Ratajack Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Are we really going to have a round two? Why are you so ignorant to not understand that your Advanced Class is infact your class. Bioware already stated that it won't happen:jawa_eek: In World of Warcraft they had 3 talents, and so do we. The three talents in WoW is played differently, and so is it in SW:TOR. Just stop yourself mate, you're beating a old dead goat even more. There is nothing to come for. As I said in my post in your thread. I personally wouldn't care if you could change advanced class, since I have a sniper which I would like to become an Operative. But Bioware said it won't happen, and in all honesty, I would prefer if they would work on something way more important then sparing you the time to reroll your char. He knows that your Advance class is fundamentally your class. He has even admitted it, although I'm sure he wishes he hadn't as it keeps coming back to bite him in the backside.' Yes BW has said your advance class is fundamentally your class, I live with that, I play my classes, if I dont like the Ac, I reroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I would like to remind everyone that the most recent comment from the new Dev staff indicates that they have been talking seriously about allowing AC change again and it is likely to happen in the future. So that could point to the idea that the feeling on permanent AC choice may be changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Echo Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 This. Why do people think it's okay to switch classes? They really screwed it up when they made the AC's. I knew this would happen. It was however, the only way to make sure each class had it's own story and you could play it from two perspectives. Because the warcraft generation of kids online now days has made just about every other thing that would have been unthinkable back in the days of MUDs, UO and EQ1 -- now a reality. Its just a matter of time before there will be a button you can press to get max level and full best in slot gear.... Because if 51% of the paying players want this, they will get it because Bioware and EA are here to MAKE MONEY. Not satisfy what one single vocal whiner wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilora Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Because the warcraft generation of kids online now days has made just about every other thing that would have been unthinkable back in the days of MUDs, UO and EQ1 -- now a reality. Its just a matter of time before there will be a button you can press to get max level and full best in slot gear.... Because if 51% of the paying players want this, they will get it because Bioware and EA are here to MAKE MONEY. Not satisfy what one single vocal whiner wants. Slippery Slope Fallacy. As for the second half -- wrong. If 51% of the paying players want it, and 40% of the paying players will LEAVE because something is implemented -- BW won't implement it. They are balancing on a thin line. Maximize profits while keeping people in the game, so they can further maximize profits. If they really think the majority of players would enjoy something, and a small minority would leave (significantly less than 20%) -- they will put it in-game. And the game will not be harmed because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeperi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Being reset back down to level 10 is just flat out stupid. The work that would involve such a thing would be so crazy that it wouldnt pay off because not many people would pay to be reset back down. Switching Acs is no different then switching specs, you still have to learn how to play it. Not sure how long I can carry on a conversation with someone who's first reaction to something I say is to characterize it as "stupid". But I will try. Switching AC's is totally different than switching specs- one cannot respec from tank to healer, but one could switch roles from tank to healer by switching AC's. Roles are important in defining the game. You totally blew off that part which indicates to me you want more of a sandbox type game than what SW currently is now. There are already plenty of those, feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeperi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 This sounds fine on paper, but an EXP cost is the worst way to handle the situation, especially one capable of level regression. Even compounded by the extreme you proposed. Going from 40 to 10 is more severe than you'd think, because the ability to get back to 40 is greatly hindered due to a complete lack of story and side mission content. This system would cost more subs and players than its worth, especially since there are other methods (cooldowns, large credit costs, and cartel coin costs) that wouldn't be detrimental to the players game enjoyment. If the degree of freedom in switching ac's in swtor were even a meaningful factor in people maintaining their subs, my suggested system would result in a net gain of subs retained because, after all, it allows for a greater degree of freedom in switching ac's than we have now. So the premise of your argument against my suggestion is null. I don't see how forcing a toon back to 10 is detrimental to a players enjoyment. If they don't like the ac enough to level the toon back up, they probably shouldn't be switching to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeperi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I have to say, this is a particularly self-centered view of things. As an MMO, people interact with one another. People rely on one another. People contribute to others, or work against others. If you play the game completely solo, on a PvE server, unflagged, and don't ninja area objectives, you're not affecting others. But every time you do a flashpoint, a heroic, an operation, or operate in an area with other players, you DO. But it is silly to think that a changing a players advanced class could NEVER affect another player. Most things we do affect other players in some way. To think otherwise is to be unaware of others. Add to the italics, every time the player buys anything or sells anything on the GTN they are affecting other players. Those are just examples. It is one big system we are all a part of and when you open up the degree to which the components that make up that system can change, you add a degree of instability to it. Also, this game is in a huge gray area, not totally single player, not totally multi-player, not totally pve, not totally pvp, not yet a sandox. It doesn't know what it is. Any strong move in any of those directions will cause the game to become more of 'that' and less of the other things. One of the reasons so many of us keep our subs is because we all hope the game goes in the direction we want it to. I can't see how a strong move in any of these directions helps swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterTLJr Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 He knows that your Advance class is fundamentally your class. He has even admitted it, although I'm sure he wishes he hadn't as it keeps coming back to bite him in the backside.' I have not admitted to anything other then BW saying that. All you do is twist words in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterTLJr Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) That's why I'd like to see advanced class specific solo content in the future. Kill two birds with one stone: people want more solo content (story and instance content, not dailies, though even story content could be made repeatable) and to emphasize the radical differences between the advanced classes. What may be a challenge to a Shadow, might not be a challenge to a sage, and vice versa. So advanced class specific content could be balanced to give each advanced class a comparable challenge. That would be nice, but they dont even have to do that, they could have just twisted some things around in the main story to show the difference between the 2. Edited June 18, 2013 by PeterTLJr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterTLJr Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Not sure how long I can carry on a conversation with someone who's first reaction to something I say is to characterize it as "stupid". But I will try. Switching AC's is totally different than switching specs- one cannot respec from tank to healer, but one could switch roles from tank to healer by switching AC's. Roles are important in defining the game. You totally blew off that part which indicates to me you want more of a sandbox type game than what SW currently is now. There are already plenty of those, feel free. My apologies, I should have chosen my words more carefully and with more respect. If they allow AC changes, you still wont be able to switch from tank to healer with any AC your in, you would have to switch to the other AC. The roles would all still be the same, you just have more freedom in your whole base class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman_AZ Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Tell me what other MMO's have this "basic feature". Rift is designed from the ground up to have no permanent class selection. This game has a PERMANENT class selection. Now, tell me how many MMO's allow a player to undo a PERMANENT class selection. How many MMO's with a PERMANENT class selection allow you to change your class? "That's the way it has ALWAYS been" =/= "That's how it will/should always be" Variety is the spice of life. I personally can't understand why no other MMO's ever really considered this option. RIFT and FF 11 are both prime examples of trying out a new class and getting to enjoy ONE character in various ways instead of various characters in one way. Imagine keeping your name, your appearance, and your achievements, and only changing class and gear. Your main would stay your main forever and the only reason to even have alts would be for crafting. But let's face it, if we were allowed 2 crafting skills and 4 gathering skills, would we really even need an alt? People fear CHANGE above all else. Face that fear and understand this is a positive aspect, and not the apocalypse people are making it out to be. Edited June 18, 2013 by Superman_AZ spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterTLJr Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) 1. no, switching advanced classes in TOR is not like switching from warrior to rogue in WoW, and I explained why. story. TOR is not WoW. its a different game. and classes revolve mainly around story. story is the uniting factor. story can be finished without ever picking an advanced class. you can make it to lvl 55 without ever picking advanced class. and the only thing that truly changes? is a number of skills you have access to. that's it. 2. your last sentence answers your own question. people pick out their class originally for variety of reasons, but for the first 10 levels? you are just warrior. the way your specialization is even set up, is merely a part of the story. it changes your playstyle, but it doesn't fundamentally change your class. you are still sith warrior, or sith inquisitor, or agent, etc etc. your character login screen tells you that's what you are. it doesn't specify marauder or juggernaut. it says sith warrior. so is it a wonder that many people see THAT as a class, not advanced specialization? I actually don't personally care whether they implement this ability or not, because I have no personal use for it. I have more than enough alts to cover most possibilities and enjoy certain stories enough to replay them over and over. I just get... lets call it mildly irritated at people who claim that switching between marauder and jugg is the same as switching between warrior and rogue and that advanced class IS the class. no. its not. Its this simple: A base class can exist without an AC, but an AC cant exist without a base class. Edited June 18, 2013 by PeterTLJr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Im just curious...I wonder if anyone has run up to max level without choosing an AC, or if that is even possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Im just curious...I wonder if anyone has run up to max level without choosing an AC, or if that is even possible. I would imagine it is. Why wouldn't it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Im just curious...I wonder if anyone has run up to max level without choosing an AC, or if that is even possible. It is. I remember seeing videos of level 50 Troopers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I would imagine it is. Why wouldn't it be? .....fair enough. It is. I remember seeing videos of level 50 Troopers etc. Does anyone have that link? I wonder how a player would perform at 50 without an AC choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I should be able to change my advanced class any time I want. At will. Without paying anything. No Cartel Coins. No Credits. JUST LIKE THE RESPEC. In fact, they should just add a couple of dialogue options to the existing vendor. Problem solved. They are my characters. I pay for them. There is no debate over what I can or can't do with them as it is nobody's business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Does anyone have that link? I wonder how a player would perform at 50 without an AC choice. I imagine it would be challenging. You could perform the experiment. It would be interesting (although I imagine somewhat tedious). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Does anyone have that link? I wonder how a player would perform at 50 without an AC choice. Hm, I can't seem to find it. I did find this picture of a level 50 smuggler, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I should be able to change my advanced class any time I want. At will. Without paying anything. No Cartel Coins. No Credits. JUST LIKE THE RESPEC. In fact, they should just add a couple of dialogue options to the existing vendor. Problem solved. They are my characters. I pay for them. There is no debate over what I can or can't do with them as it is nobody's business. That's awfully final for a game that has more players than simply yourself. There are limits to what the game will allow an individual to do as a player. That much is understood and expected generally. That does not mean you do not have a point, but the finality of your post indicates there is no room for discussion, and that contention is opinion at best....certainly not true. There is plenty of room for discussion and I would think that what players do with their characters is everyone's business in some situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I imagine it would be challenging. You could perform the experiment. It would be interesting (although I imagine somewhat tedious). I bet it would be pretty tough to play without the AC bonuses from the spec trees. Not to mention the extra abilities you get. I wonder, if they really viewed this as a class and an important decision why they didnt make it mandatory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I bet it would be pretty tough to play without the AC bonuses from the spec trees. Not to mention the extra abilities you get. I wonder, if they really viewed this as a class and an important decision why they didnt make it mandatory? the fact that choosing advanced class is not actually mandatory, that a lot of people genuinely miss the opportunity in a first place (its one of the most commonly asked question on Coruscant/Dromuund Kaas after all), and that it is absolutely possible (even if challenging) to play through your entire Class story (underlined for emphasis, because that's what its called - class story) is the main reason why AC switch is absolutely NOT the same thing as switching between say sith warrior and bounty hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 the fact that choosing advanced class is not actually mandatory, that a lot of people genuinely miss the opportunity in a first place (its one of the most commonly asked question on Coruscant/Dromuund Kaas after all), and that it is absolutely possible (even if challenging) to play through your entire Class story (underlined for emphasis, because that's what its called - class story) is the main reason why AC switch is absolutely NOT the same thing as switching between say sith warrior and bounty hunter. Oh, I would say that there is no doubt that asking for switching an AC is not like asking to change a Smuggler to a Jedi. The AC is a "class within a class" one could argue, so the base class remains the same, the game is designed for folks to make both choices. Changing your base class at ANY point would cause all kinds of problems with the storyline. But to my knowledge the story is the same for both ACs in each class. I contend that ACs are different enough to look at them like distinct classes, but that is not meant to be the final word on the issue. Just my view. And note that, class or not, switching AC is more of an issue of how it will effect the game than anything else for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I contend that ACs are different enough to look at them like distinct classes, but that is not meant to be the final word on the issue. Just my view. And there's the difference between you and others. To them, that is the final word on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrobearx Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) . Does anyone have that link? I wonder how a player would perform at 50 without an AC choice. trooper http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=574656 jedi http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=549229 and here is a agent http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=251639 Edited June 18, 2013 by astrobearx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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