abhaxus Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Bioware, I completely agree with the idea of bolster. I cannot remember where I read it, but the original intent was that bioware wanted bolster to be a better fix than recruit gear that could allow you to rubberband fresh 50s to current average gear levels. Recruit gear is only competitive until players start min/maxing and augmenting the top tier PVP gear. The problem with the current bolster system is that you over-thought it. It's pretty obvious that you have a good intention, but you are attacking it all wrong. By coming up with a complex formula for what gear gets bolstered at the itemization level, you have completely ****ed up and made it too hard on yourselves, and made it even harder to fix down the road (ie, keep fresh 55s semi competitive with fully geared players). The solution is RIDICULOUSLY easy, and has been batted around in other threads, but I'll lay it down for you right now. When a toon enters a WZ, it should be checked for expertise in each item slot (not mod level). If the player has any expertise on gear in that slot, bolster is ignored. If there is no expertise on that gear, they receive stats for gear that is at a predetermined percentage of partisan gear. I would suggest 10% lower than partisan if you implement this right now, and changing as time goes on. This is a blanket 10% lower than partisan stats, expertise, endurance, etc. If the slot is empty (naked bolster) the stats awarded from bolster are the exact same as stats from Underworld gear. In essence, the stats of the gear do not matter unless it is PVP oriented already. You just gave everyone in the game a free set of gear, that you can rubberband as you see fit. Players still get to customize their look. Everyone wins. People with full partisan or higher will have their relic procs, set bonuses, etc to give them an advantage and customization and grind, people who only pvp casually will be able to do so without a massive disadvantage. You could have this implemented in less than a week, and you have fixed all of your problems. Read my spoiler below for an even better adjustment to this system, hidden to keep from being an even bigger wall of text. Just takes away from the simplicity of it: I think the system could be even better if you took item rating into account for JUST the armor damage reduction and force/tech power weapon ratings. So that way, a player with say full underworld gear might only have 10% of the stats (endurance, main stat, expretise, etc) as a partisan player, but they would have the very slight damage reduction and higher damage from their hard-earned gear. An even better adjustment would be to have their set bonuses apply, even though they aren't actually getting the stats from their gear. So they would have 90% of partisan stats, but have their PVE set bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) I came up with an almost exactly identical idea about 1-2 weeks ago. I'm glad that someone else has figured out that bolster could very easily be fixed and made exactly how they want it (presuming I know what they're trying to do of course) The way i put it was something along the lines of: "Gear above ilvl X, without expertise is reduced to a % of current bottom lvl pvp gear (currently partisan.)" and "Gear below ilvl X, without expertise is increased to a % of current bottom lvl pvp gear (currently partisan.)" A blanket approach would be reasonably simple to implement and whilst not totally 100% perfect, would be just about spot on what they're trying to do. I like the mod idea, however I do think that they would need to adjust mod values with gear, perhaps increase/decrease mod stats by the same % of gear? Here is my post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=627635 I probably over-complicated things, unfortunately I have a tenancy to do that. But you get the gist of what i was trying to get across Edited May 6, 2013 by Jeeses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarGame Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I had the same idea as well, they way over thought this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I had the same idea as well, they way over thought this. Unfortunately I think they thought about it too much. They had it right pre-50, however when they added in the top lvl to the equation the simplest solution must have gone over their head. Basically: Above Ilvl X decrease stats to Y% of partisan (or whatever gear set) Below Ilvl X increase stats to Y% of partisan (or whatever gear set) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 bump because good fix is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhaxus Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 Don't need to overcomplicate things. Others have suggested (wondered?) why they didn't just set bolster so that everyone pre 55 would have exactly the same stats, I just came to the logical conclusion (that they should do that at 55 as well). Solves the PVE > PVP gear argument. The modified suggestion taking gear rating into account only for armor dmg reduction and weapon power helps ease the sting a bit for heavy PVErs, and giving them their set bonuses would do the same. Neither of those things is necessary to fix the problem at hand though. They need to fix bolster, now, and the best way to do it is what I suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KettleBelll Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 these ideas are perfect, but they aren't reading the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KettleBelll Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Don't need to overcomplicate things. Others have suggested (wondered?) why they didn't just set bolster so that everyone pre 55 would have exactly the same stats, I just came to the logical conclusion (that they should do that at 55 as well). Solves the PVE > PVP gear argument. The modified suggestion taking gear rating into account only for armor dmg reduction and weapon power helps ease the sting a bit for heavy PVErs, and giving them their set bonuses would do the same. Neither of those things is necessary to fix the problem at hand though. They need to fix bolster, now, and the best way to do it is what I suggested. Except for this idea.... People that are lower level should be bolstered harder, because they don't have as many skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhaxus Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 That definitely makes sense. I'm mainly concerned with 55 pvp, but for lowbie it makes sense that they should be bolstered a bit higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sauerkraut Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) This whole situation like the movie " Mercury rising". BW in damage control mode, admitting that they bolster is a total @#%% up, would raise more questions, like why do you pull your paycheck here dude, or why don't we just give them a fricken armor, or who hired you? Edited May 6, 2013 by sauerkraut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Except for this idea.... People that are lower level should be bolstered harder, because they don't have as many skills. Exactly.. pre-55 bolster needs to somehow boost lower levels in stats because they lack powers and points in skill trees. Otherwise, a level 10 won't ever stand a chance. But this same solution the OP suggested is also something I had already suggested very shortly after 2.0 hit Live and it really is the simplest solution. The moment they added this 'check' if something is PVP gear by checking for Expertise, was the moment they also should have just realised that all non PVP gear should be totally ignored and just given an amount of base stats similar to the old Recruit set. A good solution is a simple one... and this one is so simple it can be summarized in a very simple check for each gear slot: IF Expertise = 0 THEN INSERT Base PVP Stats for slot That will really achieve the goal of levelling the playing field for PVP starters without Expertise in slots, without creating any balance issues. The one explaination we never received from Bioware is the reasons why it wasn't made this simple. I cannot imagine this simple solution was never brainstormed in any design meeting. So please Bioware, tell us why this simple solution wasn't good enough? What were the Cons that made this solution not viable compared to the more complex system that was eventually chosen? And do these Cons still live up to the Cons of the other system that was eventually chosen? We are not calling for Bolster to be removed here, as many people do see the plus sides of the system in general (despite the many hundreds of people who do call for it's removal regardless, they are just a very vocal and often very uninformed group). But please give us a bit more insight into why this simple solution was not chosen. Or, even better, if this is something that is right now under consideration once more or not? Edited May 6, 2013 by Devlonir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhaxus Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 bump. Bioware, this is so simple, please just do it. Tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhaxus Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 Bump. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ybini Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I thought the same thing, or something similar. Like a base exp 1500 for pve gear and only pvp gear adds, but then if you think about it, all it does it reduce the expertise gap of what already existed pre 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRGhostRider Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yep. This idea for 55-level bolster fix has been around in multiple threads. Thanks for making it explicit here, in its own thread. Hopefully they will notice now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MahneWarrior Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Just remove bolster from 55 war zones. Happy days. I am a pver btw so has nothing to do with me wanted a gear advantage,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhaxus Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 Bump10char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillat Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Pretty close to exactly the same idea http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6231596 It's a simple, elegant, transparent fix. Why persist with the current terrible mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Just remove bolster from 55 war zones. Happy days. I am a pver btw so has nothing to do with me wanted a gear advantage,. Please don't fill this thread with "just remove bolster"... It should not happen and I pray to god that BW stick it out with bolster. If you can't see the benefits of the system you need to get your head checked. For those of you with brainpower issues, I'll dumb it down for you... For the sake of my example, lets say they implement what the OP, I and one other have already posted. All pve gear is buffed/nerfed to 75% of lowest pvp gear. Then there is partisan, the average lvl of gear, (this is a 25% boost in stats so worthwhile to grind it out) Then there is conqueror, the current top teir gear (lets say for the sake of example its 25% better than partisan, just to keep numbers easy) Then lets say 2.1 rolls around, and they release a new set of gear. They increase bolster stats to partisan lvl, they have essentially made partisan the new recruit gear. Now conq gear is bought with comms, and is still 25% better than partisan, so theres still point in grinding it out if you dont have it already. They release a new set (lets call it top teir 2.1) Now those who are new to pvp, or casuals etc have partisan stats, those who pvp semi regularly will quickly grind out conq gear, while those who are determined pvpers will quickly get top teir 2.1. The idea of bolster @ 55 is that they dont have to constantly change gear stats around, they just increase the stats of bolster to an appropriate lvl. Maybe I'm just seeing this too clearly, or 2/3 of the forum posters were dropped at birth... IDK sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Everything here ^ You idiots better read it. The sad part is they wont or they will and their brain will still derp too hard for them to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luco-Zade Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Bumped for common sense ALL DEVS TO THE PVP FORUM !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Bumped for common sense ALL DEVS TO THE PVP FORUM !!!! Based on the level of stupidity on the PVP forums since bolster, I must say that unfortunately common sense does not have a place here. but anyway. DEV READ THIS THREAD KGO eric im calling you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Based on the level of stupidity on the PVP forums since bolster, I must say that unfortunately common sense does not have a place here. but anyway. DEV READ THIS THREAD KGO eric im calling you Eric, please atleast tell us if the idea of bolster in this thread is actually what your looking to do. I want to help in anyway possible as I can see the good in what your team is trying to achieve, but being left in the dark is frustrating. Are we correct? or are we way off (if way off what do you want it to be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 this is the truth. don't let it fall below the QQIMBAD threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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