ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Hizoka]

And how is changing ACs any different then changing up your spec/soul in any other game?

Paladin = Paladin abilities + holy/ret/prot abilities + skill tree abilities

Trooper = Trooper abilities + commando/vanguard abilities + skill tree abilities

 

Now before you tell me that Holy Ret and Prot are the skill trees, think back to when you hit level 10, you HAD to pick one of them so you would gain certain abilities that the other 2 could not, but you still learned your paladin abilities.

Its the same thing.

 

dude it has been explained to you more then 25 times.

 

Changing from ret to prot for a paladin in wow like the same as changing a powertech from shield tech to advanced prototype.

 

Sorry but it seems you are just not smart enough to get that in your head. You want a class change... going from a vanguard to a commando is the same as going from a warrior to a hunter.

 

Sorry if you simply are incapable of grasping it but just because you lack the ability to understand it doesn't make it untrue.

 

If you go back before panadaland in wow they had the talent trees they were setup just like TOR has them. Again before you open your mouth and prove you have no idea what you are talking about. go learn how wow had done things for the better part of a decade instead of showing how little you know about it.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Hizoka

[TridusSWTOR]

I absolutely hate this idea, especially if it only costs $20 after the first time (like the OP suggested). If they do it at all, make it $100+ each time someone wants to change AC.

 

This way, you'd have to really and truly want to change your AC to do it. Rerolling a different AC would still be a viable option because not everyone would be willing to spend $100 (including me).

 

But if they were to come around and say that you can change AC for cheap or even free, then I would quit this game and never look back. Would make 2 of my characters feel worthless, and completely kill my incentive to play anymore alts (my favorite part of this game).

 

Not only that, but there would be sooo many noobs running around who dont know how to play their AC. Most of the ACs are VERY different from each other. This part seems like common sense to anyone who's played the game for more than a few hours...

 

We were all noobs once and had to learn our class. All you have stated is that you want to control how others play the game even though you have the option to ignore it.

[PeterTLJr]

dude it has been explained to you more then 25 times.

 

Changing from ret to prot for a paladin in wow like the same as changing a powertech from shield tech to advanced prototype.

 

Sorry but it seems you are just not smart enough to get that in your head. You want a class change... going from a vanguard to a commando is the same as going from a warrior to a hunter.

 

Sorry if you simply are incapable of grasping it but just because you lack the ability to understand it doesn't make it untrue.

 

If you go back before panadaland in wow they had the talent trees they were setup just like TOR has them. Again before you open your mouth and prove you have no idea what you are talking about. go learn how wow had done things for the better part of a decade instead of showing how little you know about it.

 

a class change is going from trooper to smuggler. an ac change is going from vanguard to commando. big difference. "sorry but it seems you are just not smart enough to get that in your head".

Edited June 21, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[Hizoka]

IF EA was dumb enough ot just give out max level classes, why would they go though the effort of double XP??

 

THey want people leveling so they are not gonna just give out max level character. No matter what you say your AC is your class that is how the game is set up and anyone with half a brain knows it.

[Ratajack]

A counter argument that points out a feature that is being asked for doesn't already exist is kind of pointless

 

Besides the fact that both Powertechs and Mercenaries do share so many aspects as I mentioned in my original post.

A shared story.

A shared core ability set.

A shared class buff.

One of three skill trees shared.

The first 10 levels shared.

 

This closeness and amount of sharing is going to place it in peoples minds that AC swapping should be no more difficult than changing a Skill tree.

 

Then why do so many people understand that AC's are different classes, even without the dev statement that they are fundamentally different class designs? Why do so many people see AC changes as what they are, a CLASS CHANGE.

 

Could it be because the powertech is a melee damage/ tanking character and the mercenary is a ranged DPS/heals, or that the assassin is a melee DPS/tank class with stealth capabilities and the sorcerer is a ranged DPS/heals class? The fact is that no two AC's play anything alike, even if they share the same story line.

 

In this game you choose your story at character creation and you can choose your class at level 10.

[Grayseven]

What you do not comprehend is that a powertech is not the same class as a mercenary. So getting a mercenary at anything but level 1 is a new class you have NEVER PLAYED. You want a new class for no reason other then childish want. Sorry if you simply lack the intelligence needed to understand it but that is the fact of this game. There are 8 classes on each side 2 classes each share the same story. You need different weapons and a different skill set to play each class.

 

A guardian is not a sentinel any more then an assassin is a mercenary. You are just not capable of grasping that fact because you want something you did not earn due to being lazy and childish.

 

It is painfully obvious that you have no ability with reading comprehension, and still you throw insults around simply because you have no argument other than "I don't like it".

 

You think that AC's are classes. I think they aren't. I have said why I think they aren't. You've said nothing but "BW said so".

 

While you need different weapons and skill sets to play each class, you do NOT need different weapons and skill sets to play the other AC within a class.

 

And since your reading comprehension is so flawed, I'll reiterate the fact that I HAVE played each AC. I have (now) 14 characters on two servers. I have repeatedly stated that I think AC change should be allowed with an unlock similar to the race unlocks. In your childish and unintelligent attempts at insult, you failed to comprehend that I do NOT want AC change willy-nilly, but set up in such a way as to prevent constant hopping back and forth similar to what we can do now with spec changes.

 

Since it is painfully obvious that you are nothing more than a vitriolic little troll who can't come up with any response except insults and are incapable of debate, you are no longer worth my time. When you grow up and learn to debate instead of throw temper tantrums...maybe. I have doubts that can ever happen.

[Ratajack]

This is a good point. So what if there was a set limit to how many times you could change AC's? or are you one of those extremist that won't accept anything other than no AC change at all? I'm curious.

 

There is already a set limit on the number of times you can change your class. That number is ZERO. I see no reason to raise or remove that restriction and I am in favor of leaving that restriction exactly as it is. Given the numbers of people who want to change their class and are on these forums clamoring for the current restrictions to be lifted, I have no doubt that even if class changes were allowed and restricted in number, these forums would be full of people clamoring for "just one more change" and then "one more" after that, and so on.

 

That being said, there have been some suggestions made that I think would be reasonable compromises. The only two I would consider to be reasonable restrictions which would address most of the concerns of those against allowing class changes would revert the character to level 10 (allowing the character to keep all items they have acquired, including those that may no longer be obtainable in game and all companions, crew skills, etc. ) and be limited to one time max, possibly 2 changes.

[Savej]

dude it has been explained to you more then 25 times.

 

Changing from ret to prot for a paladin in wow like the same as changing a powertech from shield tech to advanced prototype.

 

Sorry but it seems you are just not smart enough to get that in your head. You want a class change... going from a vanguard to a commando is the same as going from a warrior to a hunter.

 

Sorry if you simply are incapable of grasping it but just because you lack the ability to understand it doesn't make it untrue.

 

If you go back before panadaland in wow they had the talent trees they were setup just like TOR has them. Again before you open your mouth and prove you have no idea what you are talking about. go learn how wow had done things for the better part of a decade instead of showing how little you know about it.

 

What about tree druid to bear druid to cat druid to owl druid?

 

Hunter vs Warrior? LOL. They use completely different stats, different energy, different (not vaguely similar) weapons and, of course, tactics. Commando vs Vanguard is -not- a huge leap at all, just swap out a cosmetically different weapon and you're g2g. Wow also has a class called "druid" - bear druid, cat druid , owl druid, tree druid - all played completely differently from one another, players could flip their spec around (and spec changes were available on day 1 or near day 1 even if dual spec wasn't) and be a tank, ranged dps, melee/stealth dps or healer. If you want to talk about Wow I don't think you have an argument against AC changes.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Savej

[Ratajack]

No harm done in allowing those who don't have the time to reroll to switch AC, people will just argue against anything. Stick it on a 30 day cooldown, slap a hefty CC tag on it. Profit/QQ solved.

 

There is NOBODY who doesn't "have the time to reroll". If they have the time to play, they have the time to reroll. There is no requirement for a character to reach max level in a day, or even a week or a month. It might take a while to reach max level, but everybody has the time to reroll.

[Ratajack]

Why do you keep resorting back to this? You have stated this so many times now, and here is whats wrong with it.

1. Not many people knew they picked the wrong AC at level 10-15, you dont even gain any major abilities until the later levels.

2. Not many people are going to pay to have their character pushed down to level 10. So BW/EA wont make much money off it.

3. It require a whole lot of work on BWs part to put in something that actually resets your levels.

 

Edit: Also they would have said by now that ACs were there own class. At one point they were, until the cartel market hit. If they can make AC changes happen and make money off it, I bet they will. Removing your base class will most likely not happen, as your base class is your ENTIRE story, your ACs do not have a story of there own.

 

You agree that AC are different classes. The fact that the devs have not come out and contradicted their statement regarding AC being fundamentally different class designs means that they do NOT HAVE to come out and re-confirm that statement, as it were. It would be nice if they did, but they do NOT HAVE to as their last statement made it clear that they see AC's as fundamentally different class designs.

 

The introduction of the cartel market in way in negates this statement either. The fact that a cartel market exists in no way makes AC's any less "their own class". BW may decide to make a quick buck, at the cost of all the subs they will lose if they allow class changes, or they may decide to maintain the status quo, which is arguably better for their bottom line. As I said before, they have those that want to change their class still playing and paying thinking that class changes are going to be added, and they have those against class changes still playing and paying because they have not implemented class changes.

 

Which is better for BW, keep everyone playing and paying by maintaining the status quo--no class changes, or allowing class changes to make a quick buck and losing subs?

[Ratajack]

Ok but why must it be this difficult? Why cant it just be a simple AC change? Why should BW go above and beyond for something that should have been put in the game to begin with...

There is absolutely nothing different about changing ACs in this game and switching Specs or Souls or whatever its called in other games.

 

Ive been reading just about every post, and even the people against AC changes are OK with allowing ac changes but with penalties and restrictions..why? ultimately its still an AC change, they just want to make this a bigger deal then it is.

 

If they want to put restrictions on it then GOOD, I want restrictions, but I shouldnt be penalized and pushed back levels, or have to redo the same crap I did the first time around on the same character.

 

Not only that, people actually will PAY for this, this game will make MONEY, to do more stuff with it. So I dont see it being a negative impact.

 

This feature would be completely optional, they shouldnt have to compensate for those who are happy with there character, you get the satisfaction of not having to spend money to change your ac.

 

 

Because you want to CHANGE YOUR CLASS, not just your spec, YOUR CLASS. No other game I have ever played has allowed you to change your class. You can change your spec, sure, but NOT YOUR CLASS. If they are going to allow class changes, it should come with a hefty price tag and that price tag should not all be dollars.

[Ratajack]

missed the point because you are in agreement with her or him.

 

my point was that (s)he CONSTANTLY insults anyone who speaks or behaves in ways that differs than her. SHE IS A TROLL. that is not a personal opinion, but fact.

 

 

but fine, i will respose to her or his moronic post.

 

the difference is quite simply : one is paying BIS gear WITHOUT DOING ANY WORK at all and the other DID do the work to EARN what he or she want. in this case that would be AC despite what you anti may say, those who want a lvl 55 AC switch DID level LVL 55 toon. the AC are just a subset of the toon. i post 3 toons that people have leveled without having choosing a AC. there is nothing "free" especially considering that players already did the work (e.g. lvl the toon to 50~55) and want aN OPTION TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO.....within the proper restriction on what they can do of course.

 

 

 

her comparison is entirely flawed and was just another daily post to insult other people.

 

 

also, how am i "entitled"?

 

entitled past participle, past tense of en·ti·tle (Verb)

 

Verb

Give (someone) a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something.

Give (something, esp. a text or work of art) a particular title.

 

by this definition, no where within my posts am i acting entitled. in fact, i would say YOU have been acting entitled, by acting like you are the spokesperson of bioware. learn to properly use the word in the correct setting if you wish to proper insult me. as it is now, i honestly just think you are moron because you are using words that you arent properly understanding it meaning. i mean, english isnt even my first language, but even i know that the way most of the ppl use the word "entitled" on thif fourm isnt using it in the proper context.it is just the defender FOTM choice word.

 

 

try again.

 

You say if you level a character to max level you DID the work?

 

I have a question for you. If you have a level 55 vanguard, did you do the work of leveling a commando to 55? NO. You leveled a different class (vanguard) to 55, not a commando. That means you did NOT do the work to entitle you to a 55 commando.

[Ratajack]

1621 posts and not a single word from Bioware.

 

That says something, doesn't it? To me, it says they have no intention of allowing class changes or changing their stance that AC's are fundamentally different class designs. They have not uttered one single peep about AC changes in over 6 months, not even a hint of a peep.

[TridusSWTOR]

There is already a set limit on the number of times you can change your class. That number is ZERO. I see no reason to raise or remove that restriction and I am in favor of leaving that restriction exactly as it is. Given the numbers of people who want to change their class and are on these forums clamoring for the current restrictions to be lifted, I have no doubt that even if class changes were allowed and restricted in number, these forums would be full of people clamoring for "just one more change" and then "one more" after that, and so on.

 

That being said, there have been some suggestions made that I think would be reasonable compromises. The only two I would consider to be reasonable restrictions which would address most of the concerns of those against allowing class changes would revert the character to level 10 (allowing the character to keep all items they have acquired, including those that may no longer be obtainable in game and all companions, crew skills, etc. ) and be limited to one time max, possibly 2 changes.

 

Why are you so against change in the first place? Without change we would still have sprint at level 14. We would still have broken speeder lanes in dormund kaas. Change isn't bad, stop labeling it to be. Change is what made a lot of QoL things that players enjoy today happen.

 

Change is better that what you are offering...which is NOTHING.

 

Who are you to tell someone how to play their character? They pay the fee per month, they get to choose, not you. Also why is an option to change AC so bad when you can have the *OPTION* not to change your AC on any of your characters. It would be like things never changed in you're world but the option would still be offered to those who want it.

 

At least admit you want to impose your own rule set on other players and that's the main justification of your argument.

[Khevar]

...

 

At least admit you want to impose your own rule set on other players and that's the main justification of your argument.

He's not trying to impose his own rules on others, he's asking for the existing rules to be maintained.

Without change we would still have sprint at level 14. We would still have broken speeder lanes in dormund kaas. Change isn't bad, stop labeling it to be. Change is what made a lot of QoL things that players enjoy today happen.

I agree, QoL changes can be excellent. Sprint from level 1, Speeders at level 1 with a legacy unlock, Rocket Boost, HK-51 unlock, +500 legacy presence unlock, all of these things make it easier to level a character.

 

But wouldn't you say that, "things that make it easier to level" and "things that eliminate the need to level at all" are vastly different types of change?

Edited June 21, 2013 by Khevar

[Hizoka]

Ok but why must it be this difficult? Why cant it just be a simple AC change? Why should BW go above and beyond for something that should have been put in the game to begin with...

There is absolutely nothing different about changing ACs in this game and switching Specs or Souls or whatever its called in other games.

 

Ive been reading just about every post, and even the people against AC changes are OK with allowing ac changes but with penalties and restrictions..why? ultimately its still an AC change, they just want to make this a bigger deal then it is.

 

If they want to put restrictions on it then GOOD, I want restrictions, but I shouldnt be penalized and pushed back levels, or have to redo the same crap I did the first time around on the same character.

 

Not only that, people actually will PAY for this, this game will make MONEY, to do more stuff with it. So I dont see it being a negative impact.

 

This feature would be completely optional, they shouldnt have to compensate for those who are happy with there character, you get the satisfaction of not having to spend money to change your ac.

you are still harping on the reason you want to change your CLASS is simply because you want it, there is no need other then you feel entitled to have a class you never leveled at max level.

 

That is no different then asking for BiS gear you did not earn. The sad thing is people who grow up never earning anything have no respect for things that must be earned. If you are handed everything simply because you cryed for it then you will have a pathetic life ahead of you. Also don't use "its a game" excuse ether, there is no reason at all you skip the game.

 

If you want a commando level a command if you want a vanguard level a vanguard. DO not level a vanguard and say you deserve a commando because they are completely different classes. They simply share the same story.

 

In wow you never change classes, you change specs. A warrior has 3 specs prot arms and fury, that is the exact same as a vanguard having shield, tactics, and assault. There are 11 classes in wow, there are 8 classes in this game. You will never see the little kid QQ in wow that they leveled a warrior now they want a paladin, yet you are doing it in this game because of childish want nothing else.

 

You even admitted that vanguard and commandos are different classes now you want to not only ignore everything else but ignore your own posts because it doesn't suit your agenda. Instead of whining that you want a fully leveled class for no reason go level it. With 0 XP boost it takes just over 2 days /played to level if you are capable of playing better then a window licker.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Hizoka

[Ratajack]

Makes me think that they are trying to figure out a way to put this feature in the game. If they were standing next to no they would have shut this thread down 100 pages ago.

 

If they were to say "No" they risk losing all those who want to change their class. If they say "yes" they risk losing all those who are against allowing class changes. If they remain silent and do not allow class changes they keep everyone playing and paying.

 

Which do you really think they are doing?

[SithKoriandr]

Because you want to CHANGE YOUR CLASS, not just your spec, YOUR CLASS. No other game I have ever played has allowed you to change your class. You can change your spec, sure, but NOT YOUR CLASS. If they are going to allow class changes, it should come with a hefty price tag and that price tag should not all be dollars.

 

Before a MMO decided to become F2P, no other MMO had ever allowed people to play free.

 

Obviously, things change.

[Ratajack]

Why are you so against change in the first place? Without change we would still have sprint at level 14. We would still have broken speeder lanes in dormund kaas. Change isn't bad, stop labeling it to be. Change is what made a lot of QoL things that players enjoy today happen.

 

Change is better that what you are offering...which is NOTHING.

 

Who are you to tell someone how to play their character? They pay the fee per month, they get to choose, not you. Also why is an option to change AC so bad when you can have the *OPTION* not to change your AC on any of your characters. It would be like things never changed in you're world but the option would still be offered to those who want it.

 

At least admit you want to impose your own rule set on other players and that's the main justification of your argument.

 

Where did I say was against any kind of change? Where did you see me oppose allowing race changes? Where did you see me oppose allowing character re-customization? Where dd you see me oppose speeder training at level 10? Where did you see me oppose sprint at level 1? Where did you see me oppose double XP weekends? Where did you see me oppose

 

 

I AM against allowing class changes. You want to change your class. Does the fact that I oppose what you want make me "against change"?

 

You must have missed the part of my post in which I stated there were a few suggestions I would consider reasonable compromises. Gee, I guess that must mean I'm open minded enough to at least consider compromise. Are you?

[SithKoriandr]

If they were to say "No" they risk losing all those who want to change their class. If they say "yes" they risk losing all those who are against allowing class changes. If they remain silent and do not allow class changes they keep everyone playing and paying.

 

Which do you really think they are doing?

 

Those who say they'll quit and follow through with it, if AC changes are made available, is likely as small a number as those who said they'd quit if SGR was put in the game

[Ratajack]

Before a MMO decided to become F2P, no other MMO had ever allowed people to play free.

 

Obviously, things change.

 

Yes, things can change. The fact that something can be changed does not mean it SHOULD be changed. Some things do not need to be changed. Not allowing class changes is one of these, IMO.

[Ratajack]

Those who say they'll quit and follow through with it, if AC changes are made available, is likely as small a number as those who said they'd quit if SGR was put in the game

 

I think you will find you are sadly mistaken. I think you and BW will find many more players will walk away from any game that allows class changes than will walk away from a game that offers SGR.

[PeterTLJr]

Yes, things can change. The fact that something can be changed does not mean it SHOULD be changed. Some things do not need to be changed. Not allowing class changes is one of these, IMO.

 

I'm against class change as well.

But AC change is something else.

[Hizoka]

I'm against class change as well.

But AC change is something else.

 

even you admitted your AC is your class. now you are just pretending that never happened?

[PeterTLJr]

even you admitted your AC is your class. now you are just pretending that never happened?

 

I dont remember saying that. I may have though.