Helig Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Its not balanced in the sense that the two are equal, its balanced so that the lowbie has a fighting chance, but the higher level player still gets rewarded for leveling. If they made it so that a level 10 with bolster == a level 50 player, then why bother leveling to level 50? Aside the annoying "acting tough" tone, I agree with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensiberia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have PvP'ed since level 12 constantly while questing. I am now level 27 with rank 22 valor. I have faced every level of character. Yes, some are much harder. But, if you die to a much higher character, don't get bent out of shape. Just stick with others. Warzones are about teamwork, after all. Regardless of whether you win or lose, you get xp, credits, accomedations, etc. I just wish you got dark side/light side points whenever you won, something like 10. You will absolutely get better playing other players that are better than you. It forces you to do one of two things: 1.) Learn your class and focus on your rotations/skills more. 2.) Come on a forum and complain because you don't like playing hardmode. GO and play 100 games in row vervsus 50 lvl premade, and tell them about your great skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharbison Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Its not balanced in the sense that the two are equal, its balanced so that the lowbie has a fighting chance, but the higher level player still gets rewarded for leveling. If they made it so that a level 10 with bolster == a level 50 player, then why bother leveling to level 50? You being at a disadvantage at a low level vs a higher player is game balance as it is intended to be. You have a bigger chance of Jessica Alba, Scarlett Johansen and Blake Lively coming to your house and demanding sexual favors from you than you have of your argument being taken seriously by anyone. OMG Jessica Alba is coming to my place! Ok, well you're basically saying taking a knife to a gun fight is fair. So be it! Good hunting sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestwulf Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Being at a disadvantage because someone is higher level/has better gear than you is balance, if you weren't at a disadvantage it would be unbalanced, but I guess you wouldn't complain then since it would be unbalanced in your favor. Being at a disadvantage is not what is being argued here. Being FORCED to be at that disadvantage is. You have just said a lvl 50 should pretty much rule a lvl 10. If they can't why be level 50? So why the heck put level 10's in with level 50's knowing, as you have just pointed out, that it would be completely unbalanced if they weren't Fodder. It does not boil down to skill or premades or anything like that. It's being forced to play as fodder, no matter what your skill level is, that people are objecting to. Of course every pvp griefer wants their free kills and will say things like l2p, whatever they have to so they can keep stroking that digital ego. Later, they will say that they play for the challenge! Yeah, whatever. Skilled level 10 vs. incompetent level 50 == dead 10, as it should be. the warzone pvp should be set up so that it is a challenge, 10's vs. 50's is not a challenge it's just a griefer paradise. If higher levels *really* want in quicker with shorter queues, then they should weight the PVP. If one side has several high level players, limit how many can join their team and allow more to join the opposing team. one level 10 vs. a lvl 50 is no match, but 3 or 4 level 10's could at least put up a struggle and make it difficult for the lvl 50. If you truly want to balance this without limiting with brackets, then you need to weight the team sides to make up for level differences. Bolstering stats will never replace Abilities. a low level character can't do enough damage to a high level tank, they can't mitigate enough damage vs. a high level dpser and they can never kill a healing class with all their heals. A low level characters only hope is an afk piker. Edited December 21, 2011 by Pestwulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briljin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 When you play with bad players, you stay bad. The only way to improve is to play with/against better players. Learn from your losses, observe what your enemies do, and get better. There is nothing to learn from being constantly steam rolled by opponents you have no chance of defeating. You do learn from balanced fights, where the deciding factor is skill and tactics but that is not the situation the OP is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensiberia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Iam talking not just about 50 lvls. They have teamspeak, they from one guild, and they played in other games together. Solution is: 1. Make brackets 10-19, 20-29, 30-39,40-49, 50 2. Make premades versus premades only. After WOW, AoC and Rift i thought it is default PVP options... Edited December 21, 2011 by Greensiberia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurie Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 My gear is within a level or 2 of my current one and last night I was hit once by a level 50 as a level 22 and died. How is that balanced ? Did you run into one of those firepits in hutball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestwulf Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Iam talking not just about 50 lvls. They have teamspeak, they from one guild, and they played in other games together. Solution is: 1. Make brackets 10-19, 20-29, 30-39,40-49, 50 2. Make premades versus premades only. After WOW, AoC and Rift i thought it is default PVP options... Pre-mades can suck if there is a low pvp population and game after game is against a pre-made. As much as I don't like facing them, I don't think they should be penalized for bringing another level of organization to the game. Yeah, they are going to roll you 9 times out of 10 unless you take the time and effort to organize your own. But as long as there is enough variety, it should be tolerable to lose to the premades when they are up. However, as in other battlegrounds, if premades are 99% of what you face every time, the there will be fewer and fewer people in pvp and the wait times for queues will skyrocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensiberia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Pre-mades can suck if there is a low pvp population and game after game is against a pre-made. As much as I don't like facing them, I don't think they should be penalized for bringing another level of organization to the game. Yeah, they are going to roll you 9 times out of 10 unless you take the time and effort to organize your own. But as long as there is enough variety, it should be tolerable to lose to the premades when they are up. However, as in other battlegrounds, if premades are 99% of what you face every time, the there will be fewer and fewer people in pvp and the wait times for queues will skyrocket. They can gather second premade and go to Huttball. Or they can go as pug. There is no problem with queues. Edited December 21, 2011 by Greensiberia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharbison Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Keep bolstering, just add level brackets to reduce the imbalance to tolerable levels & keep it challenging. I can't believe queues will be long as there are like 40 servers that are med/high/full at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMThomp Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 #include <sarcasm> At least your damage and hp scale accordingly, but that is still an unfair advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scelerant Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Iam talking not just about 50 lvls. They have teamspeak, they from one guild, and they played in other games together. Solution is: 1. Make brackets 10-19, 20-29, 30-39,40-49, 50 That has been tried countless times and leads to longer queues for everyone, which is exactly what Bioware is trying to avoid. 2. Make premades versus premades only. After WOW, AoC and Rift i thought it is default PVP options... It worked poorly in WoW, worked poorly in AoC and worked rather poorly in Rift. In WoW it just ensured long queues and once the premades were gone the anti-premade crowd just went on to complain about everything else. That's the thing, the complainers will find something to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undies Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Iam talking not just about 50 lvls. They have teamspeak, they from one guild, and they played in other games together. Solution is: 1. Make brackets 10-19, 20-29, 30-39,40-49, 50 2. Make premades versus premades only. After WOW, AoC and Rift i thought it is default PVP options... Bulstering leads to so much more PvP because everyone is pooled together. Brackets break everyone up. Once the game passes this peak and everyone isn't on at the same time (population levels out), you won't want those brackets because, whats better? Playing or ... not playing because the bracket you're in is empty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensiberia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Keep bolstering, just add level brackets to reduce the imbalance to tolerable levels & keep it challenging. I can't believe queues will be long as there are like 40 servers that are med/high/full at this time. There is no cross-server WZs. But server capacity is 10000. And there is Hutball, where one faction is no need another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharbison Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) ...whats better? Playing or ... not playing because the bracket you're in is empty? I'd rather queue for 5-10 minutes for a balanced bracket match than insta-queue and get facerolled! Edited December 21, 2011 by tharbison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensiberia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) That has been tried countless times and leads to longer queues for everyone, which is exactly what Bioware is trying to avoid. It worked poorly in WoW, worked poorly in AoC and worked rather poorly in Rift. In WoW it just ensured long queues and once the premades were gone the anti-premade crowd just went on to complain about everything else. That's the thing, the complainers will find something to complain about. It works perfect in all this games. And i have never met with queues on BG and WF. Edited December 21, 2011 by Greensiberia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undies Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I'd rather queue for 5-10 minutes for a balanced bracket match than insta-queue and get facerolled! You won't get facerolled all the time. I get "facerolled" about 30% of the time, but 30% of the time my team is doing the facerolling, and 40% of the time is a good even fight. If you get facerolled often, it's not the levels that are the problem. And that is where more frequent PvP can help in the learning process! And guess what? win or not, great XP/commendations/credits. Edited December 21, 2011 by undies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensiberia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) You won't get facerolled all the time. I get "facerolled" about 30% of the time, but 30% of the time my team is doing the facerolling, and 40% of the time is a good even fight. If you get facerolled often, it's not the levels that are the problem. And that is where more frequent PvP can help in the learning process! It seems like you never played against russians or germans premades. Credits cant replace fun. Edited December 21, 2011 by Greensiberia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestwulf Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 They can gather second premade and go to Huttball. Or they can go as pug. There is no problem with queues. I don't think you understand what I was trying to say there. What I mean is that if pugs face pre-mades every time they go into a battleground, they will get what they want from it and then just stop queuing. This is what happened in WoW all the time. The pre-made, better organized team ruled the day by an overwhelming margin every time and instead of making a pre-made, the other team got sick of it and left. Leaving the pre-made teams with hellishly long queues. So while I think Pre-made vs. pug's are an OK thing, if it gets out of balance and there are more-premades...it's going to kill itself. For whatever reason, even if it's their own fault, people will get tired of having no chance and will not queue. I'm not placing blame here, I'm just saying how it played out in other games. So far, it doesn't seem that bad, especially since pre-mades are limited to 4 person groups. It considerably impacts how effective a pre-made can be. They still have an advantage, but its not as universal as the entire opposing team being a pre-made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undies Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It seems like you never played against russians or germans premades. You must not be talking about this game. There are no premades in this game. max of 4 per group and very rare that you can get both groups in one match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensiberia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 You must not be talking about this game. There are no premades in this game. max of 4 per group and very rare that you can get both groups in one match. I cant show to you screenshot with 8 ppl 50lvl premade. Because this stupid game is not supports in scoreboard players lvl column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Why Bioware never made a level filter for PvP I'll never know. Past few days I've seen high 40's and level 50's just own the pvp warzones because they have much more health and more advanced abilities. There is 0 balance. We need to have filters... Level 10-16, etc. Edited December 21, 2011 by Eillack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scelerant Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It works perfect in all this games. And i have never met with queues on BG and WF. WoW regularly had in excess of 40 minute queues on many servers prior to cross server BGs, WAR had the same thing for Destruction. That alone ruins your "It works perfect" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undies Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I cant show to you screenshot with 8 ppl 50lvl premade. Because this stupid game is not supports in scoreboard players lvl column. The other problem I see is, there is a perception that you have to WIN to have fun. If thats the case, I pity you guys that feel this way. I hope that Bioware doesn't change things just so that everyone can have their best chance at winning. As others have stated, the moment you start watering things down you might as well play an FPS. A new Warzone Idea: Story driven PvP scenerio. You have attackers and defenders. Attackers choose from multiple discussions which thing to complain about. Defenders choose which to rebuttle. your big qq topics go on cooldowns. You dps with your words. At the end, a Hutt comes out and eats you all. It's a tie! no one loses and you become Hutt's next bowel movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensiberia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) The other problem I see is, there is a perception that you have to WIN to have fun. If thats the case, I pity you guys that feel this way. I hope that Bioware doesn't change things just so that everyone can have their best chance at winning. As others have stated, the moment you start watering things down you might as well play an FPS. A new Warzone Idea: Story driven PvP scenerio. You have attackers and defenders. Attackers choose from multiple discussions which thing to complain about. Defenders choose which to rebuttle. your big qq topics go on cooldowns. You dps with your words. At the end, a Hutt comes out and eats you all. It's a tie! no one loses and you become Hutt's next bowel movement. FUN it is not to loose 100% of WZ games. Edited December 21, 2011 by Greensiberia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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