DEVS: What does "unlimited access to all game features" mean?

[curtkram]

well, eric posted this today. if this doesn't help alleviate your concerns, i suppose it will help explain why the devs aren't talking.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6314551&postcount=38

 

The very simple answer to this question is that yes, we absolutely listen to player feedback! However, the answer is technically a lot more complicated than that.

 

I think sometimes players on the forums wish that the process was just as simple as "I want X thing to be like Y" and that we can simply just change it to Y. Unfortunately it is a lot more complex, but I think this could be a good post to give some insights into what player feedback looks like on our side.

 

It happens very often internally where we, the community team, will raise issues to the development team that we have seen from player feedback. This is anything from a bug to just a general amount of criticism on a certain feature. What we help to provide is player feedback in as constructive a way as possible. This way it will give the developers perspective on how you folks are reacting to a system, both the good and the bad, and what you think can be changed to improve it.

 

This is where it gets complex, we provided player feedback, but that is just one small component of everything that goes into when a decision is made. From there, our developers can then grab metrics to see if the player feedback is supported through data. As a random, made up example:

 

"Players are complaining that the Assassin skill "I kill stuff" is worthless and no one uses it, it needs to be replaced."

 

Our developers could pull skill information on every Assassin in our game and validate what % of players are using that skill, or not using it. With data and feedback in hand, the developers also have to consider a few other components, how will it affect the company (if it is tied to monetization), how much development time will it take, if we use development time for this change will it affect something else? In this example if the developers see, using data, that 93% of all Assassins use "I kill stuff" than we can see that most likely it is just a perception issue that the skill isn't good. However, it doesn't mean the player feedback is wrong, it just means that we have two pieces of the decision making process that don't agree and more research is needed.

 

It should also be stated that sometimes there is feedback or ideas that come to us via player feedback that we ourselves love. However from the development side they are very difficult, time consuming, or simply just not possible. Sometimes this can be even be for things that appear like very simple changes to our game when in fact they are quite the opposite!

 

One of our roles as a community team is to pass on your feedback and to act as your voice in these discussions. What is important to understand is that player feedback is just one of many components that go into each decision. I also would note: remember that something like the forums are actually just one small component of player feedback. The community of our game is the forums, social media, and the many, many other players in-game who don't talk about SWTOR on either of those mediums.

 

I hope that gives a bit of insight into what happens with player feedback when it is received. I know it can be frustrating to feel like your feedback isn't always listened to but I assure you that your voice has a seat at the table.

 

-eric

 

 

i suppose my initial speculation, since i'm cynical, is that jeff hickman will not tell what his goals are or why he changed them because it could negatively effect monetizaion. it could be that the community managers are not forwarding our concerns to the devs because they don't care, or because there aren't enough posts related to people who don't care for the direction of this last update. maybe you should use more social media darththc. i kind of thought it was because they were all fired, but since eric posted today that suspicion was put to rest. i doubt it would really be difficult to implement the addition of a paragraph from jeff hickman explaining what his goals are and why they changed. they said they would keep doing community updates right? or did they get rid of that when they found out players actually cared about the direction of the game and read them?

[Quraswren]

I don't understand how so many of these posts can be made and the devs don't make any response.

 

This is a thread you can bet they are reading but are way to scared to post in given the backlash they are currently getting along with the rock and hard place they are in.

 

They know things will die down as the days roll by but don't expect any response on this thread.

 

Way to much heat for BW to handle going on for now. Their smart enough to lay low.

[ikinai]

No, the statement is no longer true. It stopped being true on Tuesday.

 

I do not have unlimited access to change hairstyles on my companions. I have limited access to do that.

 

The statement says exactly that I get to use every FEATURE in the game for free with a subscription. Image redesign kiosk is a game feature.

 

I would have to agree with that. I love playing this game, I buy cartel coins, but the statement is quite true. We were told unlimited access to game features, which is not what we have.

[TUXs]

I didn't call him a communist, nor did I tell him to be silent. I merely stated that not everything is free, and since it's something that doesn't impact gameplay it shouldn't even be a concern. I suggested he TRY communism since he wants everything to be free. Considering that true communism involves just that, it seemed like a reasonable suggestion.

 

I suggest you avoid using large words like "communism" when you have no idea what they actually mean.

[jamesvasquez]

Patently false, it's a core RP feature. Now one of the four Bartle types has their update stuck behind a paywall. Who next? Will crafters need to buy gamble boxes full of mats? WIll PVP'er's need to buy weekly passes? Will we have to pony up CC's just to land on planets?

 

So it's a core RP feature that your characters get haircuts and tattoos? Pardon me for saying so, but I don't remember anyone in the films (or books for that matter) spending time at the barber shop getting new haircuts. I could be wrong, but I don't see how it's a core RP feature if it wasn't even around for the past 2 years. How did RPers play without it if it's so fundamental?

[Kilora]

So it's a core RP feature that your characters get haircuts and tattoos? Pardon me for saying so, but I don't remember anyone in the films (or books for that matter) spending time at the barber shop getting new haircuts. I could be wrong, but I don't see how it's a core RP feature if it wasn't even around for the past 2 years. How did RPers play without it if it's so fundamental?

 

You probably shouldn't speak about a topic you know nothing about. Just saying.

[TUXs]

So it's a core RP feature that your characters get haircuts and tattoos? Pardon me for saying so, but I don't remember anyone in the films (or books for that matter) spending time at the barber shop getting new haircuts. I could be wrong, but I don't see how it's a core RP feature if it wasn't even around for the past 2 years. How did RPers play without it if it's so fundamental?

 

Huh...I suggest you watch the films again to see the many hair styles both Amidala and Leia wore.

[ikinai]

So it's a core RP feature that your characters get haircuts and tattoos? Pardon me for saying so, but I don't remember anyone in the films (or books for that matter) spending time at the barber shop getting new haircuts. I could be wrong, but I don't see how it's a core RP feature if it wasn't even around for the past 2 years. How did RPers play without it if it's so fundamental?

 

We had to pretend we got all gussied up or got scars. Which is kind of a meh way of doing it when you could have a nice system that actually shows the new you. Which we kind of have now, sort of, but not exactly.

[DarthTHC]

This is a thread you can bet they are reading but are way to scared to post in given the backlash they are currently getting along with the rock and hard place they are in.

 

They know things will die down as the days roll by but don't expect any response on this thread.

 

Way to much heat for BW to handle going on for now. Their smart enough to lay low.

 

I don't think they're afraid to respond at all. I think it takes time for the community team to get information to the right people on the dev team, then more time for them to consider it, then time to formulate a response, and finally to post it.

 

I certainly don't expect an answer RIGHT NOW. That would be silly and impossible.

[jamesvasquez]

You probably shouldn't speak about a topic you know nothing about. Just saying.

 

And what exactly is it that you think I know nothing of? If it's RPing, then I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken.

[danielearley]

But it didn't say that. It said that items to customize your look would be part of CM. And there've been items that do that throughout the life of the CM and they still exist and that is not what I asked about.

 

What I asked about is this new game feature that is not an item that has now placed a limit on subscriber access to all game features, contrary to what Jeff Hickman said would happen.

 

Once again it would appear you are reading to fit what you think is true

 

This is what he said I have highlighted the important bit

 

The new Cartel Market gives you the option to add to your game play experience with items that fit your play style and allow you to customize your character.

 

Which clearly states customise your character as part of the Cartel market

[DimmuJanKaarl]

Jiminy Tinsel-Fumbling Christmas. I don't even know where to begin. I will start by saying that, except for once or twice just for shoots and giggles, I do not use the appearance kiosks nor do I spend time/money on dyes. Just not interested. I also concede that 2.1 is an in-between update that hasn't (yet) caused a delay in the usual 8-ish week content release cadence.

 

First, I like (read: hate) how apologists constantly redefine words to put a different spin on something that was otherwise very clear. "Features" is features is features. Don't try to recategorize everything that negates the OP's point just to make the quote sound like it suddenly has become true. There can be no question that the appearance designer kiosk is a FEATURE. As far as I'm concerned, any interface/activity/interaction that in any way affects your character, legacy, or account in-game is a feature. Not all features are liked or well-received; not all features boost stats or increase game income; but a feature is a feature.

 

Also, I read some back-and-forth about limits on GTN slots or number of toons. To paraphrase, something was said about "oh should they just allow 1 million gtn slots or hundreds of toons". To that, I say this: prior to f2p, everyone had the same limits. NO ONE GROUP could access more slots than any other. So in effect there was no biased limit because it was the same across the board. Don't argue with hyperbole. It just makes you look stupid and like you didn't understand the discussion in the first place.

 

To add to the ever growing analogy list, it's like your municipal government saying "taxpayers have unlimited access to all roads," then builds a new biway and puts up a toll booth, and their response is, "well it's technically a boulevard not a road; if you want to avoid the toll just use a road around it." Fine there is a new toll booth, but to the OP's point: we have to pay a toll, but issue a statement that says "our original statement no longer applies, and we acknowledge that things have changed. We have added a new road (feature) to which our original statement no longer applies. Sorry, but that's the way things are now."

 

To that, I think many, especially apologists and BioDrones are deliberately trying steer this thread away from the OPs otherwise very simple request: a statement was made and is no longer true; someone, ideally the person who originally made the statement, should give us an update on their position. I don't personally believe he was lying. That would be beyond asinine and moronic to state something that was knowingly false or was known to become false in the future. All the OP asked for -- and I personally do not think it is unreasonable -- is the issuance of a revised position by that person and/or the company as a whole. Did things change? Fine. I love this game and won't stop playing it just because it isn't exactly the same game I started playing at launch, which it clearly isn't. But say something. ANYTHING. The silence (or muffled, i.e., non-specific or vague statements) in recent times is deafening. What is going on? What is the future of subs? What is the current position of the real decision-makers on the state and future of the game? How are sub numbers looking? WHY did your position change. ANYTHING.

 

Finally, I know threads can be negative, but I really feel that if fanbois, apologists, biodrones, and their ilk would shut the flunk up long enough, the devs, etc. might actually see that there are real and valid complaints that need to be addressed and not simply looked over or "put on the list" and give real and meaningful responses other than Soon™ or We're Looking Into It™, and at least not silence. Although the former (Soon™) at least shows acknowledgement of an issue and an ultimate fix.

 

fin.

[jamesvasquez]

I suggest you avoid using large words like "communism" when you have no idea what they actually mean.

 

I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto before you are able to judge whether or not I know what the word means.

[Kilora]

And what exactly is it that you think I know nothing of? If it's RPing, then I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken.

 

Nope. You clearly don't understand the majority of the RP community. If you think you do, I suggest you go into any RP guild or forum post and say, "All this customization is unnecessary. You don't need it to RP. Stop complaining."

[DarthTHC]

Once again it would appear you are reading to fit what you think is true

 

This is what he said I have highlighted the important bit

 

The new Cartel Market gives you the option to add to your game play experience with items that fit your play style and allow you to customize your character.

 

Which clearly states customise your character as part of the Cartel market

 

Yeah, but you missed a key word in that highlight, which I've now highlighted for you.

 

EDIT: It is impossible for one who understands how the English language works to misinterpret that statement. It is clearly telling us that items are coming that we'll use to customize our characters.

Edited May 17, 2013 by DarthTHC

[TUXs]

I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto before you are able to judge whether or not I know what the word means.

 

After reading it, you believe that the thing they were after was FREE GOODS? Is that what you're suggesting?

[branmakmuffin]

People need to read carefully:

 

First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge.

 

It does not say "future game features" for a reason.

[jamesvasquez]

After reading it, you believe that the thing they were after was FREE GOODS? Is that what you're suggesting?

 

I'm suggesting that it was "do your part and you'll get everything you're asking for." In this case "do your part" involves subbing, and "everything you're asking for" is, not to put too fine a point on it, everything.

[DarthTHC]

People need to read carefully:

 

 

 

It does not say "future game features" for a reason.

 

You really don't want to start the "unlimited access to future game updates" discussion here. Please take that to another thread.

[ikinai]

People need to read carefully:

 

 

 

It does not say "future game features" for a reason.

 

Get your legalese outta here, we want to read what we want, and we want features past and future unlimited and unfettered and untarnished

[DarthTHC]

I'm suggesting that it was "do your part and you'll get everything you're asking for." In this case "do your part" involves subbing, and "everything you're asking for" is, not to put too fine a point on it, everything.

 

This thread isn't about asking for stuff... except for an explanation of why the latest update is contrary to the expectation set by the game's then and current executive producer.

[iamthehoyden]

I'm suggesting that it was "do your part and you'll get everything you're asking for." In this case "do your part" involves subbing, and "everything you're asking for" is, not to put too fine a point on it, everything.

And this is why using analogies in online arguments isn't a good idea. This comparison is flawed and now you're arguing about the definition of communism instead of whether the stated plans for subscribers have changed. I have a new strategy - let the analogy go.

Edited for grammar fixes.

Edited May 17, 2013 by iamthehoyden

[badou]

Well because of this i just didnt subscribe when my time ended and i havent done that since beta.I cant go on like this when i am charged for a new species then if i want to change the species i am to the new one i have to pay again :@.Like i said greed is a sin for a reason.

[jamesvasquez]

And this is why using analogies in online arguments aren't a good idea. This comparison is flawed and now you're arguing about the definition of communism instead of whether the stated plans for subscribers have changed. I have a new strategy - let the analogy go.

 

I would, but I have such a hard time letting things go. When I think I'm about to get dumped by a girl, I'll completely fall off the grid so it never happens.

[branmakmuffin]

Get your legalese outta here, we want to read what we want, and we want features past and future unlimited and unfettered and untarnished

I understand that legalese can be misleading, but that's how it has to be read, because that's how it was written.

 

 

You really don't want to start the "unlimited access to future game updates" discussion here. Please take that to another thread.

Dude, read what I wrote. And read what you quoted from that BWEA guy. Read it exactly as written, not as you wish it to be.

Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin