Switching Roles

[Lostpenguins]

Yes I could find every detail and transfer it over from one side to the next. But my post wasnt about putting PvP'rs in the shoes of a PvE'r. Quite the opposite actually. Its not that they are against my arguement, actually most posts support my arguement even if they dont know why, for example

 

A popular complaint is the lock out timer. First I think its stupid. Not the argument, the actual lock out. I support you in your cause to have it removed. However you have alternatives to do during the week. There are several ops, plus FP, world quests, dailies, space missions, heroics, reputation, the list goes on and on. Also you can simply craft your gear, or atleast high level gear until 2.0, and that I'm sure will be changed down the road again.

 

I'm not saying PvE'rs dont have hardship, because they do. But put yourselves in our shoes and see if you dont empathize with our struggles.

 

Another example

 

A popular complaint is PvE has repair costs. The other side of that stick is you receive enormous amounts of credits for which we dont in PvP. I mostly PvP and have never reached 1mil. There are PvE'rs sporting 20+ mil, Having repair costs are because you make too much as is. Additionally you can fairly easily go through an entire FP and not die once. Good luck doing that in PvP. Not that it wont happen, but chances are dying in PvP is more likely and more frequent than PvE.

I don't complain that PvP'ers don't have repair costs. The fact that you die so often in a WZ... if there were repair costs... yikes! I also am okay with PvP having no lockout timers and PvE having lockout timers. The PvP rate of gear is fine, and same with PvE. Adding lockout timers to PvP or removing them from PvE... meh... I dont' like it.

 

Also, as said in my earlier post, I would love if they added more stuff to increase PvP with more WZ's, with Arenas, with better open world PvP (I miss roaming Felwood in Vanilla WoW). A simple such thing is to add a Kill X Players of the Opposite Faction Quest while doing some other dailies... and all the dailies are in a tight area. That really encourages open world PvP.

 

Also stated was abilities having two different coefficients: one for PvE and one for PvP.

 

Lastly, a while ago I made a post that this is the way it works: Both PvE and PvP have the exact same stats on equal gear. However, PvP has Expertise which increases damage/healing done while reducing damage taken doing PvP. PvE should have the exact same stat called Mastery that does the exact same thing but only to Mobs in operations and FP's. In all other places, Mobs are balanced w/out the use of Mastery and outside of WZ's Expertise doesn't function. In that way, in the questing world, PvE'ers don't have the advantage in killing world mobs and PvP'ers don't advantage in open-world ganking.

[Lostpenguins]

Also a valor skill tree allows for developing pvp without affecting pve. For an example, a skill that reduces dmg in warzones or increases dmg against player or reduces duration of player CC.

My only problem is that they tried this in Rift. A tree dedicated to PvP, but skills were so bad that no one used them because the PvE trees were way too good.

[Levity]

Great post, good questions

 

A few things I would do:

 

Valor Skill Tree

 

OW PVP (now this one can have alot done with it but Ill keep it breif)

Rewards xp, valor, credits, comms

 

OW PvP Objectives, strongholds, quests...

 

match making system

 

Arena's

 

Battlegrounds

 

Notice I havent said or suggested anything to do with gear? Mostly because I dont really care if gear is the carrot, I'd prefer other carrots for my enjoyment like having valor that is meaningful.

 

I suggested awhile back something like this:

 

There's a PvE event like the sack of the Jedi temple or some such where the Empire attacks and the Republic defends. The republic defends by running around completing objectives, while the Empire does similar. Whoever completes the objectives first wins the battle and has the option to invade the others fleet, or homeworld whichever.

 

I put down the specifics, safe zones, specific instances for this to occur once a month. Etc.

 

The jist is, once you invade you have to take out a commander somewhere on fleet. Once you do this being in the room the commander was in nets you 10 national points per minute, these national points add up together within a guild so you can have a guild wide pvp ranking system by having national points. So the whole invasion of the fleet will last an hour, and the opposing faction that was invaded has the ability to push the other faction out ( that is where safe zones come in so the opposing faction can group up and defend) and if they are successful they get the option to invade the other factions vessel that invaded their Fleet and complete the same objective of killing their commander and getting national points. Once every three months the guild with the highest Nationality has a banner of them placed around fleet, national pts reset every three months.

 

This would give a sense of war to the game that is really lacking. It doesn't feel like you are at war, there is no feeling of nationality, it's just meh. Games where you invade the other faction is just a lot of fun in general. Idk if you ever played one, but going into unknown territory with the chance to be over ran is thrilling.

[LanceCorporalDan]

You obviously misunderstand.. I'll just be the better post and stop this.

 

Good day.

Edited April 18, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

[Warshades]

My only problem is that they tried this in Rift. A tree dedicated to PvP, but skills were so bad that no one used them because the PvE trees were way too good.

 

You misunderstood, or maybe me

 

what I meant was a second skill tree, linked to your valor, where the higher your valor, the more points you could spend in the tree. The focus being pvp but you could throw some low level abilities that could impact pve like 3 pt ability that increased power regen by 1% per pt. Something that could encourage, but not force, PvE'rs to PvE, but still giving PvP'rs something to work toward, like highest ability being 20 second imunity to Player CC (5 min cool down)

 

You still get your normal skill tree.

[Levity]

You misunderstood, or maybe me

 

what I meant was a second skill tree, linked to your valor, where the higher your valor, the more points you could spend in the tree. The focus being pvp but you could throw some low level abilities that could impact pve like 3 pt ability that increased power regen by 1% per pt. Something that could encourage, but not force, PvE'rs to PvE, but still giving PvP'rs something to work toward, like highest ability being 20 second imunity to Player CC (5 min cool down)

 

You still get your normal skill tree.

 

I would say this:

 

Have a debuff to every PvE skill in the skill tree when queued for WZs. Every MMO does this for specific skills already. Then just have a straight PvP skill tree which would ultimately be better since the nerf to the PvE tree would make it suicidal to use in a WZ.

[Warshades]

I dont like the idea of separating players. We all play the same game. One of the reasons were in this mess is because people like the developers want to pigeon hole players into one grind or the other, instead of combining them and then enhancing them to cater to different play styles. The average player will do one over the other not because they dont like the other, but because they lack the time to grind both.

[Lostpenguins]

You misunderstood, or maybe me

 

what I meant was a second skill tree, linked to your valor, where the higher your valor, the more points you could spend in the tree. The focus being pvp but you could throw some low level abilities that could impact pve like 3 pt ability that increased power regen by 1% per pt. Something that could encourage, but not force, PvE'rs to PvE, but still giving PvP'rs something to work toward, like highest ability being 20 second imunity to Player CC (5 min cool down)

 

You still get your normal skill tree.

Ah, a free tree basically. Gotcha.

[Warshades]

Yes, for example in DAOC you received realm skill points fofr each realm level or rank you earned. You then spent those points to increase the strength of your char. This was the carrot for PvP. Not gear. And it followed a bell curve, in which the first 50 ranks were easy to achieve with minimal effort, while the next 50 took time and effort, and the last 30 took total determination and years to achieve.

[KryloKillian]

On the 30% thing:

 

Lots of max level primarily PvE players will queue warzones for something to do/credits/secondary gear progression when their guild isn't doing raids or hardmodes or they'll queue up for both. I did that a lot before my hiatus that lasted until just before the expansion.

 

I may or may not start doing it again. I'm still primarily a PvE player on this game, mostly because I don't like warzones and open world PvP here is meh/pointless.

 

On other games I PvP much more often because the game is set up to accommodate it better. Like in Rift, I enjoyed the open world aspects of destroying other people's bases, but even there I never ended up in decent PvP gear because warzones bleeeeh, and open world gave minimal/no rewards.

 

That said, I'd love to see more PvP content and maybe some expansions toward decent open world. However, your opening post is only going to cause defensiveness from PvE primary players, as will you throwing out numbers that don't adequately relate to the real world/are twisted to your own ends.

 

That said, with the way planets are split, with factions literally unable to get to some of them to mess around or raid opposing cities for any purpose (PvP city raids were always some of my favorite 'events' on various more open world games), I doubt that the game will ever got to the point where I'll enjoy PvP here. It just doesn't have the underlying structure, and, as such, I just don't look for it to be all that great here.

 

The game's focus has always been story. The story has always been centered around the PvE quest lines. The various things they did to make these work (instanced story zones that 'protect' most/all important NPCs, the inability to get to important opposite faction planets, etc.) make it much more difficult to create a compelling PvP experience beyond warzones, which, by their nature as warzones, are going to be repetitive and about as rote as you can make PvP, even if they had twice as many (though having twice as many, or more, would certainly help it take a bit longer to FEEL repetitive).

 

Or, TL;DR: You're on the wrong game if you want compelling, interesting, open world PvP.

Edited April 18, 2013 by KryloKillian

[skullkandy]

As a whole, pvp in this game is treated as nothing more than a side game by the developers

 

 

pvp is a side game in swtor. welcome aboard. I know I want pvp mmos too, i find pvp far more entertaining. But this game has never been advertised and will never be anything but a pve game. They've made it very clear that's what it is and pvp is just there for a distraction.