Thanks for killing PT in pvp

[KamikazeKommando]

The Advanced Prototype tank hybrid is amazing. Pyro is still good. I've seen Advanced Prototype put up good damage, and Shield Tech is pretty good to boot. Sure, the burst was nerfed, but PT is still very good in the hands of a skilled player. My main is a AP tank hybrid, and I sometimes do Pyro for PvP...honestly, I see most of the same results.

 

PT is just fine. It just became more skill based.

 

+1

 

I think people underestimate the potential of a good tank hybrid PT/VG quite a bit to be honest. I've usually ran as one since 1.4 when I wanted to change things up and never looked back (both for PVP and PVE). Though I usually find better results with a hybrid dipping into Pyro/Assault when comparing the options. It's easier to balance synergy around Prototype Particle Accelerator/Ionic Accelerator but maybe that's just me (and the fact I like laughing at my enemies when it procs).

Edited May 4, 2013 by KamikazeKommando

[OldSpiceSwag]

/bump

[Azrienov]

Preference to counter another team is the main thing why some ranked teams win, my point is a PT is still as good as before and nothing has changed in the grand scheme of things with the class.

 

I will call this guy on this; Pyro Powertechs used to be a nightmare for everyone on the map because of their ability to unleash enormous damage in a short period of time. Smash was annoying yes, but a smash monkey got crushed when he was playing a strong pyro player. And yeah, it's not hard to succeed at. It has some of the best cooldowns in the game for DPSing, as it is the only DPS class with a pull(Tank sin doesn't count. They got melted by PTs pre 2.0 as well.) and a 15% increase to critical damage. A stacked thermal detonator that coincided with a second railshot in 4 GCDs was the end for any class before the fight started. Thats the complaint: this aspect is GONE.

 

PT got nerfed because PT needed to be nerfed. I've seen people still inflict enormous damage, but DoT classes are a joke in PvP. That's just a fact: healing is so much faster than dots. Lethality can claim to be an exception because of Cull. Otherwise, a good healer that manages to stay out of interrupt arcs can basically expunge the enormous amounts of damage a DoT class can do. It's all about burst now. Arsenal mercs are GOOD in PvP because they can stack railshot to HSM for 15k damage followed by a 12k channel with excellent critical procs. Sorcs are topping the charts with strong AoE, and snipers are snipers. In the current meta, spike damage is in, dot damage is out, and it really upsets teh PTs of the world.

 

But I was a merc from launch on. Get over yourselves PTs. You're still good contenders. Maybe not the end ALL be ALL. But when you play a merc for a year and never seen anything for it, I'll listen... otherwise...

[Brunner_Venda]

I will call this guy on this; Pyro Powertechs used to be a nightmare for everyone on the map because of their ability to unleash enormous damage in a short period of time. Smash was annoying yes, but a smash monkey got crushed when he was playing a strong pyro player. And yeah, it's not hard to succeed at. It has some of the best cooldowns in the game for DPSing, as it is the only DPS class with a pull(Tank sin doesn't count. They got melted by PTs pre 2.0 as well.) and a 15% increase to critical damage. A stacked thermal detonator that coincided with a second railshot in 4 GCDs was the end for any class before the fight started. Thats the complaint: this aspect is GONE.

 

PT got nerfed because PT needed to be nerfed. I've seen people still inflict enormous damage, but DoT classes are a joke in PvP. That's just a fact: healing is so much faster than dots. Lethality can claim to be an exception because of Cull. Otherwise, a good healer that manages to stay out of interrupt arcs can basically expunge the enormous amounts of damage a DoT class can do. It's all about burst now. Arsenal mercs are GOOD in PvP because they can stack railshot to HSM for 15k damage followed by a 12k channel with excellent critical procs. Sorcs are topping the charts with strong AoE, and snipers are snipers. In the current meta, spike damage is in, dot damage is out, and it really upsets teh PTs of the world.

 

But I was a merc from launch on. Get over yourselves PTs. You're still good contenders. Maybe not the end ALL be ALL. But when you play a merc for a year and never seen anything for it, I'll listen... otherwise...

 

First, you necroed a two month old post. Moron.

 

Second. 15K damage followed by 12K channel, with electronet on top of that - and PT is overpowered?! Seriously, read your own damn post before hitting the damn button.

 

Pyro PT's only post really good numbers when:

1. Guarded or

2. Have a pet operative healer following them around.

 

Seriously. Try the class sometime. It has no defensive CD's and one weak heal that only works in execute range. It was nerfed too hard and too far. It needs a good defensive CD and a slight increase to burst (or a cull-type ability) and PT pyros will be fine.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

This had been coming since 1.2. PT's had been taking the piss for a very long time.

 

However, as stated already, in the hands of a skilled player, any class is viable. We now see how many skilled PT players are actually out there.

Edited July 12, 2013 by ThorgrimLutgen

[nitroyoshi]

give PTs electro net

utility r fixed

[Brunner_Venda]

This had been coming since 1.2. PT's had been taking the piss for a very long time.

 

However, as stated already, in the hands of a skilled player, any class is viable. We now see how many skilled PT players are actually out there.

 

A skilled pyro would perform much better as well, ANYTHING else.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Weird, I know some PT'S that play in ranked, top charts, and is as valuable as most classes.

 

You know, low level and high level differ from each other considerably.

 

But I guess that you have already "forgotten" that.

[Keypek]

PTs/VGs aren't useless in anything. Still do great damage in pve. And still able to be useful in pvp. But in pvp we don't really bring anything to the table that other classes don't and they usually have better burst or more utility then PT/VG now. Which was what's mostly hillarious is before we were thee burst class and now everyone has burst specs except for PT/VGs. But we still have the worst defensive cds and utility isn't anything unique. Still useful in the right hands but not the best option generally.

 

I'm ok with bioware wanting to turn us into a dot class... that seems to be what they think we should be. But unfortuantely dot classes are mostly useless dps in good pvp. About the only way to make them relevant again is to either make the dots tick harder or faster or give a top tier talent spec to keep dots from being cleansable if that's how they want us to kill stuff.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Keypek

[Raazmir]

All you've done in this entire thread is scream "PT is fine! I do fine! PT is great! L2P!" but you haven't refuted anything anyone is saying. Name one thing Powertech brings to the team that can't be done better by some other class.

 

 

They can laugh in the face of mezz caps.

[Ottoattack]

There is a huge mix up in here between viable and optimal or best in position.

 

Viable means can you do reasonable damage and top dps in an avg. game. PTs in the hand of good players can, because 99% of the players in the WZ use their classes below 20% efficiency. Heck, if they make grandma a class I can sill top WZs with it. Does it mean its good? No.

 

Optimal means you excel in specific role that no other class can do it better than that class. PT per-expansion did not excel in survivability, utility or tanking. PT had one role and only one role that the class skills allowed, which is glass cannon as a pyro tech. After expansion, PT does not excel in anything. As tank, Jugg is better crowd defender and Sin is better node defender. Dps lacks in burst and is not even great as sustained. Survivability is non-existent and utility was never the class strongest suit, and can be substituted easily by sin and Jugg. What is the class optimal in?

 

Again, can an experienced player top pug WZs on consistent basis? Of course. Would the same player with a PT stand a chance in effecting the outcome of a game that is competitive, like RWZ or running against a competent pre-made? Absolutely not. Is the class under performing compared to other classes? No question. As tank the gap is small, as dps the gap is so huge.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Ottoattack

[hallucigenocide]

There is a huge mix up in here between viable and optimal or best in position.

 

Viable means can you do reasonable damage and top dps in an avg. game. PTs in the hand of good players can, because 99% of the players in the WZ use their classes below 20% efficiency. Heck, if they make grandma a class I can sill top WZs with it. Does it mean its good? No.

 

Optimal means you excel in specific role that no other class can do it better than that class. PT per-expansion did not excel in survivability, utility or tanking. PT had one role and only one role that the class skills allowed, which is glass cannon as a pyro tech. After expansion, PT does not excel in anything. As tank, Jugg is better crowd defender and Sin is better node defender. Dps lacks in burst and is not even great as sustained. Survivability is non-existent and utility was never the class strongest suit, and can be substituted easily by sin and Jugg. What is the class optimal in?

 

Again, can an experienced player top pug WZs on consistent basis? Of course. Would the same player with a PT stand a chance in effecting the outcome of a game that is competitive, like RWZ or running against a competent pre-made? Absolutely not. Is the class under performing compared to other classes? No question. As tank the gap is small, as dps the gap is so huge.

true the class is too reliant on support to be as effective as all other dps classes atm.. pyro could defenetly use an overhaul i mean just look at the tree there's hardly any choices to make because the lack of skills.. imo there should be one tree for tanking 1 for pve dps and 1 for pvp dps.. that's the only way i can see it work right now.. sure there's some moderate success with hybrid specs but we all know bioware's stance on that by now.

[TheRampage]

I usualy top every chart in wzs on my vanguard, unless there is good smasher or sage in it, it is more about aoe, dots, and luck to sum couple of stronger hits together.

 

But tbh, then I log sharpshooter/combat sentinel and I do same or more damage without even trying/knowing/caring.

 

I can live with this lousy damage, just give something in return, because on vanguard I die instant. I'm playing 7 other classes in pvp, so I know what they can do, what skills they have and how to counter them and it all comes to this- vanguard is easyest to kill (dont start with "heavy armor"),

Edited July 12, 2013 by TheRampage

[OldSpiceSwag]

two things:

 

1. pts did NOT need a nerf. they had nasty dps and little else, and now they have no nasty dps. if you put a pre 2.0 pt into a 2.0 it would do just fine, they almost didnt need to change it at all, except for scaling the dps up.

 

2. anyone that says pyro pt is fine now is wrong. flat out wrong. all this about "good players will still excel" and "i still crank out the dps/top the charts," well, meaningless fluffy dot damage is a pretty good way to pad stats...BUT you arent killing anything like you used to. the damage at the end of a wz DOES NOT MATTER if you cant kill anything. i could run balance on my sage and tab dot everyone and kill nothing, or i could run tk and light people up, maybe doing the same or even less damage on the scoreboard. good players will excel in regs because regs are regs and they are good players, but they will never go into rateds, where class balance matters and shows the most, and if they do their team will have to play 7.5 v 8.

[hallucigenocide]

I usualy top every chart in wzs on my vanguard, unless there is good smasher or sage in it, it is more about aoe, dots, and luck to sum couple of stronger hits together.

 

But tbh, then I log sharpshooter/combat sentinel and I do same or more damage without even trying/knowing/caring.

 

I can live with this lousy damage, just give something in return, because on vanguard I die instant. I'm playing 7 other classes in pvp, so I know what they can do, what skills they have and how to counter them and it all comes to this- vanguard is easyest to kill (dont start with "heavy armor"),

 

haha yeah heavy armor means nothing in this game.. wich is totally weird

[foxmob]

PTs/VGs aren't useless in anything. Still do great damage in pve. And still able to be useful in pvp. But in pvp we don't really bring anything to the table that other classes don't and they usually have better burst or more utility then PT/VG now. Which was what's mostly hillarious is before we were thee burst class and now everyone has burst specs except for PT/VGs. But we still have the worst defensive cds and utility isn't anything unique. Still useful in the right hands but not the best option generally.

I think you summarize the situation here fairly and succinctly. not terrible, but there's a better option in every aspect.

 

I'm ok with bioware wanting to turn us into a dot class... that seems to be what they think we should be. But unfortuantely dot classes are mostly useless dps in good pvp. About the only way to make them relevant again is to either make the dots tick harder or faster or give a top tier talent spec to keep dots from being cleansable if that's how they want us to kill stuff.

I don't disagree with what you say here so much as I'd like to point out that EVERY AC has a dot spec. making assault/pyro into a more traditional dot spec is fine. what's the burst spec? AP/Tactics? lol

 

every AC has a burst and a dot dps spec. usually, one is the clear choice for pvp. usually it's the burst spec. sometimes neither option is very good. PTs were always a little messed up in that their dot spec was their burst spec. and, frankly, it was excellent sustained dps also -- for anyone capable of resource management. imo, the root cause is that AP/Tactics doesn't have a clear telos in it's tree (or nobody's identified it) and pyro/assault, which was already very streamlined, carried the burden of both specs. high burst and dots galore: of course you're going to get nerfed...eventually.

 

to really rectify the situation, here's what I would do:

• make pyro a true dot spec. give them back their range on incendiary and TD/AP. beef up their defenses (probably something along the lines of better elemental since they're experts in the form?).
  
• rework AP/Tactics. you did this for deception. do it for tactics. maybe there is an effective way to play in high energy cell. the fact of the matter is that it's been over 1.5 years, and nobody's figured it out yet. make it a true burst spec. you can cut into its durability. make high energy cell worth a damn. you can almost spam attacks in pyro, so it's not like resource management is difficult without the faster regen. increasing burst on AP could be as simple as reducing the cd on missles from 1.5s to .75s. I really want to see some synergy between the pulse cannon roto and the hib roto.
  

these changes would coincided well with what's going on with mandos/mercs, because the shared tree is their only dot spec, and their unique tree is the clear burst spec. now that they have more reasonable defenses/escapes and utility, that burst tree is viable in pvp.

[Brunner_Venda]

Foxmob, you need to be nominated for advanced class rep or something.

 

If they added more burst to AP, even one move (immolate or rail) on a 15 second cooldown, it would be perfect. The spec deserves a taste of a 6k warzone damage medal. Right now it doesn't get any.

 

As it is, when I chase a healer with AP, they kind of laugh at me and sit there healing others. AP isn't a threat at all in a team game.

[foxmob]

As it is, when I chase a healer with AP, they kind of laugh at me and sit there healing others. AP isn't a threat at all in a team game.

 

ideally, I"ll catch them in a fully buffed flamethrower while blistering them with 7 missiles from shoulder cannon. that's the only way I can bring down a half decent op. it's actually fairly easy to push your average sage into barrier. I'm pretty hopeless (solo) against mando heals though. usually, I'm just the support dps who finishes them with a rb + rp + rail.

[Boch]

Foxmob, you need to be nominated for advanced class rep or something.

 

If they added more burst to AP, even one move (immolate or rail) on a 15 second cooldown, it would be perfect. The spec deserves a taste of a 6k warzone damage medal. Right now it doesn't get any.

 

As it is, when I chase a healer with AP, they kind of laugh at me and sit there healing others. AP isn't a threat at all in a team game.

 

Change the 4 piece set bonus to increase rail shot/hib damage by 15% or more.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Boch

[foxmob]

Change the 4 piece set bonus to increase rail shot/hib damage by 15% or more.

 

that reminds me: I'm also not wild about hib/rail being so important to both specs. for example, the combat tech armor is clearly designed for pt dps whereas eliminator is for mercs. I mean...the fact that the first set bonus is for an ability that pts don't even have is a pretty obvious clue. but the (heh) dot spec is so hyped up around rail that it's worth it to take the "wrong" set. (I'd just add something to eliminator for both ACs in this situation, which is more a pet peeve).

Edited July 12, 2013 by foxmob

[Boch]

that reminds me: I'm also not wild about hib/rail being so important to both specs. for example, the combat tech armor is clearly designed for pt dps whereas eliminator is for mercs. I mean...the fact that the first set bonus is for an ability that pts don't even have is a pretty obvious clue. but the (heh) dot spec is so hyped up around rail that it's worth it to take the "wrong" set. (I'd just add something to eliminator for both ACs in this situation, which is more a pet peeve).

 

Didn't really think of this, but one of my issues with both pt DPS specs is there spec only abilities ( like pyros IM and TD) are very lack luster.

[Brunner_Venda]

Change the 4 piece set bonus to increase rail shot/hib damage by 15% or more.

 

For combat tech? Yes that would do it.