Absolutely Unacceptable!

[Caeasar]

Ok, I know things change. I know games change. I know that things get added and taken away all the time. I know we have to reset and battle up to get the better gear. This is all part of the MMO cycle. It's what keeps us coming back. I get it.

 

What is completely unacceptable is the decision to remove all Expertise from War Hero and Elite War Hero gear. There was a TON of work that went into obtaining this gear. I can tell you that I did not put all this effort into gear that is rendered completely useless by the flip of a patch. BioWare, you are creating a huge mess with this. Just leave it well enough alone or tone it down. You continue to alienate your player base by making these totally stupid and retarded decisions that affect so many players across the board.

 

I don't play on a PVP server, but I can promise the outcry from those individuals will be felt. I don't need to be overwhelmingly powerful and crush my opponents in every war zone, but if I worked to get the gear, then I should have some small advantage over my opponent. Otherwise, what's the point of all the work? Yes it's fun, but it's fun because you receive something tangible for your effort.

 

I love the game, have been here since it launched and even pre-ordered the CE edition. I enjoy all of it, but stupid and retarded decisions affect all of us, including making it difficult to keep players when they get screwed.

 

Developers, please go back and re-think your 'ah-ha' moments. They are not so well thought out.

[Seireeni]

The expertise in lowbie pvp was nothing but a disadvantage. You were better off naked than in that gear. So you didn't have an advantage because you had expertise, others had an advantage over you because you had expertise, thanks to the new booster.

[JPryde]

So after countless threads of PvP-players complaining about people with noob pvp gear "messing up" their games, it is now absolutely unacceptable, that everyone is bolstered to the same expertise level automatically ?

 

Funny.... I always thought that PvP were about the serious competition between players, which is always 10 times more dynamic than any scripted boss fight could ever hope to be.

... Guess I was wrong then. Aparently it is meant to be "die for a month, till you got enough coms, so you can buy the top gear and then walk over new players like others did with you"

Edited April 16, 2013 by JPryde

[Alduinsm]

Read this post

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6144955&postcount=776

 

The net result is WH/EWH will have no Expertise and increased stats, but Partisan will still be better than it. The ranking you will see in effectiveness is WH < EWH < Partisan < Conqueror.

[saremun]

yeah sure and TON of people who play the pvp from time to time crushed by the hard core PVP players who have full WH or EWH, so nice and awesome move BW.

 

again thanks a lot for that move Devs/BW cause finally people like me who play PVP just for a change from dailies etc.. would have a chance against the other players.

[Caeasar]

I am sorry I did not clarify, I am speaking about level 55 PVP, not the lower tier. However, that being said..from 50-54 You SHOULD get your Exp gear and it SHOULD be relevant because you worked your *** off to get it. Fixing bolster (which they did in this patch was well) was expected.

[Mateops]

I personally like the changes.

 

I have all the EWH gear so I "worked" for it also... but ultimately the matches seem more fair. We can stand against a premade with a pug, not all the times but sometimes.

 

I prefer pvp to be about skills, teamwork and strategy.

[Hizoka]

Ok, I know things change. I know games change. I know that things get added and taken away all the time. I know we have to reset and battle up to get the better gear. This is all part of the MMO cycle. It's what keeps us coming back. I get it.

 

What is completely unacceptable is the decision to remove all Expertise from War Hero and Elite War Hero gear. There was a TON of work that went into obtaining this gear. I can tell you that I did not put all this effort into gear that is rendered completely useless by the flip of a patch. BioWare, you are creating a huge mess with this. Just leave it well enough alone or tone it down. You continue to alienate your player base by making these totally stupid and retarded decisions that affect so many players across the board.

 

I don't play on a PVP server, but I can promise the outcry from those individuals will be felt. I don't need to be overwhelmingly powerful and crush my opponents in every war zone, but if I worked to get the gear, then I should have some small advantage over my opponent. Otherwise, what's the point of all the work? Yes it's fun, but it's fun because you receive something tangible for your effort.

 

I love the game, have been here since it launched and even pre-ordered the CE edition. I enjoy all of it, but stupid and retarded decisions affect all of us, including making it difficult to keep players when they get screwed.

 

Developers, please go back and re-think your 'ah-ha' moments. They are not so well thought out.

 

this is why PvPers are lesser players then PvE player... PvE players had their gear made usless as well yet they don't cry, PvPers cry any time their crutches are taken from them. PvP right now is the cloested to PLAYER vs PLAYER that we will get. PvP should be able skill not about who has more gear. Good players understand this bad ones cry when they cannot rely on a crutch to do everything for them.

[Caeasar]

this is why PvPers are lesser players then PvE player... PvE players had their gear made usless as well yet they don't cry, PvPers cry any time their crutches are taken from them. PvP right now is the cloested to PLAYER vs PLAYER that we will get. PvP should be able skill not about who has more gear. Good players understand this bad ones cry when they cannot rely on a crutch to do everything for them.

 

Ok, using YOUR post here, I PVE as well. I have BH gear that is augmented to my stats for my class. Upon entering Makeb, I solo'ed everything I needed including a new x2 to level 55 in a day and a half. I am SMASHING for 8k on my marauder. I play BOTH sides of this fence Hizoka, so don't tell me that I am a 'lesser' player than others..chose your words better or ask questions before assuming.

[UltimateKrucible]

this is why PvPers are lesser players then PvE player... PvE players had their gear made usless as well yet they don't cry, PvPers cry any time their crutches are taken from them. PvP right now is the cloested to PLAYER vs PLAYER that we will get. PvP should be able skill not about who has more gear. Good players understand this bad ones cry when they cannot rely on a crutch to do everything for them.

 

Sorry, but this is dead wrong. Ok, PvP was a gear grind but it meant that those who achieved it had honed their craft and knew how to play.

 

Now we sometimes get good matches - but the bad ones are beyond horrible with players who don't know their class or understand the WZ charging around like headless chickens.

 

Worse, seeing as there's no point in collecting comms as we're all bolstered, there's no benefit to winning a WZ. So they're full of derps trading blows without a care about the objectives.

 

Commonly seen these days: "Cap 2 in civil war? I bet I could solo for 3." "Chase the ballcarrier or try to set up a pass? Why do that when there's a pit full of imps to fight?" "Guard a pylon? But the imps are in the middle!" "Guard an NC node? But the impsderderderp etc."

 

Rarely seen: "Inc grass 2"

[NSStember]

I prefer pvp to be about skills, teamwork and strategy.

 

---This! Well said Mateops

[zorroazul]

I personally like the changes.

 

I have all the EWH gear so I "worked" for it also... but ultimately the matches seem more fair. We can stand against a premade with a pug, not all the times but sometimes.

 

I prefer pvp to be about skills, teamwork and strategy.

 

Fully agree with you, pal. Finally having equal matches between pugs and premades seems like won't be a dream anymore.

 

And of course, a nightmare for those who solely relied on full EWH gear.

[Rantank]

this is why PvPers are lesser players then PvE player... PvE players had their gear made usless as well yet they don't cry, PvPers cry any time their crutches are taken from them. PvP right now is the cloested to PLAYER vs PLAYER that we will get. PvP should be able skill not about who has more gear. Good players understand this bad ones cry when they cannot rely on a crutch to do everything for them.

 

Seriously? You thought starting a flame war was the right thing to do here?

 

The problem I have with these changes is that PVE gear didn't change. I'm still rocking the same gear I had at the start of Makeb with planetary commendations going to upgrade some of the mods. PVP however, just had its gear gutted. My war hero that I spent ages grinding, that was still useful in warzones once past the bolster, has now been castrated to PVE gear. I realise they are trying to erase the old and force a regrind, but PVE gear didn't get the same unkind cut. It still works as intended and can be upgraded as resources permit. The entire lot of PVP gear has been rendered useless for PVP. And Empire side PVP daily didn't exist while I was leveling so now I'm a little behind the curve on PVP gear. It only took two days to get to 55 and that wasn't exactly racing. That's not much time to stock up tokens to get the entry level PVP gear.

[CrazyCanukk]

Sorry, but this is dead wrong. Ok, PvP was a gear grind but it meant that those who achieved it had honed their craft and knew how to play.

 

Now we sometimes get good matches - but the bad ones are beyond horrible with players who don't know their class or understand the WZ charging around like headless chickens.

 

Worse, seeing as there's no point in collecting comms as we're all bolstered, there's no benefit to winning a WZ. So they're full of derps trading blows without a care about the objectives.

 

Commonly seen these days: "Cap 2 in civil war? I bet I could solo for 3." "Chase the ballcarrier or try to set up a pass? Why do that when there's a pit full of imps to fight?" "Guard a pylon? But the imps are in the middle!" "Guard an NC node? But the impsderderderp etc."

 

Rarely seen: "Inc grass 2"

 

IMO its this kind of Elitist PVp player attitude that keeps and has kept many players , like myself, away from even playing that part of the game.

 

There is a learning curve and people with these changes are trying something they maybe hadn't before because of the changes have made PvP more inviting and less intimidating.

 

Instead of Criticizing people for trying something they hadn't previously, maybe take the hard road and help the new players learn how to play pvp properly.

 

People like myself have jobs and lives...and precious little time to game, grind gear and learn all the intricacies of pvp gameplay and our roles, and when some people have tried in the past the "experts" hopped on players like a bunch of raging vultures and made them feel unwelcomed and useless.

 

These changes are opening PVp up to new persons like myself and MANY others and making pvp more accessible, i'm sorry if it bothers the "expert" players that their domain is now being apparently over run by noobs...but people have to start somewhere and if you want "noobs" (which everyone was at some point in time anyways)to be better players..then help them be better players.

[SpearlikeAtom]

I am sorry I did not clarify, I am speaking about level 55 PVP, not the lower tier. However, that being said..from 50-54 You SHOULD get your Exp gear and it SHOULD be relevant because you worked your *** off to get it. Fixing bolster (which they did in this patch was well) was expected.

 

Dude, it's a game. You didn't work your **s off to get anything. You played a game and got some stuff, stuff people constantly complained about one way or another. Relax.... VIDEO GAME.

[Tekkoclarky]

I laughed at the part where he thinks he has worked hard to get his gear.

 

I've not looked into the new system much, but didn't you get increased other stats to make up for the loss of exp? Having that gear will still make you more powerful than new players.

 

It's a good change as there is nothing worse than starting pvp and getting destroyed instantly till you gear up (which only takes time, not hard work) and it isn't fun killing people so easily either, unless you are a bad player and it's the only kills you can get.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Tekkoclarky

[Rantank]

These changes are opening PVp up to new persons like myself and MANY others and making pvp more accessible, i'm sorry if it bothers the "expert" players that their domain is now being apparently over run by noobs...but people have to start somewhere and if you want "noobs" (which everyone was at some point in time anyways)to be better players..then help them be better players.

 

Yeah..... no.

 

I'm no PVP expert either, but I leveled a character just to learn how to pvp where I wouldn't be bothering anyone. The same way I would not expect to learn how to play my character in a hardmode Operation, you shouldn't be trying to learn PVP in level 55 geared up warzones. You're going to get crushed by gear, by skill, by experience and mostly by premades. You'll end up with the same "they're all elitist bastards" attitude you have now.

[astrobearx]

IMO its this kind of Elitist PVp player attitude that keeps and has kept many players , like myself, away from even playing that part of the game.

 

There is a learning curve and people with these changes are trying something they maybe hadn't before because of the changes have made PvP more inviting and less intimidating.

 

Instead of Criticizing people for trying something they hadn't previously, maybe take the hard road and help the new players learn how to play pvp properly.

 

People like myself have jobs and lives...and precious little time to game, grind gear and learn all the intricacies of pvp gameplay and our roles, and when some people have tried in the past the "experts" hopped on players like a bunch of raging vultures and made them feel unwelcomed and useless.

 

These changes are opening PVp up to new persons like myself and MANY others and making pvp more accessible, i'm sorry if it bothers the "expert" players that their domain is now being apparently over run by noobs...but people have to start somewhere and if you want "noobs" (which everyone was at some point in time anyways)to be better players..then help them be better players.

 

agreed

 

if noobs are messing up the wzs for you, then do what i and other players (on the bastion) tend to do each time we see something noob like....tell the other players

 

each wz i start out i tell ppl what they should do and guess what? the acts of noobness go down hugely than if i donbt say anything.

remember wz, like fp is all about communication. if you dont say anything, then you cant expect a fresh lvl 30 to know what to do as lvl 10-29 pvpers dont know anything.

[xDARTHCAEDUSx]

I personally like the changes.

 

I have all the EWH gear so I "worked" for it also... but ultimately the matches seem more fair. We can stand against a premade with a pug, not all the times but sometimes.

 

I prefer pvp to be about skills, teamwork and strategy.

 

this a million times over! these forums are filled with entitled gamers who do nothing but cry and nit pick at every little thing they don't like about the game.

[AsheraII]

I think the new bolster system is completely rediculous in the first place. PvE gear should never be as good for PvP as PvP gear of similar quality. Now guess what they just did? Nerf the EWH gear to hell, by simply removing its expertise stat, but the PvE equivalent gear was left untouched. So statwise, the PvE gear is now AHEAD of the PvP gear. Add the bolster effect, and the old PvE gear pulls AHEAD of the old PvP gear.

The PvP gear is now simply MISSING STATS FROM ITS ITEM BUDGET! We now have 2 different sets of purple 63- armorings with 150 rating. One has the stats applicable to its rating, the other does NOT.

[Holinyx]

how DARE bioware put you on the same exact same fair playing ground as everyone else! NOW we have to rely on skill and not gear!

 

/smack

[saremun]

i think its time to change the rule of PVP gear an PVE gear!

 

1.Remove the Expertise completely.

2. change the rule so that the different between the PVP gear and the PVE gear is only the look, so the classic gear equal WH and the top PVE gear equal the EWH. this way the PVP would be a fair system and if you dont like to grind your gear through PVE then you can grind it through PVP.

[CrazyCanukk]

Yeah..... no.

 

I'm no PVP expert either, but I leveled a character just to learn how to pvp where I wouldn't be bothering anyone. The same way I would not expect to learn how to play my character in a hardmode Operation, you shouldn't be trying to learn PVP in level 55 geared up warzones. You're going to get crushed by gear, by skill, by experience and mostly by premades. You'll end up with the same "they're all elitist bastards" attitude you have now.

 

never called them elitist bastards and never once used an insulting term..

 

what i said was this new content is opening pvp up to more players and making it more accessible..and this elitist attitude of "they are ruining my pvp game!" isn't helping them learn to become a better player.

 

in the end more people learning and enjoying PVp makes the game better for everyone and opening the Pvp game up to new people is a good thing..games don't grow closing the doors to new people and unfortunately many of those new people don't have hours to dedicate to grinding gear, getting coms and learning everything..we have jobs , mortgages , lives and families and gaming comes way down the list of things we love to do but life doesn't give us the time ..so if some changes are made to make this part of the game ,that we also pay for by the way, more accessible and easier to get into then so be it. Your game play may be affected for a short while but as the new players learn and get better they will start to become more useful on a team and become less and less of a hinderance.

 

But nowhere at all did i call anyone an elitist bastard and i suggest stop trying to put words out that i never said just to give your opinion more "flavor" and try flamebait..

[Rantank]

i think its time to change the rule of PVP gear an PVE gear!

 

1.Remove the Expertise completely.

2. change the rule so that the different between the PVP gear and the PVE gear is only the look, so the classic gear equal WH and the top PVE gear equal the EWH. this way the PVP would be a fair system and if you dont like to grind your gear through PVE then you can grind it through PVP.

 

I think they specifically didn't want this to happen, however much sense it makes. Hard core raiders would supplement their raid drops with PVP grinding and make fights trivial long before they should be. There's a natural gating that gear drops from bosses creates and this would circumvent it. People would reach higher gear faster and would quit faster or demand a faster update cycle. Probably wouldn't affect PVPers so much, but PVEers would exploit the crapage out of it.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Rantank

[AsheraII]

I don't mind the idea of a seperation between PvP and PvE gear. So I'm okay with the idea of Expertise as well. However, right now the balance has been shifted towards PvE gear. For some reason, PvE now has to perform perfectly fine in PvP, but PvP gear has to suck for PvE? Sorry, but if that's the idea, then the whole idea of expertise might as well be ditched, and players forced to PvE to get gear to PvP.

 

And really, the difference between PvE and PvP gear wasn't as big as some people claim.

I'm pretty sure most people who complained about how bad their hard earned PvE gear was for PvP, were referring to that Tionese set they got for free. Well, DUHUH! That's why you got a free set of PvP gear as well! But they caught the purple fever and assume their "hard earned" purples should always outperform blue or green (shudder) items..

 

A good player in the Dreadguard set on the other hand was fairly capable of holding up. EWH would've been better, but he was pretty close in performance to a similarly capable player wearing the WH set.

 

And that obviously changed now. A full time PvE noob now has to perform awesome in PvP, but a PvP player is nerfed to hell if he wants to PvE. Sorry, Bioware, but that's bull. Either segregate the equipment BOTH WAYS or don't bother segregating at all, and let PvP die a quiet death once the PvE noobs start facerolling in by sheer merrit of their gear.