New PVP patch notes are completely bogus

[Ifolad]

sounds to me that some people are afraid of getting curb stomped by some f2p'ers. I'm not afraid, and you shouldn't be either.... why?...... b/c we know how to play our classes, we know that when we group with our friends we will beat unorganized groups who don't know eachother.

 

Everyone knows that skill > gear and premades > pugs in this game. Don't forget.

 

Quit worrying. Real pvpers will adapt to the system and will still faceroll.

 

How to avoid bad pugs, form premades, how to form premades /friend good players you see and send them polite tells asking to group up next time you're on. Be a team player and people will remember you.

 

So again, don't worry about the guy in greens coming up and wailing on you. Honestly you should have him dead long before you get close to dieing based on skill alone. If you die, then well..... we all know what that means and it's not that they're overpowered or hacking or cheating which is a whole other can of worms that many of other posts are dedicated to so lets leave that out.

 

Lastly: What this means is that your "scrubs" "bads" "insert derogatory catchphrase here about less skill players here" will be slightly tougher and hopefully not die in 3 gcd's but 6 or 7 instead giving your healers some time to actually heal them. I play a healer and i know how impossible it is to try to save a recruit gear'd person when a mara/sent jug/knight smash monkey / pt/vanguard 3 button spec fully min'max'd comes up on them.

 

enjoy

[BoushhDC]

...PvPers with their pride know that the only good solutions are the the holy erasing of this heresy called Expertise, or the best of the worse solutions being to balance Expertise across the board. Expertise is as carebear a choice as can be : peps don't have a clue? No problem, let's give them an all powerful stat that will balance their lack of game knowledge, skill, insight of their setup, etc....

 

I'm not certain if you remember or maybe you weren't playing the game from the beginning (no judgement here), but Expertise used to be a minor stat that existed on the armor (shell) itself. So people that PvP'd could either wear their pvp gear, or strip out the mods to improve their stats in their PvE sets of gear. Then the PvE'ers cried... and wailed... and frenetically tore out their hair... because players in PvP gear were going into the FPs and Ops and being almost as effective as the PvE'ers with the equivalent tier of gear. Nevermind that they (the PvE'ers) could likewise be almost as effective in the WZs in their PvE gear. But BW listened and wanted to draw a distinction between the gear sets to appease the PvE'ers. As a concession, all the regular stats were lowered on PvP gear across all the item components and expertise was boosted and distributed on all the mods so that pvp gear and their mods were *significantly* penalized and less effective/worthless in PvE, particularly the operations. Nevermind that on PvP servers where you might encounter unsolicited PvP while PvE'ing out in the world, but oh well, the PvE'ers had to be appeased for whatever reason, I guess.

 

So, if you don't like Expertise, I just wanted you to know and/or remember what group of players was responsible for boosting it to it's current state: PvP'ers *never* asked for it. So please direct your "Carebear" statements and vitriol in the appropriate direction.

 

PS : oh, btw, PvP is a mere mini-game in swtor, don't expect your cries to be heard.

 

Well, that's what the PvE'ers want, anyway.

[Ifolad]

I'm not certain if you remember or maybe you weren't playing the game from the beginning (no judgement here), but Expertise used to be a minor stat that existed on the armor (shell) itself. So people that PvP'd could either wear their pvp gear, or strip out the mods to improve their stats in their PvE sets of gear. Then the PvE'ers cried... and wailed... and frenetically tore out their hair... because players in PvP gear were going into the FPs and Ops and being almost as effective as the PvE'ers with the equivalent tier of gear. Nevermind that they (the PvE'ers) could likewise be almost as effective in the WZs in their PvE gear. But BW listened and wanted to draw a distinction between the gear sets to appease the PvE'ers. As a concession, all the regular stats were lowered on PvP gear across all the item components and expertise was boosted and distributed on all the mods so that pvp gear and their mods were *significantly* penalized and less effective/worthless in PvE, particularly the operations. Nevermind that on PvP servers where you might encounter unsolicited PvP while PvE'ing out in the world, but oh well, the PvE'ers had to be appeased for whatever reason, I guess.

 

So, if you don't like Expertise, I just wanted you to know and/or remember what group of players was responsible for boosting it to it's current state: PvP'ers *never* asked for it. So please direct your "Carebear" statements and vitriol in the appropriate direction.

 

 

 

Well, that's what the PvE'ers want, anyway.

 

i was here, i remember this, i also remember gen chat blowing up the day it happened and remember seeing half of a dedicated pvp guild on shadowlands /quit game that day and move to secret world. I will not divulge the guild name as the guild now consists of players that were not even created when this happened. I have no pics just my memory of talking to Kaos the day they left.

[Anthraxal]

I'm not certain if you remember or maybe you weren't playing the game from the beginning (no judgement here), but Expertise used to be a minor stat that existed on the armor (shell) itself. So people that PvP'd could either wear their pvp gear, or strip out the mods to improve their stats in their PvE sets of gear. Then the PvE'ers cried... and wailed... and frenetically tore out their hair... because players in PvP gear were going into the FPs and Ops and being almost as effective as the PvE'ers with the equivalent tier of gear. Nevermind that they (the PvE'ers) could likewise be almost as effective in the WZs in their PvE gear. But BW listened and wanted to draw a distinction between the gear sets to appease the PvE'ers. As a concession, all the regular stats were lowered on PvP gear across all the item components and expertise was boosted and distributed on all the mods so that pvp gear and their mods were *significantly* penalized and less effective/worthless in PvE, particularly the operations. Nevermind that on PvP servers where you might encounter unsolicited PvP while PvE'ing out in the world, but oh well, the PvE'ers had to be appeased for whatever reason, I guess.

 

So, if you don't like Expertise, I just wanted you to know and/or remember what group of players was responsible for boosting it to it's current state: PvP'ers *never* asked for it. So please direct your "Carebear" statements and vitriol in the appropriate direction.

 

 

 

Well, that's what the PvE'ers want, anyway.

 

Been there since day -5 on a pvp server and before that in extremely competitive PvP environments, the kind that is not likely to ever be designed again given the public that nowadays MMO are targeted towards. And fyi, I think segregated gear is an heresy (and as a consequence, carebear stats like Expertise) . No "group" of players is responsible for anything, loud mouths on forums aren't representative of any group at all, or are you new to the intaweb?

 

Choice > stacking, and twinking > outgearing. Nuff said.

 

Sorry if I burst your bubble, but PvP is just a minigame in the current state. Rarely have I seen a game where opposing sides have been so much securely separated and safely cuddled one from another, where PvP is so absolutely stakeless, where factions could so totally not care about PvP. PvP atm is as important to the game as datacron hunting...

[Nodulo]

As long as there is no bolster to ranked (55) warzones Im ok.

[BoushhDC]

Been there since day -5 on a pvp server and before that in extremely competitive PvP environments, the kind that is not likely to ever be designed again given the public that nowadays MMO are targeted towards. And fyi, I think segregated gear is an heresy (and as a consequence, carebear stats like Expertise) . No "group" of players is responsible for anything, loud mouths on forums aren't representative of any group at all, or are you new to the intaweb?

 

Choice > stacking, and twinking > outgearing. Nuff said.

 

Sorry if I burst your bubble, but PvP is just a minigame in the current state. Rarely have I seen a game where opposing sides have been so much securely separated and safely cuddled one from another, where PvP is so absolutely stakeless, where factions could so totally not care about PvP. PvP atm is as important to the game as datacron hunting...

 

I'm not new to anything, Junior, not MMOs and certainly not PvP. I've been playing SWTOR since closed beta, not that it is in any way relevant to the discussion at hand. Likewise, I don't know what "bubble" you think I maintain. LOL. Expertise was BWs design and was boosted in response to and ONLY after PvE'ers SOLELY complained in the manner I described in detail above; something which you don't bother to claim or seem to remember, but YES, they were the group responsible. Do I think it was all PvE'ers? No. Was it enough of who you describe as the "loudmouths" to elicit a response from BW? Clearly it was. I suspect that most of those original complaintants have since moved on to other games anyway. I'm not arguing either for or against the pending changes in the system, if you go back and read more carefully, just pointing out the evolution of the changes since you seem so intent on accusing and insulting others.

Edited April 6, 2013 by BoushhDC

[Groncho]

As long as there is no bolster to ranked (55) warzones Im ok.

 

And how will bolster affect a fully min/maxed Conqueror toon?

[cashogy_reborn]

And how will bolster affect a fully min/maxed Conqueror toon?

 

it wont (or shouldnt) based on what bioware has told us. you will only get a boost from Bolster to a certain point for each piece of gear; once said piece of gear is past that threshold it wont get anything from Bolster. at least thats how i read it as working

[Anthraxal]

I'm not new to anything, Junior, not MMOs and certainly not PvP. I've been playing SWTOR since closed beta, not that it is in any way relevant to the discussion at hand. Likewise, I don't know what "bubble" you think I maintain. LOL. Expertise was BWs design and was boosted in response to and ONLY after PvE'ers SOLELY complained in the manner I described in detail above; something which you don't bother to claim or seem to remember, but YES, they were the group responsible. It's not anyone's fault but the affronted PvE'ers own that people that now primarily PvE or are new to the game don't like what it currently is. I'm sure that most of those original complaintants have since moved on to other games anyway. I'm not arguing either for or against the pending changes in the system, if you go back and read more carefully, just pointing out the evolution of the changes since you seem so intent on accusing and insulting others.

 

I was told Expertise was Resilience copy, which is a Blizzard creation. Wouldn't know, never played WoW... Anyway, you seem to confuse individuals whining on the forums and whole groups, and persons militating for/against changes and virtual separated groups like "PvEers" and "PvPers". I'm a PvP oriented player frustrated by swtor PvP state and doing more PvE as a consequence. What group am I part of?

 

Given I mentioned I hate the concept of separated gear, how do you think I feel about the evolution you talk about? At the end of the day, who cares : PvP is a failed feature of swtor atm and need changes, Bolster could be a move in the right direction. It's still a long way before swtor pvp qualifies as worth mentioning though.

[Zunayson]

Bolster means skill > gear, Bioware is doing so because before we had a gear gap in PVP.

 

When the game was released Valor was the grind, and you couldn't wear good armor without Valor.

 

Now bolster will pan out the damage 2.0, and it will put players in a situation where gear don't = all, actually skill will = all.

 

If people only get gratification from roflstomping people ungeared then this won't be the game for you come 2.0.

 

Gear progression will still be in the game, but far as people being elite because of gear that is geting taken away.

 

It's that simple.

 

^

 

but mmo pvp is still bad. Minecraft is 1337.

[BoushhDC]

I was told Expertise was Resilience copy, which is a Blizzard creation. Wouldn't know, never played WoW... Anyway, you seem to confuse individuals whining on the forums and whole groups, and persons militating for/against changes and virtual separated groups like "PvEers" and "PvPers". I'm a PvP oriented player frustrated by swtor PvP state and doing more PvE as a consequence. What group am I part of?

 

Given I mentioned I hate the concept of separated gear, how do you think I feel about the evolution you talk about? At the end of the day, who cares : PvP is a failed feature of swtor atm and need changes, Bolster could be a move in the right direction. It's still a long way before swtor pvp qualifies as worth mentioning though.

 

The idea of a PvP stat is not BioWare's invention. Rift had pvp gear with "Valor" which was a stat that mitigated damage from players, so defensive. Aion had "PvP Attack" (offensive, increased damage to players, on pvp weapons) and "PvP Defense" (defensive, mitigate dmg from players, on pvp armor). WoW: "PvP Attack" (offensive increase to damage) and "PvP Resilience" (defensive dmg mitigation). BioWare's *design*, as I referred to it, is the all-purpose stat of Expertise which Is both offensive and defensive, as we know.

 

And no, I confuse nothing, which should be apparent from my clarifying statement: "Do I think it was all PvE'ers? No. Was it enough of who you describe as the "loudmouths" to elicit a response from BW? Clearly it was." In either iteration, the point stands: those that complained to the point that BW responded w/ the changes, were members exclusively from one group... those that solely PvE'd. PvP'ers never asked for Expertise to begin with and they absolutely didn't appreciate it's expansion and, as one poster recounted above, widely and vociferously roiled against it.

 

There are a number of things I don't like about the PvP in SWTOR -- many of which we may agree upon -- but again, for the purpose of this discussion, I solely provided the timeline of the actions, reactions, and evolution of the changes relating to Expertise, inflicted upon those who PvP either voluntarily (War Zones) or involuntarily (open world where the factions converge).

 

For those that PvE, the system of gearing has been straight-forward and pretty linear in it's progression with ever increasingly powerful sets to acquire, to allow players to experience new content and/or harder modes of existing content. With PvP, the stats, rules, currency, and acquisition requirements have all changed numerous times IN ADDITION to the increasing tiers. For those of us that have continued to PvP, despite all it's flaws, there has been an opportunity cost to adapting to each of the changes. You make it sound that you've largely abandoned PvP in order to PvE. That's your choice, but with the changes, it clearly benefits you in that you don't need to spend the time PvP'ing in another gear grind to the previous extent (the current version prior to 2.0's release) for a separate set of gear in order to be viable. That's all well and good, but for those of us that have ground out our gear, to the comparatively limited/exclusion of grinding out a PvE set (since that was the result of the Expertise boost BW did earlier), where is our quid pro quo? Where is our bolstering of PvE Ops etc. to allow us access to that content? *That* is my issue: fine with the changes, but where is our trade-off for all the time we spent, adapting to BWs various systems (plural) grinding our gear?

 

You may consider PvP a mini-game to you, or you may consider that BioWare relegates PvP to the status of a mini-game (which I might even agree with), but for many dedicated PvP'ers, it isn't a mini-game to us as indicated by the hundreds and hundreds of hours we spend doing it. Speaking for myself, I know I spend exponentially more time PvP'ing than PvE'ers having to wait for groups to form and then running their Ops.

Edited April 6, 2013 by BoushhDC

[Groncho]

it wont (or shouldnt) based on what bioware has told us. you will only get a boost from Bolster to a certain point for each piece of gear; once said piece of gear is past that threshold it wont get anything from Bolster. at least thats how i read it as working

 

I know, thats why it has no sense asking for no bolster in rankeds

[skygon]

PvP should be all about Skill not gear. As a Hardcore PvPer, i also approved the new system.

[cashogy_reborn]

I know, thats why it has no sense asking for no bolster in rankeds

 

well whether it is there or not, having Partisan or Conqueror gear is going to be better 10 times out of 10. if you try to do RWZ relying on Bolster, youre gonna have a sore butt

[breathofrockets]

OP is completely backwards with this and it's pretty hilarious.

 

This game never catered to the more skillful pvp crowd. It was a huge gear grind from the start that only got worse when they reworked expertise. If any good pvper walks into level 50 pvp now, they get owned by largely bad players who rely on their fully augmented gear set to do well in pvp. Coming back to the game a week or two ago it's extremely frustrating when you get beat by a player that backpedals and keyboard turns only because you're in recruit vs their war hero, ultimately leading you to not want to pvp at all.

 

Now maybe those terrible players who suck without their gear will actually improve their gameplay.

[Isislol]

OP is completely backwards with this and it's pretty hilarious.

 

This game never catered to the more skillful pvp crowd. It was a huge gear grind from the start that only got worse when they reworked expertise. If any good pvper walks into level 50 pvp now, they get owned by largely bad players who rely on their fully augmented gear set to do well in pvp. Coming back to the game a week or two ago it's extremely frustrating when you get beat by a player that backpedals and keyboard turns only because you're in recruit vs their war hero, ultimately leading you to not want to pvp at all.

 

Now maybe those terrible players who suck without their gear will actually improve their gameplay.

 

What grind? It's stupid easy to gear in this game. If you pvp the gear will come fast but if you only do pvp daily then I can see why the gear is a problem for you.

There's always gonna be a gear gap because hardcore pvp'ers will min/max while more casual players will just use regular vendor gear. Most people who complain about gear, at least on my server, are not very good but hey, it's easier to moan on forums then actually play the game and work on improving your skill/gear.

[Nucairion]

The fact that they are rewarding people who take no time to get their gear, have no idea how to play or gear their class, and then queue for warzones expecting to get carried by those of us who do is just ridiculous to me

 

congratulations you have no idea how to play the game so you get EXTRA bolster in warzone

 

 

in my opinion over the last year bioware has been focusing on the wrong group of people. Trying to make the game easier for those players and making it more difficult for us to use the knowledge we have of the game to be better. If i spend the time farming money, and mods and armorings or augments I get less of a bolster in a warzone.

 

Focus on encouraging players to learn how to improve their own character... not sit in their own ignorance and not have any motivation to improve.

 

The players who are bad are the temporary ones. The ones who are good are the loyal ones who will subscribe to bioware, giving them the money to maintain the game.

 

Keep nerfing us and we're all gonna leave when the next mmo comes along. Because for the last couple of years thats all we've been doing looking for a game that pits skill against skill, not caters to all the baddies who flock to this kind of game hoping to be carried, or that it will get easier and easier until they can play it like lego batman or little big planet. (great games, but not what im looking for when i log into an mmo)

 

Look what a person does weather is pve and pvp does not mean they cant play there class or know how to gear up. The type of game u expierance plays no part on if you no how to to play. You either learn to play your class or not.

 

Do I think rhese changes are good. No do I think there the end of pvp as we no it no. If it brings more ppl into pvp who may want to pvp every so often without the crappy recruit slaughterfest that goes on.

 

 

However yes it may bring some bads to pvp but it may also brings some good players to pvp who decide to actually do gear up. Your judging ppl based of no fact and before this has even hit live so wait and see before you condem pvp and ppl

[MaulrightNow]

Statements of bolster being a free give away are fine and makes sense. It feels like a cheat for anyone who gears regularly and min maxes. Even worse however is that new bolster means there is no reward for pvp and pvp is simply a pastime for pve'rs who are not in their raid at the time. That pve'rs get to be in the pvp wz for less time to get their pve bis relics may be helpful but I don't get the feeling they will be leaving. And pvp in pve gear will continue to be a mainstay as long as bolster is in effect.

 

This isn't to say that bolster during leveling isn't a good idea considering the add of 10-29, 30-54, and 55 wz's. Because without this bolster and the removal of WH and EWH gear at 50 the middle bracket would be impossible for current leveling. It is not explicitly stated but 55 and 55ranked should have no bolster and that would be just fine for me as it keeps in tact an actual use and reward at top level will be needed.

 

Still, the problem with pvp is still with reward as the only reward for pvp is to stomp others..indeed that is the entire goal. BW needs to add a new and more dynamic rewards for level cap pve progression as well as pvp rewards. One or two pvp speeders or pve speeders and gear grind are not valuable rewards. Stomping recruits isn't a reward, ranked pvp shells are not rewards.

 

Give me a cap unique wz. Give me gear balanced single queue ranked. Give me pvp drops to roll on for victors. Give me a bonus mini-game. Give me victor only adaptive shell drops.

 

I'd rather they gave me the April fools dance WZ than just this..more of the same wait and see we are bringing you new stuff you want and need, btw here's a 15th cartel pack with low drop values for anything you would actually like.

 

Edit: P.S. Bolstering at higher levels should cost the bolstering player money. Money should be delivered to the non bolstered players. Well to be fair maybe not that extreme, but bolster should not be a free add you just give and it should be optional so you have the choice to disregard the penalty for it in leu of a more beneficial reward or bonus at the end. The continuing "something for nothing" giveaways have to stop. Power leveling, something for nothing, and recruits ruin wz's no matter which side they are on.

Edited April 7, 2013 by MaulrightNow

[cashogy_reborn]

even the low tier of the new PvP gear (partisan) is better than what bolster can give you.

 

getting really annoyed with all of these completely infactual posts. whether its that people dont know or dont understand, idk. Bolster in 2.0 will put you at a level equivalent to "recruit"; ie below a full set of current PvP gear, but enough to maintain a semblance of effectiveness.

 

the sky is not falling, in either direction. Bolster is doing nothing but leveling the playing field, even at level 55. it is a good thing.

[dcgregorya]

Ah, your tears are delicious. Nom nom nom.

[Anthraxal]

The idea of a PvP stat is not BioWare's invention. Rift had pvp gear with "Valor" which was a stat that mitigated damage from players, so defensive. Aion had "PvP Attack" (offensive, increased damage to players, on pvp weapons) and "PvP Defense" (defensive, mitigate dmg from players, on pvp armor). WoW: "PvP Attack" (offensive increase to damage) and "PvP Resilience" (defensive dmg mitigation). BioWare's *design*, as I referred to it, is the all-purpose stat of Expertise which Is both offensive and defensive, as we know.

I will trust you on this one, and I'm grateful to the flying spaghetti monster that I managed to avoid such games along the years...

 

And no, I confuse nothing, which should be apparent from my clarifying statement: "Do I think it was all PvE'ers? No. Was it enough of who you describe as the "loudmouths" to elicit a response from BW? Clearly it was." In either iteration, the point stands: those that complained to the point that BW responded w/ the changes, were members exclusively from one group... those that solely PvE'd. PvP'ers never asked for Expertise to begin with and they absolutely didn't appreciate it's expansion and, as one poster recounted above, widely and vociferously roiled against it.

You realize it doesn't make sense, right? If the men behind the changes were all PvE-exclusive players, what was their business trying to change PvP? Anf if "PvPers" were so vociferously against Expertise, does it mean thoses campaigning against 2.0 Bolster are actually PvErs? My point is, you can't unilateraly put people into one artificial group or another. But anyway, it's bickering.

 

(...)

 

For those that PvE, the system of gearing has been straight-forward and pretty linear in it's progression with ever increasingly powerful sets to acquire, to allow players to experience new content and/or harder modes of existing content. With PvP, the stats, rules, currency, and acquisition requirements have all changed numerous times IN ADDITION to the increasing tiers. For those of us that have continued to PvP, despite all it's flaws, there has been an opportunity cost to adapting to each of the changes. You make it sound that you've largely abandoned PvP in order to PvE. That's your choice, but with the changes, it clearly benefits you in that you don't need to spend the time PvP'ing in another gear grind to the previous extent (the current version prior to 2.0's release) for a separate set of gear in order to be viable. That's all well and good, but for those of us that have ground out our gear, to the comparatively limited/exclusion of grinding out a PvE set (since that was the result of the Expertise boost BW did earlier), where is our quid pro quo? Where is our bolstering of PvE Ops etc. to allow us access to that content? *That* is my issue: fine with the changes, but where is our trade-off for all the time we spent, adapting to BWs various systems (plural) grinding our gear?

 

Even though my own activity is irrelevant for the question at hand, I actually do both PvP and PvE on a PvP server because I still have hopes that one miraculous day PvP gets some real treatment, and that I wanna be ready when it happens. As for what benefits me, you understand that not only I have all the gear and tools I need, but I would moreover welcome the end of that separated gear silliness : no more Expertise, no more nerfed numbers. To put it briefly, what this game needs is a lot more variables to play with and twink (aka more choice gearwise), extended skill trees (but not more points to spend), more occasions for factions to clash eachother, and more PvP occurences with real stakes.

 

You may consider PvP a mini-game to you, or you may consider that BioWare relegates PvP to the status of a mini-game (which I might even agree with), but for many dedicated PvP'ers, it isn't a mini-game to us as indicated by the hundreds and hundreds of hours we spend doing it. Speaking for myself, I know I spend exponentially more time PvP'ing than PvE'ers having to wait for groups to form and then running their Ops.

So we agree PvP state is one of a minigame. What I might have said earlier is that this state doesn't satisfy me. By all means and intent, I hope Bolster is a first step in the right direction.

[skotish]

even the low tier of the new PvP gear (partisan) is better than what bolster can give you.

 

getting really annoyed with all of these completely infactual posts. whether its that people dont know or dont understand, idk. Bolster in 2.0 will put you at a level equivalent to "recruit"; ie below a full set of current PvP gear, but enough to maintain a semblance of effectiveness.

 

the sky is not falling, in either direction. Bolster is doing nothing but leveling the playing field, even at level 55. it is a good thing.

Me too the bolster mechanic on the pts using the pve gear never put me anywhere near the pvp sets expertise

[Maraxuss]

To me, the concept that playing an MMO for a bit of time == work is ridiculous.

 

I get what your saying though. Your bothered by the idea that someone who has spent less time playing pvp has more equal stats compared to someone who pvp's alot. Especially because that relationship doesnt exist the other way around. We cant jump into pve and be bolstered.. ***?

 

To me the answer is that PvP and PvE are entirely different kinds of games. PvP should be accessible at the entry level to everyone. Progression in PvP should always be about increasing your skill by overcoming challenges. The thing is, in PvP the challenge should come from fighting skilled players, not by some artificial gear gap.

 

PvE is a different story. It is trivial to conquer even the most skillfully scripted AI. An artificial gating system is necessary.

Completely different modes mang.

 

Having PvP being trivialized with no rewards vs my time spent (vs a Pve'er and his time spent) means that a PvEer's content should be trivialized as well. Raids should be about story progression right.....not gear progression? So why does gear matter in PvE?

 

IF I turned fresh 50 and was bolstered to where I could run raids in my 49 greens, i probably would. Just to see the story content, and the content that has been developed for swtor, but if this was the case...Raiders would be up in arms...but why should they be shouldnt it be in thier intesrest for other players to experience story content....instead of getting the next "ARMAGEDDON"..or "BETRAYER OF HUMANITY". Ya right..................

 

When 2.0 hits, i can not go into a raid with my PvP gear and do reasonably well, or just a tad below spec a full blown raider.....but a PvE'er can with his gear go into PvP, and do reasonably well.. How does that work out...hmmm.

[Maraxuss]

^^ this.

 

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

I see people all the time showing up in wzs w/ their pve gear on. There is nothing barring them from experiencing the pvp content even though they aren't geared for it. It currently effects the success of the team as a whole, but that's just the way it is at the moment. Conversely, however anyone without certain gear types will not be allowed to participate in pve operations or hms. For example, during the gree event, in general chat on ilum, players were routinely looking for more to join their operations that "must be geared" to the point of often specifying full dread guard and on one occasion even had to have gotten "*every* datacron" in the game (no joke) and that was for not only for the hm operation, but the regular as well as even the ilum bosses in the caves. So, if you didn't have the top gear, they wouldn't invite you.

 

So, since with 2.0 people will be able to show up in their green gear that's 10 levels below them and be just as effective stat-wise as someone in full, augmented ewh, then why not bolster pve also? You can still have your gear grind from drops and chests, etc, but why not bolster players that primarily pvp? After all, those that show up in the wzs with their pve gear chose to use their game time to acquire their gear and likewise, others have spent their time pursuing their pvp gear... Which has changed many more times ranging from tiers, the valor grind, to the rng of gear from bags, to straight purchasing w/ different types of commendations used as currency and now 2.0 is about upon us with more changes. With each of the changes and new tiers, it has required a substantial time commitment to acquire each new set and adapt to changes (to gear and nerfs to abilities/damage, but the latter is a whole different story).

 

Personally, all the time i was grinding pvp gear, i *was not* able to spend as much time grinding pve gear. That's called an "opportunity cost." the pve'ers have never been barred from participating in pvp although arguably they suffered a disadvantage (which was often distributed to the team) but now they will be just as effective from a stat perspective as a primary pvp'er but with a fraction of the time and effort... *and* they already have their top end pve gear. Effectively, they can experience all the game's content without being barred by other players for gear reasons. That's fine if that's what you all want, but where is the quid pro quo? How is a pvp'er who has dedicated more of their finite time to pursuing the top tier of gear going to be likewise enabled to experience all the game has to offer with the equivalent amount of time, effort and credits invested that you will soon be affording the primary pve'ers?

 

Long time pvp'ers such as myself have had to accept and adapt to all the vast changes as they've come along since launch, but where is the even handedness? I and i'm sure others would also like to experience other content (and often have: I've done every fp and op in the game, including hms & nmms) but not enough to have ground out every piece of the top tier of gear which is required to experience all the rest the game has to offer. I'm not trying to say don't make the changes to enable more people to experience content in a more enjoyable, less frustrating way; i'm just saying, if you insist on doing it, do it for everyone.

 

^^^^^^^^^ x10000

[Aelaias]

Bolster if done right will be a vast improvement over the system we have since launch, which is the same idiotic setup they have in Warhammer Online.