The BattleZone Reboot Round 1 Match 08: Quinlan Vos vs. Savage Opress

[Beniboybling]

Well we can kind of tell that he is exhuming it since when you see him killed you can literally watch the sisters spell flee his body and yes it would instantly put Vos on an equal strength lvl a jedi's strength is almost entirely dependent on the force not on physical muscle (luminous being are they not this crude matter) So even if his mucles looked weaker it doesn't mean anything if he is able to draw on the sisters spell his strength will be the same as Savages. Vapaad was the only reason Windu was able to last more then 5 seconds against sidious let alone beat him. With Vapaad (only the mental and spiritual) feeding him all of Savages brute strength and then his skill with the ataru form he should be able to easily flank and hit savage with strikes just as powerful as savage's own blows with how skilled Vos is in ataru the fight shouldn't last long.

Well given that its a spell, and not part of Savage's own dark side power, I'd question whether Vos can drawn on it at all and would instead simply draw on his dark side power.

 

Neither does Vaapad make you of equal strength to your opponent. It bolster's your abilities that is all. Neither do Jedi rely on the Force completely. In fact only certain forms such as Ataru require the use of the Force to bolster strength, speed etc. And Djem So demanded someone of strong build and tall stature. Clearly physical strength comes into this else the Nightsisters would not have used their magicks to make him more muscled and taller.

 

Vaapad was also not the sole reason why Windu was able to last against Sidious. His personal prowess (which was on par with Yoda's) was why, else Yoda would not have performed well at all. Not that these duels are really comparable, Sidious possess far greater strength in the dark side that Opress does and therefore a far larger pool for Windu to draw on.

 

So really Vos will not be drawing of Savage's brute strength, as that does not primarily come from Savage's force abilities. If that were the case wouldn't those with greater strength in the dark side such as Dooku be exceptionally strong? And wouldn't Yoda's infirmities have no impact on his abilities? Physical strength always plays a significant part in physical ability.

 

And as I've already explained, Vos' lightsaber forms are ineffective against Opress' lightsaber techniques. Savage is rock to Vos' scissors. He won't be able to put up a strong defense like Kenobi and Anakin whom wielded Djem So and Soresu. Instead he'll falter like Adi Gallia did (who wields Shien) and Dooku did (who wields Makashi.) He lack of any real defense is going to be a sore weakness when Opress pushes him on a constant defensive. On the other hand Opress' saberstaff affords him an excellent defense.

[Aurbere]

[/color]Swift flank? What like this? Yes I realise that Maul is vastly more skilled with the lightsaber than Savage but you should take note how effortlessly Maul uses his double-bladed saber to deflect attacks from all directions, the move is minimal and efficient because with a saberstaff that's all it takes. Combine that with Savage's enhanced speed and I'd say outflanking is unlikely. However even if it does happen, Savage's impenetrable armour and naturally endurance will absorb anything that get's through. Nothing short of a stab through the chest will wound/kill him.

 

Umm... that was not Swift flank. Swift Flank is a Vaapad maneuver, not an Ataru maneuver. Swift flank is a quick dash or flip around an opponent that is quickly followed up with a lightsaber strike. Obi-Wan's move did not even come close to Swift flank. Add to that the fact that Obi-Wan is not a Vaapad user.

 

Not only that, but Maul is proven to be a far better duelist than Savage, plus their fighting styles with the double-bladed lightsaber are completely different.

 

Your example is invalidated for those reasons.

 

We should also note that the Sora Bulq incident happened because Bulq was preparing to land a killing blow, it was unexpected. In fact Vos had his back turned and was on his knees (not sure why? were they having some sort of meditation battle of something? ) So I don't think it can be translated into a pitched battle scenario.[/color]

 

Vos was injured and Sora was going in for the killing blow.

 

This could actually apply to this battle because Savage has been shown to enjoy the suffering of his victims. As noted in his battle with Plo Koon, as Plo Koon slowly dies, Savage comments to Maul 'I want to watch him suffer.' If Savage critically wounded Vos, he could share the same fate as Sora Bulq.

 

It was only evidence of Savage's agility, the fact remains that he flipped over Sidious' head. That's agility. Now I'm not going to get into the Vader debate but his displays as speed are now were near as impressive as Savage's and he did have to rework his entire fighting style to compensate for a lack of agility. I think people get the opinion that Vader is slow because well, in the movies he is pretty slow.

 

Actually, Vader has shown equal feats of agility, but we shall leave that for later.

 

But yeah, Savage's size by no means hampers his agility. He may not be roadrunner but the fact remains that the Nightsister magic enhanced his speed among other things. Is this really any different from Vos enhancing his speed with the Force? Not really. So we can only say Vos is faster because of his build. But then again Savage is also capable of enhancing his speed with the Force, which is why I believe in terms of speed neither has a considerable edge over the other.

 

I'll leave that final mark for others to debate.

 

[/color]Of course you didn't, he's that fast.

 

That, and we don't have Force-enhanced senses.

 

In comparison, Savage fairs far better than Vos. He has a far greater endurance while Vos is evidently squishy when it comes to physical blows.

 

I was only pointing out that Vos could put out the power necessary to push back Savage, considering the Whipid Master's size and durability. I mean, K'Kruhk has lived through things most people wouldn't.

 

Edit: I just want to remind you that I'm not debating against you, per se. Merely giving Vos some backing. As I would Savage if the Vos backing was strong.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Aurbere

[tunewalker]

Well given that its a spell, and not part of Savage's own dark side power, I'd question whether Vos can drawn on it at all and would instead simply draw on his dark side power.

 

Neither does Vaapad make you of equal strength to your opponent. It bolster's your abilities that is all. Neither do Jedi rely on the Force completely. In fact only certain forms such as Ataru require the use of the Force to bolster strength, speed etc. And Djem So demanded someone of strong build and tall stature. Clearly physical strength comes into this else the Nightsisters would not have used their magicks to make him more muscled and taller.

 

Vaapad was also not the sole reason why Windu was able to last against Sidious. His personal prowess (which was on par with Yoda's) was why, else Yoda would not have performed well at all. Not that these duels are really comparable, Sidious possess far greater strength in the dark side that Opress does and therefore a far larger pool for Windu to draw on.

 

So really Vos will not be drawing of Savage's brute strength, as that does not primarily come from Savage's force abilities. If that were the case wouldn't those with greater strength in the dark side such as Dooku be exceptionally strong? And wouldn't Yoda's infirmities have no impact on his abilities? Physical strength always plays a significant part in physical ability.

 

And as I've already explained, Vos' lightsaber forms are ineffective against Opress' lightsaber techniques. Savage is rock to Vos' scissors. He won't be able to put up a strong defense like Kenobi and Anakin whom wielded Djem So and Soresu. Instead he'll falter like Adi Gallia did (who wields Shien) and Dooku did (who wields Makashi.) He lack of any real defense is going to be a sore weakness when Opress pushes him on a constant defensive. On the other hand Opress' saberstaff affords him an excellent defense.

 

Windu didn't have as much prowess as people seem to think after all he was on par with dooku of which Anakin beat in fact in one story Windu faced Obi-wan before he went to face off against maul in a sparring match and LOST that match to obi-wan its suggested that he was no more skilled then any of the other masters that went with him to face Sidious.

 

Other then that Djem so also uses massive force enhanced strength and is physically demanding and while ataru is the MOST demanding of the force every single saber skill and every single jedi uses the force to enhance their skills with a blade. Its the reason you don't see non force sensitives with a saber as they would be un-able to handle it.

 

Also according to the original iteration of the nightsisters their "spell" is just a dark side force power that any one could learn and wouldn't neccisarily have to do the chanting for. The chanting is a concentration method for them but every ability they can do can be done by some one else skilled in that force power this is largly just an extremely powerful force valor which the sisters were able to saturate his body with..... this is a force power vapaad will pull on.

 

All in all every jedi uses the force to enhance their physical body and blade skill regardless of what style they are using... and vapaad will certainly allow for Vos to be equal strength to Savage.

[Beniboybling]

Umm... that was not Swift flank. Swift Flank is a Vaapad maneuver, not an Ataru maneuver. Swift flank is a quick dash or flip around an opponent that is quickly followed up with a lightsaber strike. Obi-Wan's move did not even come close to Swift flank. Add to that the fact that Obi-Wan is not a Vaapad user.

 

Not only that, but Maul is proven to be a far better duelist than Savage, plus their fighting styles with the double-bladed lightsaber are completely different.

 

Your example is invalidated for those reasons.

It was more a general example of how Savage with his saberstaff can easily counter attacks coming from behind him with a flick of his blade. I don't think we can completely ignore the defensive capabilities that a saberstaff affords. Nor the speed at which Savage can move. Both would make the likelihood of a swift flank succeeding slim... I mean what are the reasons for its success?

Vos was injured and Sora was going in for the killing blow.

 

This could actually apply to this battle because Savage has been shown to enjoy the suffering of his victims. As noted in his battle with Plo Koon, as Plo Koon slowly dies, Savage comments to Maul 'I want to watch him suffer.' If Savage critically wounded Vos, he could share the same fate as Sora Bulq.

Or it could just end like

Plo Koon wasn't going anywhere at that point so was no longer a threat. I don't think Savage would make that mistake if it was Vos was anything other than completely incapacitated. And given that this fight will end with a mortal wound I doubt Vos would be in any real position to fight back.

 

On the other hand, lets say that Vos someone manages to penetrate Savage's defense and deal a mortal wound. Given the fact that Savage has recovered almost instantaneously from a severed arm and a broken leg, its highly possible that using his pain to fuel his rage Savage might kill Vos as he moves in for the killing blow. This would be a last resort win scenario for Opress. Even if Vos manages to wound Savage, he is by no means guaranteed a win.

Actually, Vader has shown equal feats of agility, but we shall leave that for later.

Flipping over people's heads? Sweeping at people's feet in an intense blur? If so then Vader has well and truly mean overpowered by the EU /sigh.

Edit: I just want to remind you that I'm not debating against you, per se. Merely giving Vos some backing. As I would Savage if the Vos backing was strong.

I know but that's not going to stop me from countering every possible point I can find!

[Beniboybling]

Windu didn't have as much prowess as people seem to think after all he was on par with dooku of which Anakin beat in fact in one story Windu faced Obi-wan before he went to face off against maul in a sparring match and LOST that match to obi-wan its suggested that he was no more skilled then any of the other masters that went with him to face Sidious.

 

Other then that Djem so also uses massive force enhanced strength and is physically demanding and while ataru is the MOST demanding of the force every single saber skill and every single jedi uses the force to enhance their skills with a blade. Its the reason you don't see non force sensitives with a saber as they would be un-able to handle it.

 

Also according to the original iteration of the nightsisters their "spell" is just a dark side force power that any one could learn and wouldn't neccisarily have to do the chanting for. The chanting is a concentration method for them but every ability they can do can be done by some one else skilled in that force power this is largly just an extremely powerful force valor which the sisters were able to saturate his body with..... this is a force power vapaad will pull on.

 

All in all every jedi uses the force to enhance their physical body and blade skill regardless of what style they are using... and vapaad will certainly allow for Vos to be equal strength to Savage.

To quote Wookieepedia:

 

Mace Windu was a formidable warrior and generally considered one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced by the Jedi Order. He was a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat.

 

Nonetheless I'm very surprised that Windu lost to Obi-Wan... because well, that's impossible! Surely their were exceptional circumstances? However it is true that Windu's strength was bolstered considerable by Vaapad, however only because Sidious possessed such great power in the dark side for him to draw on. Vos has far less to draw on.

 

And I'm not denying the Force users don't use the Force at all to bolster their abilities with the blade. But some forms demand it far less than others and physical strength is always a factor. Vos cannot draw on Savage's physical strength so he will not be able to match his output. And the Nightsister spell is more than just Force valor, as it actually physically changed him.

 

Nor does this change the fact that Opress has a considerable advantage in terms of style over Vos.

[Aurbere]

It was more a general example of how Savage with his saberstaff can easily counter attacks coming from behind him with a flick of his blade. I don't think we can completely ignore the defensive capabilities that a saberstaff affords. Nor the speed at which Savage can move. Both would make the likelihood of a swift flank succeeding slim... I mean what are the reasons for its success?

 

I understand your point, but the fact is that a Vaapad maneuver such as Swift Flank is not your average flip or dash. It is a very quick attack focused on catching your opponent off-guard and strikes with great speed.

 

It is entirely possible for Savage to dodge or block the attack, but it is not a guarantee.

 

Or it could just end like

Plo Koon wasn't going anywhere at that point so was no longer a threat. I don't think Savage would make that mistake if it was Vos was anything other than completely incapacitated. And given that this fight will end with a mortal wound I doubt Vos would be in any real position to fight back.

 

Yes, Plo Koon was basically dead. The point is that Savage wanted to watch his dying foe suffer.

 

On the other hand, lets say that Vos someone manages to penetrate Savage's defense and deal a mortal wound. Given the fact that Savage has recovered almost instantaneously from a severed arm and a broken leg, its highly possible that using his pain to fuel his rage Savage might kill Vos as he moves in for the killing blow. This would be a last resort win scenario for Opress. Even if Vos manages to wound Savage, he is by no means guaranteed a win.

 

It is likely that the only real way to kill Savage is to stab him in the heart or remove his head. Vos has no issue with such an act.

 

[/color]Flipping over people's heads? Sweeping at people's feet in an intense blur? If so then Vader has well and truly mean overpowered by the EU /sigh.

 

Yes, yes, and yes. Look for Vader's battle for more information.

 

I know but that's not going to stop me from countering every possible point I can find!

 

I wouldn't expect anything less.

 

Remember that the best argument and most likely scenario wins here.

[Beniboybling]

It is likely that the only real way to kill Savage is to stab him in the heart or remove his head. Vos has no issue with such an act.

Sai cha is a pretty rare move to be used in the midst of combat and shiak is primarily favored by Sith. So a amputation of a limb or hand is far more likely.

[Canino]

Sai cha is a pretty rare move to be used in the midst of combat and shiak is primarily favored by Sith. So a amputation of a limb or hand is far more likely.

 

Except that Vos literally dances with the dark side. He falls and is redeemed, and has no qualms with torture, why wouldn't he decapitate? He has been a Sith, and knows much about their ways, so I doubt he wouldn't decapitate.

[Aurbere]

Sai cha is a pretty rare move to be used in the midst of combat and shiak is primarily favored by Sith. So a amputation of a limb or hand is far more likely.

 

Vos has always treaded close to the Dark Side. While the move is not practical mid-combat, it should be noted that Vos' history has proven that he will go that far if he has too, and Savage will push him that far.

[tunewalker]

To quote Wookieepedia:

 

Mace Windu was a formidable warrior and generally considered one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced by the Jedi Order. He was a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat.

 

Nonetheless I'm very surprised that Windu lost to Obi-Wan... because well, that's impossible! Surely their were exceptional circumstances? However it is true that Windu's strength was bolstered considerable by Vaapad, however only because Sidious possessed such great power in the dark side for him to draw on. Vos has far less to draw on.

 

And I'm not denying the Force users don't use the Force at all to bolster their abilities with the blade. But some forms demand it far less than others and physical strength is always a factor. Vos cannot draw on Savage's physical strength so he will not be able to match his output. And the Nightsister spell is more than just Force valor, as it actually physically changed him.

 

Nor does this change the fact that Opress has a considerable advantage in terms of style over Vos.

 

The quote you used needs to be carefully read..... it says ONE of the greatest swordsman implying in fact that their were several more including likely Obi-wan, Anakin, Cin Dralig, Kit fisto, Agen, Dooku, Qui-gon, Yoda, and likely several others.

 

Its not impossible if you consider everything that has been shown. 1st several masters have shown to be on par with Windu including Dooku before he became tyrannus...... Dooku was less powerful then he is as tyrannus. After episode 1 Obi-wan likely stagnated do to switching forms and yet Anakin called Obi-wan as powerful as master Windu. This statement would likely be true as it would be based off the sparing matches the 2 likely had (same with the basis for calling Agen on par with him, the one who was the first to die at the hands of sidious.) Since we can take that statement as truth then Obi-wans defeat at the hands of dooku is likely the same thing that would have happened to Windu had he faced him with out Vapaad.

 

These are the aspects of every saber duel that decides the victor

 

1. Strength

2. Speed

3. Foresight

4. Percision

5. Endurance

6. Skill

7. Style

8. Planning

 

A Vapaad user fighting a darkside user can negate the first 5 of these aspects entirely as they are automatically either equal to or greater then their opponent. This would be true of Windu Vs Sidious. Sidious and Windu both used form 7 so style would also be completely negated in their fight. The only thing that would thus matter would have been skill and planning. If you read the book you know that skill wise they were also equally masters of form 7 so that didn't end up mattering..... the difference that was made was Windu's other famous ability Shatterpoint. This ability is what allowed him to plan and create an opening against Sidious and then take advantage of it. The other 3 masters that could likely duel on par with Windu fell to the lack of the first 5 aspects and sidious's speed strength and precision were to much for them to be able to handle.

 

Now on the nightsisters force embewed strength. While it changes the physical body it does not change that it is a dark side ability any one would be able to use spell or not. The Dathomir witches are not able to do anything with the force that would not be normally possible by a jedi or a sith with enough skill. The chanting they do is for concentration like when a jedi or sith lifts their hands, several of them even learn to preform what they call "non-verbal spells". The effectiveness of the chanting as a means of concentration has proven to be incredibly effective as they are able to go above and beyond even many masters of the force with it. As such the force embewed strength is just an enhanced version of another force power that any jedi or sith would be able to do. As such that's a lot of energy that Vos WOULD be able to pull on.

 

So lets re-go over the things that will make the difference in a saber duel.

 

1. Strength

2. Speed

3. Foresight

4. Percision

5. Endurance

6. Skill

7. Style

8. Planning

 

 

Now do to Vapaad (mental and spiritual) Vos will be equal to or greater then Savage in the first 5 catagories. We already no that he is greater in skill. Now lets check style Ataru would be the preferred saber attack style for Vos and doesn't have any real weakness's that Savage will be able to play off of...... savages style is unknown. And finally planning.... Vos seems to be a much more forward thinker then savage.... with a look like this it is highly unlikely that savage will be able to topple Vos, as with Vapaad bring Vos's strength up savage has no real advantage is saber combat to speak of.

[Beniboybling]

Now on the nightsisters force embewed strength. While it changes the physical body it does not change that it is a dark side ability any one would be able to use spell or not. The Dathomir witches are not able to do anything with the force that would not be normally possible by a jedi or a sith with enough skill. The chanting they do is for concentration like when a jedi or sith lifts their hands, several of them even learn to preform what they call "non-verbal spells". The effectiveness of the chanting as a means of concentration has proven to be incredibly effective as they are able to go above and beyond even many masters of the force with it. As such the force embewed strength is just an enhanced version of another force power that any jedi or sith would be able to do. As such that's a lot of energy that Vos WOULD be able to pull on.

 

So lets re-go over the things that will make the difference in a saber duel.

 

1. Strength

2. Speed

3. Foresight

4. Percision

5. Endurance

6. Skill

7. Style

8. Planning

 

 

Now do to Vapaad (mental and spiritual) Vos will be equal to or greater then Savage in the first 5 catagories. We already no that he is greater in skill. Now lets check style Ataru would be the preferred saber attack style for Vos and doesn't have any real weakness's that Savage will be able to play off of...... savages style is unknown. And finally planning.... Vos seems to be a much more forward thinker then savage.... with a look like this it is highly unlikely that savage will be able to topple Vos, as with Vapaad bring Vos's strength up savage has no real advantage is saber combat to speak of.

Concerning Nightsister magic I see were your coming from. But it still remains that Savage is heavier, stronger and larger than Vos and uses his power to fuel those attributes. Vos can use Vaapad all he likes but it won't make him heavier, stronger or larger - nor it he likely to channel all his power into augmenting his strength because that's not his fighting style, instead he'll favour speed etc. So even with Vaapad Savage still has a considerable strength advantage - enough to disable Vos.

 

Now its all well and good bringing up a list of aspects of a lightsaber duel, but its not very accurate, as in a battle often only one of the those aspects is enough to bring one's opponent down. Nonetheless in terms of strength its impossible for Vos to gain an advantage without physically altering his anatomy, and that's not going to happen. Else every powerful Jedi/Sith would be super strong.

 

Speed is something of a non-factor, because Savage is arguably just as fast as Vos and even with Vaapad Savage still has the advantage of a strong defense as well as incredible endurance.

 

Now foresight isn't going to be much use to Vos because as I have said before, Savage isn't going to win through superior lightsaber combat, simply superior strength. Vos may be able to counter each of his blows but if anything that's a boon to Savage, because all he needs is his blows to connect to incapacitate Vos and break down his weak defenses.

 

Precision Vos has an advantage in, but that's again negated by Savage's defensive capabilities, physical endurance and strong armour.

 

And obviously Savage wins in the endurance category, the fact remains that Vaapad isn't going to make Vos any less susceptible to a punch in the gut and a lightsaber wound will be far more painful for Vos than it would for Savage. I think we need to remember that Vaapad does not grant the user super human abilities, Vaapad is an attack form, it takes their opponents power in the dark side and uses it against them, not uses it as a defense.

 

Skill is negated by style, because as I have already explained Ataru has many weaknesses. Namely its lack of any kind of defense, something Savage can easily exploit. Not quite sure how you managed to miss that. I'll also point out again that Vaapad is also weak in defense, Makashi is weak against power attacks and Shien weak against a single opponent. So really Vos has a considerable disadvantage in terms of style, which has a negative impact on the effectiveness of his skill.

 

In a general sense, I see the battle panning out like this:

 

Vos will use Vaapad to bolster his offensive but will still be lacking in terms of defensive and strength. Furthermore Savage's own agility, endurance and defensive capabilities will ensure that the effectiveness of Vos' attack is minimal, absorbing, evading or blocking any thing he can dish out, which in turn will disrupt Vos' tactics when moves and maneuvers will not provide the expected result. Savage will push the offensive and quickly break down Vos' weak defense - while wearing him down in general with a series of physical strikes - and inevitably incapacitate him either through a powerful lightsaber strike or a chained Force based attack. When momentarily stunned Savage can easily kill Vos as he did Adi Gallia. And if Vos manages to evade his attacks he'll find martial attacks ineffective and quickly countered, resulting in his death.

[Beniboybling]

Vos has always treaded close to the Dark Side. While the move is not practical mid-combat, it should be noted that Vos' history has proven that he will go that far if he has too, and Savage will push him that far.

Except that Vos literally dances with the dark side. He falls and is redeemed, and has no qualms with torture, why wouldn't he decapitate? He has been a Sith, and knows much about their ways, so I doubt he wouldn't decapitate.

I realise this but the fact does remain that sai cha is rarely if ever used in the midst of combat, likely because its simply ineffective against anything other than an unarmed opponent. So while Vos may use to to finish Savage off, that still gives Savage time to kill him while his defenses are lowered. And similarly I'd assume that shiak would be difficult to employ against an opponent wielding a saberstaff as the blade tends to be held diagonally, and Ataru tends to favour slashes and chops. Though if Savage is severely weakened it could be a possibility.

 

Now I'm not saying this is how Savage will win. I'm just pointing about that even if Vos mortally wounds Savage their is a possibility that Savage could still kill him.

[tunewalker]

Concerning Nightsister magic I see were your coming from. But it still remains that Savage is heavier, stronger and larger than Vos and uses his power to fuel those attributes. Vos can use Vaapad all he likes but it won't make him heavier, stronger or larger - nor it he likely to channel all his power into augmenting his strength because that's not his fighting style, instead he'll favour speed etc. So even with Vaapad Savage still has a considerable strength advantage - enough to disable Vos.

 

Now its all well and good bringing up a list of aspects of a lightsaber duel, but its not very accurate, as in a battle often only one of the those aspects is enough to bring one's opponent down. Nonetheless in terms of strength its impossible for Vos to gain an advantage without physically altering his anatomy, and that's not going to happen. Else every powerful Jedi/Sith would be super strong.

 

Speed is something of a non-factor, because Savage is arguably just as fast as Vos and even with Vaapad Savage still has the advantage of a strong defense as well as incredible endurance.

 

Now foresight isn't going to be much use to Vos because as I have said before, Savage isn't going to win through superior lightsaber combat, simply superior strength. Vos may be able to counter each of his blows but if anything that's a boon to Savage, because all he needs is his blows to connect to incapacitate Vos and break down his weak defenses.

 

Precision Vos has an advantage in, but that's again negated by Savage's defensive capabilities, physical endurance and strong armour.

 

And obviously Savage wins in the endurance category, the fact remains that Vaapad isn't going to make Vos any less susceptible to a punch in the gut and a lightsaber wound will be far more painful for Vos than it would for Savage. I think we need to remember that Vaapad does not grant the user super human abilities, Vaapad is an attack form, it takes their opponents power in the dark side and uses it against them, not uses it as a defense.

 

Skill is negated by style, because as I have already explained Ataru has many weaknesses. Namely its lack of any kind of defense, something Savage can easily exploit. Not quite sure how you managed to miss that. I'll also point out again that Vaapad is also weak in defense, Makashi is weak against power attacks and Shien weak against a single opponent. So really Vos has a considerable disadvantage in terms of style, which has a negative impact on the effectiveness of his skill.

 

In a general sense, I see the battle panning out like this:

 

Vos will use Vaapad to bolster his offensive but will still be lacking in terms of defensive and strength. Furthermore Savage's own agility, endurance and defensive capabilities will ensure that the effectiveness of Vos' attack is minimal, absorbing, evading or blocking any thing he can dish out, which in turn will disrupt Vos' tactics when moves and maneuvers will not provide the expected result. Savage will push the offensive and quickly break down Vos' weak defense - while wearing him down in general with a series of physical strikes - and inevitably incapacitate him either through a powerful lightsaber strike or a chained Force based attack. When momentarily stunned Savage can easily kill Vos as he did Adi Gallia. And if Vos manages to evade his attacks he'll find martial attacks ineffective and quickly countered, resulting in his death.

 

You made one mistake in this assessment. Thinking that every powerful sith/jedi Isn't super strong. Every one of them have force augmented strength on different lvls yes but still highly strong. The deceiving portion of a jedi's strength is that It has next to nothing to do with their physical body, as the body is literally the smallest portion of their strength. If he were to do as you suggest and put all the power he is soaking up to speed rather then strength...... he would look like a blur to savage as Vos would be as massively fast as Savage is strong.

 

You are also mistaken in thinking that Ataru is poor on defense, one of ataru's greatest defensive meneuvers is actually also an offensive one. Its what makes ataru so dangerous..... its speed. The high speed meneuvers are used both offensively and defensively at the same time both striking opponents from unheard of angles while simultaneously avoiding attacks. If (as you suggest) he is putting all of the power he is absorbing from Savage into speed this will be even more exhasturbated as where they were once equals in speed Vos would now seem nothing more then a blur to savage, and with savages unrefined technique such an attack type would leave him little else to do but force waves which with Vapaad channeling energy into Vos its unclear that even that would do enough to slow vos down.

 

Furthermore your assessment of Savages defensive skills is almost entirely based on his use of a saber staff, but with the precision that Vos has shown along with the suggested augmentation to speed Vos would find little difficulty severing the saber staff and unlike his brother Savage hasn't really shown much skill in a single saber. Even if we are to assume (which its bad to do) that he has the same skill with a single blade he does with a staff he still loses the defensive benefits of the staff as well as being clumbsy by comparison making it nearly impossible for him to defend against vos's abilities, and likely ending with his head being severed from his shoulders.

[Beniboybling]

You made one mistake in this assessment. Thinking that every powerful sith/jedi Isn't super strong. Every one of them have force augmented strength on different lvls yes but still highly strong. The deceiving portion of a jedi's strength is that It has next to nothing to do with their physical body, as the body is literally the smallest portion of their strength. If he were to do as you suggest and put all the power he is soaking up to speed rather then strength...... he would look like a blur to savage as Vos would be as massively fast as Savage is strong.

 

You are also mistaken in thinking that Ataru is poor on defense, one of ataru's greatest defensive meneuvers is actually also an offensive one. Its what makes ataru so dangerous..... its speed. The high speed meneuvers are used both offensively and defensively at the same time both striking opponents from unheard of angles while simultaneously avoiding attacks. If (as you suggest) he is putting all of the power he is absorbing from Savage into speed this will be even more exhasturbated as where they were once equals in speed Vos would now seem nothing more then a blur to savage, and with savages unrefined technique such an attack type would leave him little else to do but force waves which with Vapaad channeling energy into Vos its unclear that even that would do enough to slow vos down.

 

Furthermore your assessment of Savages defensive skills is almost entirely based on his use of a saber staff, but with the precision that Vos has shown along with the suggested augmentation to speed Vos would find little difficulty severing the saber staff and unlike his brother Savage hasn't really shown much skill in a single saber. Even if we are to assume (which its bad to do) that he has the same skill with a single blade he does with a staff he still loses the defensive benefits of the staff as well as being clumbsy by comparison making it nearly impossible for him to defend against vos's abilities, and likely ending with his head being severed from his shoulders.

If that were the case Yoda would be exceptionally fast and strong because he has vast amounts of Force ability to draw upon, enough to augment all his abilities. Yet while the Force is limitless the body is not, Yoda can only sustain battle for a short amount of time before tiring because he is old and infirm. Physical strength has a considerable impact on one's physical ability, you have no evidence to suggest that this is not the case. Savage, if anything, is living proof this is the case. He is exceptionally strong but also exceptionally fast as well. But surely be your reasoning he cannot be both?

 

And while yes Ataru allows the user to evade an opponents attacks it does not allow them to block them and is inefficient in that respect. Vos may be able to evade some of Savage's attacks but given his exceptional speed and natural advantages provided by his saberstaff Vos will be unable to evade all his moves and be forced to block some.

 

In terms of defense I believe that Savage's defensive capabilities are self evident, as I have already explained he displayed excellent blaster bolt deflection here able to momentarily deflect blaster-fire from 15+ opponents from all angles, remembering that a master of Soresu's limit was around 20 shooters. If anything this is a remarkable display of Opress' ability to adapt and natural potential. It took Obi Wan 10 years to master Soresu and yet within what, a couple of weeks? Opress is showing feats of defensive generally associated with a Soresu master. Likewise, in a pitched battle its likely that Opress will quickly learn how to deflect Vos' attacks from 'unheard angles' and adapt to counter his fighting style.

 

In a similar manner I expect Opress could adapt to usage of a single blade, though I'm am not implying he would be particular skilled with it. However this is making the assumption that Opress will have his blade severed which is unlikely given that Opress will be keeping Vos on the defensive and likely overwhelm him fairly quickly. And even if he does, Opress can still rely on Force powers and martial ability to kill Vos.

 

And finally I am not suggesting that Vos will put all his power into speed, but that that will be his primary focus. If he sacrificed strength over speed Savage would overpower him with a single strike. And its implausible to think that Savage won't be able to land a single hit. I think we are also exaggerating Vos' abilities, he may be a skilled Ataru user but he is no master, even when bolstered by Vaapad. On the other hand Savage has proven himself capable of forcing a Soresu and Djem So master on the defensive and even overwhelming them. Vos will not fare much better.

[tunewalker]

If that were the case Yoda would be exceptionally fast and strong because he has vast amounts of Force ability to draw upon, enough to augment all his abilities. Yet while the Force is limitless the body is not, Yoda can only sustain battle for a short amount of time before tiring because he is old and infirm. Physical strength has a considerable impact on one's physical ability, you have no evidence to suggest that this is not the case. Savage, if anything, is living proof this is the case. He is exceptionally strong but also exceptionally fast as well. But surely be your reasoning he cannot be both?

 

And while yes Ataru allows the user to evade an opponents attacks it does not allow them to block them and is inefficient in that respect. Vos may be able to evade some of Savage's attacks but given his exceptional speed and natural advantages provided by his saberstaff Vos will be unable to evade all his moves and be forced to block some.

 

In terms of defense I believe that Savage's defensive capabilities are self evident, as I have already explained he displayed excellent blaster bolt deflection here able to momentarily deflect blaster-fire from 15+ opponents from all angles, remembering that a master of Soresu's limit was around 20 shooters. If anything this is a remarkable display of Opress' ability to adapt and natural potential. It took Obi Wan 10 years to master Soresu and yet within what, a couple of weeks? Opress is showing feats of defensive generally associated with a Soresu master. Likewise, in a pitched battle its likely that Opress will quickly learn how to deflect Vos' attacks from 'unheard angles' and adapt to counter his fighting style.

 

In a similar manner I expect Opress could adapt to usage of a single blade, though I'm am not implying he would be particular skilled with it. However this is making the assumption that Opress will have his blade severed which is unlikely given that Opress will be keeping Vos on the defensive and likely overwhelm him fairly quickly. And even if he does, Opress can still rely on Force powers and martial ability to kill Vos.

 

And finally I am not suggesting that Vos will put all his power into speed, but that that will be his primary focus. If he sacrificed strength over speed Savage would overpower him with a single strike. And its implausible to think that Savage won't be able to land a single hit. I think we are also exaggerating Vos' abilities, he may be a skilled Ataru user but he is no master, even when bolstered by Vaapad. On the other hand Savage has proven himself capable of forcing a Soresu and Djem So master on the defensive and even overwhelming them. Vos will not fare much better.

 

Yoda has shown exceptional strength far beyond his physical size.... after all he blocked blows from Sidious who was more then twice his size speed oh ya able to leap more then 4 times his own hight in seconds while being a cripple..... I would say next to none of his strength or speed are coming from his physical body. thanks for proving my point. His strength and speed are 100% force augemented the perfect example of what I am talking about.

 

And all of that defense is cut in more then half the moment the blade gets cut in half which being the large target that it is wont take long with Vos's Ataru MASTERY (he is a master of ataru not as powerful as yoda but still a master of the form).

 

And once again you are talking about overpowering 2 opponents something he wont be able to do here ..... all of his power will be Vos's.... all of it his enhanced strength comes from dark side powers his body is one big conduit of energy of which Vos can pull on increasing Vos's strength speed precision and endurance by nearly as much as it increases Savage will not have a power advantage here you can just cut that right out of the debate. His physical body is not natural it is force based as such its not something Vos cant use..... and if the energy was enough to alter Savage's body...... there is no saying it wont alter Vos's. Vapaad is more then a saber form....... it literally takes in the darkside energy inside your opponent and you and uses it against your opponent..... In other words the harder you push the harder you get pushed against.... The more strength Savage uses the more it will work against him...... all of his strength is darkside energy it altered his body to fit all of that energy but it is still all force energy meaning that more then 90% of his strength is not natural nor is it mechanical it is all dark side energy all of that Vos can take into himself and return at full power against his opponent.

 

Vos is more skilled, While Savage was able to deflect multiple shots this says nothing for one on one fights or defense skill in fighting an ataru master, let alone an ataru master able to use the only thing savage has going for him (his force enhanced physical strength) against him. Litterally in this fight Savages strength IS his weakness as that strength will do a 180 and just turn on its master, as Vos just redirects all that energy against Savage.

[Beniboybling]

Yoda has shown exceptional strength far beyond his physical size.... after all he blocked blows from Sidious who was more then twice his size speed oh ya able to leap more then 4 times his own hight in seconds while being a cripple..... I would say next to none of his strength or speed are coming from his physical body. thanks for proving my point. His strength and speed are 100% force augemented the perfect example of what I am talking about.

Which is why Yoda cannot keep up fightning for a sustained period of time, and why he lost his battle against Sidious. Also note that my point more the fact that because Yoda cannot rely on physical strength he has to rely on the Force to augment his abilities. And its only because he is exceptionally strong in the Force that he can do that. But of course this has its drawbacks because he can't sustain it for a long period of time. Hence why he lost his battle with Sidious, simply put he was tired.

And all of that defense is cut in more then half the moment the blade gets cut in half which being the large target that it is wont take long with Vos's Ataru MASTERY (he is a master of ataru not as powerful as yoda but still a master of the form).

Skill with Ataru does not equal the ability to make precision strikes as ultimately this is not what the form is focused on. Yes its possible that Vos could destroy his weapon but its my no means definite because his form is not geared towards that. Its far more likely that he will be overwhelmed before he can perfom the complex maneuvers necessary to destroy Savage's blade - given Ataru weakness in terms of blocking attacks. And Makashi's too for that matter. And if physical strenght was simply a non factor I ask again why did the Nightsisters choose to augment his physical strength?

And once again you are talking about overpowering 2 opponents something he wont be able to do here ..... all of his power will be Vos's.... all of it his enhanced strength comes from dark side powers his body is one big conduit of energy of which Vos can pull on increasing Vos's strength speed precision and endurance by nearly as much as it increases Savage will not have a power advantage here you can just cut that right out of the debate. His physical body is not natural it is force based as such its not something Vos cant use..... and if the energy was enough to alter Savage's body...... there is no saying it wont alter Vos's. Vapaad is more then a saber form....... it literally takes in the darkside energy inside your opponent and you and uses it against your opponent..... In other words the harder you push the harder you get pushed against.... The more strength Savage uses the more it will work against him...... all of his strength is darkside energy it altered his body to fit all of that energy but it is still all force energy meaning that more then 90% of his strength is not natural nor is it mechanical it is all dark side energy all of that Vos can take into himself and return at full power against his opponent.

 

Vos is more skilled, While Savage was able to deflect multiple shots this says nothing for one on one fights or defense skill in fighting an ataru master, let alone an ataru master able to use the only thing savage has going for him (his force enhanced physical strength) against him. Litterally in this fight Savages strength IS his weakness as that strength will do a 180 and just turn on its master, as Vos just redirects all that energy against Savage.

Well were going to have to agree to disagree on that point to avoid going around in circles. However if what your suggesting was the case then Vos would logically be able to defeat any user of the dark side, which I find hard to believe. Nor is it at all possible that Vaapad could be used to mimic the spell, there is a reason that only Nightsister shamans can conjure spirit ichor, it requires concentration and skilled, pouring dark side energy into someone isn't enough. Its also an assumption that spirit ichor can be drawn upon by Vaapad at all, as it is not the same as just Force energy and IMO is 'locked' in Savage's body. Else using Vaapad would cause Savage to revert to his original form which is highly unlikely to happen. In a similar manner Vaapad could not be used to 'drain' the energy from a imbued totem, Vos may not even be able to recognize the spirit ichor as it is essentially distinct from Savage's own pool of dark side energy. So I stand my by belief that Vos can only draw on Savage's natural dark side power and his rage. But I'll leave Aurbere to decide on that one.

 

And the fact remains that Vaapad (both in terms of form and spirtually/mentally) is an offensive form so while it may augment is offense it will not augment his naturally weak defense.

 

EDIT: We also have to remember that there is a limit to how much energy Vos can channel. Yes he has supposedly mastered the spiritual aspect of Vaapad but he does not possess exceptional affinity with the Force so as a conduit the amount of 'voltage' he can take is limited.

 

EDIT: I think in general we are confusing Vaapad for Force drain - there is a significant distinction.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

Which is why Yoda cannot keep up fightning for a sustained period of time, and why he lost his battle against Sidious. Also note that my point more the fact that because Yoda cannot rely on physical strength he has to rely on the Force to augment his abilities. And its only because he is exceptionally strong in the Force that he can do that. But of course this has its drawbacks because he can't sustain it for a long period of time. Hence why he lost his battle with Sidious, simply put he was tired.Skill with Ataru does not equal the ability to make precision strikes as ultimately this is not what the form is focused on. Yes its possible that Vos could destroy his weapon but its my no means definite because his form is not geared towards that. Its far more likely that he will be overwhelmed before he can perfom the complex maneuvers necessary to destroy Savage's blade - given Ataru weakness in terms of blocking attacks. And Makashi's too for that matter. And if physical strenght was simply a non factor I ask again why did the Nightsisters choose to augment his physical strength?

Well were going to have to agree to disagree on that point to avoid going around in circles. However if what your suggesting was the case then Vos would logically be able to defeat any user of the dark side, which I find hard to believe. Nor is it at all possible that Vaapad could be used to mimic the spell, there is a reason that only Nightsister shamans can conjure spirit ichor, it requires concentration and skilled, pouring dark side energy into someone isn't enough. Its also an assumption that spirit ichor can be drawn upon by Vaapad at all, as it is not the same as just Force energy and IMO is 'locked' in Savage's body. Else using Vaapad would cause Savage to revert to his original form which is highly unlikely to happen. In a similar manner Vaapad could not be used to 'drain' the energy from a imbued totem, Vos may not even be able to recognize the spirit ichor as it is essentially distinct from Savage's own pool of dark side energy. So I stand my by belief that Vos can only draw on Savage's natural dark side power and his rage. But I'll leave Aurbere to decide on that one.

 

And the fact remains that Vaapad (both in terms of form and spirtually/mentally) is an offensive form so while it may augment is offense it will not augment his naturally weak defense.

 

EDIT: We also have to remember that there is a limit to how much energy Vos can channel. Yes he has supposedly mastered the spiritual aspect of Vaapad but he does not possess exceptional affinity with the Force so as a conduit the amount of 'voltage' he can take is limited.

 

EDIT: I think in general we are confusing Vaapad for Force drain - there is a significant distinction.

 

You are miss interpreting me It creates a superconducting Loop he doesn't drain his opponents energy he uses it...... The difference being he doesn't make his opponent weaker he just makes himself stronger....... and like any Vaapad user he cant defeat any darkside user only dark side users of which he is more skilled then.... Just like Windu can defeat sidious despite the even skill and sidious being massively more powerful by being the loop he could continue the fight with sidious indeffinately till shatterpoint helped him find a weakness. Here Vos doesn't need shatterpoint as by comparison Savage is no where near as skilled an opponent.

[Beniboybling]

You are miss interpreting me It creates a superconducting Loop he doesn't drain his opponents energy he uses it...... The difference being he doesn't make his opponent weaker he just makes himself stronger....... and like any Vaapad user he cant defeat any darkside user only dark side users of which he is more skilled then.... Just like Windu can defeat sidious despite the even skill and sidious being massively more powerful by being the loop he could continue the fight with sidious indeffinately till shatterpoint helped him find a weakness. Here Vos doesn't need shatterpoint as by comparison Savage is no where near as skilled an opponent.

And here in lies the problem. Vaapad can only draw on energy being actively used against him. Unlike Force drain which can simply draw on an opponents energy regardless of whether they are using it and convert it into power of their own. So in this sense Vos would only be able to draw on the dark side energies Savage is actively using against him, namely his Force rage.

 

On the other hand the spirit ichor that his body is infused with could only be drawn upon via Force drain, because he is not actively using it against him. It's simply a part of his being. Yes he is using the strength and speed it grants him but that's secondary. Its just the same as blood being used to sustain one's body in general. On the other hand if a Nightsister were to user spirit ichor to attack a Vaapad wielding opponent, they would be able to use it against him because that ichor is being actively used against him, while in this case it is not. And likewise if Vos were in close proximity to a dark side user who was not engaging him, he would not be able to draw on said users energy using Vaapad to augment his abilities.

 

So in this case Vaapad will not be fully effective against Savage. Yes Vos can use to act as a conduit of Savage's Force rage and in turn use it to empower his own abilities, but he cannot use it to draw on Savage's natural strength and agility which is afforded to him by the passive, not aggresive, spirit ichor. And because of that, Savage will retain his strength advantage and still be able to overwhelm Vos - though he'd likely do so after weakening him with a series of physical blows.

[tunewalker]

And here in lies the problem. Vaapad can only draw on energy being actively used against him. Unlike Force drain which can simply draw on an opponents energy regardless of whether they are using it and convert it into power of their own. So in this sense Vos would only be able to draw on the dark side energies Savage is actively using against him, namely his Force rage.

 

On the other hand the spirit ichor that his body is infused with could only be drawn upon via Force drain, because he is not actively using it against him. It's simply a part of his being. Yes he is using the strength and speed it grants him but that's secondary. Its just the same as blood being used to sustain one's body in general. On the other hand if a Nightsister were to user spirit ichor to attack a Vaapad wielding opponent, they would be able to use it against him because that ichor is being actively used against him, while in this case it is not. And likewise if Vos were in close proximity to a dark side user who was not engaging him, he would not be able to draw on said users energy using Vaapad to augment his abilities.

 

So in this case Vaapad will not be fully effective against Savage. Yes Vos can use to act as a conduit of Savage's Force rage and in turn use it to empower his own abilities, but he cannot use it to draw on Savage's natural strength and agility which is afforded to him by the passive, not aggresive, spirit ichor. And because of that, Savage will retain his strength advantage and still be able to overwhelm Vos - though he'd likely do so after weakening him with a series of physical blows.

 

I see this argument and I think you have a point.... Now other things that haven't covered

 

1. Vos's Ataru mastery is arguably better then Obi-wan's, Savage's mastery of the staff is less then Maul's.... its pretty much certainty that Vos can and will sever the staff.

 

2. Force cloak and Psychometry once the staff is severed it would be all to easy for Vos to cloak himself and read Savages past discovering every weakness he has.

 

3. Re- force cloak.... with his skill in ataru and Force cloak this should allow Vos to come in and out of combat almost as he chooses allowing him any rest he wishes fueling the rage in Savage that Vos can again use to his advantage fueling Vos's strength and speed while causing Savage to become sloppier with time.

 

So all in all I think the initial attack will end with severing Savages saber then Vos exhausted from the effort of dodging and blocking the massive blows from savage will take the broken hilt and flee hiding himself in the force.

 

Savage will look for him getting more and more frustrated while Vos is able to keep hidden and read Savages every weakness. On the re-engage Savage will be doing so with half a saber against a very skilled aggressive opponent who has intimate knowledge of savages abilities channeling all Savages rage against him allowing Vos to both get the drop on his opponent and able to use his opponents now largly sloppy movements and much weaker defense to take Savage down with quick strikes of Vapaad and Ataru and the precision of Makashi.

 

 

As you can see even with out Vaapad being able to draw on the physical strength there is more then enough syngery in Vos's abilities and enough shown skill difference that the battle would still likely go to Vos.

Edited May 28, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wait a second...regarding Savage's lightsaber, is it even like Maul's or is it just a regular saberstaff? Looking at it, it just looks like one piece not two lightsabers conjoined together. So if its cut in half, Savage won't even have one saber he'll have no saber at all.

 

Maul is the only one who has had a saber, that is actually just two regular sabers connected as far as its seen. Everyone else just seems to have a regular saber staff, that is just a single hilt only bigger.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Wait a second...regarding Savage's lightsaber, is it even like Maul's or is it just a regular saberstaff? Looking at it, it just looks like one piece not two lightsabers conjoined together. So if its cut in half, Savage won't even have one saber he'll have no saber at all.

 

Oh hell if that's the case then Vos is pretty much ensured the victory.

[Aurbere]

I believe the Nightsisters draw their power from the dark side. They believe that the spirits are responsible for their "spells," but it is actually the Force that is responsible.

 

They are descendants of the rogue Jedi Allya, who taught her children the Force. They unknowingly use the Dark Side.

 

It should also be noted that certain Sith Rituals require encantations and the like, take that as you will.

 

Carry on.

[tunewalker]

I believe the Nightsisters draw their power from the dark side. They believe that the spirits are responsible for their "spells," but it is actually the Force that is responsible.

 

They are descendants of the rogue Jedi Allya, who taught her children the Force. They unknowingly use the Dark Side.

 

It should also be noted that certain Sith Rituals require encantations and the like, take that as you will.

 

Carry on.

 

This is absolutely correct..... 1 thing should be noted though while incantations were used in sith rituals the Sisters used incantation for everything. The "spirit of ithor" is just the force in reality and Allya was not known for knowing sith magic as such the thing they learn from cant teach them general sith rituals ..... they have no place to learn those from as such the sisters spell is just another standard force power.... as all of there stuff is.

[Beniboybling]

I see this argument and I think you have a point.... Now other things that haven't covered

 

1. Vos's Ataru mastery is arguably better then Obi-wan's, Savage's mastery of the staff is less then Maul's.... its pretty much certainty that Vos can and will sever the staff.

 

2. Force cloak and Psychometry once the staff is severed it would be all to easy for Vos to cloak himself and read Savages past discovering every weakness he has.

 

3. Re- force cloak.... with his skill in ataru and Force cloak this should allow Vos to come in and out of combat almost as he chooses allowing him any rest he wishes fueling the rage in Savage that Vos can again use to his advantage fueling Vos's strength and speed while causing Savage to become sloppier with time.

 

So all in all I think the initial attack will end with severing Savages saber then Vos exhausted from the effort of dodging and blocking the massive blows from savage will take the broken hilt and flee hiding himself in the force.

 

Savage will look for him getting more and more frustrated while Vos is able to keep hidden and read Savages every weakness. On the re-engage Savage will be doing so with half a saber against a very skilled aggressive opponent who has intimate knowledge of savages abilities channeling all Savages rage against him allowing Vos to both get the drop on his opponent and able to use his opponents now largly sloppy movements and much weaker defense to take Savage down with quick strikes of Vapaad and Ataru and the precision of Makashi.

 

 

As you can see even with out Vaapad being able to draw on the physical strength there is more then enough syngery in Vos's abilities and enough shown skill difference that the battle would still likely go to Vos.

Before I begin I'll just respond to what Wolf said. This is actually not the case. Originally saberstaffs consisted of a single lightsaber mechanism e.g. Exar Kun's weapon. However in later years the design was simplified, consisting of two separate lightsabers connected at the pommel. The older variant at that point presumably became extremely rare. And given the size of Opress' weapon, I'd assume it was of the modern variant. Its highly unlikely to be of the older variant else the hilt would be significantly smaller.

 

But to address tunewalkers points:

 

 

1. Its possible, but not exactly relevant. We should note that it wasn't Obi-Wan's practice of Ataru specifically that allowed him to break Savage's weapon, but his own general ability. In fact I'd say it was more Maul's style if anything that led to his blade's destruction. His Juyo consists of precise taps and jabs which are quick but staccato i.e. filled with pauses. This provides numerous openings for an opponent to strike and reflects on Juyo's natural lack of defense. On the other hand, Savage favors far more fluid, pinwheeling strikes and slashes, leaving less openings for Vos to exploit. And given that Savage's form focus's on overpowering, Vos may be too distracted maintaining a defense to perform such a complex maneuver .
    
    
   
2. I think we are overestimating the abilites of pschyometry, not only does it often fail to reap rewards in open battle but it only tells the user the history of that object. So all Vos will see are brief images of Savage fighting the likes of Anakin, Obi Wan, Adi etc. which will only tell him what he already knows. I can think of no notable weaknesses that Vos can learn from Savage that can be used against him. Any such weaknesses will be evident in battle.
    
    
   
3. Not exactly, Force cloak requires a measure of concentration so I'd assume he'd need a reprieve from fighting in order to pull it off effectively. And in open battle it tends not to work. Any attempt to use it in the midst of battle would likely break his concentration and allow Savage to penetrate his defense.
   

 

And if Vos frustrates Savage its more than possible that Savage will overwhelm him with a single strike before Vos can channel his rage into a sufficient defense. IMO, I think the battle will be over before Vos can destroy Savage's blade and if he manages too Savage is likely to lash out with a Force push which could potentially incapacitate Savage and lead to his death.

[Beniboybling]

I believe the Nightsisters draw their power from the dark side. They believe that the spirits are responsible for their "spells," but it is actually the Force that is responsible.

 

They are descendants of the rogue Jedi Allya, who taught her children the Force. They unknowingly use the Dark Side.

 

It should also be noted that certain Sith Rituals require encantations and the like, take that as you will.

 

Carry on.

I would disagree, spirit ichor supposedly comes from the Winged Goddess. And that is just another name for the Daughter, the embodiment of the light side. However it was said that Savage Opress was 'subjected to the dark magicks of the Fanged God' which is another name for the Son - the embodiment of the darkside. So its entirely possible that they draw power from the light side and the dark side.

 

Either way Savage Opress is imbued with dark side power, I'm not denying that. But this power is not his own and is not been actively used against Vos. Just making my position clear.