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PVE bolster!


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actually it's absolutely the same. in pve you can not do ops if you are 1-49 lvl, you can not do new 55 lvl ops if your lvl is lower then that, isn't it? bolster could be applied to all of these fps/ops, just it should work in different manner for each brackets. like in pvp.

 

but in pvp I can't choose anything.

 

I can't choose a bracket based on the skill and gear I think I have, if that was so a bolster wouldn't be needed in the endgame pvp

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but in pvp I can't choose anything.

 

I can't choose a bracket based on the skill and gear I think I have, if that was so a bolster wouldn't be needed in the endgame pvp

 

the same in pve, you can not choose a bracket according skill and gear you have. you can not do ops if your level is below 50, and it no matter what gear and skill you have.

 

to be clear: now anyone could join wz and have fun. anyone would competitive at least based on gear. I want the same feature in pve. I don't want spend months to grind pve gear, I want it for free and right now. just to join any random fps/ops and get fun. it will not break the game. any of you who like grind gear could continue to do it (play with mods/armorings, etc).

Edited by yauhen_pt
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the same in pve, you can not choose a bracket according skill and gear you have. you can not do ops if your level is below 50, and it no matter what gear and skill you have.

 

to be clear: now anyone could join wz and have fun. anyone would competitive at least based on gear. I want the same feature in pve. I don't want spend months to grind pve gear, I want it for free and right now. just to join any random fps/ops and get fun. it will not break the game. any of you who like grind gear could continue to do it (play with mods/armorings, etc).

 

It's called "Story Mode". You can, for the most part, go into Story Mode ops with any level 55 gear and pull your own weight. The fact that several guilds have cleared the Hard Mode content in level 50 gear should be ample evidence that this is viable.

 

This is exactly the point that everyone is trying to make though: there is no "story mode" for warzones. When I queue into a warzone, I can't ask for entry level PvP gearing. I might get matched with beginners in PvE gear, or I might get matched against a full premade in optimized Conqueror gear. I don't mind the fact that I'm being matched against players that are more skilled and more experienced (that's what PvP is all about, after all), but I don't want to simply get gear stomped because I haven't spent as much time floor tanking as they have. There are really two ways to solve this: improve the matchmaking system to ensure gear levels are even (and dramatically increase the queuing population to support this), or marginalize gear so that the disparity never happens. Since the first solution requires fixing a problem that is beyond Bioware's control (queuing population) and also fixing a problem that is technically very challenging (what does gear score mean in the presence of the mod system?), Bioware decided to go with the second solution. Bolster is a totally valid answer to the problem, it just needs to be tuned appropriately (as it currently is not).

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This is exactly the point that everyone is trying to make though: there is no "story mode" for warzones. When I queue into a warzone, I can't ask for entry level PvP gearing. I might get matched with beginners in PvE gear, or I might get matched against a full premade in optimized Conqueror gear. I don't mind the fact that I'm being matched against players that are more skilled and more experienced (that's what PvP is all about, after all), but I don't want to simply get gear stomped because I haven't spent as much time floor tanking as they have.

 

as I understand your idea is that you want free and right now valuable gear in pvp, while the green/blue pve geared 50/55 lvl guys should not be allowed to do hm/nim ops? why?

 

There are really two ways to solve this: improve the matchmaking system to ensure gear levels are even (and dramatically increase the queuing population to support this), or marginalize gear so that the disparity never happens. Since the first solution requires fixing a problem that is beyond Bioware's control (queuing population) and also fixing a problem that is technically very challenging (what does gear score mean in the presence of the mod system?), Bioware decided to go with the second solution. Bolster is a totally valid answer to the problem, it just needs to be tuned appropriately (as it currently is not).

 

tell me plz how long it takes to find a group for fp/ops via gf (is it even possible to que gf for hm/nim)? any ideas how to fix it? hint: pve bolster will solve this problem! people will pop for any fp/ops sm/hm/nim it would be huge number of groups riding non stop, a lot of fun for everybody... wait.. you don't like it.. why?

 

oh.. I know.. the answer is... "story mode". "story mode" does not allow green/blue geared 50/55 lvl guys clear ops nim.

Edited by yauhen_pt
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as I understand your idea is that you want free and right now valuable gear in pvp, while the green/blue pve geared 50/55 lvl guys should not be allowed to do hm/nim ops? why?

 

My idea is not that I want all gear to be free and immediately available. What I want is PvP to be accessible. It is currently not. I PvP *extensively* sub-50, but I stopped queuing entirely when I hit level 50 pre-2.0. Why? Gear smashing. I understand you're annoyed at the devaluation of gear progression in PvP. Give me a better solution to make *any* level 50 PvP accessible! PvE provides this in the form of story mode.

 

tell me plz how long it takes to find a group for fp/ops via gf (is it even possible to que gf for hm/nim)? any ideas how to fix it? hint: pve bolster will solve this problem! people will pop for any fp/ops sm/hm/nim it would be huge number of groups riding non stop, a lot of fun for everybody... wait.. you don't like it.. why?

 

PvE bolster would do nothing to make group finder queues pop faster. People don't queue for random story mode ops because they don't want to be matched with morons. It really has nothing to do with gear. As for HM/Nightmare Mode, is it possible to solo queue for a ranked match?

 

I like encouraging more raiding, but adding bolster to PvE doesn't accomplish that goal. You're really missing the point that I'm trying to make: without bolster, level 50 PvP is entirely inaccessible to anyone unwilling to spend the next several weeks tanking the floor, and yet level 50 PvE remains directly accessible and easy to get into. Fix that problem without introducing bolster to PvP.

 

oh.. I know.. the answer is... "story mode". "story mode" does not allow green/blue geared 50/55 lvl guys clear ops nim.

 

I've already said that I don't like the fact that bolster applies in ranked warzones.

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My idea is not that I want all gear to be free and immediately available. What I want is PvP to be accessible. It is currently not. I PvP *extensively* sub-50, but I stopped queuing entirely when I hit level 50 pre-2.0. Why? Gear smashing. I understand you're annoyed at the devaluation of gear progression in PvP. Give me a better solution to make *any* level 50 PvP accessible! PvE provides this in the form of story mode.

 

I am not annoyed, I am happy! its me who asking here the same for pve! why are you so annoyed with devaluation of gear progression in pve? its not even a devaluation, you could do it, grind new nice gear.

when did u do ops nim in green/blue gear? its sounds u doing it everyday.

 

PvE bolster would do nothing to make group finder queues pop faster. People don't queue for random story mode ops because they don't want to be matched with morons. It really has nothing to do with gear.

 

pvp bolster solved pvp problem for u, u can now q pvp, why do u think pve bolster will not solve this problem for pve?

 

I like encouraging more raiding, but adding bolster to PvE doesn't accomplish that goal.

 

it will solve the problem. more raids - less newbies! simple equation.

 

You're really missing the point that I'm trying to make: without bolster, level 50 PvP is entirely inaccessible to anyone unwilling to spend the next several weeks tanking the floor, and yet level 50 PvE remains directly accessible and easy to get into. Fix that problem without introducing bolster to PvP. I've already said that I don't like the fact that bolster applies in ranked warzones.

 

I think pvp problem is solved (soon bolster wwill b ok.. I believe), we can solve pve problem as well. that's all, why do u against it.. have no idea.

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pvp bolster solved pvp problem for u, u can now q pvp, why do u think pve bolster will not solve this problem for pve?

 

Because the analogous problem (incoming gear disparity) doesn't exist in PvE. When you start doing PvP, you're matched against people who dramatically out-gear you. When you start doing PvE, you're matched against opponents designed for your gear level (entry level). In other words, PvE has always been balanced in this respect, while PvP has not. Adding bolster to PvE is addressing a problem that doesn't exist while simultaneously carrying with it the problems it has in PvP to an exacerbated extent. PvE is a gear game, and PvP is a skill game. If you take the gear out of PvE, there is absolutely nothing left.

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Because the analogous problem (incoming gear disparity) doesn't exist in PvE. When you start doing PvP, you're matched against people who dramatically out-gear you. When you start doing PvE, you're matched against opponents designed for your gear level (entry level). In other words, PvE has always been balanced in this respect, while PvP has not. Adding bolster to PvE is addressing a problem that doesn't exist while simultaneously carrying with it the problems it has in PvP to an exacerbated extent. PvE is a gear game, and PvP is a skill game. If you take the gear out of PvE, there is absolutely nothing left.

 

Finally, a pve'r that says something i agree with ..... "PVE requires no skill."

 

/cheers

Edited by Scotland
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Finally, a pve'r that says something i agree with ..... "PVE requires no skill."

 

/cheers

 

Not what I said (and not true), but if you want to take it that way, fine. Encouraging animosity and elitism between the PvP and PvE communities serves no purpose other than to pad your ego. I could point to any number of elements of PvP that are trivial compared to what we have to deal with in PvE (when was the last time you had a single player hit you for 28k in a single shot? or walk into a warzone with 7 million HP? or force you to fight it continually for 6+ minutes?), but it doesn't matter. I don't think either arena requires less skill per se, my point is that PvP is all about pitting player skill in a direct contest, while PvE is *much* more of a statistical game (and therefore places a higher emphasis on statistical weighting via gear score).

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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Bolster of ANY kind is not MMORPG material. End of story!

 

Most of those people asking for pve bolster, ain't really want it, they just wanna make PvE'ers see and understand how terrible bolster is for end-game content.

 

None would like to be boosted no matter the gear, to the top ops hard mode levels. That is exactly the same with the PvP bolster atm. Everyone is being boosted to pretty much the same level, no matter the gear, with PvP'ers unable to aquire better gear, because it wont make any difference at all.

 

Stop arguing about PvE bolster, and support PvP'ers, about removing bolster from lvl 55 PvP!

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to PVE Bolster!

 

PvP bolster is so you have a fighting chance against other players. PVE bolster would just make things stupid. The gear is your reward, to make you stronger. Sure, give us a free set of rakata (58) mods, and we're set! I spent my operative's planet comms on a ton of them, and now he's set to go for end game. But what would PVE bolster do? Make people get lazy in their flashpoints and operations.

 

PS- take my early quote, and use it as a sig if you support me!

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to PVE Bolster!

 

PvP bolster is so you have a fighting chance against other players. PVE bolster would just make things stupid. The gear is your reward, to make you stronger. Sure, give us a free set of rakata (58) mods, and we're set! I spent my operative's planet comms on a ton of them, and now he's set to go for end game. But what would PVE bolster do? Make people get lazy in their flashpoints and operations.

 

PS- take my early quote, and use it as a sig if you support me!

The point of this thread is to show how stupid PvP bolster is.

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To be honest, I would like to see PVE bolster for H4 Quests and Flashpoints. Not to make it easier for everybody, but to make it harder. Pre 2.0, I was doing some of the Flashpoints with my guild in Elite PVP gear and we run throug the content (nearly) without any Challenges. I always wonder where the fun is for PVE players to redo Flashpoints for the weeklys again and again if they are OP anyway.

So my suggestion, make all Flashpoints 60 and bolster everyone to 60. The gear you gain there should be needed for the not bolstered Operations.

In PVP, I like the bolster system, it prevents - hopefully - people from leaving warzones because of the missing gear of the teammates (this happened very frequently pre 2.0). On the other hand, BW should not bolster Ranked WZ (like my suggestion not to bolster Operations).

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Im pretty sure pvp players are making the comparison to show bw/ea how stupid bolster is right now.

 

As a pve player who pvps as well, I cant say that I blame them.

 

When they show up to a raid in partisan and I show up in Black market, they get no break. If the guild isnt willing to drag them through, they likely arent getting picked and are being told "get better gear".

 

Yet now when I show up to pvp with my pve gear, Im being given a free bonus that I did not earn. I paid my dues in pvp previously, I got my gear. Now its all useless. They removed the expertise. Imagine if they had removed the stats from dreadguard, rakata pieces and said "At 55 everyone is even again." PVE players who spent time augmenting, spent time getting top end gear, would go berserk, and rightfully so.

 

I think most pvp players understand that an expansion results in their gear eventually becoming obsolete. I just cant recall any expansion where gear that was "elite" the day before became "completely worthless" the next.

 

So I hope that BW/EA goes back and rethinks this.

 

Thanks, finally a pve'ers who freaking understand the frustration of pvp players who got a huge slap in the face like crazy by BW/EA. Just can't understand WHY they did not just give a new pvp set when reaching lvl 55 like recruit but closing the gap of the old recruit vs WH/EWH. And why not give a pve set while were at it just to help a little at lvl 50/51 to help in makeb?

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I think the point is because in PvP, in max end-game gear you get somewhere around 60% bonus damage to someone with 0 expertise (or something like that), whereas if you're in PvE gear you have 0, and with no way to get PvP gear without previously PvPing, and having the comms, it's a little lame.

 

Personally, I would like to see them do PvP brackets of Expertise <500, 500-1000, 1000-1500, and 1500+, or at least do SOMETHING to sort it out, because to come into a PvP match with no PvP gear, without a bolster, you just get wrecked - and while I'm not saying that PvE-ers should get, what, a 1500-point bolster, I think that sorting them out to the best of their ability until partisan or end-game PvP gear is assembled, would make for better PvP matches.

 

Just from my experience I have one piece of Partisan, the lightsaber, everything else is PvE gear, until 2.0 I actively refused to PvP, but I figured "Hell, why not, I'll give it a try" and had a ton of fun with it... just wondering as I type this - is there a bolster in ranked PvP? I also think people who have PvPed have one thing in the PvP section over PvE-ers... they have experience (which counts for more than expertise), they know how to attack someone, when to fight and when not to fight, and all the other little tricks that people who focus on PvE don't know.

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I think the point is because in PvP, in max end-game gear you get somewhere around 60% bonus damage to someone with 0 expertise (or something like that), whereas if you're in PvE gear you have 0, and with no way to get PvP gear without previously PvPing, and having the comms, it's a little lame.

 

You got your recruit gear free, you know. It had expertise.

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Why would I run around in 55 PvP in 50 gear? should I just go buy the level 40 orange pvp gear on DK to have PvP gear?

 

I took it that you talked about pre-2.0, since the bolster more or less just replaced the recruit gear. They could have easily decided to just make a new "recruit gear" they would give free to everyone instead of bolster. Justifying a solution by pointing out the problem isn't too effective when there are other alternative solutions.

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1. Both PvP and PvE gear got reset, so you need to forget the *** off for months. We all start at 0.

2. The intention of bolster is to give us some fighting chance against people who PvPed their *** off for months. That we are currently equal or better is just a bug that will be fixed. There is absoluty no reason for PvE bolster

 

funny thing, equalizing your chances as a pveler to fight a pvpler is ok, but bring them to your lvl in pve is not... quite biased attitude...:rolleyes:

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my question is to the pvers is this: If you have to Gear Grind end game content to move up and progress, why in the world would it be so hard for you dorks to understand that its the same in PVP? I mean really if I spend all my levels PVPing then I am gonna know my character inside out, and how to fight every other character class as well. so if I see you in open world and Gank/jump you and murder you, its not cause of my gear its cause you need to L2P. Same as if I join your guild run and ask how do I fight this mob...L2P...right? If you are getting slammed in PVP its cause you don't know how to play your character, and that smashing teaches you how to get smashed the next time. L2P and stop qqing about gear
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funny thing, equalizing your chances as a pveler to fight a pvpler is ok, but bring them to your lvl in pve is not... quite biased attitude...:rolleyes:

 

Not really. At PVP you play versus other players (orly D: ). Guy without any PVP gear yet would be just melted by full geared people. At PVE on the other hand you can group up with players on the same level of gear which you actually have and do the operation designed for that level. If there was a queue for PVP based on your gear there would be no need for bolster, simple.

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I took it that you talked about pre-2.0, since the bolster more or less just replaced the recruit gear. They could have easily decided to just make a new "recruit gear" they would give free to everyone instead of bolster. Justifying a solution by pointing out the problem isn't too effective when there are other alternative solutions.

 

Personally I think that the partisan stuff should be free, and have another tier between.

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my question is to the pvers is this: If you have to Gear Grind end game content to move up and progress, why in the world would it be so hard for you dorks to understand that its the same in PVP? I mean really if I spend all my levels PVPing then I am gonna know my character inside out, and how to fight every other character class as well. so if I see you in open world and Gank/jump you and murder you, its not cause of my gear its cause you need to L2P. Same as if I join your guild run and ask how do I fight this mob...L2P...right? If you are getting slammed in PVP its cause you don't know how to play your character, and that smashing teaches you how to get smashed the next time. L2P and stop qqing about gear

 

Gear doesn't matter in pvp because I'm better than you so I'd win even if we had the same gear, so stop complaining about my gear advantage because I'm better than you, I promise.

 

...that's kind of a dumb argument.

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