Absolutely Unacceptable!

[OKandrew]

Fair playing ground if people like myself wanted to do HM/NIM ops to get Underworld gear. Now, those who want to PVE high end content, are now rewarded for not only having the best PVE gear, but PVP gear aswell. Nice one BW. Glad to know people HAVE to PVE now to be competitive in Ranked WZs.

[Rantank]

what i said was this new content is opening pvp up to more players and making it more accessible..and this elitist attitude of "they are ruining my pvp game!" isn't helping them learn to become a better player.

 

And I'm fine with that, but not at level 55. People want to learn to PVP thats fine, you have all those levels before 55 to learn it, where expertise doesn't make a lick of difference. But max level PVP is no different to max level PVE. It's not the place to be learning your class. It's not fair to your team mates.

 

PVE gear has been left untouched, but PVP gear, that could have been taken forward into current level gear while waiting for upgrades has been neutered. PVE people didn't have to give up their high level gear, no, that carried them through Makeb to their start operations... why should PVP people have been treated differently?

[Light-years]

Dude's be civil a second, disregard OPs attitude and look at what this change affects.

 

Expertise was removed from WH and EWH gear because bolster gives better bonuses instead.

 

Now let me ask this:

 

Do you get the bolster effect in open-world locations on a PvP server? I'm not talking about Outlaw's Den or South West Ilum. I mean out in the general open areas of Alderaan or Hoth or wherever.

 

If you don't get bolster in these areas then it is a problem for PvP players.

 

While I do not approve of the OPs approach to this possible issue, I do understand that it could be a serious problem for some players on PvP servers.

[Caeasar]

Ok, many of you have said the same thing. I will endeavor to point this out and make as much sense about it as possible.

 

1.) If you don't know how to PVP and you jump right into 50-55 level PVP, you should expect to get pummeled and destroyed. Guess what level 10-49 PVP is for? LEARNING HOW TO PVP! Wow, what a concept. Guess why there's no Expertise (or very little) for those levels? Because it's about Learning the PVP model! Take this same 10-49 bracket that existed before add player 49 that has learned to PVP (with all his/her spells and purple modded gear with little to no expertise) and guess what happens? FACEROLL! Why? Because they took the TIME to learn it and have better gear with better stats, even bolster doesn't completely level the playing field.

 

2.) For you PVE'ers, you WILL NOT be able to tackle your class story content without a certain gear level or character level. Same goes for PVP. You don't jump into endgame PVE (HM Operations) with blue gear or tionese gear (that no longer exists). Try doing False emperor (hard mode) in all blue gear, you 'might' be able to do it. But it's going to be tough and you will get bruised and battered. Same principle goes for PVP.

 

3.) And yes, I worked my *** off to be better than some random guy/gal just starting PVP at level 50. I took my lumps to get there because, guess what? That was the design of the game! For them to go and change it dramatically, (removal of Expertise) is poor planning and shows a certain level of apathy for all the players out there like myself, just plain sucks. Yes, it's a video game, yes it's fun. No it's NOT fun to see yourself get screwed over. Maybe you like getting screwed, but I don't particularly care for it.

[Caeasar]

Dude's be civil a second, disregard OPs attitude and look at what this change affects.

 

Expertise was removed from WH and EWH gear because bolster gives better bonuses instead.

 

Now let me ask this:

 

Do you get the bolster effect in open-world locations on a PvP server? I'm not talking about Outlaw's Den or South West Ilum. I mean out in the general open areas of Alderaan or Hoth or wherever.

 

If you don't get bolster in these areas then it is a problem for PvP players.

 

While I do not approve of the OPs approach to this possible issue, I do understand that it could be a serious problem for some players on PvP servers.

 

While your opinions are your own and I respect them, my 'approach' was and is directed at the Developers. And it is not a 'possible issue' imo, it is a very real and bothersome issue to many, many players.

[astrobearx]

Ok, many of you have said the same thing. I will endeavor to point this out and make as much sense about it as possible.

 

1.) If you don't know how to PVP and you jump right into 50-55 level PVP, you should expect to get pummeled and destroyed. Guess what level 10-49 PVP is for? LEARNING HOW TO PVP! Wow, what a concept. Guess why there's no Expertise (or very little) for those levels? Because it's about Learning the PVP model! Take this same 10-49 bracket that existed before add player 49 that has learned to PVP (with all his/her spells and purple modded gear with little to no expertise) and guess what happens? FACEROLL! Why? Because they took the TIME to learn it and have better gear with better stats, even bolster doesn't completely level the playing field.

 

2.) For you PVE'ers, you WILL NOT be able to tackle your class story content without a certain gear level or character level. Same goes for PVP. You don't jump into endgame PVE (HM Operations) with blue gear or tionese gear (that no longer exists). Try doing False emperor (hard mode) in all blue gear, you 'might' be able to do it. But it's going to be tough and you will get bruised and battered. Same principle goes for PVP.

 

3.) And yes, I worked my *** off to be better than some random guy/gal just starting PVP at level 50. I took my lumps to get there because, guess what? That was the design of the game! For them to go and change it dramatically, (removal of Expertise) is poor planning and shows a certain level of apathy for all the players out there like myself, just plain sucks. Yes, it's a video game, yes it's fun. No it's NOT fun to see yourself get screwed over. Maybe you like getting screwed, but I don't particularly care for it.

 

 

tl;dr

 

I WANNA ROFLSTOMP LIEK B4 *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANGRY FAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE*

 

the new wz bracket separate 10 -29 , 30-54 and 55 on it own. i dont see why pre 55 should have expertise when 55 is the new 50. you said it yourself, that 1- 49 is for learning, and 50 is for real Wzs; you guys want your gear to matter again? lvl up to lvl 55 and start grinding again.

 

 

 

OR

 

 

BW could have kept the old pvp vendor and have pvp progression start at lvl 50

Edited April 16, 2013 by astrobearx

[captindoom]

WH and EWH is BiS gear for warzones levels 50 - 54 after this patch. How the hell do u expect level 50 gear to be any good for level 55 warzones.

[Caeasar]

tl;dr

 

I WANNA ROFLSTOMP LIEK B4 *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANGRY FAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE*

 

the new wz bracket separate 10 -29 , 30-54 and 55 on it own. i dont see why pre 55 should have expertise when 55 is the new 50. you said it yourself, that 1- 49 is for learning, and 50 is for real Wzs; you guys want your gear to matter again? lvl up to lvl 55 and start grinding again.

 

 

 

OR

 

 

BW could have kept the old pvp vendor and have pvp progression start at lvl 50

 

I don't know whether you are agreeing or not, but I will simply say that the Developers should not punish those of us that strived to be better than others by going through their VERY OWN MODEL and then stripping us of the very rewards we achieved. It's wrong and a very stupid way to fix an issue. They simply could have toned down the expertise or left it alone with the current PVP gear that was on the fleet before 2.0 for bracket level 50-54. And yes, I expected to have to grind for gear at 55, but not as a naked new player with no Expertise.

[midianlord]

I was going to respond in specific, but I stopped reading about halfway through the thread, where the carebears came in and started their usual anti-PvP flame-fest.

 

All I do know is that it took me months of painful grinding --as in, Arsenal Mercanary + PUGs, enough said!-- which got a little less so as I learned what my class --and more importantly I-- can and cannot do, used that to find my niche in the warzone (read: You are heavy-fire support, not main heavy-fire. That's what the lolsmashers and GS/Snipers with healers backing them are for), and, eventually get the full WH set, with a few EWH off-pieces for my occasionally-embattled Arsen-Merc.

 

Now all that is worthless?

 

Yeah, OK, I've been spoiled by going-on five years of EVE-Online, I admit --that's a proper PvP universe, not this grind-based, no-real-risk/no-real-reward derp-fest, but I don't consider my time value-less. Yet it seems that EAWare has a different view.

 

So:

 

Why not give us a partial trade-in our WH/EWH --a small trade-in, OK. That will still preserve the need for The Almighty Grind!-- sets for at least some of the new pieces? (Let's say you can trade in chest, belt+bracers, pants, boots, helm, and gloves, but not guns/offhand or relics/implants/earpiece. Those must be ground out anew.).

 

Or, if it's basically to become PvE gear, then why not boost its PvE stats to be on a par with similar-rated PvE gear? We put in the bloody time, same as the PvE-only types did in their preferred type of gameplay --our group chat just had a lot of "(X) inc (node-name)" instead of "Stack here on the tank" in it.

 

I mean, this is an on-rails theme-park MMO, so what's the real difference here (It sometimes felt like I was fighting NPCs in the WZ anyway, and I'm not any kind of great PvP'er, believe me.)? We should get the same type of reward for our work, if not exactly the same reward, and not just have all our time invalidated whilst the crying, flaming carebears shown in this thread get it all handed to them.

 

(Oh, speaking of: To the self-absorbed, immature little punk who said that PvP'ers are " lesser people" up there, I will be reporting your post presently. Flaming and inciting flame-wars, as you are so obviously trying to do, are against the ToS, and hopefully your ban will give you time to try....maybe some PvP? Try it, you might just like it.)

 

Ummm....Discuss, please?

[jgoldsack]

As a fully geared EWH, rank 96 pvpr (should be 100 but I slacked off the last month), I welcome these changes.

 

I like that expertise was removed from my EWH gear. Makes me much better at sub-55 pvp, because my gear is no longer gimped. makes me better in PvE because my gear now has all the correct stats. When I do pvp, I am on equal footing as every other player, and the only thing separating people is their skill (or lack thereof). Makes PvP much more enjoyable than facerolling undergeared players.

 

I have not done 55 yet, but I applaud the changes for the same reason. Yes there will be bad players, and more of them, but at the same time, it will bring more people into PvP because the barrier to entry has been removed. And that is a good thing.

[SpearlikeAtom]

I was going to respond in specific, but I stopped reading about halfway through the thread, where the carebears came in and started their usual anti-PvP flame-fest.

 

All I do know is that it took me months of painful grinding --as in, Arsenal Mercanary + PUGs, enough said!-- which got a little less so as I learned what my class --and more importantly I-- can and cannot do, used that to find my niche in the warzone (read: You are heavy-fire support, not main heavy-fire. That's what the lolsmashers and GS/Snipers with healers backing them are for), and, eventually get the full WH set, with a few EWH off-pieces for my occasionally-embattled Arsen-Merc.

 

Now all that is worthless?

 

Yeah, OK, I've been spoiled by going-on five years of EVE-Online, I admit --that's a proper PvP universe, not this grind-based, no-real-risk/no-real-reward derp-fest, but I don't consider my time value-less. Yet it seems that EAWare has a different view.

 

So:

 

Why not give us a partial trade-in our WH/EWH --a small trade-in, OK. That will still preserve the need for The Almighty Grind!-- sets for at least some of the new pieces? (Let's say you can trade in chest, belt+bracers, pants, boots, helm, and gloves, but not guns/offhand or relics/implants/earpiece. Those must be ground out anew.).

 

Or, if it's basically to become PvE gear, then why not boost its PvE stats to be on a par with similar-rated PvE gear? We put in the bloody time, same as the PvE-only types did in their preferred type of gameplay --our group chat just had a lot of "(X) inc (node-name)" instead of "Stack here on the tank" in it.

 

I mean, this is an on-rails theme-park MMO, so what's the real difference here (It sometimes felt like I was fighting NPCs in the WZ anyway, and I'm not any kind of great PvP'er, believe me.)? We should get the same type of reward for our work, if not exactly the same reward, and not just have all our time invalidated whilst the crying, flaming carebears shown in this thread get it all handed to them.

 

(Oh, speaking of: To the self-absorbed, immature little punk who said that PvP'ers are " lesser people" up there, I will be reporting your post presently. Flaming and inciting flame-wars, as you are so obviously trying to do, are against the ToS, and hopefully your ban will give you time to try....maybe some PvP? Try it, you might just like it.)

 

Ummm....Discuss, please?

 

Ummmm.... Still just a game?

[MalDeChagas]

how DARE bioware put you on the same exact same fair playing ground as everyone else! NOW we have to rely on skill and not gear!

 

/smack

A few of my lesser played characters are still wearing some pieces of battle master. BW was too lazy to change those. Yes, I could use planetary comms to replace the mods with 25 purples, but I'd also lose the set bonus doing so. Those characters will be penalized by this ridiculous bolster system if I don't give up the set bonus.

[jgoldsack]

A few of my lesser played characters are still wearing some pieces of battle master. BW was too lazy to change those. Yes, I could use planetary comms to replace the mods with 25 purples, but I'd also lose the set bonus doing so. Those characters will be penalized by this ridiculous bolster system if I don't give up the set bonus.

 

honestly you would be better off without the bonus anyway.

[LadyVix]

WH and EWH is BiS gear for warzones levels 50 - 54 after this patch. How the hell do u expect level 50 gear to be any good for level 55 warzones.

 

Would you say that partisan armor with a 150 rating is any good in 55 warzones? EWH gear also had a rating of 150, and augmented was just as viable in 55 warzones as partisan is today. Yesterday I had augmented EWH armor that performed fine in 55 warzones. Today I have a character outfitted in PVE gear, and whose stats can be surpassed by hardcore raiders PVPing for the first time. We got ****ED HARD by BioWare on this one.

[Light-years]

Dude's be civil a second, disregard OPs attitude and look at what this change affects.

 

Expertise was removed from WH and EWH gear because bolster gives better bonuses instead.

 

Now let me ask this:

 

Do you get the bolster effect in open-world locations on a PvP server? I'm not talking about Outlaw's Den or South West Ilum. I mean out in the general open areas of Alderaan or Hoth or wherever.

 

If you don't get bolster in these areas then it is a problem for PvP players.

 

While I do not approve of the OPs approach to this possible issue, I do understand that it could be a serious problem for some players on PvP servers.

 

I still just see people in this thread basing their arguments on warzone-specific scenarios.

 

This game has PvP servers and open-world PvP areas where bolster is not in effect, making it's benefits over expertise gear moot.

[MalDeChagas]

Would you say that partisan armor with a 150 rating is any good in 55 warzones? EWH gear also had a rating of 150, and augmented was just as viable in 55 warzones as partisan is today. Yesterday I had augmented EWH armor that performed fine in 55 warzones. Today I have a character outfitted in PVE gear, and whose stats can be surpassed by hardcore raiders PVPing for the first time. We got ****ED HARD by BioWare on this one.

Raid or die...

 

This was a horrible move BW.

[captindoom]

Would you say that partisan armor with a 150 rating is any good in 55 warzones? EWH gear also had a rating of 150, and augmented was just as viable in 55 warzones as partisan is today. Yesterday I had augmented EWH armor that performed fine in 55 warzones. Today I have a character outfitted in PVE gear, and whose stats can be surpassed by hardcore raiders PVPing for the first time. We got ****ED HARD by BioWare on this one.

 

I dont know how people thought that their EWH gear would be good enough for lvl 55 wzs. True PVP'ers would of been aware of this fact and prepared for this.

[midianlord]

Ummmm.... Still just a game?

 

You're completely missing the point. Not unexpected.

 

Next!

[jgoldsack]

I dont know how people thought that their EWH gear would be good enough for lvl 55 wzs. True PVP'ers would of been aware of this fact and prepared for this.

 

I had no illusions that my EWH gear would work for 55 PvP. I don't know why other did not make the same assumption. I guess some like to cling to the old things.

[astrobearx]

I dont know how people thought that their EWH gear would be good enough for lvl 55 wzs. True PVP'ers would of been aware of this fact and prepared for this.

 

this. i prepare for this day since i hear of the dlc.i already have the new rank pvp armor on my lvl 55 sin. these guys thought they would still roflstomp in 30-54 wz bracket with theirs OUTDATED pvp gear lol:rolleyes:

[Kubernetic]

What really sucks about this is if the Expertise is permanently removed.

 

One of the reasons I started PVPing in the first place was to get a good set of War Hero gear that had enough expertise on it that I wouldn't be ganked by other 50+ players with Expertise gear.

 

Now if that's been stripped, ***? There are more PVP zones than just warzones.

 

Or does BioWare just forget how their game works?

[jgoldsack]

What really sucks about this is if the Expertise is permanently removed.

 

One of the reasons I started PVPing in the first place was to get a good set of War Hero gear that had enough expertise on it that I wouldn't be ganked by other 50+ players with Expertise gear.

 

Now if that's been stripped, ***? There are more PVP zones than just warzones.

 

Or does BioWare just forget how their game works?

 

Bolster provided the expertise. Once your gear passes a certain threshold, then bolster will no longer apply to that piece (55 pvp). So people in top-tier pve gear will still have 0 expertise in 55 pvp.

[Tekkoclarky]

Wait, so all this crying is over nothing? As at level 55, pve gear will still be crap for pvp and pvp gear will have exp again? As long as it is level 55 gear. Edited April 16, 2013 by Tekkoclarky

[Rantank]

Bolster provided the expertise. Once your gear passes a certain threshold, then bolster will no longer apply to that piece (55 pvp). So people in top-tier pve gear will still have 0 expertise in 55 pvp.

 

I read PVP zones as real world.. meaning, no bolster of any kind, ever. There, expertise was kind of important.

[uziforyou]

Sorry, but this is dead wrong. Ok, PvP was a gear grind but it meant that those who achieved it had honed their craft and knew how to play.

Now we sometimes get good matches - but the bad ones are beyond horrible with players who don't know their class or understand the WZ charging around like headless chickens.

 

Worse, seeing as there's no point in collecting comms as we're all bolstered, there's no benefit to winning a WZ. So they're full of derps trading blows without a care about the objectives.

 

Commonly seen these days: "Cap 2 in civil war? I bet I could solo for 3." "Chase the ballcarrier or try to set up a pass? Why do that when there's a pit full of imps to fight?" "Guard a pylon? But the imps are in the middle!" "Guard an NC node? But the impsderderderp etc."

 

Rarely seen: "Inc grass 2"

 

Do you actually believe the underlined part above? Getting badges in warzones does not necessarily equate to 'honing their craft and knowing how to play'. Attaining gear in PvP just like PvE doesn't come with a certificate of "I now know how to play". It still amazes me how people take gear to mean somebody knows how to play. Just isn't reality and doesn't work that way.