Remove HIGH LVLs and premades from low-lvl pugs WARZOMES

[tharbison]

Not to be insulting, but the average player I've ran into is fairly bad due to not having learned how to use their abilities, what rotation works best, when to CC and when not to CC and quite a bit more.

 

That's the thing. Even if you're 'bad' you should still get a fighting chance. Fighting a seasoned 50 puts good AND bad players at a huge disadvantage for many reasons.

[Magneticyellow]

-_-. Bolstering is enough for now. I've been mainly pvp'ing for credits/exp from level 10 to 19 now. I MUCH prefer fighting level 50's (that aren't much stronger without pvp gear) to waiting for queues just to fight people my level. I got into a fight 1 v 1 in hutt ball with a sith juggernaut (I'm a marauder) that was trying to push up my ramp. He was lvl 27 and I was level 15. I killed him and was left at half health on my own. I'm not saying I'm skilled or uber powerful, but I did use my abilities better than he used his. Level isn't as huge of a factor as brain power. I've killed plenty of 50's, not on my own but with a couple teammates no problem. 1 v 1's are unlikely in pvp unless you're dumb or stubborn.

 

Plus losing isn't a very big deal. You get less in rewards, sure, but not much less.

[undies]

Maybe! I could see the 50 cc'g one or two of the lowbies, then pick them off one atta time...

 

It's just not going to happen unless they're truly new. those lowbies have cc breaks, and they can't all be on cooldowns, they also have their own ccs. there are just so many variables to overcome a lvl 50.

[Bdaw]

NO! I don't want to get better, I pay $15 a month and that should make me just as good as anyone else, I shouldn't have to learn anything, I should be able to just spam random buttons and win every time!!! That's why I don't want mods and addons, because I'd have to learn how to use them, I'd have to practice and become a better player and I'm already awesome, its just that everyone owns me!!!

 

/sarcasm off.

 

This poster has it right, learn how to play not learn how to complain.

 

Unfortunately this is the mentality that devs fall into pleasing that ends up ruining an MMO (sorry to compare) but raiding and pvp system in WoW from Wrath and Cata is an absolute JOKE compared to Vanilla. All because devs couldn't stand strong. Please SWTOR devs stay strong, these people who do complain will eventually get better and thank you for not noobifying the game.

[Tomeru]

No. With the Bolster buff you can still win in warzones. OW PVP I agree, but WZ's just, no. Use tactics/environments/consumables. Not saying it's easy but because you can't do it doesn't mean I can't.

 

Try not to fail and give up immediately in future. L2P.

 

SO basically you're telling the OP to avoid the higher lvled players.

 

There is a difference between learning the map layout and using it, to learn to play against players who are 20+ levels above you.

 

I know it's possible to win in a match, but there is a difference. The matches can be much more intense if everyone is around the same level and have the same gear. That's when you learn to really play.

[Scelerant]

That's the thing. Even if you're 'bad' you should still get a fighting chance. Fighting a seasoned 50 puts good AND bad players at a huge disadvantage for many reasons.

 

No, if you are bad you should be mercilessly dominated so that you know you're bad and need to improve. If bad players do not realize how bad they are they end up posting nerf threads about things that are perfectly fine.

[tharbison]

No, if you are bad you should be mercilessly dominated so that you know you're bad and need to improve. If bad players do not realize how bad they are they end up posting nerf threads about things that are perfectly fine.

 

Being bad and balance are two different things. Even the 'good' player against a 50 is at a disadvantage, that's the point. Doesn't matter what your 'skill' is, as a lowbie you are at a disadvantage. Doesn't matter how 'good' you are.

[Magneticyellow]

It is fine to state that lowbie's are at a disadvantage against 50's. That should be the case (it is logic). You can't level lock in this game, can you? You have a lot of quest content to explore, right? No one that plays the game will be stuck as a lowbie. Eventually everyone who plays will get to 50. So forcing tiered pvp matches is just giving us less pvp. Especially since winning doesn't give much more rewards than losing.

[iFoo]

SO basically you're telling the OP to avoid the higher lvled players.

 

There is a difference between learning the map layout and using it, to learn to play against players who are 20+ levels above you.

 

I know it's possible to win in a match, but there is a difference. The matches can be much more intense if everyone is around the same level and have the same gear. That's when you learn to really play.

 

That's pretty much the opposite of what I was saying.

 

I encourage of people try instead cry. Fighting a harder opponent makes you learn/think, giving up and crying on the forums that the dev's have already stated they will not check is just wasting everyone's time because emo-OP can't control his menstruation.

 

If it's hard, try harder and think of the bigger picture. If players had to queue to log in to the game, then queue to get in to a warzone it would be more damaging to BioWare than the occasional nerd rage about lvl 50's (with in 24 hours of official release, I might add).

 

Old topic is old and repeated.

 

P.S Scelerant, you're my new favourite (the old one died of troll AIDS).

Edited December 21, 2011 by iFoo

[G-Seven]

I don't understand the issue with premades? The cap is four (4) players, correct?

[undies]

I don't understand the issue with premades? The cap is four (4) players, correct?

 

Yeap, It's astonishing that there is still outcry of premade when, in fact, we can't truly premade. group cap is 4. sigh.

[iBleedU]

I have played lots of mmos but never been active in PVP as much. Last time I did lots of pvping was in either Star Wars Galaxies or RF Online (Korean Game run by Codemasters at the time).

 

In TOR I did see lots of high level players usually pit against me and yeah I died lots of times never with one hit but I died.

 

After about 40 sessions I have started to get a feel for my character and my build, I know what I can do and cant do. I learned that I cant approach PVP like a PVE situation definatly not!.

 

I am currently level 26 on my main and I am actually doing well in PVP now but thats because I had to first understand the play style of not just myself but also my enemies.

 

What I am trying to say is that you cant expect to be put against people your level and dominate. If that happens that what about when you are high level and in a tough spot will you just give up or claim it shouldnt be like that because your paying $15?

 

Everyone playing is paying, everyone is in the same boat as you, some people are good iv pvp because thats all they do and others have to learn. I had to learn its not so bad.

 

Just dont give up keep at it dude, Once you know your character you will do good.

 

pEace.

[Thaonnor]

You are doing something wrong. My level 13 BH is leading damage in most warzones, most times near the top for kills and objectives as well.

 

Do not nerf a system because some people cannot compete as a low level player. There are others who are doing just fine, and this system ensures that we can continue to use the server only PvP pool and not wait in the que for hours.

 

Premades are a part of the game. I want to be able to play with my friends and guild members. If you do not wish to play against premades, I suggest a PvE server, where they are much less common than PvP servers where all PvP guilds congregate.

 

Same dumb arguments from people asking for nerfs to systems that are just fine.

[iFoo]

I don't understand the issue with premades? The cap is four (4) players, correct?

 

Yes, and even when we queue with multiple clan groups we rarely get on the same team (has happened once). Normally we go vs eachother, which is cool.. but we wana play together vs other guilds.

 

But, they have said they'll implement this. Patience is a virtue I hear, but I disagree so I'm going to ask for a nerf on patience from the devs as I want everything now.

 

iBleedU - Nice post, nice to see a mature and helpful response. I gave up on giving them years ago

Edited December 21, 2011 by iFoo

[Thaonnor]

Bolstered or not, people who say a 10 fighting a 50 is fair must be the level 50! It doesn't have anything to do with 'L2P', it has to do with abilities/gear/stats/balance. There's no way a bolstered 10 has a chance in hell against a 50. Get real.

 

Gotta have brackets. Some might say 'but the queues'!! (qq!). C'mon, really? The game has something like 40 servers, most are heavy/full. Besides I'd rather wait 5 minutes for a fair, balanced match then insta que to get face rolled.

 

So basically you want to be able to completely compete in PvP at level 10? Why level at all if you can just PvP and be competitive at level 10?

 

There has to be an incentive to get to the next level. If you cannot compete, stick with others or come back in a few levels with a few more abilities.

[Thaonnor]

You're right, it's not 1 v 1. It's usually 3-4 focusing on 1. And when that 1 is a level 50, he wins. That's balance?

 

You aren't doing it right then... My BH has no problem taking on high 40s and with the help of another player often 50s. I hate to be that guy that says learn to play but... learn to play your classes people. You are 1 day into launch going against people who have been playing their toons for a week and who probably played them in beta before that.

[Scelerant]

Being bad and balance are two different things. Even the 'good' player against a 50 is at a disadvantage, that's the point. Doesn't matter what your 'skill' is, as a lowbie you are at a disadvantage. Doesn't matter how 'good' you are.

 

You should be, what would be the point in leveling up and gearing your character if you can just enter the warzone at level 10 and own a level 50? The more of your posts I read the more I feel like you would be more at home in an FPS game where everyone just gets issued standard gear and duke it out.

 

Being at a disadvantage because someone is higher level/has better gear than you is balance, if you weren't at a disadvantage it would be unbalanced, but I guess you wouldn't complain then since it would be unbalanced in your favor.

In SW:TOR unlike every other MMORPG on the market you actually have somewhat of a fighting chance if you're good and use your abilities well. This means things like not burning force leap when you can just run up to someone, which is kind of my litmus test for Sw/JK if they charge me off the bat when they could run to me I know I'll crush them.

[G-Seven]

Yes, and even when we queue with multiple clan groups we rarely get on the same team (has happened once). Normally we go vs eachother, which is cool.. but we wana play together vs other guilds.

 

But, they have said they'll implement this. Patience is a virtue I hear, but I disagree so I'm going to ask for a nerf on patience from the devs as I want everything now.

 

I have no problems with full premade vs. full premade. I cannot support putting eight (8) coordinated players using VoIP against 8 random players. Typically, there is no competition in that match-up.

[tharbison]

You should be, what would be the point in leveling up and gearing your character if you can just enter the warzone at level 10 and own a level 50? The more of your posts I read the more I feel like you would be more at home in an FPS game where everyone just gets issued standard gear and duke it out.

 

Being at a disadvantage because someone is higher level/has better gear than you is balance, if you weren't at a disadvantage it would be unbalanced, but I guess you wouldn't complain then since it would be unbalanced in your favor.

In SW:TOR unlike every other MMORPG on the market you actually have somewhat of a fighting chance if you're good and use your abilities well. This means things like not burning force leap when you can just run up to someone, which is kind of my litmus test for Sw/JK if they charge me off the bat when they could run to me I know I'll crush them.

 

I'm glad you agree with me! There is an unquestionable dis-advantage to the bolster approach.

 

Disadvantage is NOT balance. It's like taking a knife to a gun fight.

Edited December 21, 2011 by tharbison

[Helig]

No, if you are bad you should be mercilessly dominated so that you know you're bad and need to improve. If bad players do not realize how bad they are they end up posting nerf threads about things that are perfectly fine.

 

"There are times, in which defeat only teaches you that you have been beaten". This is one such example.

 

While I actually support Bolstering and facing off players of multiple weight categories, you can't really accuse people of being "bad" if they have a premade of, say, 20s, getting steamrolled by a less-organized premade of 40s+. It's more math than strategy, tactics or skill. It's definitely possible to win, but only if you are two-three heads above those high-levels in tactics, teamplay and general Warzone coordination.

[Thaonnor]

I'm glad you agree with me! There is an unquestionable dis-advantage to the bolster approach.

 

Disadvantage is NOT balance. It's like taking a knife to a gun fight.

 

Your right... so they should just hand out the best gun and top level to everyone who walks in the door no matter how long the level 50s have put into their characters?

 

You are simply making your argument less and less viable with every post, just walk away an L. You are basically asking for this to be FPS style, and it is not, it is an MMORPG. If you do not understand how those work, leave and don't play them.

 

Best of all, I know Bioware understands that you and the other people complaining about this are idiots and will not change it. So it is a win win for me and the rest of the players who enjoy this system.

[Thaonnor]

"There are times, in which defeat only teaches you that you have been beaten". This is one such example.

 

While I actually support Bolstering and facing off players of multiple weight categories, you can't really accuse people of being "bad" if they have a premade of, say, 20s, getting steamrolled by a less-organized premade of 40s+. It's more math than strategy, tactics or skill. It's definitely possible to win, but only if you are two-three heads above those high-levels in tactics, teamplay and general Warzone coordination.

 

This is not one such example. What defeat does in a warzone is tell you "HEY! ****IN LEVEL!" but somehow people read that as "HEY! GO GET ON THE FORUMS AND COMPLAIN!" Play the game, level up and you wouldn't be having this issue. Instead you all waste time complaining on the forums about a system Bioware has designed and likes and does not intend to change no matter how much the vocal minority cries and whines.

[Helig]

This is not one such example. What defeat does in a warzone is tell you "HEY! ****IN LEVEL!" but somehow people read that as "HEY! GO GET ON THE FORUMS AND COMPLAIN!" Play the game, level up and you wouldn't be having this issue. Instead you all waste time complaining on the forums about a system Bioware has designed and likes and does not intend to change no matter how much the vocal minority cries and whines.

 

Actually, it's partly true, since warzones are s decent source of XP. At level 33, with a ton of medals and winning the vote for additional awards, I got around 20k exp once :3

[Scelerant]

I'm glad you agree with me! There is an unquestionable dis-advantage to the bolster approach.

 

Disadvantage is NOT balance. It's like taking a knife to a gun fight.

 

Its not balanced in the sense that the two are equal, its balanced so that the lowbie has a fighting chance, but the higher level player still gets rewarded for leveling. If they made it so that a level 10 with bolster == a level 50 player, then why bother leveling to level 50?

 

You being at a disadvantage at a low level vs a higher player is game balance as it is intended to be. You have a bigger chance of Jessica Alba, Scarlett Johansen and Blake Lively coming to your house and demanding sexual favors from you than you have of your argument being taken seriously by anyone.

[tharbison]

Your right... so they should just hand out the best gun and top level to everyone who walks in the door no matter how long the level 50s have put into their characters?

 

You are simply making your argument less and less viable with every post, just walk away an L. You are basically asking for this to be FPS style, and it is not, it is an MMORPG. If you do not understand how those work, leave and don't play them.

 

Best of all, I know Bioware understands that you and the other people complaining about this are idiots and will not change it. So it is a win win for me and the rest of the players who enjoy this system.

 

Hey don't take it personal! We're talking about a game. Let's agree to disagree. I'm glad you're tight with the Bioware peeps and know everything will work out the way you want it to. Have fun! Game on!