GhostShaman Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 (edited) I will make this simple. I want a pazaak system. You can throw new cards or even new decks on the CM for profitability, I really dont care, however I want pazaak. I also want a mobile feature to take with me to play pazaak on the go. Now the gambling part. I want to be able to place bets while playing pazaak, but not only that, there needs to be a Hutt run one vs one death match to bet on. like in KOTOR (mysterious stranger anyone?) Thats it. Comment or vote up if you agree. Edited May 3, 2013 by GhostShaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NycHeretic Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 (edited) Amen....may the developers take this suggestion seriously....I don't think EA/BIOWARE fully realize what Pazaak would do for this game.... In my opinion Pazaak and an open world PVP system with incentives is the only thing keeping this game from being a complete gem....even the swtor haters would have to shut up! Edited May 4, 2013 by NycHeretic sentenc e structure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Bull Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 a must both of these! I think the addition of these would add so much more than any new race ever could (not that i'm complaining about new races) but Pazaak was one of the coolest parts of KOTOR. I spent hours on that game, HOURS (and I mean Pazaak not KOTOR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivergame Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 i vote you can play pazaak in the cantina with friends or npc and bet on the game self i also like in the old game you can do a practis game with your companion to test your deck it makes the cantina more fun and more a rest place i also miss sitting in the chairs i vote for a better cantina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSicness Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I'd love for trhem to bring Pazzak in, Loved playing it on KOTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikiroony Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 It's not even a matter of development: at pazaak.org it's all ready to go as a standalone app, and you can play online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperswhip Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 How about a warzone that is publicly viewable (like Hutball was supposed to be), that is SWOOP RACING, with betting, prizes and standings. Oh ya, they could do this for sure, but they won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odonoghuet Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Can't say for certain but I have always felt that the lack of speeder racing and pazak were never implimented because of the morality questionmark of encouraging gambling in a MMO platform, especially after the Cartel coins means players are investing real cash on the game, and double especially now that Disney is the IP owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scraycroft Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Can't say for certain but I have always felt that the lack of speeder racing and pazak were never implimented because of the morality questionmark of encouraging gambling in a MMO platform, especially after the Cartel coins means players are investing real cash on the game, and double especially now that Disney is the IP owner. I thought the same thing, not that I agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser_az Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 ya they have the casinos on nar shadaa that are just hollow buildings they should do stuff with them. why stop with pazaak they could add slot machines, roulette wheels, and if possible add a way to place bets on ranked warzone matches. the casinos on nar shadaa could be infinitely more interesting places to hang out if they added actual stuff to do there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NrDLeipe Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 wassnt it the age issue thats holding it back ( 12+ instead of 18+)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jendor Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 yes ! agreed /signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser_az Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 wassnt it the age issue thats holding it back ( 12+ instead of 18+)? age shouldnt be an issue since all gambling would be with in game currency not real money and there is no direct way to convert real money to in game currency. the only way to possibly do that is to buy up cartel market items and packs and then sell them on the gtn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odonoghuet Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 age shouldnt be an issue since all gambling would be with in game currency not real money and there is no direct way to convert real money to in game currency. the only way to possibly do that is to buy up cartel market items and packs and then sell them on the gtn. If 17 year old kid spends money on cartel coins for an item then sells any of it, there is a link between real world cash and in game currency. It is arguably a pittance but the fact is that is a legally unprotected minor spending real money into the game. If you then allow gambling then you are gambling with real kids and real money. Even this could be potentially balanced to be ethically acceptable but we have no way to stop players from throwing hands, podraces, warzones, or any other form of gambling in the game. There is no way to make a balanced gambling system with ethically controlled rules. EA and LucasArts now Disney, are not going to be want to associated to that kind of ugliness without it being a must have selling point to the game. Putting all that aside, what I recall of Pazzak in KOTOR is you had to make and customize your deck to make it stronger with better cards. Can you imagine the awkwardness of having the best cards in CM packs or even in game drops then expecting it to be balanced between players to gamble on? They could spend the time adding a way to play against the computer but the howls and complaints for a single player card game would be worse than having none. No matter how you slice this, it is ugly. Perhaps suggestions on how to make this work around these issues would get more results than simply asking for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser_az Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 If 17 year old kid spends money on cartel coins for an item then sells any of it, there is a link between real world cash and in game currency. It is arguably a pittance but the fact is that is a legally unprotected minor spending real money into the game. If you then allow gambling then you are gambling with real kids and real money. Even this could be potentially balanced to be ethically acceptable but we have no way to stop players from throwing hands, podraces, warzones, or any other form of gambling in the game. There is no way to make a balanced gambling system with ethically controlled rules. EA and LucasArts now Disney, are not going to be want to associated to that kind of ugliness without it being a must have selling point to the game. Putting all that aside, what I recall of Pazzak in KOTOR is you had to make and customize your deck to make it stronger with better cards. Can you imagine the awkwardness of having the best cards in CM packs or even in game drops then expecting it to be balanced between players to gamble on? They could spend the time adding a way to play against the computer but the howls and complaints for a single player card game would be worse than having none. No matter how you slice this, it is ugly. Perhaps suggestions on how to make this work around these issues would get more results than simply asking for it. even if someone wins 10 million credits gambling on a in game slot machine or card game there is no way to take those in game credits and then cash out into real currency. so the whole point of it being a form of legalized gambling is really a non issue if you convert your winnings into cash. even if someone buys bulk cartel packs and tries to sell them for in game currency the only way to do this is on the gtn and it is totally dependent on the supply and demand. if the gtn is flooded with cartel packs the price will drop drastically and when you think about it cartel packs themselves are a form of gambling, you are spending real money in the hopes they will either have something useful or something you can sell on the gtn. including a few little mini games where you can bet credits is really not going to hurt anyone and it will make the casinos and cantinas infinitely more interesting than they currently are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperNobbs Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Personally i love Card games within games. Favorite was the card game from Final Fantasy 9. So make this happen people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odonoghuet Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 even if someone wins 10 million credits gambling on a in game slot machine or card game there is no way to take those in game credits and then cash out into real currency. so the whole point of it being a form of legalized gambling is really a non issue if you convert your winnings into cash. Which is not even close to on point because the concern of teens gambling is them putting money into the gambling system, not what they win. Your point on that packs are gambling on getting good stuff is valid that boat has sailed before computer games exsisted. I would love to see these kinds of games but i seriously doubt just asking for them rather than suggesting ways they could be implimented with the current flaws is not going to change things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser_az Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Which is not even close to on point because the concern of teens gambling is them putting money into the gambling system, not what they win. Your point on that packs are gambling on getting good stuff is valid that boat has sailed before computer games exsisted. I would love to see these kinds of games but i seriously doubt just asking for them rather than suggesting ways they could be implimented with the current flaws is not going to change things. i dont see what the issue you are talking about is people can gamble with in game currency that has no means to be converted to real cash. if you cant convert the in game currency back into real cash then this is not really gambling. the fact that someone can buy a cartel pack and sell it on the gtn doesnt make a difference kids can use their parents credit cards and get tons of cartel packs just to hope that something good is inside as easily as they could to sell it and then throw some credits down on a gambling game. i can think of tons of games including pokemon and gta san andreas that had in game gambling mini games it cant be that hard to implement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odonoghuet Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 i dont see what the issue you are talking about is people can gamble with in game currency that has no means to be converted to real cash. if you cant convert the in game currency back into real cash then this is not really gambling. the fact that someone can buy a cartel pack and sell it on the gtn doesnt make a difference kids can use their parents credit cards and get tons of cartel packs just to hope that something good is inside as easily as they could to sell it and then throw some credits down on a gambling game. i can think of tons of games including pokemon and gta san andreas that had in game gambling mini games it cant be that hard to implement Do those games have: 1. Gambling 2. Multiple Players 3. Cash transactions As long as you tick all three then it is breaching into being seen by outsiders as true gambling. Just because you can't use the winnings to make cash doesn't mean you can't use those winnings to buy stuff that could be bought with cash gives it a value. And just because what is in randomized packs could be considered gambling it is not multiple player meaning balance and fairness is only judged to the base system, not how others collectively use the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NrDLeipe Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 dont know if its the case though the age, i can vagely remember an older pazaak topic were it came up, and tbh i wouldnt be susprised cause it issnt in the game atm. pazaak is gold for this game lots of ppl i know would love this in the game and its not ingame for a reason i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser_az Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) Do those games have: 1. Gambling 2. Multiple Players 3. Cash transactions As long as you tick all three then it is breaching into being seen by outsiders as true gambling. Just because you can't use the winnings to make cash doesn't mean you can't use those winnings to buy stuff that could be bought with cash gives it a value. And just because what is in randomized packs could be considered gambling it is not multiple player meaning balance and fairness is only judged to the base system, not how others collectively use the system. so what you are saying is that i can buy 100 cartel packs with real money with the hope that there is something good in them but adding a little mini game where i have a chance to win some in game currency is crossing the line? it is not true gambling unless you can cash out your winnings which is kind of the point of gambling if you arent winning money then it is just a game. if there was a real moral objection to taking peoples real money for in game items there would be no cartel market Edited May 11, 2013 by kaiser_az Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odonoghuet Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 so what you are saying is that i can buy 100 cartel packs with real money with the hope that there is something good in them but adding a little mini game where i have a chance to win some in game currency is crossing the line? it is not true gambling unless you can cash out your winnings which is kind of the point of gambling if you arent winning money then it is just a game. if there was a real moral objection to taking peoples real money for in game items there would be no cartel market What I am saying is that if you and another bunch of guys each buy cartel packs with real money you give everything on your characters including in game credits a monetary economic value even if you can't extract them from the game. Then if you are able to gamble in game credits against other players that is gambling. Look at it like this. I can buy cartel packs with my character, sell the contents for in game credits, and then lose it all in an in game mini game to other players. I could play the game to earn credits but I could also purchase with real money more credits by buying more cartel packs and selling them. The in game credits are linked to the CCs which are bought with real money. There is no mechanism for stopping this from occuring so there is no defense for Bioware as not running a PG13 game that has gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser_az Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 What I am saying is that if you and another bunch of guys each buy cartel packs with real money you give everything on your characters including in game credits a monetary economic value even if you can't extract them from the game. Then if you are able to gamble in game credits against other players that is gambling. Look at it like this. I can buy cartel packs with my character, sell the contents for in game credits, and then lose it all in an in game mini game to other players. I could play the game to earn credits but I could also purchase with real money more credits by buying more cartel packs and selling them. The in game credits are linked to the CCs which are bought with real money. There is no mechanism for stopping this from occuring so there is no defense for Bioware as not running a PG13 game that has gambling. ok well first off the games they make dont have to be a pvp type of gambling game where someone ignorant of the rules can get their credits wiped out by someone who knows them. the games could be like black jack or roulette where you play with people but against the house and not each other. second if you really want to extrapolate the value of a credit to a dollar based off the fact you can buy cartel packs and then sell them on the gtn i guess you could but still the fact you cant turn those credits back into dollars mean that this isnt legally gambling, at least as far as i know. third just because kids play this game makes no real difference since gambling mini games have been around since the original pokemon games where someone correct me if i am wrong but the plot of the game is advanced by playing the slot machines. i am not saying include a mini game where you can rack up trillions of credits and throw off the values of the market just include some mini games to make the casinos and cantinas a more interesting and more authentic hang out place. i am not trying to argue the morality of gambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colemak Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) /signed Maybe we should try pazaak.... Edit: Looking at the thread, a simple solution to the gambling problem would be having a bet cap of say, 10k. Plus Republic Senate Rules for anyone under legacy lvl 10 or something. Edited May 12, 2013 by colemak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odonoghuet Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 ok well first off the games they make dont have to be a pvp type of gambling game where someone ignorant of the rules can get their credits wiped out by someone who knows them. the games could be like black jack or roulette where you play with people but against the house and not each other. second if you really want to extrapolate the value of a credit to a dollar based off the fact you can buy cartel packs and then sell them on the gtn i guess you could but still the fact you cant turn those credits back into dollars mean that this isnt legally gambling, at least as far as i know. third just because kids play this game makes no real difference since gambling mini games have been around since the original pokemon games where someone correct me if i am wrong but the plot of the game is advanced by playing the slot machines. i am not saying include a mini game where you can rack up trillions of credits and throw off the values of the market just include some mini games to make the casinos and cantinas a more interesting and more authentic hang out place. i am not trying to argue the morality of gambling This is what I was suggesting that ideas for how pazzak or card games could work in game without it being overtly credit gambling to be more paletable to Bioware and above. Pazzak itself in Kotor was pretty much a game you could play against the guy in the street though so denying it to cantinas and casinos and non PVP would causes as much dsgruntled complaints as not allowing it in the first place. Even multiplayer against the house would require new types of games to be invented that could be hit and miss in concepts. Edit: Looking at the thread, a simple solution to the gambling problem would be having a bet cap of say, 10k. Plus Republic Senate Rules for anyone under legacy lvl 10 or something. A betting cap that kept wins down to around the same earnings over time as doing dailies could work but again how many would complain that they are limited to betting thousands when they have tens of millions. And I must confess that I have a shadow of 'missed opertunity' regret that there is no way to win something more than credits, such as the story of how the Falcon past from Lando to Han. There was rumours of pazzak to be coming with Makeb in some of the early developer posts about it, going back at least 6 months, so if the system had been designed and coded perhaps having a plot thread in an event that had a pazzak tournament would let us test the waters of this kind of add on and its limitations with a story based introduction and time limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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