Skill > All in 2.0

[DarkPharohEclip]

It does not promote being bad or lazy. What it doesn't do is reward people for riding a hamster wheel.

 

Case and point, you and me.

 

If you normally outgear me in terms of PvP gear, that no longer applies (I don' want to talk about how your earned gear blah blah blah...it's the nature of patches and expacs, get over it). Chances are that you strip off all of your PvP gear, slap on a few pieces of PvE to maxamize your stats, then roll into battle.

 

Well, you roll into battle and come across me. You out level me by 10 levels but our stats are pretty darned close. You probably sport about 2K EXP, I sport about 1900. You have about 1650 damage on the high end, I have about 1450 dmg on my high end.

 

Well, the only way I don't kick your butt is if I get out played, and the only way you don't kick my butt is if YOU get outplayed.

 

The massive gear gap is gone. Everyone is sporting 24K HP or more. Are people dying faster? Maybe a litttttttle bit but not much.

 

The ONLY reason people are crying about this is because they either don't realize the stat penalty for playing with PvP gear yet, OR they're waking up to realize that for all of their hamster wheel-ing for PvP gear, they still suck at PvP.

 

That's it. If you lose in PvP, it's because you were beat, not because you were outgeared.

 

If I come across you . I'm still beating you, because I'm better than you. I can tell just by the attitude you have and the way you are talking. You are a lazy gamer that doesn't take time to get his toon set up and don't care to learn how to play their class. You probably QQed in several threads about pre-mades and how gear was ruining the game....

 

Come see me on PofT5 if you dare. I will pm you the character name to contact.

[Darth_Vampirius]

Now you're getting it. See, SWTOR was like this Pre-1.2. Well, there was no bolster, but yeah, it's a bad PvP model. There are a crap ton of CCs, dyanamics lifted straight from WoW, and other than glow sticks offers nothing new....

 

NOW YOU'RE GETTING IT!

 

There's a reason so many PvPers bailed prior to 1.2 if not at 1.2. The only thing SWTOR PVP had going for it were the defense type specs (shield specs, etc.). There were tons of different hybrid builds and they were all REALLY effective. Well, in 1.2 all of that died and the great level 50 PvP gear race was on.

 

Welp, that's all done now. Pre-55, everyone is who is aware of the "you no wear pvp gear in WZs" bug knows that everthing is pretty much even (give or take 10-100 pts in whatever stat which is NOT much of a difference). If you are killed by a 30 something, then you stink! You stink out loud. There should be NO REASON FOR YOU TO LOSE to someone that you out level to such a degree.

 

As for all of the other games doing PvP better, they DO! They DO, DO IT BETTER!

Whatever change you perceived of me, it is completely fictional. My stance has not changed, at all. And BTW, I did leave for a few months after 1.2 came out. It was a mixed bag of fixed stuff and broken stuff. I love how Sorcs were OP for 3 months and have now been totally gimped for 12 months ++, and all the gear they even earned in those 3 months was instantly made irrelevant when recruit gear came in.

 

But, I digress. PVP in SWTOR has no appeal anymore, now that the skill has been removed from play.

[Larry_Dallas]

Read it and weep, Bolster has provided tools for people to become better. Sure gear progression is fun if you like that old ball and wax. But when it comes to PVP when a game needs good players the skill will over trump gear now in 2.0 till 55.

 

I like 2.0 and think this was the best move for this game, now even the casual player can contribute alot more without the gear gap.

 

 

*If you want a gear progression then go raid, or get 55.

 

*If you want competitive PVP then makes some alts and enjoy the ride to 55.

 

*If you can't handle the heat of PVP and the changes, then go to another game that don't care about balance.

 

Bolster has actually balanced PVP in SWTOR, thats right all the classes are viable now.

 

All the crying and complaining is retarded, and TBH this change saved this game and made it 10 times better than before.

 

Sure Bioware catered to the casual, and made the game easier to PVP in with all the classes, and if you are bad now then you was bad before.

 

If people can't handle these great changes then don't let the door hit you where the sun don't shine, cause it can't get any better than this in a mmo.

 

What you think Warcraft has balance?

 

Yea thought so.

 

 

/fin

 

Well said.

[Ossos]

If I come across you . I'm still beating you, because I'm better than you. I can tell just by the attitude you have and the way you are talking. You are a lazy gamer that doesn't take time to get his toon set up and don't care to learn how to play their class. You probably QQed in several threads about pre-mades and how gear was ruining the game....

 

Come see me on PofT5 if you dare. I will pm you the character name to contact.

 

Everybody look out! We have a bad @ss here!! You're an assuming and arrogant. How about you search my posts and look for those complaints, you won't find them. See, your arguement is based on an idea that you made up in your head, conviced yourself that I was who you imagined me to be, then you came and LOL...tried to be a tough guy on a forum?! LOOK OUT ER'BODY!

 

That's the difference between SWTOR and WoW...in WoW, you AT LEAST had to win to max out. Here, you just run in a hamster wheel and get your gear...then google to figure out what augments you need to fit.

 

...man, you are really proud of how you have made that wheel spin. Too bad you didn't learn to fight on your way to get that gear.

[Larry_Dallas]

Let's say your argument is true, which it isn't. (Lazy level 30s are now a DOMINANT force in PVP.) But, hypothetically, let's say, for the sake of argument, that your statement is 100% right.

 

Why play SWTOR then? If I want a game that doesn't reward the PVP hamster wheel, there are a ton of games that do it way better than SWTOR. If I want a game that isn't RPG-like in its PVP design, I will just go play one of those other games. Now, if SWTOR actually handled PVP better than DOTA, LOL, Crysis, GW2, Mortal Kombat, StarCraft, Call of Duty, Team Fortress, Awesomenauts, Chess, or Hide and Seek, then we'd be taking a step in the right direction with 2.0 bolster. SWTOR isn't on a level with any of those games in terms of PVP though. So now, SWTOR has tried to shoehorn a mechanic which fits games that don't work like theirs, and it has broken the system. 100% BROKEN.

 

There is no reason to play SWTOR now. None.

 

If the purpose for pvp for you is to seek to attain a mathematical advantage that can hide a skill deficiency as opposed to enjoying competition and seeking to get better, then the answer to your question is that no, there is no reason someone such as yourself should play SWTOR anymore. Sayonara.

[DarkPharohEclip]

Everybody look out! We have a bad @ss here!! You're an assuming and arrogant. How about you search my posts and look for those complaints, you won't find them. See, your arguement is based on an idea that you made up in your head, conviced yourself that I was who you imagined me to be, then you came and LOL...tried to be a tough guy on a forum?! LOOK OUT ER'BODY!

 

That's the difference between SWTOR and WoW...in WoW, you AT LEAST had to win to max out. Here, you just run in a hamster wheel and get your gear...then google to figure out what augments you need to fit.

 

...man, you are really proud of how you have made that wheel spin. Too bad you didn't learn to fight on your way to get that gear.

 

I'm definately no tough guy... I don't like violence at all, I just play games and like pvp and I enjoy being rewarded with something, because it is just that feeling rewarded...

I will tell you one thing, I know how to play my class because I researched it trial and error, played at a "disadvantage" worked my way up.... I played this class so much I know all the ins and outs. I'm just saying that I know I will beat you in a match no matter what gear you have , or what I have bolster or no bolster. I will beat you bare assed naked not even in a warzone.... that is how confident I am that I will beat you.

 

You were already questioning my skills, so come see for yourself if you think you are the better player.

 

I know exactly who you are, you are one of those guys that whined about gear all the time instead of taking your time to learn your class and adjust and then get the gear... You probably gave up on it after losing a few times and went on to pve in the game.

 

This new system feels anything but rewarding... Where is the reward when I can run around naked and pwn everyone? I would rather people be geared up and become more of a challenge for me, than just taking them out in 2-3 hits and wham bam thank you maim... The challenge is gone in this game, there is nothing to it but pressing buttons now.

Edited April 12, 2013 by DarkPharohEclip

[Bloodcharged]

*facepalm* ...there is nothing I can say that won't land me a warning so I'm just going to keep facepalming and then slowly laugh at you.

 

IKR...truth hurts

[Darth_Vampirius]

If the purpose for pvp for you is to seek to attain a mathematical advantage that can hide a skill deficiency as opposed to enjoying competition and seeking to get better, then the answer to your question is that no, there is no reason someone such as yourself should play SWTOR anymore. Sayonara.

Skill deficiency? You mean, hitting 10 skills vs 30 takes more skill? I know it's hard for a lot of carebears to comprehend, but the new system is not a skill-based system, and SWTOR doesn't have skill based mechanics.

 

Bolster =/=skill.

[Kovaos]

Skill deficiency? You mean, hitting 10 skills vs 30 takes more skill? I know it's hard for a lot of carebears to comprehend, but the new system is not a skill-based system, and SWTOR doesn't have skill based mechanics.

 

Bolster =/=skill.

 

Then how does someone win a 1v1 right now?

[DarthBloodloss]

Bolster:

 

1) Bugged

2) Known Issue

3) Was bugged the whole time on PTS and never fixed

4) Devs are aware of points 1-3

5) Devs are currently working on a fix according to dev tracker

 

Remember the Crash-To-Desktop bug after clicking "Play" from a few days ago that they fixed right away?

 

Arguing about Bolster is like arguing that a Crash-To-Desktop is actually bad for the game and should be removed. And then posting 17 threads about it and saying how it ruins the game when you crash. Well...DUH!! lol

[Darth_Vampirius]

Then how does someone win a 1v1 right now?

Old system: Manage Gear + Manage more skills better + correct spec + put time into the toon + Mouse turn.

New System: Take off Gear + Bolster

[DarkPharohEclip]

As far as the OP is concerned there is no skill involved, there is a lack of challenge. Everything is taken out easily and in a few hits. I know, I am like a god now in pvp. Where before it was more of a challenge now it is simplistic...

 

i guess that is what some of these people wanted though a dumbed down easy version of pvp. It's too easy, it's a joke, and there is lil to no reward or feel of any real challenge.

 

They should have just created a server for the lazy's of this game to go to, where skill doesn't matter, challenge does not matter, knowledge of class does not matter, gear does not matter....

 

Just go in and pwn with no gear, naked, or **** gear it don't matter because whatever it is you don't have to worry..bc you will either kill the other guy in a few hits or they kill you in 2-3 hits.

Edited April 12, 2013 by DarkPharohEclip

[Kovaos]

Old system: Manage Gear + Manage more skills better + correct spec + put time into the toon + Mouse turn.

New System: Take off Gear + Bolster

 

sigh If you have 2 marauders at 100% health and have the same stats who wins?

 

If a bolstered gunny commando kills a bolstered lightening sorc 1v1 how did he do it?

Edited April 12, 2013 by Kovaos

[Darth_Vampirius]

sigh If you have 2 marauders at 100% health and have the same stats who wins?

 

If a bolstered gunny commando kills a bolstered TK sage 1v1 how did he do it?

The gunny commando just got buffed, so he wins because his class has better CC. But honestly, it is hard to find two characters in the exact same stats now, because of how screwed up bolster is.

 

At the end of the day, one could argue that mouse turning = skill. But really, half the classes in SWTOR mouse turn themselves though.

[painterwhit]

If the purpose for pvp for you is to seek to attain a mathematical advantage that can hide a skill deficiency as opposed to enjoying competition and seeking to get better, then the answer to your question is that no, there is no reason someone such as yourself should play SWTOR anymore. Sayonara.

 

Isn't that what people do for the PvE content? Why should the PvP content be different, considering there are a lot of people that are just as serious about it as there are ops?

 

Quit being scrubs, and go EARN your crap just like people have to do for PvE.

 

Edit: does anyone ever see posts from "pvpers" crying that they want to have top tier gear immediately, when they hit max level, so they can be viable in HM/NiM ops.....NO. Why, because everyone knows you have to put the time in and get the gear necessary to do that crap. Why should it NOT be the same for pvp? For a lot of people that IS their game, and you just slapped all of them in the face by making the gear progression null and void

Edited April 12, 2013 by painterwhit

[Ossos]

I know exactly who you are, you are one of those guys that whined about gear all the time instead of taking your time to learn your class and adjust and then get the gear... You probably gave up on it after losing a few times and went on to pve in the game.

 

This new system feels anything but rewarding... Where is the reward when I can run around naked and pwn everyone? I would rather people be geared up and become more of a challenge for me, than just taking them out in 2-3 hits and wham bam thank you maim... The challenge is gone in this game, there is nothing to it but pressing buttons now.

 

Wrong, try again. See, you made an assumption and you're wrong.

 

As for the second paragraph, you lose all credibility when you say 2-3 hits. You're full of crap. Where's the satisfaction? In winning, winning because you earned it, not winning because you have a gear crutch (see it's my acknowledgement of this that makes you think I give a crap about the gear, I don't.).

 

So, if lets you take on a 2 v1 situation...and you win. Why did you win? Was it because of gear or because the two fools you clowned didn't know what they were doing? Were they a lower level? Did they lose because they didn't optimize said gear? Lots of questions.

 

Same scenario, only with bolster in effect and all parties are partially naked, and wearing PvE pieces. All stats are within 50 of one another (give or take another 50). You win again in this case (the current situation the game is in right now). Did you win due to gear? No. Did you win because you're a much higher level? Possibly. Did you win because the two you fought didn't know what they were doing (they sucked). Again, possibly.

 

Now lets look at Scenario 2 all over again, only the two you beat each had 10 or more levels on you. Did you win because of gear? No. Did you win because you were a higher level and had more available skills? No. Did you win because they sucked? Probably. Did you win because you are really good? Probably.

 

See what I am getting at here? I'm liking the current scenario because it's one of the few situations in ANY MMO in ANY GAME where you can play against someone else and be on completely level footing. It really is Player versus Player. That's what I am liking about it. It's "Who can make a better go at a fight with their respective class".

 

Am I all for gear?! Sure! Give the best PvPers the best gear, but narrow the stat disparity. Or, give everyone F-ing retarded looking gear and give the best PvPers (or the ones who run the hamster wheel the longest) the COOLEST looking gear. OOORRRR....keep it how it was. I don't give a rat's *****. I am appreciating what I'm doing NOW...

 

...and that is seeing what everyone REALLY has in the tank. When it's equal stats, you (the greater you) and me, who is better at what they do in the WZ? There's a lot to be said for that.

 

Back to your 1 and 2 shotting people. I'm sure that's happening, but you and I both know that the people that are being 2-shot are all of the idiots that don't know that their PvP gear can hurt their stats in WZs now...and that's it.

 

If anything you should be pissed that the new PvP gear looks retarded.

[Ossos]

The gunny commando just got buffed, so he wins because his class has better CC. .

 

Yeah, you lost all credibilty right there. Really, you wrote that. That was something that you wrote with full confidence that it was correct. You may have just said "Thyroid grass happy bicycle banana smash!" because it would have made as much F-ing sense.

[DarkPharohEclip]

Wrong, try again. See, you made an assumption and you're wrong.

 

As for the second paragraph, you lose all credibility when you say 2-3 hits. You're full of crap. Where's the satisfaction? In winning, winning because you earned it, not winning because you have a gear crutch (see it's my acknowledgement of this that makes you think I give a crap about the gear, I don't.).

 

So, if lets you take on a 2 v1 situation...and you win. Why did you win? Was it because of gear or because the two fools you clowned didn't know what they were doing? Were they a lower level? Did they lose because they didn't optimize said gear? Lots of questions.

 

Same scenario, only with bolster in effect and all parties are partially naked, and wearing PvE pieces. All stats are within 50 of one another (give or take another 50). You win again in this case (the current situation the game is in right now). Did you win due to gear? No. Did you win because you're a much higher level? Possibly. Did you win because the two you fought didn't know what they were doing (they sucked). Again, possibly.

 

Now lets look at Scenario 2 all over again, only the two you beat each had 10 or more levels on you. Did you win because of gear? No. Did you win because you were a higher level and had more available skills? No. Did you win because they sucked? Probably. Did you win because you are really good? Probably.

 

See what I am getting at here? I'm liking the current scenario because it's one of the few situations in ANY MMO in ANY GAME where you can play against someone else and be on completely level footing. It really is Player versus Player. That's what I am liking about it. It's "Who can make a better go at a fight with their respective class".

 

Am I all for gear?! Sure! Give the best PvPers the best gear, but narrow the stat disparity. Or, give everyone F-ing retarded looking gear and give the best PvPers (or the ones who run the hamster wheel the longest) the COOLEST looking gear. OOORRRR....keep it how it was. I don't give a rat's *****. I am appreciating what I'm doing NOW...

 

...and that is seeing what everyone REALLY has in the tank. When it's equal stats, you (the greater you) and me, who is better at what they do in the WZ? There's a lot to be said for that.

 

Back to your 1 and 2 shotting people. I'm sure that's happening, but you and I both know that the people that are being 2-shot are all of the idiots that don't know that their PvP gear can hurt their stats in WZs now...and that's it.

 

If anything you should be pissed that the new PvP gear looks retarded.

 

Dude , I take people out in 2-3 hits, don't usually have people take me out in 2-3 hits, but it has happened....

Oh, and I am pissed that the new pvp gear looks retarded, the reason for this is because they want you to have to use your cartel coins and buy **** off the CM. I can easily win any 1 vs 1 fight and without gear. I know what I am doing and especially now in the warzones with the way the burst is now.. nobody will stand a chance.

[Kovaos]

The gunny commando just got buffed, so he wins because his class has better CC.

 

What's your definition of skill?

[Kovaos]

Yeah, you lost all credibilty right there. Really, you wrote that. That was something that you wrote with full confidence that it was correct. You may have just said "Thyroid grass happy bicycle banana smash!" because it would have made as much F-ing sense.

 

I didn't want to to say anything...

[Darth_Vampirius]

Yeah, you lost all credibilty right there. Really, you wrote that. That was something that you wrote with full confidence that it was correct. You may have just said "Thyroid grass happy bicycle banana smash!" because it would have made as much F-ing sense.

 

My commando is fine. L2P.

[Caeliux]

Quit being scrubs, and go EARN your crap just like people have to do for PvE.

 

Lol, PVE discussion is that way ----->

 

PVP needs to be treated different than PVE, I don't need to explain that too ya cause it would be a big wall of text.

 

For a lot of people that IS their game, and you just slapped all of them in the face by making the gear progression null and void

 

There still is gear progression at 55, so what the hell are you talking about?

 

Only thing that has changed is brackets and Bolster providing a cushion for people to get better till 55.

 

You need to read the notes, because you are rambling about PVP needing to be like PVE.

 

What?

Edited April 12, 2013 by Caeliux

[Darth_Vampirius]

Isn't that what people do for the PvE content? Why should the PvP content be different, considering there are a lot of people that are just as serious about it as there are ops?

 

Quit being scrubs, and go EARN your crap just like people have to do for PvE.

 

Edit: does anyone ever see posts from "pvpers" crying that they want to have top tier gear immediately, when they hit max level, so they can be viable in HM/NiM ops.....NO. Why, because everyone knows you have to put the time in and get the gear necessary to do that crap. Why should it NOT be the same for pvp? For a lot of people that IS their game, and you just slapped all of them in the face by making the gear progression null and void

Truth. Progression game needs progression.

[painterwhit]

Lol, PVE discussion is that way ----->

 

PVP needs to be treated different than PVE, I don't need to explain that too ya cause it would be a big wall of text.

 

 

 

There still is gear progression at 55, so what the hell are you talking about?

 

Only thing that has changed is brackets and Bolster providing a cushion for people to get better till 55.

 

You need to read the notes, because you are rambling about PVP needing to be like PVE.

 

What?

 

ok, so people that only pvp to level have no gear progression til they hit 55? With the old bolster you need to consistently upgrade your gear or you will be pwned...and people that DID level this way knew that. What is the purpose of gear now? You call it a cushion, I call it being lazy and having a sense of entitlement..."I don't want to work for my stuff. Can't you just give us all the max level stats the whole way, so I don't have to?"

Edited April 12, 2013 by painterwhit

[Larry_Dallas]

Skill deficiency? You mean, hitting 10 skills vs 30 takes more skill? I know it's hard for a lot of carebears to comprehend, but the new system is not a skill-based system, and SWTOR doesn't have skill based mechanics.

 

Bolster =/=skill.

 

If you have 30 tools at your disposal and are consistently losing to people with 10 tools at their disposal absent a gear advantage, then yes, they have more skill then you do.