2.0 Hardmode Flashpoints are not worth the payout.

[Lostpenguins]

At the end of the day though, the repair costs of dying is not worth it. Regardless if people get wiped or not. The way this game is now is like your losing more money then you are gaining in turn pushing away the casual players who dont really give a **** about being the strongest player in the universe. They just want to have fun with other players in the Star Wars universe.

Do dailies. I'm running a HM a day and doing my dailies (as I want Makeb Hero status + comms to get the craftable implants that look to be BiS even through Ultimate Gear) and I'm still making money just fine.

 

If you're too casual to do some dailies then MMO's are the game for you. MMO's require some maintenance of your guy, some work. Much like any game, you have to put time in to get better, and doing dailies is one such thing. No good game will hand you everything w/out some work or a challenge.

[GarfieldJL]

By Basic Gear, I literally mean the gear that one buys with Basic commendations, in case that was unclear, not the gear acquired while leveling through Makeb.

 

Some of the new gear upgrades are inferior in some respects to the lvl 50 gear you get with classic commendations...

[Irawratih]

wow so many troll responses,

so lets sum up the troll responses, its too easy for me, everyone but me sucks, every boss drops awsome gear, and repair costs are not what i have said they are. Well i am not a hardcore super no life mmo troll. so if you dont think things are too hard and the payouts are awsome great for you. Now for the normal player that has a life. repair costs are high, the bosses dropping blue level 53 items are not at all acceptable. The fact that you get 1 purple drop and it is NOT a token makes these feel like a waste of effort and time. People are doing these in black hole gear because like so many special people here belive they are too good for any difficulty level so they could never be the problem. yet tanks are paying the price in repairs due to over agro poor healing and undergeared players. i do not blame the undergeared players because that is why you do flashpoints is to get better gear. I love the its a hardmode statements maybe you have not noticed THEY DID NOT ADD A SINGLE NON HARDMODE LEVEL 55 FLASHPOINT.

 

Overall many here are missing the point IT IS NOT FUN to spend hours on flashpoints and come out of this with a loss. yes you get 2 whole tokens per boss, but the gear cost 80-140 per item. For those who have math issues that means i have to run these many many many times for gear. But if it is not FUN then what is the motivation to do it?

 

BTW thank you to all the possitive feedback, At least most agree drops should be better and tokens and repair costs are high.

[Lostpenguins]

wow so many troll responses,

so lets sum up the troll responses, its too easy for me, everyone but me sucks, every boss drops awsome gear, and repair costs are not what i have said they are. Well i am not a hardcore super no life mmo troll. so if you dont think things are too hard and the payouts are awsome great for you. Now for the normal player that has a life. repair costs are high, the bosses dropping blue level 53 items are not at all acceptable. The fact that you get 1 purple drop and it is NOT a token makes these feel like a waste of effort and time. People are doing these in black hole gear because like so many special people here belive they are too good for any difficulty level so they could never be the problem. yet tanks are paying the price in repairs due to over agro poor healing and undergeared players. i do not blame the undergeared players because that is why you do flashpoints is to get better gear. I love the its a hardmode statements maybe you have not noticed THEY DID NOT ADD A SINGLE NON HARDMODE LEVEL 55 FLASHPOINT.

 

Overall many here are missing the point IT IS NOT FUN to spend hours on flashpoints and come out of this with a loss. yes you get 2 whole tokens per boss, but the gear cost 80-140 per item. For those who have math issues that means i have to run these many many many times for gear. But if it is not FUN then what is the motivation to do it?

 

BTW thank you to all the possitive feedback, At least most agree drops should be better and tokens and repair costs are high.

Just wait ~ 6 months to get carried by all those "no life mmo trolls" who put effort in. =)

 

Seriously, there's plenty of ways to improve yourself so you don't keep dying. You refuse to try anything except complain that it's not your fault. That sounds like a personal problem.

[Irawratih]

thank you king troll

[Jeweledleah]

I have a question.

 

did I understand correctly that bosses drop non moddable gear (not lvl 55 yet, so haven't seen personally)? meaning that even if its an upgrade, you are essentially sacrificing the look you want for minor increase in stats?

 

wouldn't it be better if at least the loot that dropped was moddable, so even if its the same level, at least you could rip the mods out?

[MillionsKNives]

I have a question.

 

did I understand correctly that bosses drop non moddable gear (not lvl 55 yet, so haven't seen personally)? meaning that even if its an upgrade, you are essentially sacrificing the look you want for minor increase in stats?

 

wouldn't it be better if at least the loot that dropped was moddable, so even if its the same level, at least you could rip the mods out?

 

I don't think I've seen any non-moddable pieces drop from the 55 HMs.

[Lostpenguins]

thank you king troll

Explain how I'm trolling? You're just getting upset because you aren't very good at this game, but make no effort to improve.

 

You're like the Luke Walton of NBA asking them to change the rules just cuz you can't score.

[Lostpenguins]

I have a question.

 

did I understand correctly that bosses drop non moddable gear (not lvl 55 yet, so haven't seen personally)? meaning that even if its an upgrade, you are essentially sacrificing the look you want for minor increase in stats?

 

wouldn't it be better if at least the loot that dropped was moddable, so even if its the same level, at least you could rip the mods out?

Yeah, it's moddable lvl 69 gear. It's just not set pieces.

[Khevar]

wow so many troll responses,

so lets sum up the troll responses, its too easy for me, everyone but me sucks, every boss drops awsome gear, and repair costs are not what i have said they are.Well i am not a hardcore super no life mmo troll. ...

Tell me this, and I'd like an honest response:

Why aren't you posting questions asking for advice, tips or help?

Why don't you consider this a valid approach to this problem?

Edited April 16, 2013 by Khevar

[Jeweledleah]

Yeah, it's moddable lvl 69 gear. It's just not set pieces.

 

ah. in that case its not that bad. it would be nice if last boss dropped some of the set pieces though, ala 50hm flashpoints.

[Levity]

wow so many troll responses,

so lets sum up the troll responses, its too easy for me, everyone but me sucks, every boss drops awsome gear, and repair costs are not what i have said they are. Well i am not a hardcore super no life mmo troll. so if you dont think things are too hard and the payouts are awsome great for you. Now for the normal player that has a life. repair costs are high, the bosses dropping blue level 53 items are not at all acceptable. The fact that you get 1 purple drop and it is NOT a token makes these feel like a waste of effort and time. People are doing these in black hole gear because like so many special people here belive they are too good for any difficulty level so they could never be the problem. yet tanks are paying the price in repairs due to over agro poor healing and undergeared players. i do not blame the undergeared players because that is why you do flashpoints is to get better gear. I love the its a hardmode statements maybe you have not noticed THEY DID NOT ADD A SINGLE NON HARDMODE LEVEL 55 FLASHPOINT.

 

Overall many here are missing the point IT IS NOT FUN to spend hours on flashpoints and come out of this with a loss. yes you get 2 whole tokens per boss, but the gear cost 80-140 per item. For those who have math issues that means i have to run these many many many times for gear. But if it is not FUN then what is the motivation to do it?

 

BTW thank you to all the possitive feedback, At least most agree drops should be better and tokens and repair costs are high.

 

So I'm glad positive feedback to you means "everyone who agrees with me." Haha. Man so lame. And hmmm they already had the the normal mode versions of the FPs so it would be redundant to add another normal mode version. And plenty of people are saying they are clearing these HMs with little to no whipes in PUGs.... So what if people don't agree with you. Oh and it is TWO pieces of gear per FP. Do the bonus sometime. And people are NOT missing the point. They realize your opinion of fun is just rolling over content with little to no effort. Guess what? Games are meant to be challenging. I'm tired of entitled attitudes. "I can't play a lot so everything should be catered to me." Stop playing if you can't put in the time to pay a measly 23k for a repair. Even a measly 100k for a repair. These games require some time of time and effort to acquire the things to keep your character afloat, get over it or don't play.

[Jilisipone]

wow so many troll responses,

so lets sum up the troll responses, its too easy for me, everyone but me sucks, every boss drops awsome gear, and repair costs are not what i have said they are. Well i am not a hardcore super no life mmo troll. so if you dont think things are too hard and the payouts are awsome great for you. Now for the normal player that has a life. repair costs are high, the bosses dropping blue level 53 items are not at all acceptable. The fact that you get 1 purple drop and it is NOT a token makes these feel like a waste of effort and time. People are doing these in black hole gear because like so many special people here belive they are too good for any difficulty level so they could never be the problem. yet tanks are paying the price in repairs due to over agro poor healing and undergeared players. i do not blame the undergeared players because that is why you do flashpoints is to get better gear. I love the its a hardmode statements maybe you have not noticed THEY DID NOT ADD A SINGLE NON HARDMODE LEVEL 55 FLASHPOINT.

 

Overall many here are missing the point IT IS NOT FUN to spend hours on flashpoints and come out of this with a loss. yes you get 2 whole tokens per boss, but the gear cost 80-140 per item. For those who have math issues that means i have to run these many many many times for gear. But if it is not FUN then what is the motivation to do it?

 

BTW thank you to all the possitive feedback, At least most agree drops should be better and tokens and repair costs are high.

 

There is absolutely no reason that people should be doing the level 55 HardModes in less than Black Hole gear. From the time you hit level 50 you can do level 50 StoryMode and HardMode Flashpoints and faceroll them and earn Black Hole gear. Heck, at level 55 the level 50 StoryMode flashpoints are soloable as well as HardMode Black Talon. If you have trouble soloing them...they are easily done with two players and two companions without any issue at all.

 

If you expect to finish questing on Makeb and jump straight into level 55 HardModes wearing blues and greens, the problem is YOU and not the difficulty of the zones.

 

It costs approximately 5k credits per wipe to repair (and I'm a tank in all 61+ epic gear). Even when running with a PuG in appropriate gear, we rarely wipe because I've learned the mechanics and explain them to anyone not familiar with them. Are there some tense moments in the runs, yes; because these HardModes are tuned like they should be and not like the faceroll HardModes of level 50 past. However, if everyone follows the mechanics, works together, and doesn't break CCs then things generally go really well.

 

The only part of this argument that I actually agree with is that I don't like that the bosses drop actual Black Market pieces instead of tokens. I can't tell how many times I've seen DPS Aim/Endurance gear drop when I'm the only Bounty Hunter and I'm a tank. That gear is mostly wasted in my bags for the one time every 2-3 months I get to switch to DPS for a week or two for guild runs. I think they need to go back to dropping the class based tokens that can be turned in instead of the current system.

 

Its annoying yes, but it's not game-breaking. It just means I have to farm more to get my gear. And calling anyone that doesn't agree with you a troll completely invalidates any debatable arguments you made.

[Thundergulch]

wow so many troll responses,

so lets sum up the troll responses, its too easy for me, everyone but me sucks, every boss drops awsome gear, and repair costs are not what i have said they are. Well i am not a hardcore super no life mmo troll. so if you dont think things are too hard and the payouts are awsome great for you. Now for the normal player that has a life. repair costs are high, the bosses dropping blue level 53 items are not at all acceptable. The fact that you get 1 purple drop and it is NOT a token makes these feel like a waste of effort and time. People are doing these in black hole gear because like so many special people here belive they are too good for any difficulty level so they could never be the problem. yet tanks are paying the price in repairs due to over agro poor healing and undergeared players. i do not blame the undergeared players because that is why you do flashpoints is to get better gear. I love the its a hardmode statements maybe you have not noticed THEY DID NOT ADD A SINGLE NON HARDMODE LEVEL 55 FLASHPOINT.

 

Overall many here are missing the point IT IS NOT FUN to spend hours on flashpoints and come out of this with a loss. yes you get 2 whole tokens per boss, but the gear cost 80-140 per item. For those who have math issues that means i have to run these many many many times for gear. But if it is not FUN then what is the motivation to do it?

 

BTW thank you to all the possitive feedback, At least most agree drops should be better and tokens and repair costs are high.

 

Bolded in red for truth, because there is NO WAY you are paying 23k per death. So stop lying.

also, Black Hole gear rains from the sky, it's not hard to get it.

[Thundergulch]

Explain how I'm trolling? You're just getting upset because you aren't very good at this game, but make no effort to improve.

 

You're like the Luke Walton of NBA asking them to change the rules just cuz you can't score.

 

You're not trolling, nor am I or a lot of others.

[Ocho-Quatro]

1. Bosses drops BLUE gear really? And dont hold your breath but a whooping 2 elite tokens . what is the point. If i can craft the level of gear given is too low.

 

All the upgraded level 55 flashpoints have several bosses that drop blue 66 gear, which is an upgrade to anyone using Campaign/Black Hole across the board, and can even help replace some Hazmat/Dread Guard to help counteract new stat changes/DR yields. They are minor upgrades, but still upgrades nonetheless.

 

The final boss in each flashpoint will drop a piece of non-set bonus Black Market/Elite gear. (69s) And each flashpoint also has a bonus boss that drops the same.

 

So for the roughly 45 minutes (1 hour max if your team is struggling) it takes to run a flashpoint, you have a chance at two random pieces of level 69 gear. Those are pretty good odds actually, especially since there is no lockout and you can just keep running them. The elite coms you get from them, is just a side bonus.

 

Anyone who thinks that gearing in the new 55 HM FPs is too slow, or the rewards are not good enough.... obviously wasn't around, or at least doesn't remember what gearing in Columi was like through HM FPs when the game launched. ONE piece of columi would drop in each Flashpoint, completely random, could be any class (even one that was not present in the group) and was not tradeable between members. Not to mention, you could only run each flashpoint ONCE per day.

 

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

 

Difficulty levels are about where they should be I think. If you are struggling with adds at the wookie boss in Cademimu, it's because your team is doing it wrong. The tank should hold aggro on the wookie, when the adds come out, they should typically run straight to the healer, and your dps takes the 10 seconds required to AoE them down, and then you go back to focusing dps on the wookie. It's not that difficult as long as both dps burn the adds fast.

 

People (healers and tank especially) need to realize... It's not level 50 anymore. The mitigation that tanks had in the 1.7 world is GONE. They may have these new massive HP pools now, but their mitigation has been severely reduced so they rely on focused attention from the healers a lot more than they used to. A tank's old job, was to hold aggro and absorb as much damage as possible. A tank's new job, is to hold aggro and let himself get beaten up while doing it, and the healer has to keep him up. That also explains why the healing classes got buffed to be a lot more twitchy/fast.

 

If your teams are wiping on HM FP content, it's possible that it's gear, but it's more likely the player at the keyboard either is simply doing it wrong, or not adjusting to the new state of the game, or they are just bad players.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

 

You don't run HM FPs for money. You run then for gear and commendations. If you want money, go do dailies. And what kind of gear are you wearing, that is 23k per wipe??????

 

4. The overall payout for the vs the cost of gear per tokens if the gear goes from 80-140 tokens per item the payout is just not worth the repair bills or time.

 

MMO Endgame gear grinds are just that... a GRIND. If you walked away from a HM FP that took under an hour, with 25+ elite commendations, you could have yourself in full 69 gear in a few days. (weekly caps aside).... The incremental yield on the higher level rewards are that way very much on purpose.

 

i love flashpoints but if they cause more stress then fun i do not see any reason to do them at all. Doing a raid has a far better payout with less cost in repairs.

 

If you are struggling to clear 1 boss in the upgraded HM FPs.... good luck with the repair bills in Tfb and S&V.

[johnpickard]

I think the new difficulty in the FP's is a good thing. Keep in mind too that these are the first few days after they launched, and people arent geared yet, give it a few weeks, or a couple of months and you will all be complaining because they are too easy to faceroll.

 

Its in the name people HARD MODE.

[Thundergulch]

All the upgraded level 55 flashpoints have several bosses that drop blue 66 gear, which is an upgrade to anyone using Campaign/Black Hole across the board, and can even help replace some Hazmat/Dread Guard to help counteract new stat changes/DR yields. They are minor upgrades, but still upgrades nonetheless.

 

The final boss in each flashpoint will drop a piece of non-set bonus Black Market/Elite gear. (69s) And each flashpoint also has a bonus boss that drops the same.

 

So for the roughly 45 minutes (1 hour max if your team is struggling) it takes to run a flashpoint, you have a chance at two random pieces of level 69 gear. Those are pretty good odds actually, especially since there is no lockout and you can just keep running them. The elite coms you get from them, is just a side bonus.

 

Anyone who thinks that gearing in the new 55 HM FPs is too slow, or the rewards are not good enough.... obviously wasn't around, or at least doesn't remember what gearing in Columi was like through HM FPs when the game launched. ONE piece of columi would drop in each Flashpoint, completely random, could be any class (even one that was not present in the group) and was not tradeable between members. Not to mention, you could only run each flashpoint ONCE per day.

 

 

 

Difficulty levels are about where they should be I think. If you are struggling with adds at the wookie boss in Cademimu, it's because your team is doing it wrong. The tank should hold aggro on the wookie, when the adds come out, they should typically run straight to the healer, and your dps takes the 10 seconds required to AoE them down, and then you go back to focusing dps on the wookie. It's not that difficult as long as both dps burn the adds fast.

 

People (healers and tank especially) need to realize... It's not level 50 anymore. The mitigation that tanks had in the 1.7 world is GONE. They may have these new massive HP pools now, but their mitigation has been severely reduced so they rely on focused attention from the healers a lot more than they used to. A tank's old job, was to hold aggro and absorb as much damage as possible. A tank's new job, is to hold aggro and let himself get beaten up while doing it, and the healer has to keep him up. That also explains why the healing classes got buffed to be a lot more twitchy/fast.

 

If your teams are wiping on HM FP content, it's possible that it's gear, but it's more likely the player at the keyboard either is simply doing it wrong, or not adjusting to the new state of the game, or they are just bad players.

 

 

 

You don't run HM FPs for money. You run then for gear and commendations. If you want money, go do dailies. And what kind of gear are you wearing, that is 23k per wipe??????

 

 

 

MMO Endgame gear grinds are just that... a GRIND. If you walked away from a HM FP that took under an hour, with 25+ elite commendations, you could have yourself in full 69 gear in a few days. (weekly caps aside).... The incremental yield on the higher level rewards are that way very much on purpose.

 

 

 

If you are struggling to clear 1 boss in the upgraded HM FPs.... good luck with the repair bills in Tfb and S&V.

 

Well said.

And I do remember the gearing in HM FP's at launch, it was a b**tch! lol.

[XuShaBi]

For the people wanting things to be harder, I have one question for you. What happens when its people like you that only remain in the game and everyone un-subscribes? The hardmodes are really hard, and from a tank standpoint, we are very squishy now. This really needs to be looked at, repair costs are too high, the pay-out is horrid, and the gear drops are even more horrid. So my question to people who want it harder, what class are you? My gear is black hole, campaign, 1 basic comm's and 1 black market piece. And I have been nearly one shotted as a tank by mobs and sometimes bosses.

 

True, tanks are much more squishy but all the mobs are easily doable in 61. The latter part is not an elitist comment. When I see loads of adds in Athiss and Mandalorian Raiders, I just think myself through a sequence of using def cd to keep myself alive. It doesn't take more than a minute to plan it out. I geared myself from BH to BM entirely through these HM 55 FP through pugs.

 

Yes, there are wipes but that's the process of learning. As you know more about it, the better you get. If I were you I wouldn't bet many subs leaving over this. You would be surprised that the people, who sub and expect to play the game long term, are willing to think things through. I bet that the average casual player is not lazy and laid back as you may think.

[Exastify]

While the 55 FPs are harder and require effort, does anyone else think there is a balance issue between trash mobs and bosses?

 

I've found trash mobs to be much more dangerous than bosses. With bosses, you just learn the mechanic and it's easy. With trash mobs (4 strongs + normals all over the place), its not really skill but a race for the dps to kill everything and the tank/healer to survive it. Wiped more times on trash mobs than on bosses themselves.

[Thundergulch]

For the people wanting things to be harder, I have one question for you. What happens when its people like you that only remain in the game and everyone un-subscribes? The hardmodes are really hard, and from a tank standpoint, we are very squishy now. This really needs to be looked at, repair costs are too high, the pay-out is horrid, and the gear drops are even more horrid. So my question to people who want it harder, what class are you? My gear is black hole, campaign, 1 basic comm's and 1 black market piece. And I have been nearly one shotted as a tank by mobs and sometimes bosses.

 

I think the minimum gear required IS BH and Campaign.

And if you're nearly getting 1 shotted by trash and bosses, then maybe you don't have the correct itemization?

Is your gear augmented? With the correct Augments?

There is no way you should be getting almost 1 shotted at all in your gear. It's not the FP that is the problem.

Repair costs are fine where they are at. I'm in almost full 69 gear after last night, and still only pay 5,600 per death.

[Thundergulch]

While the 55 FPs are harder and require effort, does anyone else think there is a balance issue between trash mobs and bosses?

 

I've found trash mobs to be much more dangerous than bosses. With bosses, you just learn the mechanic and it's easy. With trash mobs (4 strongs + normals all over the place), its not really skill but a race for the dps to kill everything and the tank/healer to survive it. Wiped more times on trash mobs than on bosses themselves.

 

Not really, it just takes a group effort to coordinate. Once everyone works as a team it becomes trivial.

Some pulls can be tricky, I agree, but nothing that SHOULD wipe a group of 4 decent players.

[Lusidious]

While the 55 FPs are harder and require effort, does anyone else think there is a balance issue between trash mobs and bosses?

 

I've found trash mobs to be much more dangerous than bosses. With bosses, you just learn the mechanic and it's easy. With trash mobs (4 strongs + normals all over the place), its not really skill but a race for the dps to kill everything and the tank/healer to survive it. Wiped more times on trash mobs than on bosses themselves.

 

Yes, the trash mob's can be harder if the group doesn't know how to handle that group properly. Proper use of CC's and a Tank that knows how to use their abilities to gather up all the mobs in one place for AoE makes a big difference. As a Tank myself in 61/63 gear I haven't had too much trouble with the new HM flashpoints and I've run both Pugs and Guild runs. And yes, Tank are a little squishy right now but that's where knowing your class and how to avoid extra damage comes into play. That's why you have Def cooldowns and Relics with on-use abilities, to help your healer keep you alive.

 

And just a side note. If you've finished the Makeb story on the Imp side then you should know that the fight mechanics for boss fights are going to be more involved and a lot harder. It's just common sense that harder mechanics would also translate to Flashpoint's and Operation's boss fights. Get ready for the fun...

[kirorx]

I agree that they could use bigger payouts

 

That being said I disagree about the difficulty

 

I have been able to pug tank all four in my campaign/black hole gear

 

any easier and when you do get the elite gear they will be entirely too easy

 

For now they feel kinda hard because most of us are in level 50 gear in a level 55 flashpoint

[Mallorik]

I don't think they are too hard.

 

I think the rewards are more than sufficient.

 

I do think that repair costs are over the top.