leave yourself an out). Do you really think that those who wish to change their class will be willing to pay that much or that they would accept a one-time class change? I give it less than one page before we see the first post decrying that cost and/or limit to a one-time change.

[Ratajack]

I really do think that I am part of a minority of players that do not want or desire AC change. It is unfortunate IMO, but likely the reality. I think most casual players do not care one way or the other, or they would welcome it.

 

I think this is something that will likely happen sooner or later. They could have prevented this whole issue, IMO, if they had made the choice have more meaning or simply had us choose it at level 1. It was silly to design it this way in the first place.

 

They could even make a further statement their intents with regards to AC's being different classes and with regards to the possibility of allowing class changes. They remain silent, despite this 190+ page thread, and I interpret this silence as an indication that they have no desire or intention to change the status quo. Am I correct? Who knows?

[Vhaegrant]

First of all, are the players in this forum who are asking for class changes to be implemented still paying subs? That would be a yes, as they would not be able to post if they were not subs. That would be evidence that at least some of the players who wish to change their class are still playing and paying.

 

Yes, I am a paying subscriber. I'm not actually sure why I seem to have picked this proposed option to get involved in as I have already levelled eight classes to 55 and have my next eight sat waiting to go. Although it may be fun to have the option unlocked on my Powertech for a bit of variety.

Looking at arguments, sorry frank discussions, on a forum, especially ones limited to paying subscribers is never a good way of judging the actual support for an idea in game. many players don't come to the forums even if they do sub.

 

You are correct in that we do have any evidence that people are leaving because they cannot class change. We also do not have any direct evidence that people will leave if they allow class changes. While your opinion is that everyone will just go "ok, whatever" and keep paying, I think there are those that feel strongly enough about violating a traditional, unwritten rule of MMO's that BW will lose subs. How many we will not know unless BW chooses to allow class changes.

 

Only Bioware have this information within their metrics and the questionnaire answers from players that leave. They should be able to see how often a player uses a class and how long characters languish between play sessions.

I'm not sure I agree with the 'traditional, unwritten rule' bit though. Guild Wars allowed far more variety in its class set up as did Rifts and The Secret World. I'm not commenting on whether these are better games but they do not use such a fixed aspect to class.

 

I am not opposed to your suggested cost, if they were going to allow paid class changes. You suggested a cost of $40-60 for a ONE-TIME CLASS CHANGE (and you cannot even hold yourself to a one-time change, since you want to leave yourself an out). Do you really think that those who wish to change their class will be willing to pay that much or that they would accept a one-time class change? I give it less than one page before we see the first post decrying that cost and/or limit to a one-time change.

 

I'll see that wager

That sort of price is ridiculous for a casual player to consider even if it does negate the need to sit through the same story again. Thinking about it I even think the 600/40 cartel coin cost I suggested is probably a little high.

 

 

I guess at the end of the day I just don't understand why some players are so protective over the revered concept of class. It means very little to me, what matters to me is that the player is having a fun time playing a character they want to. It is also more likely if they are having fun they will stick around longer and be prepared to pay for extras and vanity items (ie. use the cartel market).

[Kilora]

They could even make a further statement their intents with regards to AC's being different classes and with regards to the possibility of allowing class changes. They remain silent, despite this 190+ page thread, and I interpret this silence as an indication that they have no desire or intention to change the status quo. Am I correct? Who knows?

 

I interpret the silence as them not wanting to give information about something that is in the works =D

 

In reality, it could be either. Or a billion other reasons. Only time will tell.

[Kilora]

First of all, are the players in this forum who are asking for class changes to be implemented still paying subs? That would be a yes, as they would not be able to post if they were not subs. That would be evidence that at least some of the players who wish to change their class are still playing and paying.

 

(and you cannot even hold yourself to a one-time change, since you want to leave yourself an out). Do you really think that those who wish to change their class will be willing to pay that much or that they would accept a one-time class change? I give it less than one page before we see the first post decrying that cost and/or limit to a one-time change.

 

First -- you can post on the forums after your subscription has lapsed. I believe it is only for a certain period of time -- but you don't have to be an active subscriber to post. My entire point is -- no one should be making assumptions over why people leave, or why they stay -- or what will cause them to leave/stay.

 

Fine, rephrase it to a TWO-TIME change. If you're going to argue semantics. I couldn't care less -- and am not trying to "leave myself an out." I don't need an out for a feature I'd probably not use. If it was literally one-time-only, I have no complaints. It is just another option given to the players.

 

You mean, like the people crying about how they can now transfer, but the price is ridiculous and they can't change faction as well, or from EU <<>> NA? Right. That will happen no matter what BW does -- someone is ALWAYS unhappy.

 

The argument of, "Well, some people will leave" is absolutely pointless. No one cares. People cry and say they are going to leave all the time -- and then we get new players who enjoy the game. Long-term subs leave the game, come back, leave, etc. etc.

[Ratajack]

Yes, I am a paying subscriber. I'm not actually sure why I seem to have picked this proposed option to get involved in as I have already levelled eight classes to 55 and have my next eight sat waiting to go. Although it may be fun to have the option unlocked on my Powertech for a bit of variety.

Looking at arguments, sorry frank discussions, on a forum, especially ones limited to paying subscribers is never a good way of judging the actual support for an idea in game. many players don't come to the forums even if they do sub.

 

I am well aware that forums are comprised mostly of the vocal minority, and not the majority of players. The best that we can do is to extrapolate using the theory that the forums comprise a representative minority, much like a political poll uses a small sample to project a larger trend.

 

 

Only Bioware have this information within their metrics and the questionnaire answers from players that leave. They should be able to see how often a player uses a class and how long characters languish between play sessions.

I'm not sure I agree with the 'traditional, unwritten rule' bit though. Guild Wars allowed far more variety in its class set up as did Rifts and The Secret World. I'm not commenting on whether these are better games but they do not use such a fixed aspect to class.

 

How well are Guild Wars or the secret world doing? To the best of my knowledge, you cannot change your class in Rift, only your souls, much like changing spec in this game or WOW.

 

 

I'll see that wager

That sort of price is ridiculous for a casual player to consider even if it does negate the need to sit through the same story again. Thinking about it I even think the 600/40 cartel coin cost I suggested is probably a little high.

 

 

I guess at the end of the day I just don't understand why some players are so protective over the revered concept of class. It means very little to me, what matters to me is that the player is having a fun time playing a character they want to. It is also more likely if they are having fun they will stick around longer and be prepared to pay for extras and vanity items (ie. use the cartel market).

 

Thank you for proving my point. It didn't even take a page for someone to decry the cost suggested by the poster to whom I responded.

[LordArtemis]

They could even make a further statement their intents with regards to AC's being different classes and with regards to the possibility of allowing class changes. They remain silent, despite this 190+ page thread, and I interpret this silence as an indication that they have no desire or intention to change the status quo. Am I correct? Who knows?

 

Well, I pointed out in the past that I would love for them to come out and say, in no uncertain terms AC IS YOUR CLASS. I would even like to see them go further by removing all references to your base class post level 10 and forcing the level 10 AC change. Finally, it would be nice if they moved your base abilities in under you AC header, removed the base class header, and offer a quest line at max level that is specific to your AC in which they refer to you by AC name.

 

All of that would fix the lack of meaning problem IMO.

 

Naturally, if that would not be good for the game (in other words if the majority of players would not like it) I would not campaign for it to be implemented. In the end, like AC change or not, I want the game to succeed.

[Ratajack]

Well, I pointed out in the past that I would love for them to come out and say, in no uncertain terms AC IS YOUR CLASS. I would even like to see them go further by removing all references to your base class post level 10 and forcing the level 10 AC change. Finally, it would be nice if they moved your base abilities in under you AC header, removed the base class header, and offer a quest line at max level that is specific to your AC in which they refer to you by AC name.

 

All of that would fix the lack of meaning problem IMO.

 

Naturally, if that would not be good for the game (in other words if the majority of players would not like it) I would not campaign for it to be implemented. In the end, like AC change or not, I want the game to succeed.

 

On all of these points, we agree.

[Vhaegrant]

I am well aware that forums are comprised mostly of the vocal minority, and not the majority of players. The best that we can do is to extrapolate using the theory that the forums comprise a representative minority, much like a political poll uses a small sample to project a larger trend.

 

I think at this point about the only thing we can extrapolate is that there are six forumites who stand equally entrenched on opposite sides of the discussion

 

 

How well are Guild Wars or the secret world doing? To the best of my knowledge, you cannot change your class in Rift, only your souls, much like changing spec in this game or WOW.

 

I have no idea, as I said I wasn't commenting on the quality of the game only as to whether there was an 'unwritten rule' as to how important class was in a game. For a game that promoted itself on the importance of story, full voice over and cinematics I would be willing to make allowances on the importance of class.

 

I have a preference to see the base class as the Class of a character and the Advanced Class as the first step of a specialisation with Skill trees a final tweak. The Idea of having an AC change is no different to allowing players to respec a skill tree.

 

 

Thank you for proving my point. It didn't even take a page for someone to decry the cost suggested by the poster to whom I responded.

 

My pleasure

Edited June 25, 2013 by Vhaegrant

[Anzel]

1950 posts about people freaking out over what someone else's AC is. I mean really. It's none of your business. Who cares who has what AC? Who cares if they change it? It's none of your business.

[TridusSWTOR]

it gives you a character you have not leveled... that would be a new character... it does not matter if it removes the old one its still a character you did not level. An assassin is not a sorcerer, anyone moron knows this... Asking for a sorc to become and assassin is moronic. It is no different what so ever then asking Blizzard to turn for priest into a rogue in wow.

 

So it's not a new character and you are wrong. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

When you decide to post something relevant let the rest of us know.