Events bringing the trolls out from under their bridges, and how to fix it.

[Stib_]

I totally agree with the OP. It's sad there are people that can't see the other side of things, only theirs. (targeted at gankers and griefers)

 

I wish there was a system that would substract money, exp, valor, and achievment points from players, that attack another player without expertise. You want to gank a non-pvp player? Then lose big time!

 

Fight people suited for you, that want to pvp, and leave the pve players alone!

Edited May 23, 2013 by Stib_

[Stib_]

From the way I understand the OP, in the Gree Event, there is a PVE quest that requires you to go into the PVP area. Making it not completable if you don't want to be autoflagged for PVP. Most on here jumped on the "I don't want to PVP" part, and not what he was actually saying. The OP wants to finish a PVE quest, but can't because it takes him through a PVP area to finish it, because he doesn't want to get murdered by those who want to be there.

 

You understand it right. The gankers/griefers are defending their position with "its a pvp quest, because its named pvp, and its in a pvp area, and rewards warzone comms", but they refuse to see, that the quest itself is by design a pve one, not a pvp one. So its a pve quest in a pvp area.

[Levity]

Some background. I just started playing SWTOR a few months ago, and when the last Gree event came along I was not high enough level on my first toon to participate. Ever since then, I've been very excited at the prospect of joining in on a community-wide event, as those types of things are rarely seen outside of MMOs. When this current session of the Gree event was announced, I worked very hard to get my second toon (the first is already 55), up to a minimum of level 45 so I could participate in the event from both sides, Republic and Imperial. My expectation was that events like these would bring out the best in a community, and foster the sort of connection, esprit de corps, and cooperation that you'd see in other less involved events in other types of communities, but on a vast MMO scale. Imagine my disappointment... my frustration really... as instead seeing perhaps some of the worst sorts of behavior in gaming communities on display as the most constant and memorable fixture of this event.

 

First, let me say that I recognize that no all players are bad. In fact, the overhelming majority just go into this event intending to quest, at minumum, as if it was any other mission series or dialies. There are, however, a small but fiercely dedicated percentage that insist on doing whatever they can to ruin other people's fun. Much of this problem, I think, stems from a set of contradictory goals for players... largely from the "PvP" section of the event.

 

There are two missions which are flagged as "PvP," and occur only within the PvP area, but are, ostensibly, PvE missions... requiring no intra-player activity whatsoever to complete. If not for occuring in a PvP area, there is nothing "PvP" about these missions. Most players take these missions and do exactly what they objectives tell them to do. Go here, kill some droids, go home. However, as you'd expect, there are players who will forego any missions or objectives, and merely walk around killing other unsuspecting players who are only there to quest.

 

Now, I have heard arguements from dedicated PvP'ers that walking into a PvP area should cause some expectation of being attacked and killed by other players. While I understand the arguement, the counterarguements are simply too numerous to bother repeating here. Because the missions do not require any interaction between players, ultimately, there is a conflict of interest here. Questers, which make up the vast majority of players (significantly moreso on the PvE server I am on), only go into the PvP area because a quest tells them too, and the quest has nothing to do with PvP combat. Dedicated PvP players go into the PvP area specifically because their intended targets do not fight back, which makes working towards otherwise difficult achievements much much easier.. and of course griefers merely go into the area to ensure that other players simply can't complete their mission objectives. In other words "griefers gonna grief."

 

There is no reason, and no reward, for a quester to attack another player in the PvP zone nor any reason to believe they'll be attacked at random while working mission objectives, and PvP players get no reward other than progress toward an achievement. Unsuspecting PvE'ers make an easy target for a dedicated group of PvP'ers.

Ultimately, this has lead to a situation of predation on questers, and to a lack of any sort of enjoyment in this event for anyone but the most rotten fruit of the community.

 

 

There are several solutions that could be recommended to remedy the problem of conflicting interests.

 

One of the most simple solutions, especially on PvE servers, it to entirely remove the open-world PvP area of the map. Leave the objectives, mind you, but simply remove the automatic flagging for free-for-all PvP. Since the quests do not require any player-on-player action as it is, it changes nothing in regards to how the quest is run. While certainly this removes some of the enjoyment from predatory PvP players and griefers, it's otherwise universally beneficial for the whole server. However, my feeling is that this does remove an opportunity for some honest PvP action for PvP players looking for some event-worthy experiences.

 

A second solution. Simply rework the missions so that all current missions occur outside the dedicated PvP arena. Since the objectives are PvE objectives anyway, there's no real reason to have them occur in the PvP arena at all. This lets PvP players keep their arena, including the FFA fights, ... not much different than having the Outlaw's Den on Tattooine... but ensures PvE questers have no reason to go in there. But here too is a missed opportunity.

 

A third solution. Remove all existing PvE mission objectives from the PvP arena. Leave the PvP quests active in the PvP arena, but beef the missions up to include actual PvP objectives. If you're going to have a mission marked "PvP," maybe it should have some objective that requires you to at least interact with, let alone kill, other players. Maybe build in some sort of FFA group objectives. "Kill X number of opposite faction players." or "Kill X number of your faction's players." Or something more creative. Basically give PvP players something to satiate their bloodlust, but put them on equal footing in engagements with other PvP players, instead of preying on hapless questers to get their kicks. Then, in place of the reworked PvP missions, add 2 new dedicated PvE missions. Perhaps a Heroic 2+, or something unique. This way, PvP players get actually PvP event content, and PvE players have more to do away from the PvP'ers.

 

Now, any of these 3 solutions eliminates PvP player predation and griefing. Any one would greatly improve the player experience during the event and make it something more memorable for interesting missions than for anger and frustration at the worst a community has to offer. However, since they event is being reworked anyway for the future level 55 interpretation, why not take the opportunity to do something better with it, as the third solution suggests?

 

Just going to say... the idea behind PvP is to capture something before someone else... which is just like the quest where you have to capture the node in the middle. That is straight up PvP. No PvE about it. It's 2 dailies. Get over it. Don't go in the PvP area, stay in the PvE area. It's simple I know a bunch of people who got legend without ever stepping foot into the PvP area. And if you must do them, get a group. Wowza.

[_tegrof]

I'm a pure PVE players and while I hate getting ganked by a pvp guy while doing a quest.

 

this:

Unsuspecting PvE'ers make an easy target for a dedicated group of PvP'ers

 

is kinda ridiculous to say....

 

1) there's a PVP title on the quest.

2) you are warned as you enter the area....in fact you get a countdown to turn around and leave.

3) if you think people shouldn't attack you in a PVP area, when you're pvp flagged, you're being foolish.

 

I get that people feel this is a PVE quest, but it's not. It's in a PVP area, labeled PVP. Just because it has an objective does make it a PVE quest.

 

I put forth this...

 

Do you pick up warzone quests that call for "participate in 3 warzone matches" then when you inevitably get Huttball, do you yell at people that attack you while carrying the ball because you feel it's a PVE aspect of the game since there's an objective? Do you get angry when you're in the hypergate one trying to cap a node and someone attacks you?

 

I doubt it, because you realize these are PVP areas. What makes ilum any different?

 

I am by no means a blind "biodrone" supporter of this game, I think it's a buggy pie of crap, but I'm honest and logical and what people complain about with this Ilum thing is just a little silly to me. It says PVP...

 

 

If your problem with it just comes down to how long it takes to get rep...roll alts and do it more, wait till it returns and do more of it. It's a recurring event, you're not supposed to get it all in one go.

Edited May 23, 2013 by _tegrof

[Elly_Dawn]

And this is where PvP and PvE players differ PvP players play for the love of the game.

wow i haven't even really started reading the thread responses yet, and this is the most backward thing i've read all morning, so let me fix it... PvE players play for the love of the game, PvPers rush through or skip most of the core game only to play the bonus content and to grief those that legitimately love the core game...

[jankiel]

I just ignore this section of the event or go in with guild people so no one ganks me. That being said I really don't get it what pvp people see so great about *************** a lvl 49 with 5*55. And this has been going on for some time. I have no problems with getting beaten in a normal fight in the open warzones with 1vs1 but ganking people is just crap. There is no glory in it and it really sucks Gammorean balls on pve and rp servers.. People feel heroic after they gank a lower lvl player? Bleh.

[DarkSaberMaster]

I am not a PVPer. I don't worry about expertise. I'm on a PVE-RP server. I've never stepped one digital foot inside a Warzone. I love questing. I love PVE. I love soloing.

 

But for serious, quit crying about this.

 

This event gives you 4 repeatable, daily, pure-PVE quests, plus another one once you get authorization to enter the Gray Secant. It gives you 3 World Bosses to fight, who work into 2 of the 3 non-repeatable pure-PVE missions. The only things this event contains that you cannot earn without enterring the PVP zone are a non-combat pet (which is dropped from a very rare spawn anyway!) and Warzone comms, which as a non-PVPer you shouldn't care about anyway.

 

If you don't want to risk getting attacked in the PVP zone, there is one very simple solution: Don't do the PVP missions. Do the other 5, fight a World Boss if you're feeling up for it, and call it a day. No one is forcing you to do the two missions which are CLEARLY marked as PVP. No one is forcing you to enter the area that gives you clear warning that you are about to be flagged for PVP.

 

PVP players subscribe too. PVP players buy stuff from the Cartel Market too. This is their game too. You get 9 things to do in this event as a PVE player (5 daily missions, 3 World Bosses and a one-time, multi-planet quest) that do not risk any PVP. They get 2 geared toward them. Let them have their fun, just stay away if it ruins yours.

 

BTW, I do the PVP missions. If I get ganked, I shrug it off, switch instances, and hope there are no gankers in that instance. Its not a huge problem. Travel back down there isn't even an issue thanks to the teleporters. The missions are quick. I do them and get the heck out.

 

Finally somebody who gets it.

 

/standingovation

[HitokiriAkins]

Personally, I have a low view of PVP players, and I have a good reason why. I tried to play Ultima Online back in 1998, because I loved the Ultima Series, and wanted to play with other people. So my dad took me to the store, picked a copy of UO, I installed it, read the manual and in game tutorials...and got ganked as soon as I left the starting area. I rage quit, returned the game and never played another MMO until this one. PVP ruined my experience, and I only play this game on a PVE server because I don't want to deal with PVP.

 

So, yeah, I agree with the OP. Those quests that require you to go through a PVP area in order to get your quest item, like the Gree event or, in rare cases, the HK-51 part, shouldn't have their item in a PVP area. In fact, this should be in the suggestion forum, because that is the place for this.

 

Don't get me wrong, despite my hatred of PVP on principle, I will never tell someone how to have fun. As much of a jerk that you are for ganking innocent players just trying to complete a PVE quest, you have every right to do what lets you have fun. But both the OP and I feel that we shouldn't have to be put in the situation that risks being ganked for no reason other than wandering into the wrong area.

[xandax]

As primarily a PvE player in this game (prefer other games for PvP) .... then it doesn't matter whether you dislike PvPers or not.

It's a PvP quest even if you do not need to kill anybody else, simply because it take place in a PvP area.

 

If you want to advocate that PvP quests shouldn't be in the event, the suggestion forum is indeed the place to go, but to complain about PvP taking place in PvP areas is rather silly and only encourages the PvPers and makes "the complainer" the troll, not the PvPers.

 

Shrug if off if you want the quests, or don't do the quests.

There's no exploiting, no griefing, no lowlifes - it's just playing the game the way it was designed and as intended.

Edited May 23, 2013 by xandax

[Tachenko_Yuri]

And this is where PvP and PvE players differ PvP players play for the love of the game.

 

but for some random reason, they play in a PVE server...

 

[xandax]

but for some random reason, they play in a PVE server...

 

 

PvE servers with PvP areas.

Edited May 23, 2013 by xandax

[translucentwolf]

And this is where PvP and PvE players differ PvP players play for the love of the game.

 

PvP players are *******. You can quote me.

[Thundergulch]

The sheer amount of stupidity and lack of common sense from the OP and a couple of others in this thread is astronomical.

In order to complete those 2 quests, you have to enter an area that WILL get you flagged.

If you don't want to be flagged, then DON'T GO IN THERE!

Is that concept too hard to understand?

 

I for one HATE, and I stress that, HATE pvp with a passion.

I've done those 2 quests half a dozen times, 50% of the time I was attacked..... notice I said attacked not ganked or griefed.

And did I come to the forums crying like a little baby? No, I revived, went back and completed the quests because I wanted to.

I wasn't forced to do those quests, I wanted to.

 

The OP voluntarily went into an area that IN BIG BOLD RED LETTERS tells you that you will be flagged, and then he comes in here and cries because he got attacked.

 

Do us a favor, go away.

[Levity]

The sheer amount of stupidity and lack of common sense from the OP and a couple of others in this thread is astronomical.

In order to complete those 2 quests, you have to enter an area that WILL get you flagged.

If you don't want to be flagged, then DON'T GO IN THERE!

Is that concept too hard to understand?

 

I for one HATE, and I stress that, HATE pvp with a passion.

I've done those 2 quests half a dozen times, 50% of the time I was attacked..... notice I said attacked not ganked or griefed.

And did I come to the forums crying like a little baby? No, I revived, went back and completed the quests because I wanted to.

I wasn't forced to do those quests, I wanted to.

 

The OP voluntarily went into an area that IN BIG BOLD RED LETTERS tells you that you will be flagged, and then he comes in here and cries because he got attacked.

 

Do us a favor, go away.

 

Just gonna quote this so it can be read twice by the OP and let it sink in ^^

[Ottoattack]

For the OP you are right about most of what you said. The problem however does not lay in that people are doing something they are not supposed to do, it is the exact opposite. When Gree event was first advertised last December, it was supposed to have on open PvP world, were a group of four people are supposed to fight against others to secure objectives.

 

Needless to say, that there is a failure in design, because the missions themselves are best played by avoiding attacking other players. Some people still want to enjoy what was advertised so they will attack other players, and unfortunately, some will attack other players who have zero chance of being able to attack back due to number, level and/or gear discrepancy.

 

Is it frustrating? Yes. But who is to blame, the players or bad design from BW?

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

The sheer amount of stupidity and lack of common sense from the OP and a couple of others in this thread is astronomical.

In order to complete those 2 quests, you have to enter an area that WILL get you flagged.

If you don't want to be flagged, then DON'T GO IN THERE!

Is that concept too hard to understand?

 

I for one HATE, and I stress that, HATE pvp with a passion.

I've done those 2 quests half a dozen times, 50% of the time I was attacked..... notice I said attacked not ganked or griefed.

And did I come to the forums crying like a little baby? No, I revived, went back and completed the quests because I wanted to.

I wasn't forced to do those quests, I wanted to.

 

The OP voluntarily went into an area that IN BIG BOLD RED LETTERS tells you that you will be flagged, and then he comes in here and cries because he got attacked.

 

Do us a favor, go away.

 

Do you honestly think insulting people and throwing a tantrum will convince anyone to see things your way? The OP is worded calmly and politely, there is no crying involved. The same cannot be said about your post.

[Thundergulch]

Do you honestly think insulting people and throwing a tantrum will convince anyone to see things your way? The OP is worded calmly and politely, there is no crying involved. The same cannot be said about your post.

 

Oh no, my post wasn't written calmly and politely?

Do I need a timeout now?

[AlaricSevGirl]

And this is where PvP and PvE players differ PvP players play for the love of the game.

 

So you're saying PvE players aren't playing for the love of the game. Beg to differ. You are...wrong.

[AlaricSevGirl]

Oh no, my post wasn't written calmly and politely?

Do I need a timeout now?

 

It was really written in an assinine tone...You don't call people idiots. Didn't your mother teach you anything.

[LadyJezebele]

This is just a silly silly complaint and in fact is making you the Troll. I -hate- pvp. Totally hate it. I never -ever- do it. However the Gree event came and CLEARLY the quests are marked PVP. Now you have a choice, you can choose to get the extra rep and muddle through the pvp, or you can CHOOSE not to do the two pvp quests. It is just two whole quests. Most of the time you can do one of them without any hassle so really it is just ONE of the quests that you get challenged on, which is the pylon quest with the orbs. You can CHOOSE to group up, which is an option, you can CHOOSE to try to solo it, you can CHOOSE not to do it at all. These are all CHOICES. Those who love to PVP were given the open FFA pvp event, and they deserve to have something fun to do as well. I have chosen to do the quests almost every time. Most times I complete it without problems and I'm on The Harbringer server which is very high population so clearly it is not out of not having plenty of people to gank me. Sometimes it is just to troublesome or I spent to much time and I say screw it, sometimes I get a group. You have choices, and the fact that the creators labled it PvP tells you that if you go there you might get attacked, you go into the area and you get big red letters on your screen that tells you that you are getting flagged. There is none of this "unsuspecting player" crap. I hate to sound so harsh but you are crying because you don't like the PVP quest, it is simple, don't do it. I don't do the WZ dailies, but you don't see me crying about it.

[Levity]

It was really written in an assinine tone...You don't call people idiots. Didn't your mother teach you anything.

 

If people are being idiotic, then they should know, so they can stop being idiotic. If no one pointed out someones stupidity at times, then the world would be over run by stupid people too afraid to say their opinions. We'd probably end up in a world like that movie Idiocracey.

[TUXs]

I agree, those of us on PvE servers should not be bothered with this Open world PvP sections, if people want PvP, go do your warzones, or change servers.

 

You don't...you CHOOSE to do them. Just as I, a PvPer mostly, also chooses to do Ops at times.

[Thundergulch]

Do you honestly think insulting people and throwing a tantrum will convince anyone to see things your way?

 

As for seeing things my way, I stated fact not opinion.

[Beyondsadistic]

Do you honestly think insulting people and throwing a tantrum will convince anyone to see things your way? The OP is worded calmly and politely, there is no crying involved. The same cannot be said about your post.

 

Why does he need to make people see things his way? The OP is an idiot. It says PvP you get flagged for PvP. They are going to gank you. It's their right if you are dumb enough to walk in there and not be prepared to defend yourself. Maybe they should stop and ask you if you're just there questing or trying to start trouble. That way they can either hand you a flower or drop them on your corpse. God forbid they kill a quester.

 

If I'm in a pvp area and you are flagged, you better duck the lightsaber heading for your head. I don't care, if you're red you're going down.

 

Edit: And I don't care how long his crappy post is. He could write a novel about it. The dude is, was and will always be dead wrong.

 

Dead wrong, see how I did that there?

 

Lol kthx!

Edited May 23, 2013 by Beyondsadistic

[Lunafox]

I don't care for pvp, so I avoid it. It means, that I don't go to warzones and it means, if I see anything marked pvp I don't do it.

 

I'm on a pve server. I spent a year on a pvp server, and frankly got tired of being paranoid all the time, and that feeling of being stalked. My gaming wasn't relaxing, and that's the purpose of what its supposed to be for me, relaxing. So I moved to a pve server and never looked back.

 

That said, I think the main problem is that Bioware has designated the server PVE. People who sign on to play there, don't expect they have to pvp outside warzones, which are optional. I think a PVE server should be strictly a PVE server. I don't think PVP should come into play in an open world situation on a PVE server. It's mean frankly, because there will always be idiots, who think they're 'pvpers' and quite honestly, a pvper on a PVE server isn't.

 

Bioware could solve this issue easily by removing open world pvp and renaming these quests PVE, on the PVE server. No one would get ganked, no one would cry, but I guess that's too much trouble for Bioware devs to implement.

 

If you designate a server for a purpose, it should be for that purpose. PVP should stay on PVP servers. Real pvpers live there. PVE is for PVE people, and there should be no pvp on those servers, save for the warzones. Role playing should exist without issue on the RP servers. What's so difficult about this concept?