2.0 Hardmode Flashpoints are not worth the payout.

[Never_Hesitate]

Has anyone else just tried to apply the old strategy on the robot and his master in cademimu or was it just me?

(old strategy: kill the master and the robot dies. now: kill the master and the robot goes enrage)

 

you got me there bioware ^^

[Mallorik]

Has anyone else just tried to apply the old strategy on the robot and his master in cademimu or was it just me?

(old strategy: kill the master and the robot dies. now: kill the master and the robot goes enrage)

 

you got me there bioware ^^

 

The old strategy was never meant to work on hm 55, youre supposed to trap the robot in the circles on the ground and dps him down while hes trapped, then kill the boss. oh and nobody should run through the circles or youll be trapped.

[Never_Hesitate]

The old strategy was never meant to work on hm 55, youre supposed to trap the robot in the circles on the ground and dps him down while hes trapped, then kill the boss. oh and nobody should run through the circles or youll be trapped.

 

I know, but the first time we got there, none of us knew ^^

and we really didn't want to read a guide, one wipe per boss until we figured out the tactics was ok for all

[Levity]

I know, but the first time we got there, none of us knew ^^

and we really didn't want to read a guide, one wipe per boss until we figured out the tactics was ok for all

 

The tactics in the normal version of the fight were all still there. The circles still exist in the normal one, and you still can trap the robot. The difference is they made it a bit harder (hard mode after all...) by giving the boss an enrage mechanic if you don't kill the robot. If you do a SM ops, then start a HM ops, expect the fights to be 100% different because chances are... they are... Just to prove a point, watch the tank fight in EC SM, then watch it in EC HM. There's about 100 more mechanics to it.

[NoFishing]

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

 

I will disagree. Bosses have actual mechanics that you have to pay attention to, but gear isn't the issue. We were clearing these with everyone in 61/63 gear the minute we hit 55. My only complaint is the boss HP is a bit high, so some of them take a long time to kill, but once we are all in full Verpine gear, that shouldn't be a problem.

 

On the wookie boss, lead the adds in front of the flame thrower, he will damage them. He will spawn 2 sets in rapid succession, which should be killed. He won't spawn more until his health starts dropping again when DPS switch back, but DPS should ignore any further adds that spawn and just kill the boss.

 

On the heat beam, healer needs to cleanse the stacking damage buff at 5-6 stacks. If you have a defensive that includes a cleanse (resilience), you can use that also. Fight then becomes relatively trivial to heal, as long as people move away from the little droids when the red circles appear under them.

 

In fact, many of the trash pulls are far harder, and cause far more wipes, than the boss fights. I wouldn't mind seeing a some of the trash tuned down...a lot.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

 

Learn the FPs, educate others on how they should be run, and you will wipe less.

[Senga_J]

The number of people saying 55 hard modes are too hard is astounding to me. PUG's are not the problem. I've tanked the majority of HM 55's in the gear I was able to buy within two days of hitting level 55, in all PUG's, and I didn't have ANY tank gear before then. If it's too hard, read up on the mechanics and make sure everyone knows what to do. If that fails on the third or fourth wipe, quit and save yourself the repair costs. It's that simple (Although I've never had to resort to it because the groups were decent).

 

If anything, hard mode flashpoints should eventually get a nightmare difficulty, because basic/classic gear from the new vendors is enough to faceroll ALL of them. And give us a real payout to match the harder difficulty so complaint threads about not getting enough loot for an EASY flashpoint could be ended.

[Elminster_cs]

So its been a week of doing these new hardmodes and without question they need to be fixed. The cost of repairs, time, and effort level vs the payout is beyond off scale. These are the current problems as i have seen so far. feel free to add what i may have missed.

 

1. Bosses drops BLUE gear really? And dont hold your breath but a whooping 2 elite tokens . what is the point. If i can craft the level of gear given is too low.

 

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

 

4. The overall payout for the vs the cost of gear per tokens if the gear goes from 80-140 tokens per item the payout is just not worth the repair bills or time.

 

i love flashpoints but if they cause more stress then fun i do not see any reason to do them at all. Doing a raid has a far better payout with less cost in repairs.

 

I can do all the FP without a wipe, most of all guild run. I thing you just group with some noob

[Senga_J]

I can do all the FP without a wipe, most of all guild run. I thing you just group with some noob

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the OP got grouped with a bunch of people in tionese, or worse *shudder*...

Edited April 16, 2013 by Senga_J

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

so they are fine if you run them in gear that is better then they drop?

 

Makes sense. LOL

 

A mix of 61 and 66 gear is more than enough to start running the 55 HM FPs. I ran my first as a Tank in 3 pieces of 66 armour and 2 of 61 armour and my rakata earpieces and implants that I got months ago. I have added 2 pieces of 69 armour so far.

 

No they are not, LOL....and 146 is black hole gear. Even if they were set to dread guard does it not strike you as odd that one requires level 146 gear to complete FPs that drop 126 level gear? Is that not the crux of the problem?

 

The bosses don't drop 126 gear. They drop Black Market which is 162 gear. Any 126 drops are the equivalent of blues dropping in 50 FPS and its for companions.

 

Stop trolling

 

Take your own advice.

 

Grow up. ;p

 

Se above.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Are you actually so ignorant?

 

The end boss and the bonus boss drop purple black market items, but every other boss drops blue lvl 53 items

 

They are not bosses, they are just hard mobs. There is no reason why they should also drop Black Market gear.

[Khevar]

Are you actually so ignorant?

 

The end boss and the bonus boss drop purple black market items, but every other boss drops blue lvl 53 items

How long has it been since you ran HM Directive 7 and said, "Ooh, Krel Thak just dropped a Columi Implant, now THAT'S an upgrade"

 

And how about Jindo Krey in False Emperor. That Tionese Mainhand totally didn't go straight to the vendor, right?

 

Remember when you killed Engineer Kels in Boarding Party and were thrilled at that Tionese Earpiece that dropped? No?

 

What do you expect to happen in these newer flashpoints? Every boss drop Black Market? That's just silly.

[Loknido]

So its been a week of doing these new hardmodes and without question they need to be fixed. The cost of repairs, time, and effort level vs the payout is beyond off scale. These are the current problems as i have seen so far. feel free to add what i may have missed.

 

1. Bosses drops BLUE gear really? And dont hold your breath but a whooping 2 elite tokens . what is the point. If i can craft the level of gear given is too low.

 

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

 

4. The overall payout for the vs the cost of gear per tokens if the gear goes from 80-140 tokens per item the payout is just not worth the repair bills or time.

 

i love flashpoints but if they cause more stress then fun i do not see any reason to do them at all. Doing a raid has a far better payout with less cost in repairs.

 

If you're wiping 5 times and complaining about the 66 blue gear, get the 66 crafted gear then try again.

I jumped into these with pugs, i was mostly 61/63 tank with a few 66 purple mods that got from crafting. Wiped only once on my first run and it was because I tried to take on all bots in athiss (before first boss) instead of CC. If you're having a tough time take a second to mark CC targets or talk to your pugs on how to do a boss, it's not that hard really.

[JimG]

If someone's avoiding the level 55 HM flashpoints because of their loot per second played pay out, then I'm venturing a guess they've stayed clear of the Macrobinocular and Seeker Droid stuff too. If you're worried about your payout, then the last two Heroics on the Macrobinocular questline are definitely not for you either.

[bodhisattvasw]

61-66 tank?

 

LOL I tanked them easily with a 126 ranked, then it became noticebly easier at 136, now at 146 it's pure cakewalk, I rarely drop under half health and that's if the healer is asleep.

 

You can easily pug these hard modes these days.

[Jilisipone]

actually EVERY FP I have done drops purple. NOW, you may be talking if they drop the ear or implants, weapon and maybe offhand those are blue/orange drops, but I have been receiving purples on almost all kills in the FP. If you dont believe then look at the drop guides before calling people ignorant there buddy. READ!

 

You may want to slow your roll here before you dig the hole deeper. While I don't agree with the OP and that the current Level 55 Hard Modes are too difficult, they are correct in the fact that only the bonus boss and the end boss guarantee drop Black Market Purples. The other bosses drop orange moddable gear with blue mods (level 66) in them the majority of the time. It's a rare chance at a purple from them if I'm not mistaken.

 

If you are only seeing purple drops from all bosses and doing Hard Mode Flashpoints, then you are doing level 50 Hard Modes, which do in fact drop Black Hole purples from every boss.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Jilisipone

[Primarch_PWnD]

THAT is a hypethetical that will not happen.

 

First... they are not that hard if you are geared properly and the team works the FP correctly. So most people will not quit over HM FPs.

 

Second... many people don't even work them and could care less... so they will never quit because of them.

 

As for rewards for running the content.. meh.. if you don't like it......do something else IMO. Some folks run content for more then just grabbing content for themselves. I'm not a fan of content being strictly a vending machine for gear.

 

So first you tell him that the game's population won't dry up because "no one cares about his issue", then you tell HIM to leave the game....if everyone that you, personally, have told to leave the game left, he'd be absolutely right there'd be no one left, and Bioware won't be thanking you. You do nothing productive, you insult everyone in every thread you post in.

 

Why can't you let people have any sort of opinion. Your posts amount to, "unless you think this game is perfect as-is then you should leave." There is absolutely no room for the feedback Bioware asks for with you stifling every thread with passive aggressive nonsense.

 

I agree with the OP. I shouldnt lose massive amounts of credits just for doing a FP I don't get anything out of.

[Soxbadger]

The problem is that both sides are likely correct.

 

If you are in a pug group that is incapable of completing the flashpoint, doesnt know what they are doing, needs on gear that isnt for them, the HM is probably not a great time investment, especially if you are a dps and the que is long.

 

On the other hand there are those who are in guilds with 20+ lvl 55, who already had characters with fully augmented gear. They have the ability to run these hm multiple times a day, learning the tricks pretty quickly and getting even better gear.

 

Just no great solution to keep everyone happy.

[MillionsKNives]

So first you tell him that the game's population won't dry up because "no one cares about his issue", then you tell HIM to leave the game....if everyone that you, personally, have told to leave the game left, he'd be absolutely right there'd be no one left, and Bioware won't be thanking you. You do nothing productive, you insult everyone in every thread you post in.

 

Why can't you let people have any sort of opinion. Your posts amount to, "unless you think this game is perfect as-is then you should leave." There is absolutely no room for the feedback Bioware asks for with you stifling every thread with passive aggressive nonsense.

 

I agree with the OP. I shouldnt lose massive amounts of credits just for doing a FP I don't get anything out of.

 

Andryah never told him to quit the game, just that if he doesn't think the flashpoints are worth it then don't run them. And is your comment any more productive than the one you're responding to? If you post on a public forum then expect people to reply and disagree with you. In one breath you deride Andryah for apparently not letting others share their opinions, and then go on to say that he shouldn't be giving his.

 

If you are losing "massive amounts of credits" doing these HM FPs then it's a L2P issue, for you or your group. They can be done easily in Black Hole+ gear.

[Khevar]

...

 

I agree with the OP. I shouldnt lose massive amounts of credits just for doing a FP I don't get anything out of.

Here's what I don't understand: "don't get anything out of"

 

Are you in FULL Arkanian / Black Market? No? Then you're going to get something out of it. Even if you don't win a single drop, you still get Elite comms.

 

If you ARE in full Arkanian, and you're still wiping all the time, then you simply need to improve as a player, and coordinate better in the group. If you're wiping on HM 55 FPs, you're going to be wiping on HM 55 Ops as well. Getting better at one will help get better at the other.

 

The whole, "It's too hard" mentality really bugs me. A year ago, end-game was too hard for me too. This didn't drive me to the forums to whinge about it, it drove me to become a better player. Don't you get a sense of accomplishment when you figure out how to defeat X encounter that was previously difficult?

[Kaeg]

Very few times have my groups wiped on 55 HM. Are the people in group geared for HM? Is the group using CC? Do people in your group know the fights? Only time I saw a group wipe multiple times was When healer wasn't gear.

 

As far as gear drops. Would you be happy if the gear was epic and not blue?

 

I enjoy the HM being hard.

 

I don't mean any harm, but in Mandolarian Raiders, almost nothing is CC'able. So far I've paid 200k creds in repair bills trying to finish it twice with nothing dropping for me, and the final boss not going down. Also turrets in that place can easily three shot anyone in the group...ANYONE.

[Thundergulch]

Here's what I don't understand: "don't get anything out of"

 

Are you in FULL Arkanian / Black Market? No? Then you're going to get something out of it. Even if you don't win a single drop, you still get Elite comms.

 

If you ARE in full Arkanian, and you're still wiping all the time, then you simply need to improve as a player, and coordinate better in the group. If you're wiping on HM 55 FPs, you're going to be wiping on HM 55 Ops as well. Getting better at one will help get better at the other.

 

The whole, "It's too hard" mentality really bugs me. A year ago, end-game was too hard for me too. This didn't drive me to the forums to whinge about it, it drove me to become a better player. Don't you get a sense of accomplishment when you figure out how to defeat X encounter that was previously difficult?

 

QFT!

And I still want the OP to prove to us that he's paying 23k PER WIPE in repair costs.

I doubt that even a full set of the best gear in the game costs you 1/2 of that per death, because I'm full Dread Guard with 3 or 4 pieces of Elite comm gear, and my repair bills are a little over 5k per death.

[Lostpenguins]

1. Bosses drops BLUE gear really? And dont hold your breath but a whooping 2 elite tokens . what is the point. If i can craft the level of gear given is too low.

Swing it the other way and crafters complain they can't make anything good.

 

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

What gear level are you in on live? If you're in your "fresh from Makeb" gear, you do understand that's like doing the Vanilla HM's in "fresh from Corellia" gear, right? As someone else pointed out, near the end of Vanilla people were handed Tionese gear, could buy top end gear from the GTN, and sometimes someone way over-geared would join them. Those things don't exist yet for 2.0. The cycle is starting over.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

 

4. The overall payout for the vs the cost of gear per tokens if the gear goes from 80-140 tokens per item the payout is just not worth the repair bills or time.

Repair costs are fine. If you're dying a lot, please go back and see #2 again.

 

i love flashpoints but if they cause more stress then fun i do not see any reason to do them at all. Doing a raid has a far better payout with less cost in repairs.

What "raids" are you doing? If you're doing S&M or TFB SM, you can do the HM's. If you're having problems with the HM's and not the SM's then either you have people in your HM's who are really bad and can't carry their weight, or you're not very good and you're getting carried through SM's.

[PlayLoud]

1. Bosses drops BLUE gear really? And dont hold your breath but a whooping 2 elite tokens . what is the point. If i can craft the level of gear given is too low.

You get Rating 148 drops from most bosses, and Rating 162 drops from the final boss, and bonus boss. Two good drops per flashpoint is fine IMHO. It takes a while to gear up, but you can run them as many times as you want.

 

2. Boss difficulty levels are set too high, perhaps they were set for pts when we all had full gear but no one does now, for example the wookie in cademimu spawns so many death trolls so fast it is near impossible to beat. the heat beam in hammer station cause so many wipes everyone quit. Both times i got que no we did not make it past the first boss.

I haven't had much of a problem so far. Once on Athiss we got stuck, or it took a few attempts, But that wookie has never stopped us. That heat laser on the first boss of Hammer Station is easy. Just cleanse it when it gets to 5. Simple.

 

3. Repair cost are tooo high to make the 10k payout at the end worth anything. The last run caused 5 wipes at a cost of 23k per wipe. so to do this flashpoint and get 0 gear from it i spent over 100k in repairs.

Ok. On THIS one, I completely agree with you. While my character is wealthy, I don't like loosing 50k-100k per Flashpoint. This is very frustrating if one does not get a drop. Other, who don't have as many credits are finding it simply impossible to sustain.

 

4. The overall payout for the vs the cost of gear per tokens if the gear goes from 80-140 tokens per item the payout is just not worth the repair bills or time.

The Elite comms have been fine decent. In the first week, I already have enough to purchase a Shield Generator (140 comms). Maybe they could up the payout a little (or lower the cost of the armor), but I don't think it's THAT bad.

 

i love flashpoints but if they cause more stress then fun i do not see any reason to do them at all. Doing a raid has a far better payout with less cost in repairs.

They are a little stressful now. But then again, so were lvl 50 HMs when you first did them.

Edited April 16, 2013 by PlayLoud

[KrizDaWiz]

At the end of the day though, the repair costs of dying is not worth it. Regardless if people get wiped or not. The way this game is now is like your losing more money then you are gaining in turn pushing away the casual players who dont really give a **** about being the strongest player in the universe. They just want to have fun with other players in the Star Wars universe.

[Khevar]

At the end of the day though, the repair costs of dying is not worth it. Regardless if people get wiped or not. The way this game is now is like your losing more money then you are gaining in turn pushing away the casual players who dont really give a **** about being the strongest player in the universe. They just want to have fun with other players in the Star Wars universe.

I don't really follow this logic either.

 

When I first reached 50 a year ago, I was pretty casual. I wasn't in a guild, operations seemed out of my reach, and I tried a few flashpoints. I did dailies to get gear, which easily funded any wipes on HM FPs.

 

I understand dailies can be boring if done over and over, but there are more variety than we've had before. Belsavis, Ilum, Black Hole, Section X, Makeb, GSI, are all things you can do that make money. If you're not interesting in crafting, you can at least sell mats on the GTN. Heck, Grade 9 mats can be gathered on Makeb and sell at ~5k each!

 

Hard Mode Flashpoints are a gateway to Operations. Early on, they're going to be difficult and may be expensive in terms of wipes. You can pay for these repair costs with a dozen other activities in the game. Once you get better at HM FPs, you won't be wiping and will be ready to try operations.

 

That's how end-game was structured.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Khevar