ETA on Advanced Class change?

[LordArtemis]

Can you name one other game that allows a PERMANENT class choice to be undone and players can change class wily nilly? Can you switch from a rogue (melee DPS with stealth ability AKA assassin) to a priest (ranged DPS/heals AKA sorcerer)?

 

This was probably presented as a counterpoint, so I will not point out it's obvious silliness (in my opinion naturally)....or the silliness of presenting this potential game change (allowing AC change) as something other games allow. Obviously this game is not other games. That is the most logical statement that can be made on this point IMO.

 

Limited play time is not a valid reason for allowing class changes. There is no reason why anyone NEEDS that new class in two days. It's actually likely to be less /played time to reach max level if the leveling process is spread out over a couple of weeks, due to rested xp.

 

Of course it is a valid reason. It is, however, not a very strong reason to advocate the change. That in no way makes it invalid...simply weak.

 

My own play time is limited due to real life issues. Do you see me here clamoring to be able to change my assassins class to sorcerer?

 

That has no bearing on whether or not the suggestion is valid. It only has validity if you can offer reasons why your method is more fulfilling as a result of your restrictions. Otherwise it is posturing.

 

What is gained by not allowing class changes? The players gain the satisfaction of actually putting some effort into leveling that new character, and not taking the easy, no effort route. Bw gains the extra time the player spends leveling that character.

 

A reasonable logical contention presented in a very poor way. Let me flip it.

 

What is gained by allowing class change? The players gain the satisfaction of actually getting to play the class they want instead of taking the ridiculous punitive route of leveling a new character in a horrible AC as obsessive players would. Bw gains the extra favor that the player feels from connecting to a character they actually enjoy playing.

 

Both are valid points presented poorly by insulting another type of player. If you have to insult those that oppose your view you have a weak baseless argument to begin with and should be ignored.

 

You are capable of presenting logical arguments. Please stop posting diatribe. It is beneath you.

Edited June 13, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

None of your objections have merit, none of your arguments make sense.

 

I don't think that is true at all. Despite some of the "rhetoric" that community member may or may not have posted some logical negatives to allowing this change have been presented. Ignoring that logic is silly...instead it is best to debate the positives and how they may or may not outweigh the negatives....

 

FOTM abuse - Any logical player would have to concede that a late game AC switch could be exploited depending on how it is designed, and this could impact class representation and player motivations with respect to bringing about positive changes to classes with problems.

 

Leveling process exploitation - This could be an issue, but it already an issue in the game with free respecs. The same arguments were presented against free respecs, and though the problem already exists it would likely increase with AC changes.

 

Lack of comfort/familiarity with changed AC - This could be a concern to a lesser degree, depending on how it is implemented. In general it seems about 5 levels and perhaps a dozen or so endgame raids can provide the kind of experience needed in the new AC, but at the time of change it could be said the player would not know how to play the AC correctly.

 

Reduction of reroll requirement mechanic that promotes game play - Folks would not have to reroll. That would reduce the amount of time folks have to play to reach the top of a desired class, and this is likely contrary to the original intent to encourage reroll.

 

 

All of these are valid concerns, though the impact and importance is certainly debatable. There are plenty of valid pro reasons as well.

Edited June 13, 2013 by LordArtemis

[TheDarkRanger]

Max 1 or 2 changes with high cost doesnt really that much hurt.

[Ratajack]

Max 1 or 2 changes with high cost doesnt really that much hurt.

 

What happens when these forums are full of players who want to change their class a third time? After all, you already allowed them to change their class once or twice, why not third time? And a fourth time after that? And so on....

 

There already exists a restriction on the number of times a player can change their class. That number is zero. There is every reason to believe that raising that number would just open the floodgates to the cries demanding unlimited class changes.

 

Let's not start down that road by giving the mouse a cookie.

[Grayseven]

What happens when these forums are full of players who want to change their class a third time? After all, you already allowed them to change their class once or twice, why not third time? And a fourth time after that? And so on....

 

There already exists a restriction on the number of times a player can change their class. That number is zero. There is every reason to believe that raising that number would just open the floodgates to the cries demanding unlimited class changes.

 

Let's not start down that road by giving the mouse a cookie.

 

The more you talk about mice and cookies, the sillier your arguments look.

 

Why shouldn't players be able to change their AC as often as they like? I can respec as much as I want and it fundamentally changes my character when I do. I have no problems bouncing between Gunnery DPS and Combat Medic healing, I have to have different sets of gear for the two and the mechanics of each are very different.

 

Your insistence that the status quo is just fine still doesn't have merit. You have not one said why this would be bad, just your incessant insistence that zero is what it is and what it should only be because you lost your cookie to a mouse.

 

There is a huge difference between class changes and advanced class changes. AC's are surprisingly similar to each other in most circumstances whereas classes are different enough to merit allowing changing between the two instead of forcing people to grind through class story content they have already done.

[Ratajack]

The more you talk about mice and cookies, the sillier your arguments look.

 

Why shouldn't players be able to change their AC as often as they like? I can respec as much as I want and it fundamentally changes my character when I do. I have no problems bouncing between Gunnery DPS and Combat Medic healing, I have to have different sets of gear for the two and the mechanics of each are very different.

 

Your insistence that the status quo is just fine still doesn't have merit. You have not one said why this would be bad, just your incessant insistence that zero is what it is and what it should only be because you lost your cookie to a mouse.

 

There is a huge difference between class changes and advanced class changes. AC's are surprisingly similar to each other in most circumstances whereas classes are different enough to merit allowing changing between the two instead of forcing people to grind through class story content they have already done.

 

 

I have presented time and time again evidence as to why AC's are different classes and that allowing class changes would be bad for this game. What I have said does not mesh with what you want, so you ignore it and use words like "sillier".

 

As someone in another thread pointed out, since I am not the one asking for a change in the way the game currently works, the onus is not on me to provide reasonable reasons why class changes should not be allowed, which I have done, BTW; but rather the onus is on those who wish to change the game so they can be allowed to change their class to provide reasonable justifications and proof of why this would be good for the game, which they have not done. No one has provided any kind of proof that it would make the game better, just some claims that "it wouldn't affect anyone else".

[LordArtemis]

I think plenty of points have been made as to how it could improve the game, with just as much validity as those that are against it.

 

1) People make the wrong choices in AC

Especially early after choosing the AC, if someone discovers they have chosen the wrong AC they are either stuck with that AC or have to reroll and play through the content they JUST played through all over again. It's one thing to reroll a new AC at 55...it's quite another to do so at level 10, especially if this is your first character.

 

2) Choice is generally preferred by players in the genre

This has been demonstrated in the market time and time again, not to mention that the game did not fare well out of the gate, and one of the reasons often cited by launch players was that the game did not allow customization or choice. It is well known that the prior team was very much against allowing choices other than the ones they allowed by design.

 

3) Easier for folks to change over from DPS to pure healing or tank ACs

It can be argued that there are too may DPS characters in this game, and that DPS tend to have a problem getting in groups. For max level it may be adventurous to allow folks to be able to change their AC to one of the ones that perform better as a healer or tank, since some ACs do not support those roles very well. This could cause more healers and tanks to be available for groups.

 

4) Players would be more likely to level characters that are currently stagnant due to the wrong AC choice

This again refers to early change, the one that I am most likely to support, if any. I personally have a smuggler that sits at level 15 and has not been leveled since launch. I chose the wrong AC and simply made the character a crafter. Allowing an EARLY change would allow me to correct my bad AC choice and actually experience the smuggler story.

 

 

I would also point out that making the contention that players will ask for more is not a completely reputable contention. There are plenty of examples where players complained about how things were, things changed and the playerbase was satisfied for the most part.

 

The most recent examples I can think of would be 4 action bars for Preferred players, planetary comms moved to 100 and QT down to 30 minutes.

[MajikMyst]

I think plenty of points have been made as to how it could improve the game, with just as much validity as those that are against it.

 

1) People make the wrong choices in AC

Especially early after choosing the AC, if someone discovers they have chosen the wrong AC they are either stuck with that AC or have to reroll and play through the content they JUST played through all over again. It's one thing to reroll a new AC at 55...it's quite another to do so at level 10, especially if this is your first character.

 

2) Choice is generally preferred by players in the genre

This has been demonstrated in the market time and time again, not to mention that the game did not fare well out of the gate, and one of the reasons often cited by launch players was that the game did not allow customization or choice. It is well known that the prior team was very much against allowing choices other than the ones they allowed by design.

 

3) Easier for folks to change over from DPS to pure healing or tank ACs

It can be argued that there are too may DPS characters in this game, and that DPS tend to have a problem getting in groups. For max level it may be adventurous to allow folks to be able to change their AC to one of the ones that perform better as a healer or tank, since some ACs do not support those roles very well. This could cause more healers and tanks to be available for groups.

 

4) Players would be more likely to level characters that are currently stagnant due to the wrong AC choice

This again refers to early change, the one that I am most likely to support, if any. I personally have a smuggler that sits at level 15 and has not been leveled since launch. I chose the wrong AC and simply made the character a crafter. Allowing an EARLY change would allow me to correct my bad AC choice and actually experience the smuggler story.

 

 

I would also point out that making the contention that players will ask for more is not a completely reputable contention. There are plenty of examples where players complained about how things were, things changed and the playerbase was satisfied for the most part.

 

The most recent examples I can think of would be 4 action bars for Preferred players, planetary comms moved to 100 and QT down to 30 minutes.

 

So according to you, the game shouldn't have rules or consequences?? Players shouldn't be held accountable for the choices they make?? Bioware should just give away content and allow people to do whatever they want..

 

Choice is a moot argument.. People have all the choices in the world.. They just have to live with that choice.. You are saying they don't..

 

Easier is not a good reason for anything in an MMO. There is no point in playing something if it is to easy.. Bioware is in the business to make money, not to accommodate people that just want easy and convenient.. Laziness is not a good attribute to promote in an MMO..

 

There is no basis for your last argument.. It isn't that hard to roll a new character.. Nobody should just be allowed to get a free character or a character they didn't earn..

 

You have also said nothing about balance of the game.. Things that would truly impact the game..

 

You have also said nothing about the argument that if Bioware allows it once, they would be pressured into allowing it again and again..

 

Class swapping goes against the idea of even having a class.. What is the point of having a class if we can just change it at well..

 

How good is a game that doesn't hold players accountable for choices they make??

 

What of the classes that are DPS only?? How many Sentinels would change to Guardians so they can tank and DPS.. How many gunslingers would go scoundrel so they can heal and dps??

 

Nobody seems to want to look at this issue from the big picture.. There would be a dramatic impact on the game..

 

Bottom line here is this.. The game says that when you choose your AC it is permanent.. Well.. People need to come to terms with what that word means.. Bioware shouldn't have to change the rules of the game to accommodate a few people that are to lazy to roll a new character.. Perhaps MMO's are not a good game for them if they are to lazy to abide by the rules..

 

Why am I calling people lazy?? Because it is the only true reason to allow class swapping.. As shown above.. There is no other..

[LordArtemis]

So according to you, the game shouldn't have rules or consequences?? Players shouldn't be held accountable for the choices they make?? Bioware should just give away content and allow people to do whatever they want..

 

I'd like to know exactly how you come to that conclusion. It would be an interesting read I'm sure.

 

Choice is a moot argument.. People have all the choices in the world.. They just have to live with that choice.. You are saying they don't..

 

Fair enough. Calling players lazy and claiming that is a reason against is far more of a moot argument than choice ever will be.

 

Easier is not a good reason for anything in an MMO. There is no point in playing something if it is to easy.. Bioware is in the business to make money, not to accommodate people that just want easy and convenient.. Laziness is not a good attribute to promote in an MMO..

 

The argument that "easier is not a good reason for anything in an MMO" is not only a tried and true argument against the addition of ANY convenience feature according to hardcore players, including most of those that have been added recently, it is not a popular sentiment. It is one that is simply held by a minority of hardcore players and does not represent the casual majority.

 

There is no basis for your last argument.. It isn't that hard to roll a new character.. Nobody should just be allowed to get a free character or a character they didn't earn..

 

There is no basis for my last argument because I am not posing an argument, other than to say that there are at least as many sensible and reputable points for adding it the game as there are against....and i posted BOTH.

 

You have also said nothing about balance of the game.. Things that would truly impact the game..

 

Balance. Balance can not be achieved. Period. It is a foolish and unproductive endeavor. The history of this game and countless others stand in evidence.

 

You have also said nothing about the argument that if Bioware allows it once, they would be pressured into allowing it again and again..

 

...which is proof you did not bother to read even the post you quoted. Read it and get back to me.

 

Class swapping goes against the idea of even having a class.. What is the point of having a class if we can just change it at well..

 

This is one of the most ridiculous statement I have heard on this forum. Your assigning meaning to something that has ZERO meaning. This is a video game....were not talking about getting a tattoo here.

 

How good is a game that doesn't hold players accountable for choices they make??

 

As good as any other game on the market. "Choice should mean something" is the absolute weakest and most pathetic reason I have ever heard to NOT do something in designing a game.

 

This is exactly how the original dev staff felt. The game fell flat on it's face as a result. It is a toxic point of view that has no place in modern mmos period.

 

What of the classes that are DPS only?? How many Sentinels would change to Guardians so they can tank and DPS.. How many gunslingers would go scoundrel so they can heal and dps??

 

That is precisely the point. Again, it seems you did not bother to read the actual post you quoted.

 

Nobody seems to want to look at this issue from the big picture.. There would be a dramatic impact on the game..

 

Bottom line here is this.. The game says that when you choose your AC it is permanent.. Well.. People need to come to terms with what that word means.. Bioware shouldn't have to change the rules of the game to accommodate a few people that are to lazy to roll a new character.. Perhaps MMO's are not a good game for them if they are to lazy to abide by the rules..

 

I think plenty of people know the impact and have come to terms with the idea that the original dev staff wanted wanted many choices to be permanent. Thankfully most of them are gone and the game is better for it.

 

You may not agree with the "choice is better" path the game has taken lately, and that is your right. But holding on to the past is probably not going to be a fruitful endeavor.

 

Why am I calling people lazy?? Because it is the only true reason to allow class swapping.. As shown above.. There is no other..

 

Actually I'm pretty sure you are calling people lazy for another reason. I think that reason is pretty obvious.

 

 

Let me clue you in on a bit of information....I am not an advocate of the change. I am an advocate of a common sense discussion, therefore I post the SENSIBLE reasons FOR AND AGAINST.

 

You might check next time before you assume someone is an advocate for a change you desire. You seem to do that quite a bit.

 

Just in case you want to make the silly claim that I have never posted the points against.....

 

None of your objections have merit, none of your arguments make sense.

 

I don't think that is true at all. Despite some of the "rhetoric" that community member may or may not have posted some logical negatives to allowing this change have been presented. Ignoring that logic is silly...instead it is best to debate the positives and how they may or may not outweigh the negatives....

 

FOTM abuse - Any logical player would have to concede that a late game AC switch could be exploited depending on how it is designed, and this could impact class representation and player motivations with respect to bringing about positive changes to classes with problems.

 

Leveling process exploitation - This could be an issue, but it already an issue in the game with free respecs. The same arguments were presented against free respecs, and though the problem already exists it would likely increase with AC changes.

 

Lack of comfort/familiarity with changed AC - This could be a concern to a lesser degree, depending on how it is implemented. In general it seems about 5 levels and perhaps a dozen or so endgame raids can provide the kind of experience needed in the new AC, but at the time of change it could be said the player would not know how to play the AC correctly.

 

Reduction of reroll requirement mechanic that promotes game play - Folks would not have to reroll. That would reduce the amount of time folks have to play to reach the top of a desired class, and this is likely contrary to the original intent to encourage reroll.

 

 

All of these are valid concerns, though the impact and importance is certainly debatable. There are plenty of valid pro reasons as well.

Edited June 14, 2013 by LordArtemis

[MajikMyst]

I'd like to know exactly how you come to that conclusion. It would be an interesting read I'm sure..

 

With all do respect.. Have you read your own post lately??

 

And no.. There is no other reason to call someone lazy.. At it's core, laziness is the only reason to want Class swapping.. It is really that simple.. Some people just don't want to roll another character.. That is what it boils down to.. In the simplest of terms..

 

The game says their choice is permanent.. Why shouldn't people be forced to live with that rule?? Why should that rule be changed to accommodate them??

 

As others and myself have said.. There is no argument for class swapping.. Your claims to the contrary are simply incorrect.. People can roll a new character.. They can delete the old character if they want.. But the integrity of the classes should be maintained.. Rules in a game should be changed because a few people are to lazy to roll another character.. The game is very clear on the issue.. Your class is permanent.. There is nothing else to add..

Edited June 14, 2013 by MajikMyst

[KorathTheCool]

AC swapping would hurt the game. You would get people leveling a DPS to 50/55, deciding to go tank/healer, and get a completely new set of skills (outside of the basic smuggler/BH/Knight etc skillset) and have no idea how to use them.

 

That is why you get only a few skills per level. It gives you time to learn what to use and when to use it, and makes you a better player when you get to the max level. By giving you a few skills each level, it makes it easy to learn your class. If you swap classes you get a bunch of new skills all at once and have to figure out each one, then decide to try to heal or tank in a HM FP/Ops etc, you won't have the time to figure out each skill and will likely get your group wiped.

 

BW has no reason to add this in. The argument that it will encourage people to try new classes doesn't work, because they already have ways to get people to try new classes without adding this. Personal Stories, swapping from LS to DS and DS to LS are already in the game to encourage people to have alts. If you make a Sentinel, but decide you want to tank and don't want to level up a Jedi Knight again, you can roll a Trooper. If you have a Gunslinger, but decide you want to heal and don't want to level up a Smuggler again, roll a Sage.

 

Bioware would lose money on this, because instead of a player deciding he/she doesn't like their current class and rerolling, they could simply talk to an NPC or click a button and presto, class swapped. Bioware would lose out on all that playing time of leveling up and possibly subbing or buying CC. From my experience with Bioware/EA, not a chance they would do anything that would cost them money.

 

When you create a character, you are able to watch gameplay videos of your class and view the Advanced Classes at the character creation screen. When choosing an advanced class, you get a detailed description of each, what roles they play, weapons they can wield, armor they can use. You can view the entire skill tree. BW went out of their way to show you the differences and tried to make damn sure you chose the class you wanted. It's not their fault if you decide later on you don't like your class, or want a different role. That's why you get more than one character slot, even F2P.

 

Not trying to insult anyone here or insinuate these are the only reasons someone would want an AC change, but this is almost 100 pages now and I don't have the time or motivation to read all the posts. This is just my take on it.

[LordArtemis]

With all do respect.. Have you read your own post lately??

 

And no.. There is no other reason to call someone lazy.. At it's core, laziness is the only reason to want Class swapping.. It is really that simple.. Some people just don't want to roll another character.. That is what it boils down to.. In the simplest of terms..

 

The game says their choice is permanent.. Why shouldn't people be forced to live with that rule?? Why should that rule be changed to accommodate them??

 

As others and myself have said.. There is no argument for class swapping.. Your claims to the contrary are simply incorrect.. People can roll a new character.. They can delete the old character if they want.. But the integrity of the classes should be maintained.. Rules in a game should be changed because a few people are to lazy to roll another character.. The game is very clear on the issue.. Your class is permanent.. There is nothing else to add..

 

Well, your entitled to your opinion. It is a bit self serving to claim that all reasons against AC switching are valid but all reasons for it are not.

 

It is only your opinion..it is by no stretch of the imagination a final word.

 

Plenty have claimed that any reason against AC switching are baseless and false.

 

Both contentions are actually incorrect IMO. There are valid reasons pro and con, and pretending otherwise because you support one side or the other does not further the discussion or make it more or less likely it will happen.

[LordArtemis]

AC swapping would hurt the game. You would get people leveling a DPS to 50/55, deciding to go tank/healer, and get a completely new set of skills (outside of the basic smuggler/BH/Knight etc skillset) and have no idea how to use them.

 

That is why you get only a few skills per level. It gives you time to learn what to use and when to use it, and makes you a better player when you get to the max level. By giving you a few skills each level, it makes it easy to learn your class. If you swap classes you get a bunch of new skills all at once and have to figure out each one, then decide to try to heal or tank in a HM FP/Ops etc, you won't have the time to figure out each skill and will likely get your group wiped.

 

BW has no reason to add this in. The argument that it will encourage people to try new classes doesn't work, because they already have ways to get people to try new classes without adding this. Personal Stories, swapping from LS to DS and DS to LS are already in the game to encourage people to have alts. If you make a Sentinel, but decide you want to tank and don't want to level up a Jedi Knight again, you can roll a Trooper. If you have a Gunslinger, but decide you want to heal and don't want to level up a Smuggler again, roll a Sage.

 

Bioware would lose money on this, because instead of a player deciding he/she doesn't like their current class and rerolling, they could simply talk to an NPC or click a button and presto, class swapped. Bioware would lose out on all that playing time of leveling up and possibly subbing or buying CC. From my experience with Bioware/EA, not a chance they would do anything that would cost them money.

 

When you create a character, you are able to watch gameplay videos of your class and view the Advanced Classes at the character creation screen. When choosing an advanced class, you get a detailed description of each, what roles they play, weapons they can wield, armor they can use. You can view the entire skill tree. BW went out of their way to show you the differences and tried to make damn sure you chose the class you wanted. It's not their fault if you decide later on you don't like your class, or want a different role. That's why you get more than one character slot, even F2P.

 

Not trying to insult anyone here or insinuate these are the only reasons someone would want an AC change, but this is almost 100 pages now and I don't have the time or motivation to read all the posts. This is just my take on it.

 

Fair enough. Though I do not agree with all of your points I am not a big fan of late game AC change. I am more willing to consider early game AC change, say shortly after you first choose the AC. Maybe before level 16.

[KorathTheCool]

Fair enough. Though I do not agree with all of your points I am not a big fan of late game AC change. I am more willing to consider early game AC change, say shortly after you first choose the AC. Maybe before level 16.

 

I would be OK with this. Gives players time to learn more and experience their class to decide whether or not they want to keep it. I would prefer no class changes period but this wouldn't be the end of the world. Of course, it doesn't take THAT long to reroll a character to 16 anyway, but I suppose if you just started the game it could seem a bit daunting.

[LordArtemis]

I would be OK with this. Gives players time to learn more and experience their class to decide whether or not they want to keep it. I would prefer no class changes period but this wouldn't be the end of the world. Of course, it doesn't take THAT long to reroll a character to 16 anyway, but I suppose if you just started the game it could seem a bit daunting.

 

That's the real thing. Someone pointed out that it would not be as big a deal for a max level character to roll a new character since the content is fresh...but for a player that just leveled up to 10 and chose the wrong AC or discovered they didn't like it, it would probably be grating to repeat the content that soon after completing it. Especially if that is the first character the player has ever created it may not create a good feeling for the game.

 

Allowing a change before level 16 would allow that player to give the AC a trial run to see if they like it. I suggested that if they chose to change the AC they should probably get demoted back to level 10.

 

There is also some talk about max level characters choosing a new AC and getting demoted to level 10 as a result. They would not lose things like rep, money, achievements, crafting levels, etc...but would lose everything else.

Edited June 14, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Beaunidle]

Having thought about it I'm fine with AC switching with 1 proviso :-

 

AC reset also resets level to 10.

[KorathTheCool]

That's the real thing. Someone pointed out that it would not be as big a deal for a max level character to roll a new character since the content is fresh...but for a player that just leveled up to 10 and chose the wrong AC or discovered they didn't like it, it would probably be grating to repeat the content that soon after completing it. Especially if that is the first character the player has ever created it may not create a good feeling for the game.

 

Allowing a change before level 16 would allow that player to give the AC a trial run to see if they like it. I suggested that if they chose to change the AC they should probably get demoted back to level 10.

 

There is also some talk about max level characters choosing a new AC and getting demoted to level 10 as a result. They would not lose things like rep, money, achievements, crafting levels, etc...but would lose everything else.

 

I feel like the level 10 reset would be needed, but would make this too complicated for BW to incorporate into the game properly, not to mention the amount of people against it. I don't see it happening.

[LordArtemis]

Having thought about it I'm fine with AC switching with 1 proviso :-

 

AC reset also resets level to 10.

 

Yea, I think I might be willing to support it if it meant a demotion to level 10.

[branmakmuffin]

Yea, I think I might be willing to support it if it meant a demotion to level 10.

With that limitation, it might as well not even be there at all. Such a suggestions smacks of passive-aggressiveness.

 

Can you name one other game that allows a PERMANENT class choice to be undone and players can change class wily nilly?

You keep saying "permanent" as if BWEA couldn't change things to make it non-permanent.

 

You could sell a 2,000,000% xp boost in the CM to get an instant level 50. Development time would be pretty darn quick. People would spend money on it. "More money than it costs to implement" doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You are failing to take into account that a feature's overall money-making potential has to be taken into consideration. Such a feature might very well cause too many people to quit, thus costing more money than it brings in. And that is certainly possible with AC swap. There's a big difference between "insta-level to cap" and "switching this character over to the other sub-class of the character's current basic class."

 

And you are still mistakenly assuming or believing that BWEA's goal is to make a good game as opposed to making money. They want to provide as little product and/or service for as little cost as they can get away with and still keep players paying and playing. That's it. The trick for them is finding that balance.

Edited June 14, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Ratajack]

I think plenty of points have been made as to how it could improve the game, with just as much validity as those that are against it.

 

1) People make the wrong choices in AC

Especially early after choosing the AC, if someone discovers they have chosen the wrong AC they are either stuck with that AC or have to reroll and play through the content they JUST played through all over again. It's one thing to reroll a new AC at 55...it's quite another to do so at level 10, especially if this is your first character.

 

An early class change would be better than a late class change. I do think that if they were ever to allow class changes, then clanging class should reset that character back to level 10, thus allowing those players who have a great deal of time invested into character to keep their crafting skills, money, any items that may no longer be available, etc. while at the same time providing the time to learn the new class as they level it.

 

 

2) Choice is generally preferred by players in the genre

This has been demonstrated in the market time and time again, not to mention that the game did not fare well out of the gate, and one of the reasons often cited by launch players was that the game did not allow customization or choice. It is well known that the prior team was very much against allowing choices other than the ones they allowed by design.

 

I agree that choice is generally preferred, but I think that allowing choice in COSMETIC areas is far different than allowing choice in areas that affect fundamental mechanics.

 

3) Easier for folks to change over from DPS to pure healing or tank ACs

It can be argued that there are too may DPS characters in this game, and that DPS tend to have a problem getting in groups. For max level it may be adventurous to allow folks to be able to change their AC to one of the ones that perform better as a healer or tank, since some ACs do not support those roles very well. This could cause more healers and tanks to be available for groups.

 

Every class that has the capability to tank or heal already has the ability to change from DPS to pure heals or pure tank by changing specs. Are some healing classes better at AOE healing while some are better at single target healing? Yes, but allowing class changes will not change the type of healing your class performs best. The same goes for tanking. The devs designed this game so that no single character can fill every role in the trinity and allowing class changes would allow every role in the trinity to be performed by 4 basic classes, leaving 4 basic classes very possible underrepresented.

 

4) Players would be more likely to level characters that are currently stagnant due to the wrong AC choice

This again refers to early change, the one that I am most likely to support, if any. I personally have a smuggler that sits at level 15 and has not been leveled since launch. I chose the wrong AC and simply made the character a crafter. Allowing an EARLY change would allow me to correct my bad AC choice and actually experience the smuggler story.

 

I'm with you on this one.

 

 

I would also point out that making the contention that players will ask for more is not a completely reputable contention. There are plenty of examples where players complained about how things were, things changed and the playerbase was satisfied for the most part.

 

The most recent examples I can think of would be 4 action bars for Preferred players, planetary comms moved to 100 and QT down to 30 minutes.

 

While there have been some examples of the population being satisfied as a whole with some changes, that does not appear to be the general rule. There are plenty of examples of players wanting more even when BW makes changes. Look at the threads about the cost of server transfers, people wanting to lift the restrictions already in place regarding class changes, having to unlock the Cathar, people wanting character unlocks to apply to an entire legacy, etc.

[Anzel]

Switching AC's should be free to all subscribers. Just like resetting skill points. They are my characters and it's nobody's business how I play them.

[Ratajack]

With that limitation, it might as well not even be there at all. Such a suggestions smacks of passive-aggressiveness.

 

This limitation of resetting a character who changes class back to level 10 strikes me as being very fair and a very reasonable compromise. It allows those that have invested real money or what they consider a substantial amount of time into a character, and those with characters who have items no longer available in game to keep what those characters have. It also allows the player the time to learn the new class while they re-level that character thus helping to alleviate any concerns those against allowing class changes may have regarding players not knowing how to play am entirely new class.

 

That sounds like a win-win.

[MajikMyst]

Switching AC's should be free to all subscribers. Just like resetting skill points. They are my characters and it's nobody's business how I play them.

 

Again, you would be incorrect.. They are not your characters and you have no right to play them as you see fit.. Please read the EULA.. (End User License Agreement) You know, that thing you agreed to, to install the game..

 

Bioware/EA owns your characters and Bioware/EA makes the rules..

 

Switching AC should not be allowed.. There is no reason people need to change their class.. Roll another character if you wish.. But changing your class is not needed or warranted..

[MajikMyst]

Well, your entitled to your opinion. It is a bit self serving to claim that all reasons against AC switching are valid but all reasons for it are not..

 

Actually it isn't self serving.. It is fact.. The same outcome can be accomplished by rolling a new character as opposed to swapping your class.. They just don't want to roll a new character.. That is laziness.. Case closed..

 

This is why all the attempted reasons for swapping your class are moot.. Just roll another character.. Problem solved..

Edited June 14, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Superman_AZ]

It's really not that far fetched of an idea. Rift has had Multi-Class for quite some time. There is a whole set of rules in place to allow for it.

 

Rift Multiclassing

 

The basic idea is that your 2nd class must tie closely to your first class, and there are pre-reqs you need to meet and level requirements before it is even possible. Personally, I would love to unlock my PowerTech when I hit lvl 40 and use it as a backup for my Merc side. There could be plenty of rules established ahead of time to allow this type of feature to function in the game.

 

Personally, anyone who outright opposes this is either A) Afraid of change and can't handle the idea of gameplay evolution, or B) doesn't like the idea of others thinking outside the box and getting what they are asking for. If implemented correctly, this could prove to be an invaluable asset to gameplay.

 

The ONLY reason I could see BWEA not implementing something like this would be $$. If someone has the power to double up their character class, it means they will spend less money in the CM which might have been spent for an alt. BUT, that determination should be made by BWEA and not the overly opinionated playerbase.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Superman_AZ
grammar fix