ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Ratajack]

"Folks?" It's the "against" crowd who keep throwing that out over and over as if that settles the debate, refusing to accept that "ACs are totally different classes" is itself highly debatable and also a matter of opinion. It's a common rhetorical technique to sweep aside argument on highly debatable premises by basing a conclusion on one or more of those highly debatable premises and stating "Well, those preliminary matters are settled." It reminds me of a particular U.S. president's press conference where the press secretary stated that the subject matter of a reporter's question had in effect been answered already by pointing out nothing more substantial than previous administration statements that the matter had been dealt with.

 

 

You might have a point if he DEVS (you know, the ones who designed and created the game, who know the game better than any of us ever could) were not on record as stating that the AC's are DIFFERENT CLASSES.

 

It's not just a matter of those against allowing class changes making some unfounded claim that AC's are different classes. It's a matter of the devs themselves say they are different classes, and those against class changes simply have the devs on their side in that regard.

[Ratajack]

No argument there. The problem is that it boils down to is "I like it" vs. "I don't like it," yet those who don't like it seem bent on trying to justify their position with statements like "It can't be changed because AC choice is permanent," ignoring the fact that if AC swap were allowed, of course the choice would no longer be permanent. The anger on the "against" side is unfathomable.

 

 

Of course, if they allowed players to change their class, then the PERMANENT decision made at about level 10 when a player chooses his class would o longer be permanent. Just because something can be changed does not mean it should be changed.

 

Right now that decision IS PERMANENT, and I have yet to see any real, valid, and irrefutable reason why the devs should change that.

[Hizoka]

 

Right now that decision IS PERMANENT, and I have yet to see any real, valid, and irrefutable reason why the devs should change that.

 

because the only reason is childish want. Kids of today have no sense of accomplishment because they never EARN anything its all handed to them. They also think simply because they do something small that means they get everything. It goes back to little kid sports. They all get first place no matter what because they want them all to feel "special" regardless if they are eating dirt or scoring goals.

[PeterTLJr]

because the only reason is childish want. Kids of today have no sense of accomplishment because they never EARN anything its all handed to them. They also think simply because they do something small that means they get everything. It goes back to little kid sports. They all get first place no matter what because they want them all to feel "special" regardless if they are eating dirt or scoring goals.

 

what does changing ACs have to do with little kids and sports?

[Hizoka]

what does changing ACs have to do with little kids and sports?

 

wow dude it has been explained 10 times... You think just cause you showed up you get everything handed to you without earning it.

 

Just because you level 1 class does not mean you get the other classes already leveled up.

 

No matter how much you want it to be true commandos and vanguard are not the same class. The devs have defined them as different that is all there is to it. Just because you fail to admit you view is wrong it doesn't make it right.

 

Sorry you are not capable of understanding it but that is the fact of the game. Also in the amount of time you have been posting in this thread you could of leveled a commando and EARNED something rather then QQing that you do not want to earn it you want it handed to to you in a pay to win fashion.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Hizoka

[Evengelyne]

So if this craziness were to happen, what happens to those of us who spent the time and effort leveling up both AC's of a Class?

I'd be pretty upset if suddenly there's no real difference between my Operative and Sniper. Or my Jugg and Marauder.

[Ratajack]

So if this craziness were to happen, what happens to those of us who spent the time and effort leveling up both AC's of a Class?

I'd be pretty upset if suddenly there's no real difference between my Operative and Sniper. Or my Jugg and Marauder.

 

The ones who want to change their class do not care. They only thing that matters to them is what they want, to have a new class without leveling it.

[Jeweledleah]

So if this craziness were to happen, what happens to those of us who spent the time and effort leveling up both AC's of a Class?

I'd be pretty upset if suddenly there's no real difference between my Operative and Sniper. Or my Jugg and Marauder.

 

there's still difference. they are different characters. you don't have to change their AC any, you can just keep it as is.

 

when I played WoW, I had several hunters. I split up specs between them because allowed for different playstyles without switching. even though I could play the same spec on a single hunter. the reason i had multiples was because I

1. like the class

2. they were different race

3. one of them is different faction.

 

aka - there will STILL be difference. because you don't have to switch your AC, just like you don't have to switch your spec.

 

and unless you play through the story in identical way, have your characters look identical and be the same gender? there's also that.

 

incidentally - I personally have 2 smugglers, 2 agents, 2 bounty hunters, 2 inquisitors, 2 consulars, 2 warriors. (and 1 knight, 1 trooper)

other than knight and trooper, I have one of each advanced class. and other than consulars and inquisitors, i have one of each gender.

 

I personally have no need for ability to switch AC.

but I still support it (with limitations). because - choices are nice, and because second chances are nice.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Ratajack]

there's still difference. they are different characters. you don't have to change their AC any, you can just keep it as is.

 

when I played WoW, I had several hunters. I split up specs between them because allowed for different playstyles without switching. even though I could play the same spec on a single hunter. the reason i had multiples was because I

1. like the class

2. they were different race

3. one of them is different faction.

 

aka - there will STILL be difference. because you don't have to switch your AC, just like you don't have to switch your spec.

 

and unless you play through the story in identical way, have your characters look identical and be the same gender? there's also that.

 

incidentally - I personally have 2 smugglers, 2 agents, 2 bounty hunters, 2 inquisitors, 2 consulars, 2 warriors. (and 1 knight, 1 trooper)

other than knight and trooper, I have one of each advanced class. and other than consulars and inquisitors, i have one of each gender.

 

I personally have no need for ability to switch AC.

but I still support it (with limitations). because - choices are nice, and because second chances are nice.

 

 

If only second chances didn't lead to begging for third chances and so on...

[LordArtemis]

Of course, if they allowed players to change their class, then the PERMANENT decision made at about level 10 when a player chooses his class would o longer be permanent. Just because something can be changed does not mean it should be changed.

 

Right now that decision IS PERMANENT, and I have yet to see any real, valid, and irrefutable reason why the devs should change that.

 

It's a shame you say real or valid. Plenty of real or valid reasons pro and con have been presented already. Only someone that is unreasonable would see otherwise IMO.

 

And when one looks at the compromise as follows...

 

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP is uneffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

It is difficult for me to see any serious detriments to the game or it's populace. Since the change is made very early...shortly after the original choice it is in essence the original choice, which has almost exactly the same impact that the original choice had.

 

The majority of complaints, short of it "not feeling right" or "minimizing the importance of choice" (still worthy reasons against it IMO, but not strong ones) are rendered moot by setting it up this way. It then simply becomes a "whoops" or "I discovered this AC is not fun" choice.

 

One only has 5 levels to make that determination....and to be honest, with the lack of sensible discussion in this thread I am becoming more and more likely to support this option. Now that I have seen the extreme pro and con sides I no longer wish to be associated with either one.

 

Both extreme sides are at this point ridiculous and petty in their contentions.

 

So I think I'm going to support this option. Barring some SENSIBLE and well thought out reasoning that changes my mind.

 

Let the forum PVP continue.......

Edited June 16, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Jeweledleah]

If only second chances didn't lead to begging for third chances and so on...

 

and?

 

1. they don't have to keep giving people chances if they don't want to

2. while I personally prefer restrictions, unrestricted switching between advanced class will NOT be the end of the world

3. its a game. its supposed to be fun. choices are fun. not needing to take those choices is also fun. AC switch is optional choice. you don't have to use it.

4. this comes up a lot - wrong gear and inability to play a spec. as you have noticed, i have a lot of alts. as a consequence, I pug a lot, because my guildies are not always available and/or in a mood. I run into more people who don't really know how to play their class, then people who do. they fall into 2 categories. those who are willing to learn and they tend to learn pretty quickly. and those who are NOT willing to learn and there's just no helping those people regardless of what class/ac/role they play. ability to switch AC? will not change that. there will still be people who are willing to improve and people who are best added to ignore lists.

[Hizoka]

and?

 

1. they don't have to keep giving people chances if they don't want to

2. while I personally prefer restrictions, unrestricted switching between advanced class will NOT be the end of the world

3. its a game. its supposed to be fun. choices are fun. not needing to take those choices is also fun. AC switch is optional choice. you don't have to use it.

4. this comes up a lot - wrong gear and inability to play a spec. as you have noticed, i have a lot of alts. as a consequence, I pug a lot, because my guildies are not always available and/or in a mood. I run into more people who don't really know how to play their class, then people who do. they fall into 2 categories. those who are willing to learn and they tend to learn pretty quickly. and those who are NOT willing to learn and there's just no helping those people regardless of what class/ac/role they play. ability to switch AC? will not change that. there will still be people who are willing to improve and people who are best added to ignore lists.

 

i know its hard but think logically.. Why would a EA who makes money on people playing this game as long as possible want to make it so they shorten the gameplay??

 

I know the childish entitled want is everything for nothing. However EA will lose money because people will not p[ay as long when they can SKIP THE GAME.

[Jeweledleah]

i know its hard but think logically.. Why would a EA who makes money on people playing this game as long as possible want to make it so they shorten the gameplay??

 

I know the childish entitled want is everything for nothing. However EA will lose money because people will not p[ay as long when they can SKIP THE GAME.

 

 

I know its difficult to broaden your views, but why would EA who is in it for the money, ignore the opportunity to not only make money of people buying additional character customization, but also extending the time people play the game, by giving them an opportunity to enjoy the character that they stopped having fun with, all over again.

 

forcing people to level a new character is not going to make people play longer, its going to make people leave, because they are not interested in leveling through the same story twice . there is NO point in leveling the same class within the same story more than once, unless you are having fun doing so. there is no point in paying subscription to the game, unless you are having fun playing it.

[Grayseven]

i know its hard but think logically.. Why would a EA who makes money on people playing this game as long as possible want to make it so they shorten the gameplay??

 

I know the childish entitled want is everything for nothing. However EA will lose money because people will not p[ay as long when they can SKIP THE GAME.

 

People should want to play the game for as long as possible because it is fun. If the business plan of EA/BW is to have people replay 8 class story lines in order to "keep them around longer" they have much bigger problems.

 

AC change doesn't take away from game replay. It doesn't cause people to "skip the game". If they have a class fully leveled, they have already "played the game" and making someone play the game again isn't going to magically cause people to stick around longer.

 

People will stick around longer for fun, not in order to re-grind something they have already done just because they want to try out the "other option". Believe it or not, forcing a grind is not something that endears a company to its players.

 

You keep tossing "entitlement" around, most likely because you have no real argument and have to use insults and name calling to try to justify your myopic view. The simple truth is that happy players will stay and unhappy players will leave. I can't imagine EA/BW would lose people against AC change were it implemented (with the few childish temper tantrums being the exception as usual) but I can easily see people staying longer if it were implemented.

 

I'm currently leveling up a 9th character because after getting a Sith Sorc to 55 I wanted a Jedi Sage to give my guildies a few more healing options. I can't begin to describe how mind-numbingly boring it is to go through a class story a second time, nor to go through the leveling process a 9th time (though to be honest I've not gotten all of the other 8 characters all the way through their story arcs...mostly because the rest of the leveling process is just so dull). I'd much rather prefer to be able to switch my Shadow over to Sage because there is nothing in the leveling process of said Sage that is new.

 

And I can guarantee I'm not sticking around just because I "get to level yet another toon" nor am I spending any more money because of it but I can guarantee that boredom will chase me from a game faster than anything else.

[Hizoka]

People should want to play the game for as long as possible because it is fun. If the business plan of EA/BW is to have people replay 8 class story lines in order to "keep them around longer" they have much bigger problems.

 

AC change doesn't take away from game replay. It doesn't cause people to "skip the game". If they have a class fully leveled, they have already "played the game" and making someone play the game again isn't going to magically cause people to stick around longer.

 

People will stick around longer for fun, not in order to re-grind something they have already done just because they want to try out the "other option". Believe it or not, forcing a grind is not something that endears a company to its players.

 

You keep tossing "entitlement" around, most likely because you have no real argument and have to use insults and name calling to try to justify your myopic view. The simple truth is that happy players will stay and unhappy players will leave. I can't imagine EA/BW would lose people against AC change were it implemented (with the few childish temper tantrums being the exception as usual) but I can easily see people staying longer if it were implemented.

 

I'm currently leveling up a 9th character because after getting a Sith Sorc to 55 I wanted a Jedi Sage to give my guildies a few more healing options. I can't begin to describe how mind-numbingly boring it is to go through a class story a second time, nor to go through the leveling process a 9th time (though to be honest I've not gotten all of the other 8 characters all the way through their story arcs...mostly because the rest of the leveling process is just so dull). I'd much rather prefer to be able to switch my Shadow over to Sage because there is nothing in the leveling process of said Sage that is new.

 

And I can guarantee I'm not sticking around just because I "get to level yet another toon" nor am I spending any more money because of it but I can guarantee that boredom will chase me from a game faster than anything else.

 

you know wow has been around for the better part of a decade. Never once have people wanted a completely different class at max level to buy. People have played the same toon mutiple toons everything in wow for more then 8 years. This goes does not need pay to win, if you think it does then you are not the right type of person to play MMOs. What you want is an "i win" option because you are too lazy or too terrible at the game to actually earn stuff. EA wants you to level multiple toons, they will not just eliminate that aspect. It might make them money in the short term from the entitled children that play, but the gamers who play for the story and for the content and for star wars will leave the game, and that will hurt them in the long term. MMOs are not short term investments. What you want is a short term ideal without thinking fo the long term because you are not smart enough to think long term.

 

What is boring to you is not boring to others. If you feel ou are "too good" to level another toon and deserve to have one handed to you that is "entitlement" I have seen every story at least 4 times some as many as 20. Its only boring if you have no imagination which you do not seem to. If the game is boring to you then quit and play something else. Do not demand they let you skip the game because you are too childish to earn your max level characters.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Hizoka

[Ratajack]

It's a shame you say real or valid. Plenty of real or valid reasons pro and con have been presented already. Only someone that is unreasonable would see otherwise IMO.

 

And when one looks at the compromise as follows...

 

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP is uneffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

It is difficult for me to see any serious detriments to the game or it's populace. Since the change is made very early...shortly after the original choice it is in essence the original choice, which has almost exactly the same impact that the original choice had.

 

The majority of complaints, short of it "not feeling right" or "minimizing the importance of choice" (still worthy reasons against it IMO, but not strong ones) are rendered moot by setting it up this way. It then simply becomes a "whoops" or "I discovered this AC is not fun" choice.

 

One only has 5 levels to make that determination....and to be honest, with the lack of sensible discussion in this thread I am becoming more and more likely to support this option. Now that I have seen the extreme pro and con sides I no longer wish to be associated with either one.

 

Both extreme sides are at this point ridiculous and petty in their contentions.

 

So I think I'm going to support this option. Barring some SENSIBLE and well thought out reasoning that changes my mind.

 

Let the forum PVP continue.......

 

In case you missed it, I am on record as having said that I would be much more in favor of allowing class changes with the provision that your character is reset back to level 10. I would not even cap the option to change at 16. I would be adamant that changing class resets your character back to level 10, though.

 

This does not seem to fit the idea that some people have, though. It seems that most have some reason for wanting to change their class at max level, most are unwilling to be reset and have to level again, and many want to be able to change willy nilly with no restrictions and many want to do it for FREE.

 

I offer the following quotes as support:

 

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Alec_Fortescue View Post

I wish it was something one could pay for in credits or associated with legacy. There was very little updates to legacy since it appeared. I'd not want to be forced to pay everytime because I'd switch into marauder for raiding or pvp (combat efficiency) and afterwards for PvE, visuals and wandering around fleet I'd prefer to have a look of a Juggernaut. :/

 

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Journeyer

I think they should allow free, unlimited AC changes via a trainer "boss." If you can sufficiently demonstrate competence in your current advanced class and defeat the trainer, you get to respec.

 

Yea, yea, I know. Then none of the people who want respec would be able to have it... But it was just a thought

 

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Superman_AZ

People wanted Free to Play "Just because" - they got it

People wanted Modable gear at low levels "Just because" - they got it

People wanted speeders at lvl 10 instead of lvl 25 "Just because" - they got it

 

The thing to note is most games are designed with Casual players in mind. The tougher you make it, the less likely most casuals are to play these days. Hence the Cartel Market. You can BUY just about anything you want for your game, and you keep playing because now you have incentive.

 

In World of Warcraft, they asked for Dual Spec for years. And when they finally got it, it was 1000gold. They asked for it to be reduced. It became 10 gold. They asked for a level reduction, it went from 40 to 30 (or 50 to 40, been a LONG time ago). Same with mounts. Went from lvl 40 to lvl 20 and went from 1k gold to 7 gold.

 

People ask because they want choices. They love options that improve THEIR quality of life in the game. It would have zero impact on anyone else, but would make their game that much better. Same thing goes for player housing. I couldn't care less if we ever got it, but I am not going to boycott it simply because someone else wants a feature that I think is beyond stupid. Why have a feature in an Adventure game that encourages you to ignore the Adventure and stay inside decorating? The SIMS has that covered. But, if they want it, they should be allowed to ask for it.

 

People like options. They like to play multiple classes and would love to switch between Powertech and Merc without having to log out and log back in. If RIFT can do it, and do it well, there is no reason why this could not be a 350K cred / 2k CC unlock PER character (not Legacy). People claim it would damage the game, but I don't see having a basic choice available in other MMOs as being detrimental.

Quote: Originally Posted by Anzel View Post

Switching AC's should be free to all subscribers. Just like resetting skill points. They are my characters and it's nobody's business how I play them.

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Grayseven

The more you talk about mice and cookies, the sillier your arguments look.

 

Why shouldn't players be able to change their AC as often as they like? I can respec as much as I want and it fundamentally changes my character when I do. I have no problems bouncing between Gunnery DPS and Combat Medic healing, I have to have different sets of gear for the two and the mechanics of each are very different.

 

Your insistence that the status quo is just fine still doesn't have merit. You have not one said why this would be bad, just your incessant insistence that zero is what it is and what it should only be because you lost your cookie to a mouse.

 

There is a huge difference between class changes and advanced class changes. AC's are surprisingly similar to each other in most circumstances whereas classes are different enough to merit allowing changing between the two instead of forcing people to grind through class story content they have already done.

 

 

Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin

If it were available, it would cost 100s of CCs. Not many people are gonna swap ACs willy-nilly. And even if they did, so what? It's their CC.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Ratajack

[Ratajack]

and?

 

1. they don't have to keep giving people chances if they don't want toThey don't have to give anyone the chance to undo a PERMANENT choice, a decision the player knew and agreed was PERMANENT, yet here you are arguing for that "second chance"

2. while I personally prefer restrictions, unrestricted switching between advanced class will NOT be the end of the world In my opinion, it would hurt this game with the loss of subs

3. its a game. its supposed to be fun. choices are fun. not needing to take those choices is also fun. AC switch is optional choice. you don't have to use it.It may be a game, but some choices should remain permanent, among those is a player's choice of CLASS, especially when that player was advised multiple times and even had to confirm multiple times that the choice was PERMANENT, and they knew it was PERMANENT,

4. this comes up a lot - wrong gear and inability to play a spec. as you have noticed, i have a lot of alts. as a consequence, I pug a lot, because my guildies are not always available and/or in a mood. I run into more people who don't really know how to play their class, then people who do. they fall into 2 categories. those who are willing to learn and they tend to learn pretty quickly. and those who are NOT willing to learn and there's just no helping those people regardless of what class/ac/role they play. ability to switch AC? will not change that. there will still be people who are willing to improve and people who are best added to ignore lists.The fact that players have to occasionally deal with an undesirable situation now is not a reason to allow class changes and increase the frequency with which those players will be faced with having to deal with a similar undesirable situation.

 

 

 

Class changes are not necessary, especially with the ease of leveling in this game.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Ratajack

[Ratajack]

People should want to play the game for as long as possible because it is fun. If the business plan of EA/BW is to have people replay 8 class story lines in order to "keep them around longer" they have much bigger problems.

 

AC change doesn't take away from game replay. It doesn't cause people to "skip the game". If they have a class fully leveled, they have already "played the game" and making someone play the game again isn't going to magically cause people to stick around longer.

 

People will stick around longer for fun, not in order to re-grind something they have already done just because they want to try out the "other option". Believe it or not, forcing a grind is not something that endears a company to its players.

 

You keep tossing "entitlement" around, most likely because you have no real argument and have to use insults and name calling to try to justify your myopic view. The simple truth is that happy players will stay and unhappy players will leave. I can't imagine EA/BW would lose people against AC change were it implemented (with the few childish temper tantrums being the exception as usual) but I can easily see people staying longer if it were implemented.

 

I'm currently leveling up a 9th character because after getting a Sith Sorc to 55 I wanted a Jedi Sage to give my guildies a few more healing options. I can't begin to describe how mind-numbingly boring it is to go through a class story a second time, nor to go through the leveling process a 9th time (though to be honest I've not gotten all of the other 8 characters all the way through their story arcs...mostly because the rest of the leveling process is just so dull). I'd much rather prefer to be able to switch my Shadow over to Sage because there is nothing in the leveling process of said Sage that is new.

 

And I can guarantee I'm not sticking around just because I "get to level yet another toon" nor am I spending any more money because of it but I can guarantee that boredom will chase me from a game faster than anything else.

 

 

If I leveled a priest to max level WOW, would that entitle me to change that priest into a rogue? Or does leveling a rogue entitle me to change that rogue to a priest? NO.

 

Why should you or anyone else be "entitled" to a sage(priest) simply because you leveled a shadow(rogue)? Don't try to tell me they are the same class, we both know they aren't, and even the devs said they aren't.

 

What other term can you find that describes a person who feels that they deserve to change their character's class just because they want to, other than "ENTITLED"?

[Ratajack]

I know its difficult to broaden your views, but why would EA who is in it for the money, ignore the opportunity to not only make money of people buying additional character customization, but also extending the time people play the game, by giving them an opportunity to enjoy the character that they stopped having fun with, all over again.

 

forcing people to level a new character is not going to make people play longer, its going to make people leave, because they are not interested in leveling through the same story twice . there is NO point in leveling the same class within the same story more than once, unless you are having fun doing so. there is no point in paying subscription to the game, unless you are having fun playing it.

 

Let me quote myself from another thread:

 

If they close threads like this down, and give a "hard no" then they risk losing the subs of those players who want to change their class. If we look at the most recent statement as s "soft no", by making the statement they did, in the manner in which they made it, they can keep the people who want to change their class playing and paying by letting them THINK that class changes are coming. They can also keep those against class changes playing and paying by keeping class changes out of the game.

 

BW knows that they will lose subs if they allow class changes. There can be no doubt that people will leave this game if they allow class changes. BW also knows that they will lose some subs if they came out and gave that "hard no" and said that they will not be instituting class changes.

 

As of now, they have you playing and paying and wanting to change your class, and they have me playing and paying by not allowing class changes. They lose nothing by making that ambiguous statement and not implementing class changes.

[Grayseven]

you know wow has been around for the better part of a decade. Never once have people wanted a completely different class at max level to buy. People have played the same toon mutiple toons everything in wow for more then 8 years. This goes does not need pay to win, if you think it does then you are not the right type of person to play MMOs. What you want is an "i win" option because you are too lazy or too terrible at the game to actually earn stuff. EA wants you to level multiple toons, they will not just eliminate that aspect. It might make them money in the short term from the entitled children that play, but the gamers who play for the story and for the content and for star wars will leave the game, and that will hurt them in the long term. MMOs are not short term investments. What you want is a short term ideal without thinking fo the long term because you are not smart enough to think long term.

 

What is boring to you is not boring to others. If you feel ou are "too good" to level another toon and deserve to have one handed to you that is "entitlement" I have seen every story at least 4 times some as many as 20. Its only boring if you have no imagination which you do not seem to. If the game is boring to you then quit and play something else. Do not demand they let you skip the game because you are too childish to earn your max level characters.

 

First off I've seen countless posts on the WoW forums asking for class change, so that's a straight up lie. Your ignorance is amazing.

 

Second, WoW has distinct and separate classes, unlike SWTOR. The AC's in SWTOR are more like different specs than individual classes, especially considering that gear is nearly identical in most aspects.

 

Third, there is no aspect of AC change that is "pay to win". Changing from one AC to another does not equate to winning anything except a reprieve from boring repetition.

 

Fourth, since all you can do is insult instead of actually debate and apparently fail at comprehension, I've already played every class and every AC across 8 toons. I've experienced every flash point and every operation and engaged in every event this game has offered. Repetition is not "fun" and it certainly won't retain me.

 

Your constant attacks and insults are amusing since they obviously come from an entitled childish brat with nothing better happening in their life than a game that you obviously spend waaaay too much time playing.

 

AC has nothing to do with being "too good" to do something I've already done multiple times, nor does it have anything to do with imagination...which I guarantee I have more of than you just based on your inane insistence on stupidly doing the same thing over and over again. It's called flexibility. If you want to make dozens of characters and level them up through the same old garbage again and again, that is your business but I have better things to do with my time than to level 16 characters just so I can have one of each faction and AC.

 

Once you grow up you'll understand. Until then, good luck with life because when you finally enter the real world you are going to be in for a rude surprise.

[Grayseven]

If I leveled a priest to max level WOW, would that entitle me to change that priest into a rogue? Or does leveling a rogue entitle me to change that rogue to a priest? NO.

 

Why should you or anyone else be "entitled" to a sage(priest) simply because you leveled a shadow(rogue)? Don't try to tell me they are the same class, we both know they aren't, and even the devs said they aren't.

 

What other term can you find that describes a person who feels that they deserve to change their character's class just because they want to, other than "ENTITLED"?

 

Because a rogue and a priest are two completely separate classes, but Vanguard and Commando are not. Rogue gearing is way different from priest gearing while Vanguard and Commando are nearly identical.

 

Entitlement means you feel you are owed something without working for it. AC is just like a spec change and I've already earned whatever level I'm at so switching to another AC doesn't give me anything for "free". Were we debating switching from Trooper to Scoundrel you would have a point and I don't believe class change should even be considered, but AC's are not classes. They are just a different set of spec's for the same class just as Combat Medic is a different spec from Gunnery. All AC's does is allows access to 3 additional specs for the same class.

 

If you are going to bring other games into the discussion, make sure your arguments make sense.

[Anzel]

I should be able to change my AC at will just like I can reset my skill points. They are my characters and it's nobody's business what I do with them. Period.

[Ratajack]

Because a rogue and a priest are two completely separate classes, but Vanguard and Commando are not. Rogue gearing is way different from priest gearing while Vanguard and Commando are nearly identical.

 

Entitlement means you feel you are owed something without working for it. AC is just like a spec change and I've already earned whatever level I'm at so switching to another AC doesn't give me anything for "free". Were we debating switching from Trooper to Scoundrel you would have a point and I don't believe class change should even be considered, but AC's are not classes. They are just a different set of spec's for the same class just as Combat Medic is a different spec from Gunnery. All AC's does is allows access to 3 additional specs for the same class.

 

If you are going to bring other games into the discussion, make sure your arguments make sense.

 

 

The devs have stated that the different AC's are fundamentally DIFFERENT CLASSES, so unless you are going to tell me that you know better than the devs, changing AC's is CHANGING CLASSES, not something as simple as a spec change.

 

Last time I checked, vanguard and commando were two separate and distinct styles of play. Did you level that character as a vanguard? if so, then you did not earn the right to play that character as a commando, therefore allowing you to switch classes would be giving you that commando for FREE, or without having earned it.

[Ratajack]

I should be able to change my AC at will just like I can reset my skill points. They are my characters and it's nobody's business what I do with them. Period.

 

As you have been advised before, they are NOT your characters. They belong to EA/BW.

 

If you want to play that other class, you already have the means to do so. It's called level a character of that class.

[Grayseven]

The devs have stated that the different AC's are fundamentally DIFFERENT CLASSES, so unless you are going to tell me that you know better than the devs, changing AC's is CHANGING CLASSES, not something as simple as a spec change.

 

Last time I checked, vanguard and commando were two separate and distinct styles of play. Did you level that character as a vanguard? if so, then you did not earn the right to play that character as a commando, therefore allowing you to switch classes would be giving you that commando for FREE, or without having earned it.

 

They are NOT fundamentally different. They share more in common with one another than they have differences. The Dev's have said a lot of stuff that isn't true and doesn't make sense so trotting out the old "the dev's said" isn't really a good argument.

 

I have a Commando and a Powertech. The gearing is nearly identical, the differences in abilities (aside from naming) are almost non-existent as anyone who has played both can attest. There are many more abilities in common than different. There is little difference in style of play between the two.

 

Let's not forget that both share a tree. For Troopers, Assault Specialist is the same for both Vanguard and Commando.

 

AC change wouldn't give anyone anything "for free". They have already leveled up that class, they are only getting access to two more spec's. It has nothing to do with "earned". To be quite honest, AC's could be removed from the game entirely and each class given access to 5 spec trees and there would be absolutely no detrimental effect to the game whatsoever. People interested in the 8 different class story lines would still level up 8 characters to experience it, so replay would still be intact.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Grayseven