PT/Vanguard What to do

[Marisblood]

When my mercenary does 6k to 7k crit on the heat-seeker missiles and my PT struggles to get 5k from rail shot or thermal detonator, somethings broken. Especially if i can crit 7k and heal 150k and dps 450k in a single warzone with my merc.

 

I'm all for a buff to the AP/Tactics, I've been saying that since 1.2. It's an awesome tree with so much more potential if we had more percentage added to internal and elemental damage from using the HEGC.

 

Please fix BW.

 

Merc is buffed and very hard to put down now, but some of them are still crying on forums for more. And that is madness.

[Terrorshard]

Wutsup shard.

 

I've fought against you lots, you are definitely a force to reckon with. I don't have a trooper so I'll stick with hunter terminology.

 

Long story short, I'll say again that shoulder cannon should remain exclusive to middle tree, and pyro's generic CGC dps potential should be increased. Thermal detonator should have the dot placed before the explosion, not after. I, like the rest of you have found use of shoulder cannon, but I think it's actually a joke. When calculating/balancing the dps potentials, it's actually hurting us more than helping. I'm done developing my jug so I'll be heating things up alot now on my PT. see ya out there.

 

Hey! Thanks for posting. I still love my Vanguard and now I am running a full tactics build. Is it good? no...I'm lucky to see a 5k crit on fire pulse, but it has slightly more survivability than assault, and I figured assault has no burst anyway. Tactics is like being a sentinel without force leap/burst damage/defensive/execution cooldowns.

 

Instead you get...uhhh, let me think. Slightly better resource management?

 

Anyway I hope a dev sees this and does something. It just feels like none of our skills got any better from the additional 5 levels.

[Terrorshard]

Enjoy and L2P. We were infected more then 1 year with PT/VG spamming 2 buttons. You have 30% healing, shield who make you almost untouchable ( i saw skilled PT crossing fire in Huttball taking 0 dmg almost), u can use a med pack, so basically u can recover more then 18k Hp easy mode (if you have 30k HP). Just stop using 2 buttons. Only skilled PT/VG are still there doing more dmg then classes that you consider here are OP.

 

So much I could say. But I will not be trolled. I'll just say that you know you're being unfair and biased and it isn't helpful.

[Taankjr]

I can't wait to see how shadows will cry on these forums, like they did in pts 2.0 threads.

[WarKnyte]

I've actually really enjoyed tanking on my vanguard post 2.0. My damage isn't great but my survivability is incredible, especially with the self healing they gave us with the reworked adrenaline rush and the talents that give my shoulder cannon the ability to heal me. I've been able to kill most people 1v1 and can hold a point quite well. The OPs point is quite clearly stated but as far as the tank tree goes I couldn't be happier.

[foxmob]

I've actually really enjoyed tanking on my vanguard post 2.0. My damage isn't great but my survivability is incredible, especially with the self healing they gave us with the reworked adrenaline rush and the talents that give my shoulder cannon the ability to heal me. I've been able to kill most people 1v1 and can hold a point quite well. The OPs point is quite clearly stated but as far as the tank tree goes I couldn't be happier.

 

what about your VG tank makes you better -- or just as good as -- a guardian or shadow?

 

shadow will always be the better guard. even a dps shadow is a better guard.

 

guardian has much better cc, which means better peels for tha heals.

 

guardian is better ball carrier, but they did get nerfed a bit post leap (can still awe when they land, however).

 

what areas of the game is a team better served to have a VG tank rather than guardian or shadow? the only answer I can come up with is "when the player skill is noticeably higher." and that applies to the most broken or nerfed classes in any game ever. but maybe I'm missing something about the advantages of the VG tank?

[WarKnyte]

what about your VG tank makes you better -- or just as good as -- a guardian or shadow?

I don't actually think that Vanguards are a "better" tank than any other class. Just a different flavor that I really enjoy. I also contend that they are not worse across the board, just perhaps not as effective in certain situations.

 

shadow will always be the better guard. even a dps shadow is a better guard.

I don't know enough about shadow tanks to dispute this, but I also don't know enough about them to agree with this either. I do know that vanguards have a good gap close (Storm), the same taunts as everybody else (AOE and single target) and good CC.

 

guardian has much better cc, which means better peels for tha heals.

Guardian is great for peels as they can use push to get someone away, whereas Vanguards have to use their harpoon, but other than that difference I don't think this argument holds much water. I would give Guardians a marginal advantage in this category though.

 

guardian is better ball carrier, but they did get nerfed a bit post leap (can still awe when they land, however).

Unless the guardian is talented into the "You can't touch me after i leap" talent in the Vigilance tree then I would say they are only marginally better ball carriers. The Vanguard can Storm to an enemy (Leap equivalent) and then AOE stun, and also now they can pop Hold the Line. The advantage I would give to the Guardians is the ability to leap to a friendly target also.

 

what areas of the game is a team better served to have a VG tank rather than guardian or shadow? the only answer I can come up with is "when the player skill is noticeably higher." and that applies to the most broken or nerfed classes in any game ever. but maybe I'm missing something about the advantages of the VG tank?

The only area I can see a team being better served by a Vanguard than any other class, given that I haven't thought about it for more than 5 minutes, is choke point and passage denial. With the new Riot Gas functionality of slowing targets that are in it/pass through is significantly hampers and enemies ability to make it through a location such as the VoidStar tunnels.

 

TLDR - I don't think Vanguards are really better or worse tanks than any other tank class. They just have their own flavor and niche. I do really enjoy that flavor (mmmmm, chocolate) and have been loving playing all of the maps on my tank.

[foxmob]

I don't actually think that Vanguards are a "better" tank than any other class. Just a different flavor that I really enjoy. I also contend that they are not worse across the board, just perhaps not as effective in certain situations.

fair enough. and certainly reason enough to play it.

I don't know enough about shadow tanks to dispute this, but I also don't know enough about them to agree with this either. I do know that vanguards have a good gap close (Storm), the same taunts as everybody else (AOE and single target) and good CC.

it's a matter of stealth. you can't cc what you can't see. and a good stealther doesn't just sit in the same place. basically, two stealth can always cap on a non-stealth guard. one pulls and cc's. the second before the pull goes off, the second stealth begins capping.

 

Guardian is great for peels as they can use push to get someone away, whereas Vanguards have to use their harpoon, but other than that difference I don't think this argument holds much water. I would give Guardians a marginal advantage in this category though.

guardian tanks have the best cc in the game, imo. just spam 50% slow. ad that to force push, and they can actually make a tech user go backwards if they wanted to. but that would require too much attention for just 1 dps in practical terms.

 

Unless the guardian is talented into the "You can't touch me after i leap" talent in the Vigilance tree then I would say they are only marginally better ball carriers. The Vanguard can Storm to an enemy (Leap equivalent) and then AOE stun, and also now they can pop Hold the Line. The advantage I would give to the Guardians is the ability to leap to a friendly target also.

htl is awesome in that regard, but in terms of ball movement, leap>push>leap + the abil to leap to friendlies trumps htl, which is awesome. no denying. awe > neural surge. you're not interested in dpsing the crowd you leap into. you just want to move through them. 6s > 2.5s.

 

The only area I can see a team being better served by a Vanguard than any other class, given that I haven't thought about it for more than 5 minutes, is choke point and passage denial. With the new Riot Gas functionality of slowing targets that are in it/pass through is significantly hampers and enemies ability to make it through a location such as the VoidStar tunnels.

not sure how this is better than the spammable guardian slow. it may be worse if it's not spamable, but I'm not up to date on any 2.0 changes to the thing. last I used it, it was just an accuracy debuff?

 

TLDR - I don't think Vanguards are really better or worse tanks than any other tank class. They just have their own flavor and niche. I do really enjoy that flavor (mmmmm, chocolate) and have been loving playing all of the maps on my tank.

absolutely agree. I just like troopers. not wild about mando's cuz the assault cannon is kinda silly looking. they're not real "troopers" imo. more like infantry support units.

Edited May 8, 2013 by foxmob

[WarKnyte]

it's a matter of stealth. you can't cc what you can't see. and a good stealther doesn't just sit in the same place. basically, two stealth can always cap on a non-stealth guard. one pulls and cc's. the second before the pull goes off, the second stealth begins capping.

I have to give you this one, it's tough to beat stealth for guarding a node. That's a very good advantage that Shadows have.

 

guardian tanks have the best cc in the game, imo. just spam 50% slow. ad that to force push, and they can actually make a tech user go backwards if they wanted to. but that would require too much attention for just 1 dps in practical terms.

I wouldn't say the best in the game, but it's quite good if you have the resources to fire it (and you really should), but don't discount the slows that vanguards get, 50% for 2 sec just from ion cell firing on them, plus a couple of other talents you could pick up that add more slows.

 

htl is awesome in that regard, but in terms of ball movement, leap>push>leap + the abil to leap to friendlies trumps htl, which is awesome. no denying. awe > neural surge. you're not interested in dpsing the crowd you leap into. you just want to move through them. 6s > 2.5s.

Leap->push->leap is just so much fun for moving down the field, I'll give you that. I've used it to score several times and laugh my head off each time. ^_^

 

not sure how this is better than the spammable guardian slow. it may be worse if it's not spamable, but I'm not up to date on any 2.0 changes to the thing. last I used it, it was just an accuracy debuff?

The new Riot Gas is a 70% slow as long as they are in the cloud as well as the 30% accuracy debuff. It's a fairly large cloud on the ground so it's hard to get out of before the 15 seconds expires. Used right it's got great utility. I've stood in the middle of the cloud and blocked off whole groups from advancing. Choke points are my friend.

 

absolutely agree. I just like troopers. not wild about mando's cuz the assault cannon is kinda silly looking. they're not real "troopers" imo. more like infantry support units.

 

Let me just say that it's nice to be able to disagree NICELY with someone and actually have an intelligent discussion about pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses rather than vitriolic spewing from the noise hole.

[sphyg]

I'm just trying to figure out what went wrong. Certain skills don't feel like they scaled at all with 5 levels. HIB hits for about the same as it did before the patch. I have 2600 aim, max expertise, and HIB rarely hits 6k. My sentinel who has 600 less mainstat hits far harder.

I'm hitting anywhere from 5.5 - 7.4k crits in hib

[Terrorshard]

I'm hitting anywhere from 5.5 - 7.4k crits in hib

 

I've never hit a 7k anything with 700 damage bonus/max expertise/relic proc.

 

I'm lucky to hit a 5.5k

[Leoness]

Just reroll to Sniper/Gunslinger, no point to play Powertech/Vanguard any more, it's what EAware obviously wants its players to do.

[Terrorshard]

Just reroll to Sniper/Gunslinger, no point to play Powertech/Vanguard any more, it's what EAware obviously wants its players to do.

 

Hah. I'm v-rank 90. I have all the datacrons. I've enjoyed the Vanguard more than any other class I've played in an MMO to date. Close second would be my Iron Breaker from War. I also am very busy with work and the fiance that I just don't have the energy to do it all. I just have to hope Bioware looks at this thread and maybe makes a few changes to get us back to par.

[ChickenWangs]

Just reroll to Sniper/Gunslinger, no point to play Powertech/Vanguard any more, it's what EAware obviously wants its players to do.

 

The new holy FOTM class! They buffed them so much it became crazy good. Just like smashers. Notice how operatives, vanguards, and shadows all seem to get nerfed and then a below the dps bar.

Edited May 9, 2013 by ChickenWangs

[foxmob]

The new holy FOTM class! They buffed them so much it became crazy good. Just like smashers. Notice how operatives, vanguards, and shadows all seem to get nerfed and then a below the dps bar.

 

shadow deeps is pretty darn good. I won't say op. they're fine. they didn't get nerfed. they just got reworked. the old "best dps specs" are no longer good.

[Macroeconomics]

I won't debate the current state of the game, but as it stands the Vanguard seems like the odd man out now. I think the Vanguard in its current state needs a few changes and additions to compete again at the level on the other classes.

 

Things could be worse. You could be a Commando Assault. LOL.