Bolster = end of swtor PvP?

[Twin]

PvE endgame is gear based. Try running HM OPs naked. See how that works out for you all.

PvP endgame is gear based. Try running RWZs naked. See how that works out for you all.

 

Ofc PvE is gear based and has progression - noone ever argued against that.

 

And regarding RWZ, Enlighten us; How much more stats do you get with the new pvp gear compared to being bolstered naked then?

[Avicii]

Lol when you first PvP'd in your first MMO why did you love it? In WoW if you PvP'd when leveling up you got NO experience and really no rewards, yet the brackets were allows full of people pvping.

 

I love the competition period, I will PvP in any game if it is fun the gear progression is whatever. I want to gear up so I am on even footing with every one else.

 

I realize this is not how most people feel these days and that a lot of people are like old twinks who really just want a gear gap to stomp people and pat themselves on the back. But times are changing MMOs are targeting casual players that's the bottom line no amount of complaining changes that. Look at Rift they have a bolster in place very similar to SWTOR and people still PvP and their PvP is not neary as engaging.

 

Generally this is the typical overreaction by people, is the new system really worse then the buy a bag and pray your gears in there? Did that provide your carrot or did it piss you off someone else could get luck and hit the bag lotto and gear up in half the time as you? Then stomp people as a 50 vs a level 10?

 

Really though when you started pvping was it because you wanted better gear? I am curious as I tend to assume most people started pvping in a MMO at lower then max level and fell in love with the competition however it seems like the forums are more concerned about what I get for it. There is nothing better then a nail biting 1-1 Huttball and you pull the ball carry with 10 secs left back and kill him to save the game IMO.

 

** I apologize for going off on a tangent it's 5:45 am still waking up! Also looking for like minded PvPers on the Baston

[Sweeet]

I love to PvP but this is really getting old. Going from gear grind to none at all is silly. They should have at least kept some what of a grind on PvP servers at least. At this point I'm not even sure what my comms are for. I can't buy anything with them that I can really use. I don't care anymore, this is exhausting bouncing around from...whatever who cares. I get the feeling they don't want hardcore pvpers in the game period and most have left anyway. So this was a way to weed the last of us out. The game is centered around making people who aren't very good At the game unaware they aren't good at the game.

 

And where are you getting this misinformation? It has been stated multiple times that PvP gear will matter at 55, even in this very thread. If you want to be competitive at 55, you will indeed need to grind out coms for PvP gear. If not you will be sub-par, it's as simple as that.

 

So much misinformation spreading around lately...more than usual.

[Sweeet]

Ofc PvE is gear based and has progression - noone ever argued against that.

 

And regarding RWZ, Enlighten us; How much more stats do you get with the new pvp gear compared to being bolstered naked then?

 

Naked you get what 23.5k? With Level 55 PvP gear you will have around 29k... Which is why people are getting 4-shot. They are putting out 55 damage, whilst not having 55 gear with the extra endurance. Also remember empty Relic slots are giving main stats which they are not supposed to, which is also why the damage is inflated. When they patch the Reilc slot bug, damage should theoretically go down.

[bodhisattvasw]

No they should not, and this is exactly what is broken in many MMO PVP. Warhammer was disastrously broken in PVP because of gear gaps, and Hickman knows this full and well. It basically destroyed the game. Imagine having characters in the game that can take on 5-6 other people quite easily, and how this will deflate the fun for virtually anyone trying to compete.

 

Rift had similar issues, and desperately tried to fix them - and never really accomplished this. You had RR80 people instantly killing RR40 people that did nothing wrong other than try to play the game as it was intended to be played. They lost hundreds of thousands of players because of the insane gear gap between new max level players, and existing ones. This of course was FUN for the RR80's, stomping face of the newbs. But it drove off important paying customers.

 

SWTOR had a huge issue with gear gap and level early on. Remember? Some folks rushed to 50, and were placed in warzones with level 10's. It was not pretty, and drove off legions of customers. It is one of the reasons I quite the game early on, and I guarantee hundreds of thousands quit for this reason. They added in a bracket for 50's which solved PART of the issue. But the bolster still was not effective enough to compensate. I suspect the reason for the rage right now is a lot of people that were used to stomping face, aren't doing it any longer. People that relied on gear to faceroll, aren't facerolling anymore, and are angry.

 

A lot of hack-like guilds with premades are having immense trouble facerolling in 50+ PVP right now. On my server it was hilarious to watch 'Smell my Finger' get their arses handed to them all last night in 50+ PVP. Where the bolster is effective, and working. However these same guys were destroying pre-50 PVP last night because they 'abused' the naked mechanics. The answer to cheaters like this is a 'normalization', and then skill becomes a primary factor, and people feel SATISFIED over battles. When it is gear based, people don't feel satisfied because there are always kiddies that mini-max gear to take advantage of others.

 

Guildwars2 and other MMO's are setting the standard with normalized PVP and Cosmetic gear advances. Putting the fun and challenge back into PVP by making it skill based, rather than gear based.

[Technohic]

Guildwars2 and other MMO's are setting the standard with normalized PVP and Cosmetic gear advances. Putting the fun and challenge back into PVP by making it skill based, rather than gear based.

 

I hear Guildwars has a lot more variety of the type of PvP though; which kind of helps its cause; or am I mistaken? Pretty much here, all we have is 5 warzones; all with the same 8 man team set up; and an occasional free for all event, and a free for all area no one goes to.

 

What I am saying is; is the carrot on the stick is what got people to participate in the same 5 warzones over and over again. Overall PvP specific content continues to shrink.

[Chimerako]

Naked you get what 23.5k? With Level 55 PvP gear you will have around 29k... Which is why people are getting 4-shot. They are putting out 55 damage, whilst not having 55 gear with the extra endurance. Also remember empty Relic slots are giving main stats which they are not supposed to, which is also why the damage is inflated. When they patch the Reilc slot bug, damage should theoretically go down.

 

I didn't think I needed to specify I was refering to levels 1 through 54. Unless I missed something I can't buy 55 gear until I'm 55 so what am I doing with all the PvP comms prior to 55? I get that they wanted the gap smaller but if your playing basketball in dress shoes it stands to reason you would play better in basketball shoes. Whether your good or bad at basketball should relate to your actual skill but gear should still be a factor that being said pre 55 as well as post 55 should still have some form of PvP gear. What makes PvP suddenly special once you hit 55? Why does gear matter then and not before.

[TheXiaChang]

Low levels do PVP to get gear.. PVP should work where you suck at first gear wise..There is a fine line the creators have to walk where gear is 40% and skill is 60%. The problem with PVP now is the creators are doing what most schools and other organizations are doing to kids.. They are afraid to have them fail so they give them everything they need so their little feelings wont get hurt.. Just look at the number of people who leave during a PVP game, there is no commitment to your team or the game, they run away as soon as it gets hard.. it is just silly. There should be NO bolster system at all. There should be 10 level tiers where you only go in with those within that 10 levels.. All gear should be able to be traded in for the next tier..It is ridiculous that they are requiring 100's of hours to get EWH and now we can just flush it. It cannot be traded in or anything.. We should at least be able to trade it in for the new low level gear and not be forced to rehash what we have already done. It is not giving those with EWH a huge advantage but it is respecting the fact they did the work to get it.. The current system in no way respects the work the players put in to move themselves forward.. Notice in PVE you can turn in your unassembled stuff.. And all PVE people have to do is show up and fight, they don't have to run the same instance 1000x before they even have hopes of getting their piece of gear and yet they cater to them.

 

and if there is no bolster why would low levels do pvp?

[Odyseus]

I'm afraid this is the nail in the coffin for me. I've been the biggest swtor apologist since day one, I really had faith in bioware getting this game right. However pleasing it's contemporary PVP base has been thrown out the window. I've never played an MMO where so many kids have infiltrated and successfully killed a MMO because they want it to resemble the Nintendo Gameboy experience they grew up playing. At this point I'm just holding out until Blizzard releases Titan, after that this game will be a ghost town anyway. Edited April 10, 2013 by Odyseus

[Kovaos]

I'm afraid this is the nail in the coffin for me. I've been the biggest swtor apologist since day one, I really had faith in bioware getting this game right. However pleasing it's contemporary PVP base has been thrown out the window. I've never played an MMO where so many kids have infiltrated and successfully killed a MMO because they want it to resemble the Nintendo Gameboy experience they grew up playing. At this point I'm just holding out until Blizzard releases Titan, after that this game will be a ghost town anyway.

 

ESO is coming out this year as well. I'm holding out here until then.

[Arutar]

No they should not, and this is exactly what is broken in many MMO PVP. Warhammer was disastrously broken in PVP because of gear gaps, and Hickman knows this full and well.

 

Even disregarding your slight exageration - how do people got this "gear gap" in SWTOR PVP?

 

Did the roflstomp PVP gear fall from the sky or did you have to buy it for real money?

 

Oh, no, wait:

 

You had to do PVP to constantly progress your PVP gear. What is unfair about this? Everyone who spends time PVPing will automatically get good PVP gear. (The same goes for PVE).

 

So the only real gap is between people who regularly do pvp and those who dont (and then complain that they want the same for free).

 

Now you could of course argue that awarding better gear by spending time doing a certain activity is dumb. But since this is an MMORPG, this makes as much sense as complainig about Headshots in an FPS.

 

All we do (whether PVP or PVE player) is spent time to get better gear. Unless you are in a good ranked WZ team or doring serious endgame raiding, neither getting good PVP nor PVP gear takes even much skill.

[jakeott]

2 different things going on in your post, one is, bolster is just bugged right now. This is gonna be fixed...*hope*

So no more twoshotting wh 50s with my lvl 30 Sin.

 

But bolster in general is brilliant, that way i can still solo keyboardturning 50 baddies in wh gear with my lvl 30 Sin because im just better. (like i did yesterday with a 50 marauder, i felt sorry for him after the 3rd time in a row, he was turning slower than a npc and didnt even touch me?)

 

 

No. Just baddies do. Good players dont give a **** and like competition.

 

I never got this "hard work" thing, u playing a game remember? lol at hard work. And on my server everyone who pvps has elite wh or close to, so "nobody stands out".

 

 

...that means that they didnt pop any cds, didnt react in time, etc. i know lots of people that i never could 3 shot, ever, no matter the statsdifference.

That again implies that you expect your gear to carry you, maybe he was just better? Again, "HARD EARNED" - lol.

 

Wait for the patch, maybe they fix bolster to the point where going naked isnt the best way of gearing and everybody has more or less the same stats. But i bet you will still complain that your hard earned gear didnt save you from this lvl 30 guy just outplaying you.

 

This is a good post.

[Kovaos]

Wait for the patch, maybe they fix bolster to the point where going naked isnt the best way of gearing and everybody has more or less the same stats. But i bet you will still complain that your hard earned gear didnt save you from this lvl 30 guy just outplaying you.

 

Oh snap!

 

/agreed

[KEKHAN]

I really don't see the point of PvP if everyone is exactly the same, 2 Maras fighting each other is who hits the buttons first? some classes are better than other in terms of abilities so having the same stats makes it pointless playing one class when you can just play for instance a concealment operative, who can backstab you onto the floor stab you twice before you can react then disappear and then do the same again, if the other class cant hit them harder then their going to loose.

 

To note: I have a concealment operative that's just an example.

[Philastra]

Don't understand why ppl are upset, almost everyone wanted a more Skill based PVP in SWTOR. Well we have it even with it busted it's still more balanced than it was before. I for one am enjoying PVP (naked or not), it's nice that gear isn't such a crutch anymore and skill will prevail.

[Kovaos]

I really don't see the point of PvP if everyone is exactly the same, 2 Maras fighting each other is who hits the buttons first? some classes are better than other in terms of abilities so having the same stats makes it pointless playing one class when you can just play for instance a concealment operative, who can backstab you onto the floor stab you twice before you can react then disappear and then do the same again, if the other class cant hit them harder then their going to loose.

 

To note: I have a concealment operative that's just an example.

 

Uhhhh...no? Are you under the impression when someone beats you it's because they've smashed their buttons faster or they have better gear?

[throapy]

and if there is no bolster why would low levels do pvp?

 

Umm we always have, so there was no reason to make bad/ low level players into gods.

[Locksley]

I looked at a lower level dude than I and saw he had greens in and i thought ah crap here we go, then I noticed he had higher expertise than I and I had wh and ewh gear on, I thought ***. Now its not the guys fault. So I tried it out in my gear and did less than normal. So I got naked and bam result higher expertise and general stats.

So I recon all folk with wh and ewh just get naked its obvious pvp wasnt tested and the folk messing with it do it in a tea break whilst they durp around. In the end I decided to just go do dailies and stay away from pvp which is a shame as I really enjoyed it prior.

[UltimateKrucible]

Don't understand why ppl are upset, almost everyone wanted a more Skill based PVP in SWTOR. Well we have it even with it busted it's still more balanced than it was before. I for one am enjoying PVP (naked or not), it's nice that gear isn't such a crutch anymore and skill will prevail.

 

But the point is this is unskilled lolsmash PvP for all.

 

At the moment you have people routinely doing 7-9k crits and guys dying in 4 GCD. It's insanely unskilled to push 4 buttons and floor someone.

 

You may not like it - but when 2 EWH went up against each other you either played with skill or died.

[throapy]

And where can i buy stuff for planetary comms, and what stuff? (It's an honest question, im not 100% up2date with everything in 2.0 yet)

 

 

 

I suppose nothing shows my ability to play more then what you describe....however, that was not what i was talking about. At all.

 

Im talking about progression, pure and simple. I have no need to show off....i just want my character(s) to progress in some way the more i play with them. A good step in the right direction of what i talk about is the new Achievment system...the more i pvp, the more i progress in those pvp achievments...we need much more basic stuff like that if we are to render gear obsolete in warzones. More dailies and stuff that gives us a reason other then "pvp for the sake of pvp".

 

We need other ways to get rewarded, if gear is no longer a useful reward. We need new stuff happening to our toons...thats what progression is for me.

 

Actually, did you even tracking play it yet? YOU sound like the typical baddie..... Bolster is great I can 3 shot a 50... I must be good. Lol no. Bolster sucks. The grind was fine fix it or many of us are gone. And we aren't you *********** f2p base

[Sweeet]

I didn't think I needed to specify I was refering to levels 1 through 54. Unless I missed something I can't buy 55 gear until I'm 55 so what am I doing with all the PvP comms prior to 55? I get that they wanted the gap smaller but if your playing basketball in dress shoes it stands to reason you would play better in basketball shoes. Whether your good or bad at basketball should relate to your actual skill but gear should still be a factor that being said pre 55 as well as post 55 should still have some form of PvP gear. What makes PvP suddenly special once you hit 55? Why does gear matter then and not before.

 

For starters, the level 20 and 40 PvP vendors are still in Coruscant and Dromund Kaas.... So you can still get the gear if you want to.

 

But now you don't “need” to for pre-55 PvP, it means you can actually afford to buy WZ health packs and adrenals in abundance now, which is one thing that has always really miffed me off about PvP in general, not being able to get enough of them whilst levelling up. Now I can save up more than enough to last me for weeks, if not months whilst I'm grinding out my PvP gear at 55. Also as you can start acquiring Ranked WZ commendations at Valour level 40 still, so you should be able to cap yourself out at 4500 easily now by the time you hit level 55.

 

The main reason why gear matters at 55 and not before, is to make it competitive for people who want to take end-game PvP seriously. The other reason is before 55, everyone is levelling and will be at different gear levels, which is why it’s so important to bolster everyone to the same point to make PvP a fun experience still. The old system was extrmemly frusting getting your butt handed to you by level 40+ players with decent gear, that is no longer a problem.

 

Everyone needs their Carrot on a stick, even the PvP’ers, just like the gear progression in PVE. PvP gear still matters and a PvP geared player of equal skill will still beat a PVE geared player at 55 in a WZ, they just won’t wreck them anymore. The PVE player will stand a chance if the PvP player messes up.

 

Everything is going to be OK, I really wish people would stop getting worked up over an abundance of misinformation. Someone screams “the sky is falling!” and you guys panic and make posts like “the sky is falling!” without actually doing your own research.... Well it’s not, the sky is very much staying where it is. If anything, the sky is in the best place it’s been in a long time. The Bolster bug may not show that currently, but I can assure you that when it’s fixed, PvP will be in a very good place.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Sweeet

[throapy]

For Gods sake...all of this hysteria about the bolster system is just ridiculous. Its been acknowledged that it didnt go live as intended. Why dont we wait to see what the actual finished idea BW had for the system is before calling quits on pvp in this game ey?

 

 

Because the very idea of a bolster system is BS. Just more socialist bull sheet where some ashole wants sum thing for free. Stop being lazy and work for your stuff people. And yes that's all it is is,laziness.

[throapy]

Don't understand why ppl are upset, almost everyone wanted a more Skill based PVP in SWTOR. Well we have it even with it busted it's still more balanced than it was before. I for one am enjoying PVP (naked or not), it's nice that gear isn't such a crutch anymore and skill will prevail.

 

And there folks is the problem. Dumases like this that think gear is a crutch and that in any world that a 30 should be on the same level,as a 50 is a good thing. If you truly believe that a 30 should be able to stand toe to toe with a 50 then, well, your a dumb as and there is nothing anyone can do to fix you.

[Sweeet]

Because the very idea of a bolster system is BS. Just more socialist bull sheet where some ashole wants sum thing for free. Stop being lazy and work for your stuff people. And yes that's all it is is,laziness.

 

You seem to be under the impression PVE players will get a free ride at 55... They won't, PvP geared players will still beat PVE geared players, just not as badly as before. It means PVE players can come into a WZ to earn PvP gear without being totally useless, that is a good thing for everyone.

 

Stop being a baby and crying over something you obviously understand very little about.

[Philastra]

And there folks is the problem. Dumases like this that think gear is a crutch and that in any world that a 30 should be on the same level,as a 50 is a good thing. If you truly believe that a 30 should be able to stand toe to toe with a 50 then, well, your a dumb as and there is nothing anyone can do to fix you.

 

Nice insults, and I guess you cant crush ppl anymore because your gear is better? Beyond that they are going to fix it, and in all reality if you look past your ego and just play youll still have a good time. Although I have a suspicion you got owned by a lowbie and it hurt your EPEEN. Get over it .

 

Edit: I just looked at your past posts ...you like to complain and insult ppl a lot, lookslike your keeping the status quo.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Philastra