ETA on Advanced Class change?

[LordArtemis]

Well, I prefer not to ignore folks. Even if I don't like to converse with certain forum members I still want to see and consider what they are saying. I think they deserve that much respect even if I find their behavior toxic at times.

 

I don't like to silence anyone, and ignore does just that.

 

Other than directly insulting others I can handle folks that have strong opinions. There are 4 folks in this forum that I feel are actual trolls and I will not converse with them...but they still have something to contribute.

 

Besides, there is always a chance that a person will change. I have to be mature enough to accept that person back into the fold and not hold their past against them.

 

It's pretty much how I deal with situations like this. Don't interact but do not move to silence.

Edited June 25, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Aries_cz]

Imperial: Powertech, Marauder, Sniper, Sorcerer

Republic: Commando, Guardian, Scoundrel, Shadow

I play the same way, just without Marauder and Sniper, I foun I do not like those classes. I grinded Sniper to level 50 (it was way back before RotHC) to complete the story, but now I rerolled him as Operative, much more fun. And I discarded my Marauder on Balmorra, as I think that single saber warrior fills his story role much better.

 

If I ever wanted to play Shadow, I would roll another consular, as I like all stories.

[Ratajack]

In all fairness so did cross class armor appearance, which they very clearly dictated was against their design intent and would never be allowed. They wanted a players class to be visually represented by gear.

 

That, of course, is no longer the case.

 

Just something to point out.

 

You are correct. However, I will point out again that there is a vast difference between a cosmetic change and one that affects fundamental game play mechanics, such as a class change would.

[Ratajack]

It is not a new class, it is not P2W. You can keep repeating both of those until the game grinds to a halt but neither will ever be true.

 

We can assume you will happily accept it if the game is changed to allow it, because if the devs (the people who matter) make the change, that will be how the game will work and it won't matter how you see it.

 

We all know what happens when you assume.

[RTCBrad]

BAD BAD BAD idea, if you want a new char re roll, changing your AC isn't like re speccing it's like getting a new lvl 55 for money, P2W.

[Ratajack]

ah, so it would unlock gunslinger but NOT the sniper? in that case, I'll have to say pass. one of the reasons to allow for AC change is for people who don't enjoy repeating the story... not to repeat the story.

 

I like the general idea, just not implementation you are proposing, the way I understand it. even with my adjustment its still not something I would personally prefer.

 

(when I say mirror classes, I mean faction mirrors. they are not identical, but differences are mainly cosmetic, rather than mechanical)

 

in general though, the more I think about it, the more I have to agree with Vhaegrant. his views very much match mine. but like I said - I view class as base class. I don't view AC as a separate unique class. separate unique playstyle, yes, but so are the specs within any single AC. separate unique playstyles, with unique abilities, distinct rotations etc. which is why I honestly don't see the difference between spec switch and AC switch other than arbitrary - no you cannot do it. to me its on the same level as which species can play which class restriction. its there at first but it can be unlocked and then it doesn't matter anymore.

 

 

Imagine that. A suggestion that does not meet the exact criteria you want, and you dismiss it as not good enough. There's a shock.

[Anzel]

How do we have over 1900 replies to this thread and now word from EA? And why in the world are people so worried about this? It's none of your business if someone switches their AC. It has nothing to do with you.

[Vhaegrant]

it is a class change. You are getting a class YOU DID NOT LEVEL at max level. That is a pay to win option. It does not matter how you see it the devs (the people who matter) see it as different classes.

 

You did level a class to max level though and you are definately not getting an additional character. This should balance out any feelings of exclusivity some players seem so attached to. I appreciate there are many players out there that don't have an abundance of free time and I'm quite happy to discuss the potential to open up options that allow them a little more flexibility in how they play the game. It really has no impact on me personally what so ever. I can't help but wonder why you feel so threatened by this suggestion?

 

 

ON your PT vs Merc idea... a PT is a melee class regardless of what tree you sec and merc is a ranged class regardless of how you spec. That is a fundamental play style change. If you have ever played a melee class you would know it takes a much more attentive person to play one then it takes to play a ranged class. Merc and PTs do not play anything remotely alike.

 

You may have missed my earlier post. I have played all the classes (or their mirror). I class myself as an average player able to get through most content of suitable level and equipped for it. It is not a difficult swap between melee and ranged, any more than it is between a change in role from tanking to DPS or DPS to healing. Learn the basics and you are set. This may be less relevant if you are trying to get a position in a top end raiding group or ranked PvP team, but lets be honest there are many more hoops required for them to jump through and the most important part is whether the player is actually capable or not. That is easily demonstrated in game by running a HM FP or two with them.

 

 

The story excuse is such a pathetic one. This is one of the only MMOs that actually has multiple stories. So just claiming you have different stories so that is your class is ignorant at best. What defines the class is HOW it plays and no 2 ACs play the exact same.

 

Please remember that not every one that comes to SWTOR has come from an MMO background. There are many reasons for playing, because they liked KOTOR, because they want to play the same game as their friends, because they are fans of Star Wars. None of these reasons predicts a vast knowledge of the roles you can be expected to play in an MMO.

Those gamers with a strong sense of roleplaying also have a tendancy to place story at the forefront of character selection. Given the way in which Bioware constructed the class structure (primarily one of limited resource to create multiple classes that other MMOs offered while keeping the number of individual stories to a managable level).

The Story and way in which you identify with your character is not pathetic and is very real, just look at the lengths and expense some players will goto to get their character looking how they want them to.

 

From your tone and the points you make it strikes me you don't focus on the story so much, you are a pure mechanics kind of person, which is fine, but it's not the only way of looking at the game and I would ask you to try and be respectful of the view point of others.

[Jeweledleah]

Well, I prefer not to ignore folks. Even if I don't like to converse with certain forum members I still want to see and consider what they are saying. I think they deserve that much respect even if I find their behavior toxic at times.

 

I don't like to silence anyone, and ignore does just that.

 

Other than directly insulting others I can handle folks that have strong opinions. There are 4 folks in this forum that I feel are actual trolls and I will not converse with them...but they still have something to contribute.

 

Besides, there is always a chance that a person will change. I have to be mature enough to accept that person back into the fold and not hold their past against them.

 

It's pretty much how I deal with situations like this. Don't interact but do not move to silence.

 

you are a more patient person than I am, then.

 

ignore doesn't silence someone, IMO, they can still keep speaking. all it does is saves me time from reading more insults, twisted words, baseless claims and accusations, etc.

 

I'm actually considering adding ratajack to my ignore as well, after all. because I guess "i'm done discussing anything with you" is apparently not enough. some people have trouble taking "no" for an answer and I'm too old and too tired of trying to be fair, when i'm not given the same courtesy.

[Vhaegrant]

Yea, I mean let me give an example of how this might work.

 

Lets say you have two characters....a Smuggler/Gunslinger, level 55 and a Smuggler/Scoundrel, level 15.

 

Note, the scoundrel level is just an arbitrary point...there is no limit on level as far as the change is concerned. Also, they can be on the same server, different servers, doesn't matter....

 

So, you have leveled a Smuggler up all the way to 55 in the Gunslinger AC. Your finished, and when you finish you unlock the ability to purchase a legacy Gunslinger unlock.

 

You pay for the unlock, and then you can log in your Scoundrel and change it's AC to a Gunslinger. You have a cooldown naturally...perhaps say one week.

 

I'm not sure if there should be limits on how many times you can switch....you can't switch back to Scoundrel though, until you level a Scoundrel to max level.

 

So there you are. That is how I think this option would work. A legacy unlock is an interesting idea IMO.

 

An interesting suggestion but I feel it misses the main reason for having an option enabled to change the Advanced Class.

 

If you have already levelled a character to maximum level as a Gunslinger I see no reason why I would want to play a second smuggler as a Gunslinger. You would naturally choose Scoundrel, if at this point you don't like the Advanced Class choice you'd just abandon it. Changing it to Gunslinger would be a weird choice as you already have a level 55 Gunslinger waiting to be played. Not to mention the only way to get the second character back to its original state of Scoundrel would be to level a third character to maximum level as a Scoundrel. I would imagine if you didn't like the class enough the first time and wanted to swap out you aren't going to survive the second time either.

 

My suggestion tries to address the needs of a gamer who has less playing time than seems to be considered the norm, and a lot less experience at what they can expect from late-end game play.

 

You want to play as a Bounty Hunter so you select the Powertech AC. Things go swimmingly in the early levels and you get to that point where you are getting close to a full rotation and you find you just don't like being a Tank/ Melee DPS. At this point you have probably invested a few months worth of gameplay and time in a guild. That's quite a lot of investment to just shelve it and start fresh, especially if you already have friends in end game content wanting you to catch up.

So you look for an option to keep your character and experience the other side of the coin, the Healer/ Ranged DPS of the Mercenary.

Within the scope of the story both are still Bounty Hunters, they just have a slightly different focus. As long as there is no ability to use the abilities from both classes at the same time there is no dramatic power shift. If there is a suitable lockout period (I only picked a time frame of one week as I liked the Fast Show and can't help but say 'This Week I are be mostly playing as a Powertech') it minimises any form of abuse for AC swapping as currently seems to exist in PvP with spec resetting on the fly.

 

The prime function of an AC change is to allow a player to dabble in the abilities and specs of the other AC on the way up through the levels (considering this I may have set my costs a little high but they are easily set depending on how much a player base would/ would not be willing to pay, I largely went on how much it currently costs to unlock a new species you haven't already levelled to 50).

 

Your suggestion would mean to select a Mercenary I would have to level one to 55 and to select a Powertech I would need to level one to 55. It is really just another way of saying level the other AC to max. I can understand the sentiment of players that take this line as nobody likes to see their efforts lessened or their skill set taken as easy to master. But at the end of the day you still have the advantage of multiple characters and all the bonuses that brings with it, more inventory space, more earning potential from repeating dailies, more support to your guild as you can run OPs multiple times (locked out on one character swap to the other), more craft skills available to you.

 

There is the small advantage that a DPS focused player could get one set of endgame gear and use it to play as Ranged DPS or Melee DPS. You'd still need a separate set of gear for Tanking, Healing (can cope with the same set of gear as a dpser but I would imagine end game would prefer more alacrity and power than DPS would want) and PVP. So time still needs to be spent

Edited June 25, 2013 by Vhaegrant

[LordArtemis]

You are correct. However, I will point out again that there is a vast difference between a cosmetic change and one that affects fundamental game play mechanics, such as a class change would.

 

I agree, you are correct of course. The two things are very different. In that context one could say that the current dev staff has perhaps reversed direction on many of the original design intents and restrictions that are more cosmetic in nature but have so far not changed any of the major mechanical designs of the game, with the exception of the implementation of the F2P/market model.

[LordArtemis]

An interesting suggestion but I feel it misses the main reason for having an option enabled to change the Advanced Class.

 

If you have already levelled a character to maximum level as a Gunslinger I see no reason why I would want to play a second smuggler as a Gunslinger. You would naturally choose Scoundrel, if at this point you don't like the Advanced Class choice you'd just abandon it. Changing it to Gunslinger would be a weird choice as you already have a level 55 Gunslinger waiting to be played. Not to mention the only way to get the second character back to its original state of Scoundrel would be to level a third character to maximum level as a Scoundrel. I would imagine if you didn't like the class enough the first time and wanted to swap out you aren't going to survive the second time either.

 

My suggestion tries to address the needs of a gamer who has less playing time than seems to be considered the norm, and a lot less experience at what they can expect from late-end game play.

 

You want to play as a Bounty Hunter so you select the Powertech AC. Things go swimmingly in the early levels and you get to that point where you are getting close to a full rotation and you find you just don't like being a Tank/ Melee DPS. At this point you have probably invested a few months worth of gameplay and time in a guild. That's quite a lot of investment to just shelve it and start fresh, especially if you already have friends in end game content wanting you to catch up.

So you look for an option to keep your character and experience the other side of the coin, the Healer/ Ranged DPS of the Mercenary.

Within the scope of the story both are still Bounty Hunters, they just have a slightly different focus. As long as there is no ability to use the abilities from both classes at the same time there is no dramatic power shift. If there is a suitable lockout period (I only picked a time frame of one week as I liked the Fast Show and can't help but say 'This Week I are be mostly playing as a Powertech') it minimises any form of abuse for AC swapping as currently seems to exist in PvP with spec resetting on the fly.

 

The prime function of an AC change is to allow a player to dabble in the abilities and specs of the other AC on the way up through the levels (considering this I may have set my costs a little high but they are easily set depending on how much a player base would/ would not be willing to pay, I largely went on how much it currently costs to unlock a new species you haven't already levelled to 50).

 

Your suggestion would mean to select a Mercenary I would have to level one to 55 and to select a Powertech I would need to level one to 55. It is really just another way of saying level the other AC to max. I can understand the sentiment of players that take this line as nobody likes to see their efforts lessened or their skill set taken as easy to master. But at the end of the day you still have the advantage of multiple characters and all the bonuses that brings with it, more inventory space, more earning potential from repeating dailies, more support to your guild as you can run OPs multiple times (locked out on one character swap to the other), more craft skills available to you.

 

Yes, but it is only one suggestion I made (a variation on someone elses suggestion of course) in a group of suggestions, the one you mentioned in this post included. Your option has been added to the suggested option list as well.

 

The suggestion I pose is in no way meant to stand as more or less important or supplant another. It is only meant as another option, one that folks will like or not.

 

I do not have the final word on the matter. I welcome more discussion to follow, and I understand your view.

[branmakmuffin]

We all know what happens when you assume.

Well, Hizoka said that the devs have the only view that matters. Therefore, if the the devs changed the game to allow AC swap, that would be the only view that mattered. According to Hizoka.

[TridusSWTOR]

thats no different then saying they should just give a max level toon of every class but you do not have to take it.

 

Giving people a new max level character is not a quality of life change its a pay to win option.

 

The sad thing is you guys do not know the difference in quality of life option and giving someone the option of skipping the game. Quality of life like making a UI change so something is easier to see, that is far and away different then giving someone a class they have never played at max level.

 

Who wants a new max level character?

 

Please quote someone that said they want that. Oh wait you can't and you are moving goal-post to try to help what litle argument you thought you had. You failed.

 

When you level a toon up to 55 and change AC's, does that add a fresh new level 55 character in your character slot for the account? Please answer this.

[Hizoka]

Who wants a new max level character?

 

Please quote someone that said they want that. Oh wait you can't and you are moving goal-post to try to help what litle argument you thought you had. You failed.

 

When you level a toon up to 55 and change AC's, does that add a fresh new level 55 character in your character slot for the account? Please answer this.

 

it gives you a character you have not leveled... that would be a new character... it does not matter if it removes the old one its still a character you did not level. An assassin is not a sorcerer, anyone moron knows this... Asking for a sorc to become and assassin is moronic. It is no different what so ever then asking Blizzard to turn for priest into a rogue in wow.

[TridusSWTOR]

Allowing class changes would still allow a single character to fill all three roles, which goes directly against the devs design intents.

 

but you fail to mention the time frame of how long and how often they would be able to fill all three roles. It's natural you avoid this little fact because it debunks everything you are trying to say.

 

Thus far, as the poster said before me, there would be timed lock outs/higher cost to avoid turning it into a field respec option and more of a character create type cost.

[branmakmuffin]

it gives you a character you have not leveled... that would be a new character.

And since you leveled the character, it's not a new character. Glad you are finally seeing the light and are letting go of your anger.

[Kilora]

it gives you a character you have not leveled... that would be a new character... it does not matter if it removes the old one its still a character you did not level. An assassin is not a sorcerer, anyone moron knows this... Asking for a sorc to become and assassin is moronic. It is no different what so ever then asking Blizzard to turn for priest into a rogue in wow.

 

Except, we've shown time and time again how it IS different.

Assasin --> Sorc is NOT the equivalent of Priest --> Rogue

 

On top of that -- it doesn't matter if WoW did it or not. This isn't WoW. We have classes and advanced classes. We have story arcs and companions, as well as numerous spells, shared based on BASE CLASS. We even have a shared tree. The same is not true at all of any two classes in WoW.

 

Look at FFXI. Mutli-job classes. Rift -- weird hybrid things. Every MMO has the right to do whatever they please. Devs have already stated this is something they are considering, so it ISN'T moronic to ask about it. If you think it is, you should probably leave the thread -- since it won't matter to you either way. You aren't being hurt if it is implemented -- and you wouldn't notice anything if it isn't ever implemented.

 

Arguing about whether or not to do it is moot. You've had 30+ pages of the same exact BS arguments from both sides. Both are spewing out arugments that hold absolutely no weight -- because they are just arguing their own personal opinion.

 

Devs will do it, or they won't. End of story. This thread wasn't meant to discuss the merits of asking for it -- although the discussion of *how* they would do it was closer to on-topic than you arguing about how other MMOs don't, so SWTOR can't /shouldn't.

[Vhaegrant]

it gives you a character you have not leveled... that would be a new character... it does not matter if it removes the old one its still a character you did not level. An assassin is not a sorcerer, anyone moron knows this... Asking for a sorc to become and assassin is moronic. It is no different what so ever then asking Blizzard to turn for priest into a rogue in wow.

 

Except that the Assassin and Sorcerer are united by a shared story, shared class buff, shared items (class restricted armour), shared core abilities, and share one of three skill trees.

 

While as far as I recall there are no class quests or core abilities that the Priest and Rogue share. It has been six years since I last played though. I seem to recall at best only 1-2 specific class quests not sure if they remain in the game and they usually focused on gaining a particular item, ability or pet.

 

If you approach the game from a purely mechanics orientated viewpoint the classes are a little more distinct. If you care to invest a little time in the story though they are very close.

 

All a Powertech really needs to do to become a Mercenary is pick up a second hand blaster and stand back a bit. Hardly earth shattering. A Sorcerer? put down the single sabre and pick up a double bladed one, instant Assassin. In some respect the AC is defined as much by their choice of weapons, and there are many players asking for that option to be added.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Vhaegrant

[TridusSWTOR]

as long as mirror AC count ( like they do for class buffs - which are shared by both AC's btw, further adding evidence of AC not being a separate class), then I can see it as possible compromise. not my favorite option for several reasons, but it IS a compromise that among other things, takes into account people who prefer not to replay the same story twice.

 

Yup I agree 1000% with this post. It has to offer some incentive in order for it to be useful. A cross faction use being applied would be a good compromise and a lowered price cost, probably a shorter lock out timer as well.

 

It is not the best way to go about those things, it's a good suggestion nonetheless.

[Vhaegrant]

Devs will do it, or they won't. End of story.

 

Very true. Part of this is based on demand for a feature and the reasoning behind it.

 

I would be very interested to see if the metrics support my assumption that a large part of the player base is made up from casual players that find it hard enough to level one character (although far easier in SWTOR than many other MMOs I have encountered) and leave the game once they realise they do not enjoy the experience they have chosen rather than reroll from start.

 

Only the devs have access to this sort of depth of information though.

[Hizoka]

Except, we've shown time and time again how it IS different.

Assasin --> Sorc is NOT the equivalent of Priest --> Rogue

 

how can you say it is not???? Give a real answer not that garbage of they share the same story BS.

 

A sorc is a ranged caster DPS with the ability to heal, and assassin is a melee DPS with teh ability to stealth and tank. They are complete opposites in terms of play style and mechanics. They have nothing in common other then their story, they are different classes.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Hizoka

[Kilora]

how can you say it is not???? Give a real answer not that garbage of they share the same story BS.

 

A sorc is a ranged caster DPS with the ability to heal, and assassin is a melee DPS with teh ability to stealth and tank. They are complete opposites in terms of play style and mechanics. They have nothing in common other then their story, they are different classes.

Assasin --> Sorc is NOT the equivalent of Priest --> Rogue

 

Assasin + Sorc

• Share a significant number of spells
  
• Wear the same armor
  
• Same primary stat
  
• Similar secondary stats (for DPS)
  
• Same bass class, story, companions, buff
  

 

Priest + Rogue

• Share no spells
  
• Different armor
  
• 100% different primary stat
  
• 100% different secondary stats
  
• Absolutely no similarities whatsoever
  

Lets take it one step further. Another WoW Example --

Mage + Warlock

• Ranged DPS
  
• Mana as resource
  
• Same primary stats
  
• Same secondary stats
  
• Similar spells
  
• Same armor
  

So -- why are Mage + Warlock different classes? Would you accept a swap between those?

 

They DO share the same story. That is the entire point -- the reason most people who WANT an AC change actually want it. Because they don't want to re-play the same lackluster story to be able to enjoy the character they have.

 

But, as I said -- none of your arguments hold any weight -- nor do any of the other sides areguments. Devs have stated they are considering it -- and it will likely be added to the game, but with no timetable or estimates. THAT is the end of story.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Kilora

[Hizoka]

Assasin --> Sorc is NOT the equivalent of Priest --> Rogue

 

Assasin + Sorc

• Share a significant number of spells
  
• Wear the same armor
  
• Same primary stat
  
• Similar secondary stats (for DPS)
  
• Same bass class, story, companions, buff
  

 

Priest + Rogue

• Share no spells
  
• Different armor
  
• 100% different primary stat
  
• 100% different secondary stats
  
• Absolutely no similarities whatsoever
  

Lets take it one step further. Another WoW Example --

Mage + Warlock

• Ranged DPS
  
• Mana as resource
  
• Same primary stats
  
• Same secondary stats
  
• Similar spells
  
• Same armor
  

So -- why are Mage + Warlock different classes? Would you accept a swap between those?

 

They DO share the same story. That is the entire point -- the reason most people who WANT an AC change actually want it. Because they don't want to re-play the same lackluster story to be able to enjoy the character they have.

 

But, as I said -- none of your arguments hold any weight -- nor do any of the other sides areguments. Devs have stated they are considering it -- and it will likely be added to the game, but with no timetable or estimates. THAT is the end of story.

 

ok hunters have every buff in wow does that make them the same as every class??? warriors and DKs share teh same gear and stats are they the same class??? priest warlocks and mages use the same gear are they they same class? Monks and rogues share the same stats are they the same class?? The answer is no. Assassins and sorcs are not the same class... the just of what they want is they want to level one class and get another one free because they are entitled lazy piles of crap that have never had to earn something. If they add a class change to this game they might as well shut it down because they will lose nearly all of their subbers and this game needs subbers to stay open.

[Kilora]

the just of what they want is they want to level one class and get another one free because they are entitled lazy piles of crap that have never had to earn something. If they add a class change to this game they might as well shut it down because they will lose nearly all of their subbers and this game needs subbers to stay open.

 

Right now, you should remove yourself from the forums and take a break. Possibly seek help.

 

Do NOT assume you know why people want this. I'd appreciate it because I HATE playing my juggernaut. Then again, I may hate Mara just as much. I'm also being smart, and rolling the opposite AC on the opposite faction -- so, different AC and different storyline.

 

Secondly, stop calling people entitled and lazy just because you disagree with someone. You're acting like a 5-year-old telling other people they don't deserve anything because you don't want them to have it. Grow up, please.

 

So -- should I not be able to rename my toon? What about purchasing Cartel Packs and selling them for credits? Isn't that "lazy and entitled"? Was asking for field-respec lazy and entitled? Quick Travel?

 

Just because YOU don't like something, doesn't make it bad. I've seen absolutely NO evidence that a significant number of people would leave over this. NONE. You making up wild stories isn't helping your case.

 

 

IF you can have an actual discussion on the merits of AC Change, I will continue a discussion with you. Merely saying "they're different classes!!!!111" isn't an argument -- because what the Devs have already said shows that this particular point does NOT matter to them. There is no evidence whatsoever that this would have a negative impact on the game.