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PVE bolster!


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Excellent idea!

 

I want to have the best PVE stats without lifting a finger, make it happen EAWare.

 

I agree! I should be able to see all of this games content just like everyone else and not have to worry about grinding gear or depending on 3/7/15 other people! What is BW thinking?!

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That's funny, cause that is what PvP is supposed to be as well.

 

The only difference is that in PvP, the higher-level content is mixed in with the lower-level content. So if you need better gear to do the higher-level content, then you can never do *any* content. (hence, PvP's current well-deserved reputation of being very newcomer unfriendly)

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The only difference is that in PvP, the higher-level content is mixed in with the lower-level content. So if you need better gear to do the higher-level content, then you can never do *any* content. (hence, PvP's current well-deserved reputation of being very newcomer unfriendly)

 

I also used to see people in pretty good gear doing sm KP and EV for the comms. And there's always ranked wzs for "higher level content".

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The only difference is that in PvP, the higher-level content is mixed in with the lower-level content. So if you need better gear to do the higher-level content, then you can never do *any* content. (hence, PvP's current well-deserved reputation of being very newcomer unfriendly)

 

This simply isnt true. An exceptional player with free blue pvp gear was still better than a bad player in fully optimized ewh.

 

Lets not even discuss a game like Huttball where strategy/skill leads to 6-0 games because one side just wants to death match. No matter what stats you have, you wont win hutball unless you actually understand the game. Similar situation at hypergate where people death match at mid, not understanding the rules.

 

Id say pvp is more newcomer friendly than pve. If you just que up randomly for a pug OPS as a fresh 50 not knowing the boss fights, how well do you think you would do?

 

At least in pvp you get a reward pretty much no matter how bad you were. No matter how many times you were killed, 1 shotted, etc, you get some sort of tangible reward towards getting the better gear.

Edited by Soxbadger
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This simply isnt true. An exceptional player with free blue pvp gear was still better than a bad player in fully optimized ewh.

 

I've done ranked warzones on various characters. I get at least 50% of my XP while leveling through PvP, and I used to queue at 50 with some very serious PvPers. I'm pretty confident in my skill and my knowledge of the PvP metagame. If I queue into a warzone in Recruit gear, I will be MAULED by a player in optimized EWH, even when that same player is getting face planted with ease by some of my max geared guildies. The gear disparity is absolutely a problem, both mathematically (the numbers are very clear here) and practically.

 

In any case, clearly gear is a significant issue, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about bolster. All that bolster does (if it weren't buggy as sin) is level the playing field w.r.t. gear. Either you agree that the playing field should be level w.r.t. gear (which is what you're contending) and bolster is fine, or you really want there to be a significant gear disparity (which you deny ever existed). This seems like a fairly obvious contradiction.

 

Lets not even discuss a game like Huttball where strategy/skill leads to 6-0 games because one side just wants to death match. No matter what stats you have, you wont win hutball unless you actually understand the game. Similar situation at hypergate where people death match at mid, not understanding the rules.

 

Oh, I absolutely used to love Huttball as an under-geared player queuing with coordinated guildmates, since it was really the only warzone where I felt like I made a real contribution. I couldn't do everything (e.g. the ball carrier role was completely out of the question, even as a kinetic shadow), but I could at least fill a slot and not feel like I was dragging down the team. I had to play pretty carefully though, because almost anyone on the field was able to mow me down without a second thought.

 

Id say pvp is more newcomer friendly than pve. If you just que up randomly for a pug OPS as a fresh 50 not knowing the boss fights, how well do you think you would do?

 

Depends on your community. On my server, I used to do exactly this with a great deal of success. The more important point is that PvE doesn't stack the cards against you as a newcomer. There is a smooth, balanced path from "newbie" to "elite pro". In PvP, if I queue into a warzone, I might be facing people at my own gear level, or people who are radically beyond me. That's not a smooth path.

 

At least in pvp you get a reward pretty much no matter how bad you were. No matter how many times you were killed, 1 shotted, etc, you get some sort of tangible reward towards getting the better gear.

 

Exactly the problem. Why is PvP gear even considered a tangible reward if you can earn it simply by /sitting at the off-node?

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Exactly the problem. Why is PvP gear even considered a tangible reward if you can earn it simply by /sitting at the off-node?

 

If you're sitting at the off node all game and never have to do anything, it really doesn't say much about your servers PVP, imo.

Edited by Scotland
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Exactly the problem. Why is PvP gear even considered a tangible reward if you can earn it simply by /sitting at the off-node?

 

You can also get the pve gear by letting other people with better gear drag you through content.

 

Imo it's just not fair that pve-people basically get 2 sets of gear for free. I'd prefer getting slaughtered for few weeks before getting good gear.

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Maybe you arent reading my posts. I am in a progression pve guild. I have top end pve gear. Bolster is making my gear better than someone in pvp gear. That is stupid. As someone who is getting an advantage, I am big enough to say, its unfair that I have an advantage in pvp that I did not earn in pvp. PvP gear (in pvp) should be > PvE gear. It is really simple.

 

The reason why it is a significant issue is because I dont want PVP players to quit. I have a lot of friends who exclusively pvp (I play on a pvp server), they dont really see the point in playing when I show up bolstered with better stats.

 

A lot of your complaints should be directed to the way BW set up wzs. They are completely unfair and the least of that reason is "gear". The biggest reason is pre-made v pugs. When we hare 8 people in mumble, we are likely going to coordinate better than 8 randoms from the street. Even if some of those randoms have great gear, we can coordinate and take care of them.

 

As for your last question, the same reason why someone in a pve raid may get gear even though the rest of the group did all the work.

 

I have yet to see 1 legitimate argument for why my pve gear should be better than pvp gear. Even if it was only 1% better than pve gear, at least you could argue that "better is better". But when the gear is worse, what can you argue?

 

Would you be okay if pvp gear was better than pve gear in pve?

 

Ill quietly wait for an answer.

Edited by Soxbadger
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Maybe you arent reading my posts. I am in a progression pve guild. I have top end pve gear. Bolster is making my gear better than someone in pvp gear. That is stupid. As someone who is getting an advantage, I am big enough to say, its unfair that I have an advantage in pvp that I did not earn in pvp. PvP gear > PvE gear. It is really simple.

 

They've said that this is a bug, which sounds about right to me. If Underworld gear were designed to be better than Conqueror, I would be leading the charge to burn down the game studio. This is due to be fixed though, along with the mod bolstering trick.

 

Ideally, I would like to see top-tier PvE gear provide an appreciable advantage in PvP over entry-level 55 gear (e.g. level 66 mods), but still worse than Partisan gear by a small margin. I don't want there to be a *dramatic* gear gap between Conqueror and entry level 55 gear, but there should certainly be an advantage.

 

A lot of your complaints should be directed to the way BW set up wzs. They are completely unfair and the least of that reason is "gear". The biggest reason is pre-made v pugs. When we hare 8 people in mumble, we are likely going to coordinate better than 8 randoms from the street. Even if some of those randoms have great gear, we can coordinate and take care of them.

 

I agree with this. I think a lot of the gear problems could have been resolved by a) having higher server pops (thus a larger queuing pool), and b) forcing some level of gear parity in the matchmaking system. Biasing the system to only match premades with premades would also be super-nice (though they claimed quite a while ago that this is already in place).

 

As for your last question, the same reason why someone in a pve raid may get gear even though the rest of the group did all the work.

 

Sure, but that's more analogous to someone queuing with a really good premade. I can *solo* queue into PvP, lose every match, get zero damage, protection or healing and still get a full set of Conqueror. While I think a good ops group could pull someone through to full Arkanian at this point, it's not really possible (with current gear levels) to twink someone to a full Underworld set.

 

I have yet to see 1 legitimate argument for why my pve gear should be better than pvp gear. Even if it was only 1% better than pve gear, at least you could argue that "better is better". But when the gear is worse, what can you argue?

 

It *shouldn't* be better in warzones. I also think it shouldn't be better in open world PvP, but that's a technically harder problem to solve. I do think that PvE gear needs to be better for PvE content, which is essentially *everything* except for warzones and open world encounters. If PvP gear were better (or even at parity), then the easiest path to PvE gear would be sitting in warzones and doing nothing, which is what people did prior to 1.2.

 

Would you be okay if pvp gear was better than pve gear?

 

No, but as mentioned, that's a bug.

 

I also want to reemphasize that I really don't like the fact that bolster is in play in ranked warzones. Gear should be a significant element of ranked warzones, because you're going up against the best of the best who have already ground and min-maxed their gear. The fact that I can queue into a ranked warzone with a group of PvE geared players is *fun* (and something that I will be doing), but I don't really like it from a game design perspective.

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At least for me the entire point is to raise awareness about a very significant bug. I know BW is saying they will fix it.

 

But imagine if for a week or 2 after a release, you were watching pvp players just decimate pve, and bw was saying "Oh well fix it sometime".

 

I cant really say what will happen when its "fixed". Maybe it will work great, but they have been really mistreating pvp players. I bought partisan gear based on what ewh I had, thinking that partisan + ewh would be a good place to start in pvp.

 

I woke up the next morning to find all of my ewh had 0 expertise. So instead of buying a chest piece to start, I bought random stuff like gloves and implants. BW/EA could have at least given a warning about removing expertise.

 

I guess I just feel bad for them.

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Its funny reading all the PVEers whining about this even though you guys can put 0 effort into PVP and still get the same stats if not better than what a guy who has PVPed his *** off for months

 

Raging carebears, better than sliced bread!

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The only difference is that in PvP, the higher-level content is mixed in with the lower-level content. So if you need better gear to do the higher-level content, then you can never do *any* content. (hence, PvP's current well-deserved reputation of being very newcomer unfriendly)

 

You're right, RWZs are a mixed bag of lowbies, PvE and F2P. Working as intended.

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PVE bolster was proposed in the pvp section of the forum. It is a good idea, isn't it?! just imagine: "green"/naked players automatically boosted to top pve gear within any FP HM/OPS! Discuss!

 

Bolstering is there to close the geargap as much as possible. PvP isnt the same as PvE.

In PvP you get your *** whooped if you are in recruit gear regardless of skill (meaning every attack received deals a lot of damage and you have low HP). In order to participate in PvP you need bolstering.

PvE is a whole other story. In PvE you could always clear TfB and EC SM in warhero gear. Yes, there may be jerks around whining about you in PvP-gear, but fact remains that alltough your dps is lower then the PvE-geared people its sufficient to beat enragetimers without being carried.

If you wanted to do the HM versions then you should have better gear. But hey I'll let you into a little secret. If a PvE'er goes into a ranked wz, what would happen do you think? Nuff said ;-)

NO!

 

Have you seen Cunning gear with Shield or Defense attached to it? Yeah, I don't want BioWare deciding what my best gear is for NIM or HM OPS.

A bit colourfull but yes, I dont want bioware to decide my gear too. I want to puzzle myself. Alltough bioware never has done anything crazy with bolstering shield for smugglers in PvP. Guess we can safely assume that they wont do it for PvE too if they used PvE-bolster.

 

Seriously, I love how the complaining goes, especially in the pvp forums. Without bolster, there are endless posts whining about people not putting on their free recruit gear. Bolster is introduced to put everyone at the recruit gear level (unless they have better pvp gear) and all of a sudden people hate that everyone is (essentially) wearing recruit gear? Give me a break.

I guess that people arent so much whining about the idea of the bolster, only the execution. Bolstering is intended to bolster till recruit. Fact is that bioware has made some errors and that they bolster us too much right now.

Can all others say "no we don't need inexperienced pve'ers in top level WZ's" ?

 

Think before you type.

 

Yes, they can. I, as PvE'er never joined ranked cause I wasnt geared for it. There you go, I thought before I typed. much obliged.

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Scotland View Post

Excellent idea!

 

I want to have the best PVE stats without lifting a finger, make it happen EAWare.

Seems fair tbh.

Nope, not fair. If so then PvE needs a bolster good enough to participate in ranked. As of know bolster might be good enough but thats only because its bugged.

 

This simply isnt true. An exceptional player with free blue pvp gear was still better than a bad player in fully optimized ewh.

An exceptional player with rakata was still better then a bad player in fully optimized blackhole/campaigngear

 

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post

Exactly the problem. Why is PvP gear even considered a tangible reward if you can earn it simply by /sitting at the off-node?

You can also get the pve gear by letting other people with better gear drag you through content.Imo it's just not fair that pve-people basically get 2 sets of gear for free. I'd prefer getting slaughtered for few weeks before getting good gear.

Where can I get that free gear? Please point me the way. In all honesty, atm there is no free gear. Pre 2.0 we had free tionese, but free recruit was given way before that.

And indeed, both in PvE and PvP you can be carried.

 

Maybe you arent reading my posts. I am in a progression pve guild. I have top end pve gear. Bolster is making my gear better than someone in pvp gear. That is stupid. As someone who is getting an advantage, I am big enough to say, its unfair that I have an advantage in pvp that I did not earn in pvp. PvP gear (in pvp) should be > PvE gear. It is really simple.

Bioware intend bolster that way. Its bugged atm.

 

Its funny reading all the PVEers whining about this even though you guys can put 0 effort into PVP and still get the same stats if not better than what a guy who has PVPed his *** off for months

1. Both PvP and PvE gear got reset, so you need to forget the *** off for months. We all start at 0.

2. The intention of bolster is to give us some fighting chance against people who PvPed their *** off for months. That we are currently equal or better is just a bug that will be fixed. There is absoluty no reason for PvE bolster

Imagine if they had removed the stats from dreadguard, rakata pieces and said "At 55 everyone is even again." PVE players who spent time augmenting, spent time getting top end gear, would go berserk, and rightfully so.

Ehm?? They did ;-) The new cap of 55 means a gear reset for PvE too. At 55 everyone is even again. I spend months of getting the topend gear and now that same gear drops in level 50 opses and hardmode fp's. This means that you can be full 63 within 2-3 days max. Imo, this is equel to a gearreset for me.

And guess what? I didnt see any PvE'er whine about it.

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Bolstering is there to close the geargap as much as possible. PvP isnt the same as PvE.

In PvP you get your *** whooped if you are in recruit gear regardless of skill (meaning every attack received deals a lot of damage and you have low HP). In order to participate in PvP you need bolstering.

PvE is a whole other story. In PvE you could always clear TfB and EC SM in warhero gear. Yes, there may be jerks around whining about you in PvP-gear, but fact remains that alltough your dps is lower then the PvE-geared people its sufficient to beat enragetimers without being carried.

If you wanted to do the HM versions then you should have better gear. But hey I'll let you into a little secret. If a PvE'er goes into a ranked wz, what would happen do you think? Nuff said ;-)

 

Lol, are you really that ignorant? The same could be said about PVP. If you want to do PVP, then you should have better gear, PVP Gear! Nuff Said?

 

We ain't stopping till we get our PVE bolster.

 

You've made your bed, now lie in it.

Edited by Scotland
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Lol, are you really that ignorant? The same could be said about PVP. If you want to do PVP, then you should have better gear, PVP Gear! Nuff Said?

 

We ain't stopping till we get our PVE bolster.

 

You've made your bed, now lie in it.

 

Not sure what line you refer at. Lets see what kind of gear you really need to beat the enragetimers in PvE and what you need in PvP to compete.

 

casual PvE (all opses exept SaV + TfB HM):

Pre 2.0

PvE-gear 50/50 columi/rakata

PvP-gear Battlemaster or Warhero

Post 2.0

SaV and TfB needs a bit more dps now

PvE-gear = mixture of 61/63 gear

PvP-gear = (Elite) Warhero got mutated into 61/63 PvE-stats

 

progression PvE (SaV + TfB HM):

Pre 2.0 EC + TfB HM

PvE-gear = about 61

PvP-gear = Tricky one, only if the PvP'er in (elite) warhero can make the transition to a PvE-rotation he/she may be able to perform and meet the reqs

 

Post 2.0 SaV + TfB HM

PvE-gear = about 63 gear (loads of guilds have done SaV HM in dreadguardgear so its possible)

PvP-gear = dont know yet how partisan and conqueror performs in PvE

 

Casual PvP (only normal warzones

PvE-gear = any will do cause you get boosted to about recruit-like level once they fix the bug

PvP-gear = any will do

 

Progress/hardcore PvP (ranked warzones

PvE-gear = big no no. No sane team will take you in

PvP-gear = not sure what you need but I guess you need about 50/50 partisan/conqueror minimum

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It isn't fair! I roll into ops in my recruit mk-1 set stacking presence augments as any good Sin/Shadow knows how to do and I get killed when trying to solo the boss, this is unacceptable. I should have at least underworld equivalent without having to do anything for it.

 

This change is long overdue... make it happen.

Edited by Yodawizard
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Can all others say "no we don't need inexperienced pve'ers in top level WZ's" ?

 

Think before you type.

 

There's a huge difference:

We can choose what ops/fp we want to do.

In pvp we can't choose the "top level wz's" or the "lower level wz's", there are brackets, which are made by level and not by choice (i think you mean pug, because if you bring a pve'er to a rated match it's your failure, and rwz's is what I consider "top level wz's")

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There's a huge difference:

We can choose what ops/fp we want to do.

In pvp we can't choose the "top level wz's" or the "lower level wz's", there are brackets, which are made by level and not by choice (i think you mean pug, because if you bring a pve'er to a rated match it's your failure, and rwz's is what I consider "top level wz's")

 

actually it's absolutely the same. in pve you can not do ops if you are 1-49 lvl, you can not do new 55 lvl ops if your lvl is lower then that, isn't it? bolster could be applied to all of these fps/ops, just it should work in different manner for each bracket. like in pvp.

Edited by yauhen_pt
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