Subscription: Advertisement vs Truth

[ML_DoubleTap]

I believe the issue that you wanted to have addressed is that currently it states "Full access to all character creation choices." As of this moment this terminology is still correct as subscribers do have full access to those choices. We will be updating that page (along with any others that make similar references) once Game Update 2.1 goes live.

 

-eric

 

I generally defend ya'll, but this statement is either poorly worded or a bit shady. So basically you're doing a bait and switch from your description. "There are current perks and as we remove those, we'll just simply update the pages that describe them."

 

IMO, it really should have been a legacy type perk that you could unlock. Like Field Respec or similar. Either a large amount of credits or cartel coins to unlock the options on your toon. I like that model as there's still a way to do it without spending extra money. This is the first time I've felt a bit slighted as a sub. Certainly not something I'll leave over...I think it's silly when peopl throw that out and you know they don't mean it...I just think this is a poor way of bring this feature out. Hopefully I'm wrong as we're yet to learn some details. If charging per slider on character custimization isn't nickel and diming, I don't know what is

 

On the dyes, I would love either a free option to dye to a set of predetermined guild colors, or an option for the guild to buy that feature w/ in game credits. My guild attempts to outfit our toons in Red with either silver or black, and on the Pub side that really limits options. A Guild Color template would be a nice addition.

[TUXs]

Well, you made a point of stating that you EXPECT there to be more stuff than customization stuff in the Customization patch. So, I was just curious as to what exactly you'll do when you're disappointed when you don't get what you want.

 

Why so nosy? Does my choice effect you in any way?

 

I expect more than a cartel market update.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Master Musco, when can we expect more news? I know there will be something up this week with Dulfy and I'd love to know which day!

[Lostpenguins]

I generally defend ya'll, but this statement is either poorly worded or a bit shady. So basically you're doing a bait and switch from your description. "There are current perks and as we remove those, we'll just simply update the pages that describe them."

No, you're wrong. Good luck trying to use an advertisement for coca cola being 5 cents back from 1930's and using it now. Advertisements are only legitimate for so long as they are being currently used. Currently, BW's advertisement is true, thus they aren't being shady.

[ML_DoubleTap]

No, you're wrong. Good luck trying to use an advertisement for coca cola being 5 cents back from 1930's and using it now. Advertisements are only legitimate for so long as they are being currently used. Currently, BW's advertisement is true, thus they aren't being shady.

 

Not a very good comparison, but fair enough. Everything I stated was simply my opinion, and in my opinion it is a poor decision to charge the way it sounds like they are planning on. I spend a lot of money on this game in xp buffs, character unlocks, but charging per customization and per slider seems a little excessive. I'd have rather it been a one time unlock/purchase for general appearance. But, like I said, it's not something I'm that extremely upset over.

 

On another note, putting colors into packs seems like another pretty poor decision. If they're going to charge for something as simple as changing the color on a piece of gear they should at the very least allow them to be bought directly.

[Alec_Fortescue]

No, you're wrong. Good luck trying to use an advertisement for coca cola being 5 cents back from 1930's and using it now. Advertisements are only legitimate for so long as they are being currently used. Currently, BW's advertisement is true, thus they aren't being shady.

 

What about someone watching recent trailers and deciding to buy TOR now without knowing that this information is gonna change soon?

[Viperswhip]

I am a bit surprised, there is zero chance of me making one I suppose, but I have been a subscriber, well, I skipped 10 months, but since the beginning and I am bit shocked that this race will only be available to those who purchase it.

 

I am trying to think, umm, DDO is the only other game I play that has locked classes and races for subscribers but you can unlock those through gameplay as well.

 

So, I am taken aback but at this stage I have at least one of every class (with the alt subclass on the other faction), and am happy enough with that.

[Andryah]

I generally defend ya'll, but this statement is either poorly worded or a bit shady. So basically you're doing a bait and switch from your description. "There are current perks and as we remove those, we'll just simply update the pages that describe them."

 

Gee... the contents of what you receive under a continuing subscription are changing over time. What is the problem?

 

The OP tried to pin them on their statement of content for subscribers as justification for complaint. Eric pointed out that it is still currently accurate and that they will be revising it in conjunction with changes to the game in patch 2.1 Pretty common in business actually.... that on a recurring subscription to something... the actual contents (even price) of said subscription changes over time. Cable TV service is ample evidence of this.... as is internet service providers, phones service providers, etc. etc. etc.

[Andryah]

I'm not complaining. From my previous MMO experience new races came with expansions, but those expansions were more expensive. Now, I can avoid paying for something I never plan to using... it's fantastic! And even if I did want to, it would take 1 1/5 months of free cartel coins for me to unlock it. So, in the end, it's still free for me, as a subscriber.

 

Really, I really feel like people who are complaining are just complaining for the sake of complaining. They ignore that they can use their free CC coins to unlock something or that the expansion didn't include it and up the cost.

 

The argument can be brought down to semantics of "Oh, now I'm forced to use my free coins for content update..." or "this wans't a real expansion", blah, blah, blah. Really, sometimes you're fighting so hard to look right, that instead you just look ridiculous.

 

I agree on all points.

 

I really don't get the issue here some are pontificating on. It's a fee for service product. Product changes over time. Even fees can change over time.

[Andryah]

I am a bit surprised, there is zero chance of me making one I suppose, but I have been a subscriber, well, I skipped 10 months, but since the beginning and I am bit shocked that this race will only be available to those who purchase it.

 

Are you unique and do not receive cartel coins as a subscriber each month??

[Andryah]

What about someone watching recent trailers and deciding to buy TOR now without knowing that this information is gonna change soon?

 

OK... what about it?

 

Besides.. you don't buy TOR now.. it's free to download and try it out.

[PlayLoud]

I believe the issue that you wanted to have addressed is that currently it states "Full access to all character creation choices." As of this moment this terminology is still correct as subscribers do have full access to those choices. We will be updating that page (along with any others that make similar references) once Game Update 2.1 goes live.

 

-eric

I have to say that I completely disagree with this decision. To this point, I have been generally happy with the subscriber perks. However, having subscribers pay for a new species (and priced over half as much as we paid for the entire RoTHC expansion at that!) does not follow the spirit of your Subscription/F2P model.

 

If even subscribers have to pay for this new species, I would hope that new voice overs have been recorded to provide custom dialog when playing the Cathar. I know that some species (such as my Sith Pureblood Consular) receive default "human" dialog. There is even a dialog choice that I have that says "Do I look like a Sith to you?"

If you are going to charge subscribers for the Cathar, I hope you at least went the distance, and recorded new dialog. Otherwise, this should most certainly be free for subscribers.

[Alec_Fortescue]

OK... what about it?

 

Besides.. you don't buy TOR now.. it's free to download and try it out.

 

I obviously meant a sub

[ML_DoubleTap]

Are you unique and do not receive cartel coins as a subscriber each month??

 

Not directed at me, but I use my monthly allotment, plus a lot more. Since 2.0 I've bought 2 of the 5500 coin lots. I enjoy this game a lot and don't have a problem w/ paying for things. But charging per toon, per customization and per slider is a bit far in my opinion. Obviously not in your opinion and that's fine. We both pay our subscription and are both perfectly entitled to share that opinion with those we pay.

[JimG]

Gee... the contents of what you receive under a continuing subscription are changing over time. What is the problem?

 

The OP tried to pin them on their statement of content for subscribers as justification for complaint. Eric pointed out that it is still currently accurate and that they will be revising it in conjunction with changes to the game in patch 2.1 Pretty common in business actually.... that on a recurring subscription to something... the actual contents (even price) of said subscription changes over time. Cable TV service is ample evidence of this.... as is internet service providers, phones service providers, etc. etc. etc.

 

Some people think they have a lawsuit every time someone looks at them the wrong way. They throw around terms like "false advertising" and "bait and switch" as if they have a clue how those sorts of claims work under the law. I'd love to see one of these people go to an attorney's office with some of this nonsense I see posted on these forums just to see how quickly they get laughed out of the office.

 

I can't imagine someone is that naive that they think these sorts of ridiculous threats will actually cause BW to give away Cathar for free....but who knows what runs through some people's minds. Is 600 coins that big of a deal? Subs get 500 per month just for subbing so anyone who has been subbing more than a month should be able to get the Cathar for free....unless, of course, they have been buying Cartel packs despite their supposed anti-Cartel Market stance. I might just start up a Cathar assistance scholarship program for people who apparently can't scrape together 600 coins if it means the forums will no longer be cluttered up with their rants, lol.

[Rankyn]

No, you're wrong. Good luck trying to use an advertisement for coca cola being 5 cents back from 1930's and using it now. Advertisements are only legitimate for so long as they are being currently used. Currently, BW's advertisement is true, thus they aren't being shady.

This.

The game is evolving and something that is true as of this moment won't be completely accurate once 2.1 is released so when that happens (and not before), they'll update the language.

 

That's why you often see the phrase "subject to change without notice" or "while supplies last" in disclaimers.

It keeps people from trying to play armchair lawyer on things like this.

[SithVeritas]

I believe the issue that you wanted to have addressed is that currently it states "Full access to all character creation choices." As of this moment this terminology is still correct as subscribers do have full access to those choices. We will be updating that page (along with any others that make similar references) once Game Update 2.1 goes live.

 

-eric

 

Way to screw your playerbase over.

 

Forget you guys.

[CosmicKat]

I believe the issue that you wanted to have addressed is that currently it states "Full access to all character creation choices." As of this moment this terminology is still correct as subscribers do have full access to those choices. We will be updating that page (along with any others that make similar references) once Game Update 2.1 goes live.

 

-eric

 

I am reminded of the scene in 1984...

 

Q: How do you spin a reduction in the chocolate ration from 30g to 25g?

 

A: You announce it as an increase in the chocolate ration from 20g to 25g.

[JediCahlwyn]

Way to screw your playerbase over.

 

Forget you guys.

 

They aren't screwing anyone over. Come on guys you are blowing it way out of proportion. Is this what gamers and the modern society has devolved into? A bunch of whiners who blow the tiniest thing out of proportion in a huge attempt at attention seeking?

 

Boo-hoo! Oh noes, Bioware/EA wants to make a profit on a product that they have to pay to create & maintain. The horrible people they are... come on, grow up. You don't like it? Don't play!

[Lostpenguins]

Not a very good comparison, but fair enough. Everything I stated was simply my opinion, and in my opinion it is a poor decision to charge the way it sounds like they are planning on. I spend a lot of money on this game in xp buffs, character unlocks, but charging per customization and per slider seems a little excessive. I'd have rather it been a one time unlock/purchase for general appearance. But, like I said, it's not something I'm that extremely upset over.

 

On another note, putting colors into packs seems like another pretty poor decision. If they're going to charge for something as simple as changing the color on a piece of gear they should at the very least allow them to be bought directly.

Depends on what the costs per slider. Here's the thing, micro-transactions are better for people using them on a smaller scale. I only plan on changing my toon's body type (I hate Body Type 3 clipping in this game) and hair-style. Everything else will stay the same, so I'm happy I'm not paying a higher cost for only using 2 of the features.

 

I haven't read anything on the color dyes, but if they're from packs, and if they're pretty common, you can expect to see them flooding the GTN for cheap prices.

What about someone watching recent trailers and deciding to buy TOR now without knowing that this information is gonna change soon?

Ignorance doesn't declare innocence. Besides, anyone who is looking at those trailers from before mentioning how they can play all the races would never have seen Cathar as a playable race, thus they shouldn't be misled to believe that Cathar would be free to play.

[Dragonesque]

I am reminded of the scene in 1984...

 

Q: How do you spin a reduction in the chocolate ration from 30g to 25g?

 

A: You announce it as an increase in the chocolate ration from 20g to 25g.

 

I'm curious as to what reminded you of that scene, since it is entirely irrelevant.

 

Language for sub features are relevant and accurate at present. Disclaimers always say subject to change. They are changing the language as the features change. Problem?

[Andryah]

Not directed at me, but I use my monthly allotment, plus a lot more. Since 2.0 I've bought 2 of the 5500 coin lots. I enjoy this game a lot and don't have a problem w/ paying for things. But charging per toon, per customization and per slider is a bit far in my opinion. Obviously not in your opinion and that's fine. We both pay our subscription and are both perfectly entitled to share that opinion with those we pay.

 

By contrast... I for the most part save my monthly allotment. I only spend on things that I cannot aquire off the GTN for reasonable price. Most often.. I spend to buy legacy speeder access for a new character or an unlock that is IMO too pricey in game (such as the last slot in a cargo bay, and even these.. I buy the unlock off the GTN most of the time). I have never purchased coins and I currently have almost 3000.

 

My point? The personal economics of cartel coins is personal. It in no way reflects any form of entitlement to have something free from Bioware just becasue of how one manages their cartel coins.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Andryah

[ninjonxb]

Wow people need to learn to think...

People are complaining that they are changing the wording to remove things from the game... WHAT?

They are changing the wording because they are adding ADDITIONAL things that you do not automatically get with a subscription.

It is no different than with RoTC and any expansion pack ever put out. You don't automatically get what is in that expansion pack just because you have a subscription.

In WoW did you gat access the blood elves, dranai, or Pandarin. NO you had to BUY the expansion pack to have ACCESS.

[Lostpenguins]

I am reminded of the scene in 1984...

 

Q: How do you spin a reduction in the chocolate ration from 30g to 25g?

 

A: You announce it as an increase in the chocolate ration from 20g to 25g.

Wow... look, it's CosmicKat with the bad analogies.

 

Total # of playable races before 2.1 w/out add'l costs to play them: 9.

Total # of playable races on and after 2.1 w/out add'l costs to play them: 9.

 

That doesn't look like a reduction to me. So really, it's 30g to 30g, they just offered you the ability to get a 35mg version for a slightly higher cost (if you can't save up 600 coins from your sub stipend which means, it's basically free).

Edited April 29, 2013 by Lostpenguins

[Starglitter]

They don't have to tell you anything.. The money you get from your entitlement is yours to spend on whatever you want.. What ever you spend it on, those are FREE coins.. You did not pay for them.. They came as part of your subscription.. So whatever you did buy with them, you got for free.. So why are you complaining about having to pay for the Cathar unlock or anything else..

 

There is nothing wrong with what they are doing.. They are not false advertising and they are treating subscribers poorly..

 

As for the OP?? We as subscribers were never promised full access to customizations.. What is being talked about is a barber shop type function.. That does a lot more than just cut your hair.. Typically speaking.. Thinks like this are in a cash shop or purchased from a website..

 

He should change his thread title.. His truth V. Truth..

 

Do you work for SWTOR? If not, they should hire you...

 

I think you are splitting hairs, just to be argumentative.

 

It is in poor taste, to give subscribers and allotment of cartel currency that originally was intended for you to get more enjoyment of the game and later change the definition of said allotment to actually use the content of an expansion.

 

Its like me telling you I am giving yo a $10 allowance to go and have fun, and a month later I come to you and say, if you want to eat, use your allowance.

 

I know, there is nothing illegal in doing this, but it does not remove the lack of taste by doing so. Just because something is legal, it does not make it nice, nor mandatroy you should like either.

 

Oh and by the way, the coin allowance you get its not free, you did pay for them as part of the benefits associated with the subscription, its part of the package. If they are free, then anyone would get them regardless of subscription status; huge difference.

 

Sue