Money Refund for Servers Being Down

[Burchnall]

Well, actually, OP according to the terms of which you agreed to, this type of downtime is covered and yo uactually have no legal right to complain or demand anything.

 

What's legal and ethically/morally right do not alway co-incide. Slavery for example was legal in many areas of the world for many years. Legal as in allowed by law by the current regime of given areas. Few people would call Slavery ethically or morally, the right thing to do. Especially if you believe in natural-rights or Deontology. Maybe from a very strict utilitarianism standpoint.

 

I think the original poster is talking about what Bioware 'ought' to do to make up their failure to the community to have the servers up during primetime, multiple days in a row is give maybe like 100 cartel coins. It's a small gesture and you can't really buy anything with 100 cartel coins but combine that with the monthly sub allotment and maybe you can get 'something'. Or a few downtime courtesy payouts over a year or two of being a sub might add-up.

 

Helping your players not feel 'bad' about bioware and not having as much 'hurt feelings' along the lines of 'Ohh well, at least we got Cartel Coins ' helps players stay in the game for years. Giving your players "DEAL WITH IT TM" as ppl have said in this forum, is basically trolling in an attempt to make the OP more angry which is just going to encourage people to leave the game. Less people in the game = less money for development of new contet = less frequent updates. Small mmorpgs where the player base runs out/abandons them dies... Just look at the matrix online, etc. Cult following of very loyal players but not enough players = Goodbye! When people troll, they are doing a dis-service to the community and what the original poster is suggesting (compensation in some form) is probably closer to what's morally right than 'DEAL WITH IT TM were not providing a service your paying for but it says in the fine legal print we don't have to give you jack-squat!!! mwhahahahaha!!!!'.

[mentalmackem]

Are you kidding? Maybe you should read the EULA you agreed to. You have NO RIGHT to any of your money back. No right to gratificaition. None.

 

IE -- They aren't failing to do anything they're required to do by EULA terms. Deal with it.

 

This, you agreed to the EULA, I suggest u read it before you demand things you have agreed to not getting.

[KylanJin]

I agree with everyone apart from the guy who started the thread

 

I love this game - yeh so we have some downtime - get over it!

 

**it happens.

[Perhelis]

Good luck getting better elsewhere, if you find game paradise, keep me up on it.

 

 

But does it mean that we should not complain, protest and allow for being treated like old-dying-cash-cow only because everywhere else the situation is also ******? Does it help? Will being quiet improve service and product?

[King_Louis_II]

I love how people gripe on gripers. Of course he has no legal right to anything, but what's wrong with venting once in a while?...especially when you're frustrated. It's like when people complain about the government, then some ******* says "Then move to another country."

Besides, what if BW agrees and gives everyone Cartel Coins (I know, fat chance). Then you'll have Mr. Complainer to thank.

There is nothing wrong with being frustrated, and forums are the place to vent such frustrations. Don't like it? Then stop using forums. (See what I did there? That's called turnabout, kiddies. )

Edited April 11, 2013 by King_Louis_II

[Kilora]

What's legal and ethically/morally right do not alway co-incide. Slavery for example was legal in many areas of the world for many years. Legal as in allowed by law by the current regime of given areas. Few people would call Slavery ethically or morally, the right thing to do. Especially if you believe in natural-rights or Deontology. Maybe from a very strict utilitarianism standpoint.

 

I think the original poster is talking about what Bioware 'ought' to do to make up their failure to the community to have the servers up during primetime, multiple days in a row is give maybe like 100 cartel coins. It's a small gesture and you can't really buy anything with 100 cartel coins but combine that with the monthly sub allotment and maybe you can get 'something'. Or a few downtime courtesy payouts over a year or two of being a sub might add-up.

 

Helping your players not feel 'bad' about bioware and not having as much 'hurt feelings' along the lines of 'Ohh well, at least we got Cartel Coins ' helps players stay in the game for years. Giving your players "DEAL WITH IT TM" as ppl have said in this forum, is basically trolling in an attempt to make the OP more angry which is just going to encourage people to leave the game. Less people in the game = less money for development of new contet = less frequent updates. Small mmorpgs where the player base runs out/abandons them dies... Just look at the matrix online, etc. Cult following of very loyal players but not enough players = Goodbye! When people troll, they are doing a dis-service to the community and what the original poster is suggesting (compensation in some form) is probably closer to what's morally right than 'DEAL WITH IT TM were not providing a service your paying for but it says in the fine legal print we don't have to give you jack-squat!!! mwhahahahaha!!!!'.

 

OH PLEASE! Are you really comparing this to Slavery?

 

Grow up and join the real world. Do you think they actually shut the servers down on purpose? CRAP HAPPENS. You, believe it or not, aren't entitled to ANYTHING. Just because some error happened, they have to give you something or they're being immoral? This is such a joke.

 

Can I start complaining to my power company when I lose power for 5 minutes?

[Shingara]

I dont care, if there is a problem i prefer for them to fix it instead of ignoring it. That said i hope they dont do a rollback.

[DAMossimo]

Why, because you can't read a ToS or EULA? You aren't entitled to anything. And quite frankly, you don't deserve anything.

 

You got a dev post within 10 minutes explaining that there WAS an issue, and they're working on it. End of story.

 

Do you screech at your ISP when you lose power and can't be on your computer? Or the power company because you can't watch tv?

 

The TOS & EULA are legal fallback points; they are not meant to be a company's mission statement nor a basis for which it conducts day to day business.

 

There's typically a big difference between what is "legally right" and "morally right". People today need to learn to see the distinction between these two schools of thought.

[Infernixx]

But does it mean that we should not complain, protest and allow for being treated like old-dying-cash-cow only because everywhere else the situation is also ******? Does it help? Will being quiet improve service and product?

 

Complaining and protesting are perfectly normal for most situations, but there's no point in whining and crying about down-time. It's a necessity of online gaming.

 

Other, more polished, MMOs can, on occasion be down for DAYS at a time. People forget that.

[Burchnall]

And because Ford Built My car so it actually needs oil changes and new tires, brakes, maintenance ..washing... I should get money back from FORd since i paid $38,000 for it..

 

And because MY computer needs reformatting and software updates every now and then and I paid for it i should get money back from Nvidia, Intel, microsoft, Asus, Seagate, Mushkin....and anyone elses parts i bought because i paid for them...

 

and My bank...they should give me money back on my mortgage because my house needed a new roof last year that cost me $9000 because i paid for the house....

 

 

Those are all one-time purchases not long-term service contracts were service is being provided by a company for a client. Poor examples. A better example would be 'I paid insurance for my car and now I got into an accident because of a slippery, unmaintained parkling lot and that parking lot was outside the insurance agency and now your saying that's not covered as its an 'act of god' or 'I paid $90.55 for access to 175 television channels and 56 of the 175 channels are offline/inaccessible'.

 

Op....give your head a shake..

 

I think you might have been shaking your head too much if you dont see the difference between a service contract and a one-time purchase. Bad analogies my firend. Bad analogies.

[CrazyCanukk]

Nice unbiased comment from an EA battlelog moderator...

 

On topic I do think they should be doing something to improve customer relations when the unexpected (or becoming more expected now) happens and the servers go down for a number of hours.

 

Maybe asking for money back is a bit too much but the guy who says we should get something like free cartel coins is on the ball. Or maybe some comms even?

 

EX EA battlelog moderator.

 

I left that job now..Im too busy at work to spend my little down time i get anymore chasing trolls and griefers..

 

maybe i'll go back when things cool down...but the next year is going to be very hectic. ..

 

Im just on a "work from home" day today..i have stuff working on my Pc and surfing the forums on my laptop.

[ronniehenlau]

Do you screech at your ISP when you lose power and can't be on your computer? Or the power company because you can't watch tv?

 

My ISP usually tells me what the problem is. Same for my power company. Last time I had a power failure where I live, it took them 15 minutes to update their website that there was issues with a certain center, and the power was out for this and that area. It also told me 'The power should be restored within 3 hours'. Even if they had said 'The power should be restored by 24 hours' its fine. **** happens, that's ok. What's not ok, is keeping customers in the dark regarding what is actually happening. The firm I work in deliver a hosted application for our customers, if this application goes down, we send out emails to all our customers, we start up an emergency bridge, send out an ETA ASAP (usually within 10-15 minutes after the emergency bridge has started).

 

While I do appreciate that amber is trying to keep us updated, and I know I can't blame neither Amber, Courtney nor Eric for this downtime or the lack of communication, but whoever is responsible for their infrastructure have got to have a clue on -what- is the problem. I refuse to believe that 1-1.5 hours of investigation have yielded 0 results, and they must by now know what the problem is. If you know what the problem is, you have an ETA. You dont have a definitive time for the fix, but you have an ETA.

[CrazyCanukk]

Those are all one-time purchases not long-term service contracts were service is being provided by a company for a client. Poor examples. A better example would be 'I paid insurance for my car and now I got into an accident because of a slippery, unmaintained parkling lot and that parking lot was outside the insurance agency and now your saying that's not covered as its an 'act of god' or 'I paid $90.55 for access to 175 television channels and 56 of the 175 channels are offline/inaccessible'.

 

 

 

I think you might have been shaking your head too much if you dont see the difference between a service contract and a one-time purchase. Bad analogies my firend. Bad analogies.

 

One time purchase??

 

tell that to the 5 year loan on the car or the 25 year mortgage on the house...lol.

 

I'd call 25 years into a mortgage and 5 years into a car pretty long term...

Edited April 11, 2013 by CrazyCanukk

[Burchnall]

OH PLEASE! Are you really comparing this to Slavery?

 

Grow up and join the real world. Do you think they actually shut the servers down on purpose? CRAP HAPPENS. You, believe it or not, aren't entitled to ANYTHING. Just because some error happened, they have to give you something or they're being immoral? This is such a joke.

 

Can I start complaining to my power company when I lose power for 5 minutes?

 

The example given was an illustration of the difference between what's legally right and what's morally or ethically right. There was no comparison made between servers being down and slavery. Perhaps if you had better reading comprehension or bothered to read the paragraph, you could have provided some intelligent critique. Thanks for trying though.

[Xeperi]

Good luck getting better elsewhere, if you find game paradise, keep me up on it.

 

http://highergroundnwn.net/ and after the one time purchase of $10.00 it is totally and completely free. Servers are never down, new content is constantly being developed.

 

The reason why corporations in general really don't give a crap about their customers is because of all the idiots saying, "shh don't complain".

 

I have been playing swtor for a little more than a week and EVERY DAY there are major issues, either with logging in (security question- one time pw that doesn't work), or the game being down for maintenance during est prime time, or just an outright server fail like today.

 

Seriously, I have never seen such horrible service anywhere with any product I have ever bought.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Xeperi

[Perhelis]

http://highergroundnwn.net/ The reason why corporations in general really don't give a crap about their customers is because of all the idiots saying, "shh don't complain".

 

That is EXACTLY my point!! If we do not complain we will never get better services or better customer support. If we agree to take crap every time something is not right, then we will be feed with crap!

Edited April 11, 2013 by Perhelis

[Burchnall]

One time purchase??

 

tell that to the 5 year loan on the car or the 25 year mortgage on the house...lol.

 

I'd call 25 years into a mortgage and 5 years into a car pretty long term...

 

Yes, when you buy a car, you actually are paying the car company 100% of the purchase price up front through a third party-agency. A loan-service or bank generally. Mazda, Ford or whomever receives $38k (as in your example) for the car the day you buy it. Thus its a one-time purchase as far as the car company is concerned.

 

Your service-contract is with the bank/loan agency and not Mazda.

 

Same goes for a house. When you purchase a house on the mortgage the seller doesn't recieve your monthly installments of $1,000.00. The bank receives it and the bank has already paid the Seller form whom you bought the house from in full the total purchase cost. IE The bank provided the Seller with $400k.

[Kilora]

The example given was an illustration of the difference between what's legally right and what's morally or ethically right. There was no comparison made between servers being down and slavery. Perhaps if you had better reading comprehension or bothered to read the paragraph, you could have provided some intelligent critique. Thanks for trying though.

 

And we're pointing out that this is ridiculous.

 

How is it morally unsound for a company to NOT hand over rewards whenever there is an issue? Do you realize how many companies would be bankrupt if this were the case? Maybe YOU should show some reading comprehension -- it doesn't matter what is morally right. I think it's rather immoral to complain about something that is most likely a MISTAKE. Because of course, you've never made one of those.

 

To the other person who responded to me -- THAT I can agree with. I'm satisfied with the post acknowledging the issue, but they definitely should be saying more. An ETA, or an idea of whats wrong -- but I think Amber/Eric/Courtney may not be educated enough in DevOps stuff (absolutely NOT meant to be mean/rude), and it might take them too long to explain it, and have them put the proper spin on it.

 

I can't imagine trying to explain to our Online Specialist why our Oracle server is freaking out -- especially when I have no clue, because Oracle updated it and caused it to freak out.

[Sankatenko]

It is all well and good that people say "just put up with it" but I would like not a refund of money but a refund of hours lost through constant down times! Bio are quick enough to make sure they take my money to the second of it being due so why not refund hours that I cannot play? Fair is fair.

[Malastare]

Yes, of course - you all can quote licenses etc... but it really is not about "hard wording". It is only about how we are being treated. Every player can take only as much before one goes to another game. Especially that the choice is vast. And this is not how you build a steady and happy body of players and develop any product. This is how you actually lose customers... and one thing is for sure: happy customer = paying customer....

 

While I'm sure no game company is ever going to take this as an official stance:

 

Some customers should be ignored.

 

Every MMO has downtime. Practically every online service has downtime. If you are old enough to play this game, you should already know this. At the very least: You were told this, very explicitly in the license... just like every other MMO or online service.

 

This isn't about lost money. As pointed out repeatedly, the money is only $0.02/hour. You didn't even take thirty seconds to figure that out.... because you didn't actually care about the money. You wanted something. And something happened that kept you from getting it. And instead of being an adult and trying to understand the situation, you started whining... perhaps because you feel that you should get whatever you want, regardless of anyone else or other larger situations. At the very least, you feel like you deserve a new bicycle because it rained on your birthday. You and I apparently had very different childhoods.

 

Bioware should ignore you.

 

Not because you're just one customer, or because you are demanding things that aren't covered by the license. They should ignore you because they shouldn't encourage this sort of selfish behavior, and because it will give you a chance to learn that the world doesn't cater to your whims and that sometimes you don't get what you want and no amount of whining will change that.

[FrauPerchta]

OP have you played many MMOs? I have, SWTOR has very little down time. I've been in a few MMOs where all the servers would be down for days at a time. And patches were so often totally not ready for prime time that the rule was Never Play On Patch Day as very often when you did you would just get rolled back to pre-patch status so the fixed patch/update could be published. Folks were constantly complaining about the loss of 6+ hours of play time during which of course they had scored some "uber" piece of gear.

 

I'll take SWTOR's downtime over any other MMO I've every played.

 

Just so you know my MMO gaming started with Meridian 59 and Ultima Online, day one subscriber to both. '96 or '97 IIRC.

[Kilora]

While I'm sure no game company is ever going to take this as an official stance:

 

Some customers should be ignored.

 

Every MMO has downtime. Practically every online service has downtime. If you are old enough to play this game, you should already know this. At the very least: You were told this, very explicitly in the license... just like every other MMO or online service.

 

This isn't about lost money. As pointed out repeatedly, the money is only $0.02/hour. You didn't even take thirty seconds to figure that out.... because you didn't actually care about the money. You wanted something. And something happened that kept you from getting it. And instead of being an adult and trying to understand the situation, you started whining... perhaps because you feel that you should get whatever you want, regardless of anyone else or other larger situations. At the very least, you feel like you deserve a new bicycle because it rained on your birthday. You and I apparently had very different childhoods.

 

Bioware should ignore you.

 

Not because you're just one customer, or because you are demanding things that aren't covered by the license. They should ignore you because they shouldn't encourage this sort of selfish behavior, and because it will give you a chance to learn that the world doesn't cater to your whims and that sometimes you don't get what you want and no amount of whining will change that.

 

QFT. /Signed

[Skaol-dirtyd]

AGREED!!

 

 

And because Ford Built My car so it actually needs oil changes and new tires, brakes, maintenance ..washing... I should get money back from FORd since i paid $38,000 for it..

 

And because MY computer needs reformatting and software updates every now and then and I paid for it i should get money back from Nvidia, Intel, microsoft, Asus, Seagate, Mushkin....and anyone elses parts i bought because i paid for them...

 

and My bank...they should give me money back on my mortgage because my house needed a new roof last year that cost me $9000 because i paid for the house....

 

Op....give your head a shake..

 

 

I have to say these are some of the worst analogies I have seen someone try to use.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Skaol-dirtyd

[King_Louis_II]

http://highergroundnwn.net/

The reason why corporations in general really don't give a crap about their customers is because of all the idiots saying, "shh don't complain".

 

I agree, but it occurs to me why people flame others that complain. (Hang with me on this) Imagine we are all starving people at the end of the world (easy, right?). Nobody would want to listen to someone complain about the fact that everyone is starving. I know we're starving, you know we're starving..."Just shut up about it so I don't have to think about it" I would think. Problem is, nobody is looking for food so we all continue to starve.

 

Now if you hung with me on that, I think you'll see a little moral to the story. Or not...I tend to ramble about nonsensical things.

[Infernixx]

That is EXACTLY my point!! If we do not complain we will never get better services or better customer support. If we agree to take crap every time something is not right, then we will be feed with crap!

 

Oh, you poor thing. You actually think that 'complaining' effects business and money decisions.

 

Sigh.

 

When people leave the game, stop buying CM stuff, unsub in huge numbers and go find a new game, THEN they'll pay attention to what's wanted.

 

Complaining has ZERO impact on mega corporations. They'll smile and make empty platitudes, and completely ignore what you're angry about.

 

That's why people lol at the complainers. Because you actually think that complaining has an impact on anything.