I've never seen a greater sense of entitlement

[Zakaan]

The individual is being pointlessly facetious and rude. Take your own advice and be constructive on the point please.

 

I'd sooner help you grow as a person.

[Zakaan]

they're not free enough!

 

occupy bioware!!

 

that made my night

[enderthane]

so tell me oh wise one..

 

how does one stay one point about cartel market and the cost of OPTIONAL features that everybody is so up in arms about?

 

the reason i'm being overly sarcastic is because the fact that so many FORUM regulars are complaining about features that they don't even friggin need. but yet complain about because of a small gateway of some free coins provided to you via your sub cost.

 

You made a decent point there. I can understand your point of view with that. What many are saying, though, is that subs are being devalued with the cartel market items. The stipend we are given, also, is so small that it is really pointless. Sure, you can save up, but the psychology they play on is that most people will want something right away, and they will have almost enough, so buying a few coins to get it seems like a good deal.

 

Remember, this is the company who's CEO said " If you are playing Battlefield, and you are 6 hours into it, you are invested. So if you run out of ammo, and we say it will cost you a dollar to reload, you will do it without thinking about it. You will just do it" or some such to that effect. True story. This is where most people are getting their anger from. They are seeing this kind of attitude, or worrying about it, comming out in this game.

[enderthane]

I'd sooner help you grow as a person.

 

I dont need your help with that, dont assume you are better than me, please.

[keysmachine]

You made a decent point there. I can understand your point of view with that. What many are saying, though, is that subs are being devalued with the cartel market items. The stipend we are given, also, is so small that it is really pointless. Sure, you can save up, but the psychology they play on is that most people will want something right away, and they will have almost enough, so buying a few coins to get it seems like a good deal.

 

Remember, this is the company who's CEO said " If you are playing Battlefield, and you are 6 hours into it, you are invested. So if you run out of ammo, and we say it will cost you a dollar to reload, you will do it without thinking about it. You will just do it" or some such to that effect. True story. This is where most people are getting their anger from. They are seeing this kind of attitude, or worrying about it, comming out in this game.

 

touche..

 

but you get 600 coins free as long as you have a security key attached.

 

for 5 bucks that only merits you 450 coins.. which means 600 coins is close to 10 bucks of free coins.

 

if you can't budget or spend those coins accordingly that's really on you.

 

if you see a piece of gear you want/love/need to have then you have to understand that either you play the GTN or you save your coins up. it'll only take 2 months and you'll have 1200 coins which by my calculation is almost enough to buy even the most expensive cosmetic gear item. - the bundle cartel packs. and you were going to play the game that long if not longer anyways right?

 

so 60 days of enjoyment in game isn't worth it? or is it you want everything now.. and that burns you. which is it?

 

also note i do wish that the coolest cosmetic items could be earned but that's not the case. but you must understand if you take a look at the ongoing trend a lot of games are moving towards F2P with cash shop cosmetics. and once WOW moves in that direction that will be the final nail in the coffin. what will you do/say when all MMO's move towards this method of profit?

 

not play? which you could do but we all know why people play MMO's because despite the cash grabs and the cheap marketing. MMO's provide cheap constant nearly unlimited entertainment value. you could go out and buy a 59.99 dollar game for your console but in about 6 hours you'll be done and that will be it.

 

to me the value is still in an MMO money grab/cash shop environment at least then i can pick and choose what i want

Edited May 16, 2013 by keysmachine

[Sziroten]

touche..

 

but you get 600 coins free as long as you have a security key attached.

 

for 5 bucks that only merits you 450 coins.. which means 600 coins is close to 10 bucks of free coins.

 

if you can't budget or spend those coins accordingly that's really on you.

 

if you see a piece of gear you want/love/need to have then you have to understand that either you play the GTN or you save your coins up. it'll only take 2 months and you'll have 1200 coins which by my calculation is almost enough to buy even the most expensive cosmetic gear item. - the bundle cartel packs. and you were going to play the game that long if not longer anyways right?

 

so 60 days of enjoyment in game isn't worth it? or is it you want everything now.. and that burns you. which is it?

 

also note i do wish that the coolest cosmetic items could be earned but that's not the case. but you must understand if you take a look at the ongoing trend a lot of games are moving towards F2P with cash shop cosmetics. and once WOW moves in that direction that will be the final nail in the coffin. what will you do/say when all MMO's move towards this method of profit?

 

not play? which you could do but we all know why people play MMO's because despite the cash grabs and the cheap marketing. MMO's provide cheap constant nearly unlimited entertainment value. you could go out and buy a 59.99 dollar game for your console but in about 6 hours you'll be done and that will be it.

 

to me the value is still in an MMO money grab/cash shop environment at least then i can pick and choose what i want

 

People being ok with having less and less of their mmo for free they are paying a subscription for.... . It is really deflating to see people caring so little for their hobby that they take whatever they are being served without questions asked because they are still fine with "something" but to have the nerve to tell other people what they should be ok with is mindblowing.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Sziroten

[enderthane]

touche..

 

but you get 600 coins free as long as you have a security key attached.

 

for 5 bucks that only merits you 450 coins.. which means 600 coins is close to 10 bucks of free coins.

 

if you can't budget or spend those coins accordingly that's really on you.

 

if you see a piece of gear you want/love/need to have then you have to understand that either you play the GTN or you save your coins up. it'll only take 2 months and you'll have 1200 coins which by my calculation is almost enough to buy even the most expensive cosmetic gear item. - the bundle cartel packs. and you were going to play the game that long if not longer anyways right?

 

so 60 days of enjoyment in game isn't worth it? or is it you want everything now.. and that burns you. which is it?

 

Its the direction things are going. I dont really spend my coins on stuff, just little perks. The problem is that the basic psychology is geared towards prying the money away from people. The 600 a month is just enough to almost get things. Most people are going to buy the coins to get enough for the new shiney, because it is justifyable to them. It's like apricetag of $9.99. The price is $10, but our brains read it as $9. It is a real biting thing to see this used against us.

 

Now if we could all look at it in a brighter light; we could make this work to change those pitfalls. If we could use this to change our society's penchant for instant gratification and teach our children to save for things, it could be a tool to learn about credit and responsible purchasing.

 

Not likely, but I intend to try it.

 

What burns me, though, is the assumption that people are being "entitled" when they are voicing that they are angry with the way the pricing of this game is going. It is sliding toward being better for micro transactions, and those can be abused so easily, especialy as the compny has a bad rep in the past.

[Kahotep]

I've never seen so many people use the word 'entitled' as I have on this forum. I suppose it must be the new idiot's buzzword, used to make people of low intelligence feel smug and superior without actually needing to think or say anything genuinely insightful or constructive.

 

I'll mentally add the word entitlement to my list of words I shouldn't use, such as awesome, lame and fail, in case people think I'm the kind of idiot who uses words like entitled, awesome, lame and fail.

[Sziroten]

I've never seen so many people use the word 'entitled' as I have on this forum. I suppose it must be the new idiot's buzzword, used to make people of low intelligence feel smug and superior without actually needing to think or say anything genuinely insightful or constructive.

 

I'll mentally add the word entitlement to my list of words I shouldn't use, such as awesome, lame and fail, in case people think I'm the kind of idiot who uses words like entitled, awesome, lame and fail.

 

Especially since just shutting up and let "the big boys" do their thing has been historically so successful.

[Kahotep]

Especially since just shutting up and let "the big boys" do their thing has been historically so successful.

 

Exactly.

 

This forum is a way for people who subscribe to the game to tell BW what they like and don't like. I am certain that BW genuinely appreciate all the feedback they get, both positive and negative. This is how they get an insight into what players what to see.

 

Everyday however, I see complaints, suggestions and criticism dismissed as entitlement and whining by some fools on this forum. I don't think these idiots actually know what this forum is for.

[enderthane]

Exactly.

 

This forum is a way for people who subscribe to the game to tell BW what they like and don't like. I am certain that BW genuinely appreciate all the feedback they get, both positive and negative. This is how they get an insight into what players what to see.

 

Everyday however, I see complaints, suggestions and criticism dismissed as entitlement and whining by some fools on this forum. I don't think these idiots actually know what this forum is for.

 

Name calling wont help, but I understand your frustration. I have the same frustration, hence why I started posting in here. I would prefer if we could keep it civil, though, please?

[Sziroten]

Name calling wont help, but I understand your frustration. I have the same frustration, hence why I started posting in here. I would prefer if we could keep it civil, though, please?

 

People trying to devalueing your opinion because they are ok with it are indeed idiots, namecalling or not. People give feedback to Bioware, not to a few chosen heros which are standing at the gates of Bioware Castle.

 

All the threads which basically say.... I'm ok, you are not which makes you an idiot so **** already are completely uneccesary. These people could have created a thread and say how they like 2.1 but they chose not to. It's like someone else than your boss/ company telling you what kind of salary you should get without knowing you.

[MeisterBabylon]

Selfishness, self-entitlement and plain old stupidity are as common as hydrogen in the material universe. Which is why even democracies after a while simply stop working because people will just demand things for nothing when they can.

 

SWTOR is no exception. Blizz is no exception. I have not seen any online game forum that is active with posts that isn't full of schtick.

 

I'm happy as long as the game devs never listen to them.

[Cay_Chamma]

Warning! This post contains multiple replies to different people.

Defenitely not the same thing. the reality of SWtOR is that ALL of the changes cost rl money. whether you purchase coins directly or save them up from your subscription, you still had to use rl money to make these changes.

You'll probably consider this a case of semantics, but, I don't consider the 500 CC subscription stipend I get every month as paid for with the money I pay for the subscription. I consider those as given to me for free. You see, I paid the same amount for my subscription long before the Cartel Market even existed. After the Market was introduced to the game, I still paid the same amount for the subscription, but was given CCs every month in addition to what I was getting before. So, to my way of thinking, and apparently to others as well, if you use only the monthly stipend of CCs for stuff off the Cartel Market, you're getting not paying RL money for that stuff.

 

In WoW, if i wanted to make a blood elf paladin with Judgment gear, i would simply roll a blood elf and go farm the set. cost me nothing more than the time to obtain it.

And the cost of the subscription for the amount of time it took you to farm that gear. If you're going to count the cost of the subscription in your equations for SW:TOR, you will have to count them in your equations for WoW as well.

 

Never seen a greater sense of entitlement? Let me give you one piece of advice then - get off your *** and take a business 101 class.

 

Were paying for this game. Entitled? **** yeah i'm entitled. As are you and every other subscriber. This is a business, and its your right as a customer to voice yourself. BW/EA's recent implementations are beyond unacceptable - and you better believe people will complain..

 

I would say that, as paying customers, we are entitled to make reasonable requests. A lot of what I see here is not quite what I'd call "reasonable" or "requests". Some of it is. But then, I've seen the same thing on the boards of just about any Online game I've played.

 

It's like apricetag of $9.99. The price is $10, but our brains read it as $9. It is a real biting thing to see this used against us. .

I do not, and never have, read $9.99 as $9. I have always seen it as around $10. I don't know whether it's your brain or mine that is wired oddly though. Probably mine.

 

Exactly.

 

This forum is a way for people who subscribe to the game to tell BW what they like and don't like. I am certain that BW genuinely appreciate all the feedback they get, both positive and negative. This is how they get an insight into what players what to see.

 

Everyday however, I see complaints, suggestions and criticism dismissed as entitlement and whining by some fools on this forum. I don't think these idiots actually know what this forum is for.

How ever, there are better ways to get that criticism across than by making unreasonable demands. I can understand some of the complaints about the dyes. In fact, I share some of those complaints. I have seen very few suggestions on how to fix those complaints though. Most of that I see goes along the lines of "That's stupid. You're stupid. Fix it, stupid."

 

As for how to "fix" the dyes, at least where the actual mechanics of changing the color of the item in question is concerned, I would suggest making a primary and a secondary color slot on each item. I would also suggest making the color acquisition a little less random.

 

But then, I'm used to the costume creator for City of Heroes.

[Starglitter]

Mmm...

 

The fact with people is that we all have different perceptions of right and wrong ranges, while in general we can agree in the extremes of what is right and wrong.

 

What some view as complaints, others see as product improvement.

 

If a product does not improve, it becomes stale and normal folks cease to consume the product, ergo go play another game in our case, and when enough go to another game the company closes their doors.

 

Unfortunately evolving a game is a dangerous venture, and expensive as well, for there are many play stylles and preferences and if the game designer loses the balance, a massive exodus of players ensues and the company closes.

 

At one time all games were pay to play, and thus subscription did meant: You got all th ebells and whistles

 

When Free To Play came around, somehow the offering companies lost the bubble, and forgot that paying customers were expecting to receive the entire product for the price they were paying. It could be thought as going to McDonalds and getting a value meal at full price, and then being asked to pay extra for the french fries, and as a result you have furious customers as you see in just about every MMORPG who feels short changed.

 

Now if the price of the value meal had been decreased, so you could choose what portion to buy or not would be an excellent cost cutter practice, so instead of payng $5 for the full meal, you pay $4 and if you want fries for a $1 you get them and thus you are given choice.

 

What went wrong?

 

The problem is that MMORPGs still charge the same subscription price they had before they opened up to FTP, there was no pay plan, such as you can get the hamburger for $3, Coke for $1, Fries for $1 and thus you could add up to the $5 of the value meal, sadly instead the kept the charge of $5 and were stupid enough to still call it a value meal, and then had the audacity to charge for both the coke and fries as extras.

 

I tend to believe the FTP came into being because the game company simply could not gather sufficient players to pay the bills and thus had to seek another income approaches, and over time the success of the company store became corrupted by the dark side of the profit force (greed)

 

I contend that they should call what they have today as subscribers as advantaged players, and thus treated as a hybrid FTP and full Subscriber. Then introduce "Full Subscriber", they pay an added, say $5 per month more, and they do have all automatically unlocked as it used to be in the golden days of MMORPGs.

 

Sue

[Themanthatisi]

It annoys me. Go play another game if this one does not please you.

 

That is all.

 

Entitlement would be a F2P player asking for things that subs have. Subs have every right to ask for a better product or service when they are PAYING CUSTOMERS, something you obviously have no clue about. Are some complaints a little much? Yes....

But this update was set up to squeeze every last penny from subs, things like forcing toys to be bound, that we had already been using just fine before the update and left unbound, and for many months, just so you can now BUY it if you want to share it with alts... That is not entitlement from a customer, that's greed from the provider. You DO NOT take away something, that was NEVER reported as a bug, and tell people, now you must pay to use it on other alts. Sounds greedy to me...

 

Plain and simple!

 

Since game launch I made only 3 complaints, and this last update has finally showed me what others were complaining about, and it has become very obvious, BW/EA wants more than profits, they are taking advantage of people now.... Even the colors for Armor, really should have been done without using gamble packs. It is getting sickening.... Soon they will want Cartel Coins just to log in....

Edited May 16, 2013 by Themanthatisi

[Jaing]

... is it entitlement if you just want what they said they would give us?

 

By that I mean the promises they made before they got our money and/or the promises meant to keep us hoping for the future.

 

Currently, I think I've adjusted to most of what was implemented in 2.1. I just want individual item unlocks from the collections. Like Revan's mask for example. I seem to recal that was specifically used as an example of an item that could be individually unlocked across a whole account.

 

I'll pay for that unlock. I'll pay 600 cc for that one unlock, but there aren't any revan's gloves on the GTN on my server (last one was Tuesday morning for 2 mil credits, I regret not buying it), and I cannot unlock the mask until I get the gloves.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jaing

[FormerOrpheus]

the only time i hear about quitting or bluffing is on these forums until i hear it from my guild or people i know in game then i will start to worry about the state of this game

 

as it stands right now i love playing this game so deal with it everyone whining about a customization patch that doesn't force you to spend money

 

Yeah you would think by reading the forums that the game was going to be done by the end of the month, which I imagine some morons actually believe.

[Aries_cz]

Exactly.

 

This forum is a way for people who subscribe to the game to tell BW what they like and don't like. I am certain that BW genuinely appreciate all the feedback they get, both positive and negative. This is how they get an insight into what players what to see.

 

Everyday however, I see complaints, suggestions and criticism dismissed as entitlement and whining by some fools on this forum. I don't think these idiots actually know what this forum is for.

 

Forums should be that way, but if the suggestions were actually constructive, it would be so much more helpful and troll-free.

Plenty of people just go "waaaah, I do not like I have new otpion to use my free coins on, waaaah, this game suxxxx". So to that, you seriously cannot expect any reasonable and constructive answer.

[Shingara]

Forums should be that way, but if the suggestions were actually constructive, it would be so much more helpful and troll-free.

Plenty of people just go "waaaah, I do not like I have new otpion to use my free coins on, waaaah, this game suxxxx". So to that, you seriously cannot expect any reasonable and constructive answer.

 

Those free coins for subscribers, those 500cc free coins that you are not expected to spend, those free coins you mean.

[MajikMyst]

its not entitlement when you are paying for something......Asking for a better product for our money happens in every industry

 

I'd say that less than 1% of the posts or threads are actually well thought out and constructive.. Most of the time it is just people whining about this that or the other..

 

The biggest issue is that people demanded that this game go F2P.. I am guessing that not a single person actually knew or understood what that meant.. If they did, then most likely they were against them going F2P.. Well.. Becarful what you wish for.. I have no sympathy.. And yes it is entitlement.. They want as much as they can get for free.. They complain when they have to pay for something.. I fail to see why anyone would think that F2P is actually free.. They have to make a profit somehow..

[JediJonesJr]

lol, Indeed! Waiting for FF ARR, then Adios, Muchachos.

 

 

same here fudge this company they can keep the fanboys who downplay others who sub and tell us we have no right

i would rather take another chance with ffxiv reboot and knowing the fail of the first version of that game at least i see a gaming company that has learned from it's past mistakes and has taken the higher road.

[Sziroten]

Forums should be that way, but if the suggestions were actually constructive, it would be so much more helpful and troll-free.

Plenty of people just go "waaaah, I do not like I have new otpion to use my free coins on, waaaah, this game suxxxx". So to that, you seriously cannot expect any reasonable and constructive answer.

 

You do realize that you are posting in a thread which is not constructive at all but simple fingerpointing across everyone having any kind of issue with 2.1 no matter how constructive it has been posted. If you want something constructive (which many people have been provided) then please:

 

1) subscriber should not have to pay with cc for slider adjustments during customization

2) subscriber should not have to pay for a handful of new hairstyles/ colors (or even emotes) after over a year this game has been out

3) subscriber should have to pay for new races (which can be paid for with Cartel coins) but not those which have been unlocked already .

4) subscriber shoud have to pay for "expansions" (which can be paid for with Cartel coins)

5) subscriber may have to pay for account unlocks for their collections

6) Dye Kits should not be sold in random packs

7) subscriber should be able to add dye kits to their collection/ they should be able to RE vor Artifice

Edited May 16, 2013 by Sziroten

[Seireeni]

If I didn't like the game, I'd leave. But because I like the game, I tell what I don't like in it and hope I can like it even more in the future.

[curtkram]

I'd say that less than 1% of the posts or threads are actually well thought out and constructive.. Most of the time it is just people whining about this that or the other..

 

The biggest issue is that people demanded that this game go F2P.. I am guessing that not a single person actually knew or understood what that meant.. If they did, then most likely they were against them going F2P.. Well.. Becarful what you wish for.. I have no sympathy.. And yes it is entitlement.. They want as much as they can get for free.. They complain when they have to pay for something.. I fail to see why anyone would think that F2P is actually free.. They have to make a profit somehow..

 

this is not my recollection of the past. i recall servers dieing, and nothing being done for a long time to address it. i remember a lot of people quitting. i remember an exit survey that was loaded. i don't remember the exact question, but it was something like "would you rather swtor be free, or get molested by a drunk uncle?" that was an exaggeration, but the spirit of the statement is accurate to my memory. by the time EA decided to merge servers, they were already committed to f2p.

 

they did not switch to f2p because the players wanted it. in fact, there was a lot of forum posts opposed to the switch, and i think a lot of people really did quit instead of just bluffing. the switch was because EA wanted to compete with zynga, and they thought f2p would be more profitable.