2.0 Hardmode Flashpoints are not worth the payout.

[Burtlebe]

i see that the changes in healing needs seem to be the cause for these wipes, somewhat. i have also been in groups that still have black hole gear on i dont mean some parts i mean full black hole. As a tank its beyond frustrating and spending 2 hours and hundreds of thousands of credits on repairs for a single flashpoint that does not give you squat but a few tokens per run and i need 100s for each part. so that means i have to do this flashpoints hundreds of times to gear up. In no way is that worth the effort.

 

btw what is the solution for the dam wookie adds ?

 

in case no one answered:

 

 

Keep the adds near the wookie his flame thrower will kill them

 

[Thundergulch]

i see that the changes in healing needs seem to be the cause for these wipes, somewhat. i have also been in groups that still have black hole gear on i dont mean some parts i mean full black hole. As a tank its beyond frustrating and spending 2 hours and hundreds of thousands of credits on repairs for a single flashpoint that does not give you squat but a few tokens per run and i need 100s for each part. so that means i have to do this flashpoints hundreds of times to gear up. In no way is that worth the effort.

 

btw what is the solution for the dam wookie adds ?

 

Again, I'm calling you a liar.

In order for repair costs to be THAT much, you would have to wipe 200 times per FP.

[Andryah]

Again, I'm calling you a liar.

 

You have to admit though.. he is persistent here. Imagine what his repair costs must be for wiping umpteen times in this thread. :p:p

 

On a more serious note... Irawratih...it's done..over... sane, calculating and rational minds have patiently proven you to be wrong here. So really... all you are left with is your personal opinion.. which you are entitled to.... but it is not something you can make anyone else buy into.. no matter how many times you conflate and distort.

[Thundergulch]

You have to admit though.. he is persistent here. Imagine what his repair costs must be for wiping umpteen times in this thread. :p:p

 

On a more serious note... Irawratih...it's done..over... sane, calculating and rational minds have patiently proven you to be wrong here. So really... all you are left with is your personal opinion.. which you are entitled to.... but it is not something you can make anyone else buy into.. no matter how many times you conflate and distort.

 

Sounds like he's part of the "entitlement generation", where he wants everything changed to suit his needs.

He lives by the theory that if you make enough noise and scream loud enough, even if what you're saying isn't true, you will get your way just because people want you to shut up.

Probably was a complete spoiled brat growing up, mommy gave him everything he wanted, and every day told him he was special, played sports where they didn't keep score, and everyone got a trophy... then he stepped into the real world where life gets real, and he's not a special little flower anymore like he was told his entire life.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

While the 55 FPs are harder and require effort, does anyone else think there is a balance issue between trash mobs and bosses?

 

Not really, I think the issue is that there is a tendency to treat trash mobs as no threat at all and approach each fight with a "kill em all" attitude and expecting the tank to mitigate a lot of the damage. A little bit of coordination and the difficulty goes down a lot.

[DawnAskham]

Not really, I think the issue is that there is a tendency to treat trash mobs as no threat at all and approach each fight with a "kill em all" attitude and expecting the tank to mitigate a lot of the damage. A little bit of coordination and the difficulty goes down a lot.

 

Disagree. It is 'trash' for a reason, simply having a lot of strongs (that weren't adjusted like elites) in a pull doing a lot of unavoidable damage doesn't make it hard, just annoying.

 

Trash should never be more unforgiving than a boss, and when it is hard, it should be hard because there are mobs that need to be focused or controlled, not because there is a lot of it that hits hard.

 

Not all trash is this way, so I'm certainly not stating that all trash in 55 HMs is tuned too high, just some packs seem to be a bit out of line (such as the big dog packs in Mando).

[Khevar]

Disagree. It is 'trash' for a reason, simply having a lot of strongs (that weren't adjusted like elites) in a pull doing a lot of unavoidable damage doesn't make it hard, just annoying.

 

Trash should never be more unforgiving than a boss, and when it is hard, it should be hard because there are mobs that need to be focused or controlled, not because there is a lot of it that hits hard.

 

Not all trash is this way, so I'm certainly not stating that all trash in 55 HMs is tuned too high, just some packs seem to be a bit out of line (such as the big dog packs in Mando).

I've run into the difficult trash a couple of times. For me, it seems to be more a matter of perspective than anything else.

 

The first few times I ran HM False Emperor, the pull at the first doorway was very very hard. Frequently I would wipe there, especially in pug groups. This is the fight that "made me a citizen" in terms of why CC should be used, don't break mez, use defensive cooldowns, watch aggro etc. Of course, I was running the flashpoint in a mix of purple daily gear and a couple of Tionese pieces.

 

The last time I ran FE in a pug, I was in mostly Black Hole with a few pieces of DG. Nobody marked squat, nobody cc'ed anything, we all just charged in a derped the fight. Nobody died and we moved on.

 

The problems I've in the new level 55 HM FPs is that I forget to realize that my previously awesome gear is kinda crap now, (on a par of how I was when I first ran HM FE). As long as I keep this in mind (and others in the pug do too) and we do a pull smoothly, things go fine.

[Glorthox]

You have to admit though.. he is persistent here. Imagine what his repair costs must be for wiping umpteen times in this thread. :p:p

 

On a more serious note... Irawratih...it's done..over... sane, calculating and rational minds have patiently proven you to be wrong here. So really... all you are left with is your personal opinion.. which you are entitled to.... but it is not something you can make anyone else buy into.. no matter how many times you conflate and distort.

 

Wow your one to talk. No matter what swtor bring out you will love and support them to the bitter end. And that is called being a lemming with no true purpose and just follow the leader off a cliff....

[bodhisattvasw]

Again, I'm calling you a liar.

In order for repair costs to be THAT much, you would have to wipe 200 times per FP.

 

Umm not true.. 5 wipes in one and I was out 45,000 credits.

 

Do the math, it's quite easy to blow through 100K+ every few FP's if you wipe. Costs are outrageous right now, and it is retarded.. Really. Payouts are crap, risk vs reward is NOT there, and it is ruining this game, driving people away.

Edited April 17, 2013 by bodhisattvasw

[Glorthox]

I think the minimum gear required IS BH and Campaign.

And if you're nearly getting 1 shotted by trash and bosses, then maybe you don't have the correct itemization?

Is your gear augmented? With the correct Augments?

There is no way you should be getting almost 1 shotted at all in your gear. It's not the FP that is the problem.

Repair costs are fine where they are at. I'm in almost full 69 gear after last night, and still only pay 5,600 per death.

 

I am in primarily 150 rated gear. Some campaign and black market. And still being nearly one shotted without blowing cd's. Mobs hit way too hard and the repair bill is a bit high. Wiped 10 times and it costed me about 60k credits. And wiped 5 times the next hardmode and it costed 32k. So yes the FP's aren't worth the payout.

[Khevar]

I am in primarily 150 rated gear. Some campaign and black market. And still being nearly one shotted without blowing cd's. Mobs hit way too hard and the repair bill is a bit high. Wiped 10 times and it costed me about 60k credits. And wiped 5 times the next hardmode and it costed 32k. So yes the FP's aren't worth the payout.

Have you considered asking the community here for advice on how to

 

a) Better optimize your build

b) Better optimize your gear load-out

c) Better optimize your rotation/priority list

d) Better coordinate with others in the group

e) Better strategies for tackling the flashpoints

 

I've actually seen posts that asked for help like this, and they almost always get it.

 

In New Players forum, in Flashpoints forum, in Class forums. There are any number of people that actually enjoy helping other players get better, who have written guides, worked out good approaches to combat, and can be of benefit to you.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Khevar

[Lostpenguins]

I am in primarily 150 rated gear. Some campaign and black market. And still being nearly one shotted without blowing cd's. Mobs hit way too hard and the repair bill is a bit high. Wiped 10 times and it costed me about 60k credits. And wiped 5 times the next hardmode and it costed 32k. So yes the FP's aren't worth the payout.

1 - "one shotted" - If you're in the gear you say you're in you should be ~23k hp (if not more - this is assuming you actually took the time to augment your gear). Please let me know which mobs are hitting you for ~90% of your health in one attack as that's nearly 90% of your health.

2 - You wiped 5 times, spent 32k in repair bills. Meaning, excluding standard wear and tear, your deaths were costing you 6k a pop. Sounds about right. BW told us the prices would go back up come 2.0. One Makeb daily gives you over 8k. Do all 10'ish and that's 80k a day for 30-45 mins of your time.

3 - I do mostly group runs, but I've done 3 pug runs. Total unsuccessful groups or groups where we died more than twice? 0.

 

If you're having these many problems maybe you need to figure out what's going on that's wrong? Missing a mechanic on a boss? Not cc'ing mobs? Healer bad? DPS bad? Are you bad? It's not simply that the HM is too hard. It may be too hard for you, but that means you need to improve because I find them laughably easy.

[KostonxEld]

My problem is running these with people you don't know thru groupfinder is expensive. Everyone "knows the fights" till they start doing stupid crap.

There should be a repair discount if you queue thru groupfinder!!

 

Running with strangers shouldn't be so expensive I don't think. You should promote cooperation! People quitting after 1 wipe cu repair are too expensive isn't helping anything or anyone!

[Thundergulch]

Umm not true.. 5 wipes in one and I was out 45,000 credits.

 

Do the math, it's quite easy to blow through 100K+ every few FP's if you wipe. Costs are outrageous right now, and it is retarded.. Really. Payouts are crap, risk vs reward is NOT there, and it is ruining this game, driving people away.

 

He's claiming that he's spending 23k per wipe, and spending "hundreds of thousands of credits" in 2 hours in a single flashpoint, and to spend that much he would have to wipe on every trash pull, while wearing the best gear.

That's why I'm calling him out. Because he's exaggerating, making up lies to make it his case.

[Thundergulch]

If you're having these many problems maybe you need to figure out what's going on that's wrong? Missing a mechanic on a boss? Not cc'ing mobs? Healer bad? DPS bad? Are you bad? It's not simply that the HM is too hard. It may be too hard for you, but that means you need to improve because I find them laughably easy.

 

This is most likely the case.

Funny that so many people are complaining about the difficulty of HM FP's.

Doesn't anyone like a challenge anymore?

There is a fine like between wiping over and over, to figuring out 1 small thing and making the entire encounter go smoothly with zero deaths.

[Snapsix]

The other problem is actually the nerf to equipment from level ups 51-55, it makes it so we're a lot more fragile in some respects than we used to be.

 

I can tank Athis and if I respec to tank, I'm able to tank Mandalorian Raiders.

 

I have a hard time tanking Cadmandeu (or crashmandeu as I like to call it) (even the first boss).

 

Granted I prefer playing a dps, but we have very few players that actually tank anymore (I suspect they left out of frustration), I really don't like the tank tree, I prefer the Vigilence Tree.

 

Wait - you are dps spec in dps gear and you are complaining about being too squishy and not being able to tank?

 

Tank gear is totally different to dps gear, for a start endurance is primary main stat and mitigation stats are priority - not to mention the added mitigation and debuffs you gain from being properly specced. Sorry to be douche but people like you queuing as tanks REALLY annoys me, almost as much as a dps spec who queues as a healer then runs off on his own pulling mobs and getting everybody killed...I know you said your motive is good in that you are trying to fill a void due to lack of decent tanks but...ughhhh

 

Soresu form and a shield does not mean you can queue as a tank...do yourself and anyone unfortunate to group with you a favour and just queue as dps

 

/end rant

Edited April 18, 2013 by Snapsix

[mattkingsw]

My problem is running these with people you don't know thru groupfinder is expensive. Everyone "knows the fights" till they start doing stupid crap.

There should be a repair discount if you queue thru groupfinder!!

 

Running with strangers shouldn't be so expensive I don't think. You should promote cooperation! People quitting after 1 wipe cu repair are too expensive isn't helping anything or anyone!

 

This..

 

Last night, 10 wipes attempting to do my dailies. Generally because of green geared chumps that queue up and think they are HM ready - they aren't. After a succession of 'replacements' (with vote kicks), we found a group reasonable enough to complete the stupid hard modes.

 

There should be a reduction in difficulty when using group finder AND a dramatic reduction in cost. I cannot afford to wipe 10-20 times a night supporting idiot pugs.

[McCay_Jones]

As a Vanguard tank, I have had no issues tanking these hardmodes so far. Done Hammer station and Cademimu. Only wipe happened on the first boss on Hammer Station as we were learning the fight.

 

Now I am in tanking gear (mostly War Hero with a few 63 pieces since 2.0) and granted there are times when all the NPCs attack me at once that my health goes down, but that is the nature of the beast. Coordination takes time and practice. We learn and adapt. Once people get to Ultimate gear, these will seem easier. So enjoy the challenge and the new mechanics.

 

I am enjoying the challenge and fun.

[Thundergulch]

Last night, 10 wipes attempting to do my dailies. Generally because of green geared chumps that queue up and think they are HM ready - they aren't. After a succession of 'replacements' (with vote kicks), we found a group reasonable enough to complete the stupid hard modes.

 

There should be a reduction in difficulty when using group finder AND a dramatic reduction in cost. I cannot afford to wipe 10-20 times a night supporting idiot pugs.

 

The only one to blame is yourself.

You are not forced to run with undergeared people, and I'm willing to bet all of my credits that you're not running with "green geared chumps".

If the group is incompetent, leave, wait out the timer, re-que.

OR run with 3 other guildies, yes, it really is that simple of a solution.

Making these FP's easier than they already are,just because you people cry repeatedly, is just plain stupid.

Group Finder FP's are NOT TOO HARD!

Ever stop to think you're not as leet as you think you are?

[NigeldeJ]

It's somewhat challenging, but if everyone knows their class just a little bit, it's not hard doing it in full 61 gear

[Lasica]

He's claiming that he's spending 23k per wipe, and spending "hundreds of thousands of credits" in 2 hours in a single flashpoint, and to spend that much he would have to wipe on every trash pull, while wearing the best gear.

That's why I'm calling him out. Because he's exaggerating, making up lies to make it his case.

 

Have to agree here. Did my first 55 hard mode tonight and we had one wipe and I was healing in what is considered undergeared (mostly war hero with a few black hole pieces and one basic commendations piece). The bosses in Hammer Station were exceedingly easy to kill, I'd go as far as to say they were easier than in the normal mode of the instance.

 

For the record, our one wipe was on the 3rd pack of enemies in the instance where the group I was in used no CC and I was unable to keep the tank alive through all the damage. The rest of the trash was ok although there were a few close moments when the sentinel dps pulled an extra elite just before the bonus boss. I think with CC (and we had 5 possible CC) the instance would have been exceedingly easy.

 

So my recommendation if you are undergeared is to use CC and pull enemies fairly carefully. You shouldn't have trouble with the bosses, the trash is harder.

[Never_Hesitate]

What do you expect to happen in these newer flashpoints? Every boss drop Black Market? That's just silly.

 

yes, I do

Or at least purple lvl 53 (66) equip, not the blue bs

 

They are not bosses, they are just hard mobs. There is no reason why they should also drop Black Market gear.

 

that's just completely untrue.

they are categorized as boss mobs.

 

or do you say the dreadguards and kephess in asation aren't bosses either, they're just hard mobs?

is your opinion that they shouldn't drop any interesting loot as well?

[MillionsKNives]

yes, I do

Or at least purple lvl 53 (66) equip, not the blue bs

 

 

 

that's just completely untrue.

they are categorized as boss mobs.

 

or do you say the dreadguards and kephess in asation aren't bosses either, they're just hard mobs?

is your opinion that they shouldn't drop any interesting loot as well?

 

These are not operations, they are flashpoints. They are much shorter and easier. There are also at least half as many people as in an operation. It should drop less loot. Up until semi-recently the only good drop in the 50 HMs was the last boss and the bonus boss (maybe). Everything else was worthless.

[Master-Nala]

Considering un-subscribing and being done with all MMO's. Just so tired of dealing with professional gamers. It angers me something fierce. Maybe it is just time to un-install all the MMO's on my computer and find something else to do. All MMO's seem to cater to the elitist professional gamer and less on the fun factor.

 

Just play and screw them! There will always be folks who use these games to fill the void missing in their lives.

[Lostpenguins]

Last night, 10 wipes...

It should have stopped at 2-3. If I see people are either undergeared or obviously don't know what they're doing, and we're wiping, I usually give the group the 3-strike rule. I'd rather leave the instance, get a 15-minute deserter debuff, then spend that 15 minutes doing nothing but eating up my credits to repairs. I am nice enough to let the group know before leaving that if we wipe one more time I'm leaving.

 

There's a certain point where I'm not going to waste my time anymore just to be nice. I learned that a long time ago in WoW where my being "nice" caused me to do 2 full repairs in TBC.