People not properly playing their roles

[Hylentor]

And some people just really aren't very nice, and don't play their roles because they can't be bothered. I've been lumbered with a few unpleasant people in PUGs but a healer who ran ahead of the group the whole time and refused to heal was quite memorable. As the only stealth class, she was able to slip past a lot of enemies, which would be fine if she didn't leave us behind to fight them without heals. It was made clear to us that our time spent fighting the unskippable enemies was a great annoyance to her. Anyway, we were surviving OK other than one DPS death, and as it was one of the quicker HMs we just kept going. We did wonder if she thought she had been put in a DPS role by group finder, but as she wasn't DPSing either, it's not very likely! The whole thing didn't end well, with her becoming verbally abusive when we died during the final boss fight. We completed the flashpoint without her.

 

Wow. I tend to be very patient with people (if 3 of us know what we're doing, we can compensate for one idiot pulling before the tank, etc.), but Id've initiated a vote kick after the 2nd pack or so of that happening.

 

I tend to find less idiot healers than other types, but they obviously exist...

[jedimasterjac]

Well, I ran Red Reaper on my 45 Vanguard, as tank, and we all know running it pre-50 can be a bit difficult. But, we had 2 50's, and ran through it pretty well. However, our Commando Healer was DPS'ing a lot more than he healed. I would get down to 30% health or so before he hit me with a single heal, and I know I was in range of him. I know it's rediculous to expect him to keep me at 100% health, but he didn't heal the DPS's either, so he had to be DPS'ing himself. Edited April 5, 2013 by jedimasterjac

[Hylentor]

Both right

 

I'm playing as a healer now, after a few months of DPSing and I'm loving it.

Usually I can DPS a little too, since I'm not always healing, but some FPs are healing intensive even if people know what they're doing (like lost island).

 

But, now that I'm healing, there's one thing that bugs me: why do some people insist on going from fight to fight without healing all the way, first? Or worst, sometimes they don't even wait for the other players.

 

 

Let me know if you figure it out... My main's a healer and I've been wondering about that since day one - "dude! hit your seethe already!" Maybe it comes from wow. habits? (I'm sure someone more familiar with that one could tell...)

[Lycor]

Let me know if you figure it out... My main's a healer and I've been wondering about that since day one - "dude! hit your seethe already!" Maybe it comes from wow. habits? (I'm sure someone more familiar with that one could tell...)

 

I never played WOW, so I don't know, but it's strange. After the first time I see that, I usually write on the chat to "wait for everybody before attacking, please" or "please heal up all the way before a fight". And it usually does the trick

 

But I have to confess I was a bit mean to a player some days ago. He was doing it, so I let him die 2 times (still costs credits...muahahah...punishment...lol) and then I wrote on the chat, after he complained.

[mikebevo]

Well, I ran Red Reaper on my 45 Vanguard, as tank, and we all know running it pre-50 can be a bit difficult. But, we had 2 50's, and ran through it pretty well. However, our Commando Healer was DPS'ing a lot more than he healed. I would get down to 30% health or so before he hit me with a single heal, and I know I was in range of him. I know it's rediculous to expect him to keep me at 100% health, but he didn't heal the DPS's either, so he had to be DPS'ing himself.

Did you or anyone in you group die? If not the healer did his/her job.

 

If the healer was a 50 with any type of gear, one big heal will over fill most level 45 toons. I know I most likely do it wrong, I like to keep everyone at as close to 100% as possible. I don't want them to worry about anything but tanking and dps, but really in most HMFP I can out dps the dps with my gear now.

 

But, now that I'm healing, there's one thing that bugs me: why do some people insist on going from fight to fight without healing all the way, first? Or worst, sometimes they don't even wait for the other players.

They figure the healer will top them off. Which long before a healer get full 63 becomes extremely easy to do in any HMFP including HMLI, however that does not help new inexperience healers when they get these people in their goup. I have seen people jump into new mob and even a boss fight at 50% health while I was playing dps. I just whispered the fresh 50 healer not to worry about it. If the idiot thought 50% health was enough, just worry about keeping them at 50%.

 

When I am healing, I don't care if people never heal out of combat, but when I was a fresh 50 with no clue how to manage energy, it was a pain. On dps I consider it my responsibility to maintain my health. I will jump into fights I know at 60% and above health, if I have a cooldown up or a medpac ready, if I screw up there I know it is not the healer fault.

Edited April 5, 2013 by mikebevo

[LarryRow]

I think some of you just have awful luck with group finder. I expect every HM FP I queue for to go smoothly, with maybe a wipe here or there due to laziness or sloppiness, and this expectation is almost always met.

 

The only flashpoint I look forward to in LFG is hard mode Lost Island, because it is somewhat of a challenge. I have had groups that didn't all speak english, and had to have someone translate fight mechanics in party chat, and we still did OK.

[DawnAskham]

I think some of you just have awful luck with group finder. I expect every HM FP I queue for to go smoothly, with maybe a wipe here or there due to laziness or sloppiness, and this expectation is almost always met.

 

The only flashpoint I look forward to in LFG is hard mode Lost Island, because it is somewhat of a challenge. I have had groups that didn't all speak english, and had to have someone translate fight mechanics in party chat, and we still did OK.

 

Most of my groups using the GF tool are fine, even if quite a few have players on the low end of the gear / skill / knowledge scale.

 

However there are groups that just have terrible players in them, and no amount of help is going to compensate.

 

In those instances, I either remove the terrible player or I drop the group.

 

And to the OP, there are no excuses for players not performing their roles. Call them out (direct but politely) and if they correct their behavior / spec / gear, then continue on. If they don't, vote to kick. If that fails, drop the group and let the rest enjoy the fail.

Edited April 5, 2013 by DawnAskham

[blujoker]

Don't need group-finder to get silliness though. Had grouped up with a guildie and two others for section-x heroic and afterwards they wanted (one of the two, they seemed to die a lot) to know if we wanted to do HM LI with our group. The group makeup was two shadows, a marauder, and juggernaut, they seemed upset when the other three of us pointed out the fact that we had no healing.

[mikebevo]

The group makeup was two shadows, a marauder, and juggernaut, they seemed upset when the other three of us pointed out the fact that we had no healing.

meh, healers are overrated.

[Khevar]

Don't need group-finder to get silliness though. Had grouped up with a guildie and two others for section-x heroic and afterwards they wanted (one of the two, they seemed to die a lot) to know if we wanted to do HM LI with our group. The group makeup was two shadows, a marauder, and juggernaut, they seemed upset when the other three of us pointed out the fact that we had no healing.

Heh. I've known more than a few players that think that 2 lightsabers mean they can tank, heal and dps.

[Kitru]

Heh. I've known more than a few players that think that 2 lightsabers mean they can tank, heal and dps.

 

I actually met someone that believed they qualified as a healer because they were Watchman spec. Not just "jokingly commented". Legitimately believed that he should be allowed to queue as a healer because he thought he could fulfill the healing requirements for a group (because people only ever need ~6% of their max hp every 20 seconds or so according to him).

[mikebevo]

I actually met someone that believed they qualified as a healer because they were Watchman spec. Not just "jokingly commented". Legitimately believed that he should be allowed to queue as a healer because he thought he could fulfill the healing requirements for a group (because people only ever need ~6% of their max hp every 20 seconds or so according to him).

Thankfully GF does the thinking at least on that class.

[Kitru]

Thankfully GF does the thinking at least on that class.

 

It was actually in a GF group (for HM LI even) where the healer dropped out immediately (the "healer" hadn't intended to queue as heals and bowed out when he noticed what role he was chosen for). The other DPS was a Commando (who didn't want to respec and didn't know how to heal), and the Watchman said that the Commando should just queue up as heals and get a third DPS because said Watchman insisted that his Zen heals would be more than enough (I was on my VG tank at the time so it's not like he was saying "Shadow self heals + Watchman Zen heals = full healer"). Needless to say, I left that group almost immediately.

[VigDiath]

Worse case I've seen is a Commando healer who did not heal me (tank) once while we were running HM Lost Island. I know this FP can be hard but I hate when people make it harder than it needs to be which happens about 95% of the time I queue for it.

 

I've healed it once successfully. Not sure if it was the group make up but we got through the Droid with no issues other than people dropping bubbles too close to the tank. I tried healing it again yesterday and kept getting mobbed by the adds. We wiped once. Tank tells everyone to interrupt incinerate. We wipe again. Tank tells me to cleanse fire if we cannot interrupt incinerate. Now I'm just ready to bounce but I stick with it. We wipe again because it's hard for me to get heals off trying to avoid the adds. Add to that the bubble dropped on me twice. Bubble dropping is not an issue but the adds brought my health down to about 30% (every single one of em was on me). So I tell the tank to taunt the adds off of me........He tells me he's never had to do it before. I laugh and say, well they are only attacking me so can you taunt adds off of me. He says they are weak and are not hitting for anything at all. I told him whenever I tank and adds come out...I taunt them off of ANYONE especially the HEALER.

He starts to argue some more. I leave.

 

It's bad when I have to tell people how to play their roles when they should know them already. When I heal, I don't act like a Tank. I act like the guy trying to preserve the life of my team. Every now and then I'll DPS if needed. Same thing when I DPS. I don't act like a Tank. I DPS since that is my role. It's not that hard.

[Drew_Braxton]

Eh, you take the good with the bad. I usually don't mind new people, people that don't know how to play their characters, their roles, or check to make sure their gear is appropriate before queuing. It keeps me on my toes and is good practice. Quick flawless runs with geared people who know exactly what to do gets boring.

[Kitru]

So I tell the tank to taunt the adds off of me........He tells me he's never had to do it before. I laugh and say, well they are only attacking me so can you taunt adds off of me. He says they are weak and are not hitting for anything at all. I told him whenever I tank and adds come out...I taunt them off of ANYONE especially the HEALER.

He starts to argue some more. I leave.

 

I generally don't bother tanking the adds on the droid boss in LI, though I make sure to tell the DPS to actually kill them. As a tank, I focus on interrupting the cast and making sure the boss isn't standing in bad (so that the DPS and I can wail on said boss without dying), and I only get the adds if it's not any additional work (i.e. I tag them with tangential AoE or I notice they're nearby and my AoE taunt is off CD). The adds die so quickly that there isn't much of a point in tanking them so it's better to just have the DPS spend 2 GCDs to look away from the boss to blow 'em all up.

 

If the healer is getting swarmed by the adds, I don't see it so much as a tank problem (the adds are spread out and a mix of melee/range so they're notoriously annoying to tank and often spawn right around the same time that Incinerate is coming) as a DPS problem.

[Khevar]

...

 

So I tell the tank to taunt the adds off of me........He tells me he's never had to do it before. I laugh and say, well they are only attacking me so can you taunt adds off of me. He says they are weak and are not hitting for anything at all. I told him whenever I tank and adds come out...I taunt them off of ANYONE especially the HEALER.

He starts to argue some more. I leave.

 

...

I've healed poor pugs where nobody taunted the adds off of me. Honestly it wasn't that big a deal. I bubbled myself, kept healing the tank and used Force Mend (30s cd). The dps even stayed on the LR-5 and I tanked two groups of adds before anyone else got around to killing them.

[Eternalnight]

If the healer is getting swarmed by the adds, I don't see it so much as a tank problem (the adds are spread out and a mix of melee/range so they're notoriously annoying to tank and often spawn right around the same time that Incinerate is coming) as a DPS problem.

 

That's right. If the adds are attacking the healer, it is not so much a case of your tank being bad, but a case of your dps being bad.

[fire-breath]

I'll share my horror story as well.

 

It was Battle of Ilum, we had an operative healer and was wiping on every single boss. When we actually killed any of the bosses, some people were lost in the process and the remaining ones were close to dying. As it turned out, healer was - and i quote - "semi-healing specced". When asked what is that spec, he replied 10/31/0. THAT was his understanding of healing spec (he did not even had kolto probes). Best part, he blamed us - tank / dpses and said that he healed Denova HM no problem (that was the time when Denove NiM and Asation SM/HM wasn't in the game yet).

 

He could have been full healspecced for EC HM ;-)

 

On my sage I usually only have to put down my salvation in hardmode flashpoints, the rest I can focus dps (ofc with the occasional healing for the tank if going below 50-60%). Offcourse, going in as 10/31/0 is quite tricky for even HM flashpoints I fear. I think I'll try that one (just for the funs to get some challange (relax, I won't do that while pugging, will sacrifice my guildies for that one )

[Jossajus]

Worse case I've seen is a Commando healer who did not heal me (tank) once while we were running HM Lost Island. I know this FP can be hard but I hate when people make it harder than it needs to be which happens about 95% of the time I queue for it.

 

I've healed it once successfully. Not sure if it was the group make up but we got through the Droid with no issues other than people dropping bubbles too close to the tank. I tried healing it again yesterday and kept getting mobbed by the adds. We wiped once. Tank tells everyone to interrupt incinerate. We wipe again. Tank tells me to cleanse fire if we cannot interrupt incinerate. Now I'm just ready to bounce but I stick with it. We wipe again because it's hard for me to get heals off trying to avoid the adds. Add to that the bubble dropped on me twice. Bubble dropping is not an issue but the adds brought my health down to about 30% (every single one of em was on me). So I tell the tank to taunt the adds off of me........He tells me he's never had to do it before. I laugh and say, well they are only attacking me so can you taunt adds off of me. He says they are weak and are not hitting for anything at all. I told him whenever I tank and adds come out...I taunt them off of ANYONE especially the HEALER.

He starts to argue some more. I leave.

 

It's bad when I have to tell people how to play their roles when they should know them already. When I heal, I don't act like a Tank. I act like the guy trying to preserve the life of my team. Every now and then I'll DPS if needed. Same thing when I DPS. I don't act like a Tank. I DPS since that is my role. It's not that hard.

 

For that fight, as a tank, I AOE taunt the lot of them and expect the DPS to butcher them ( which is how it's meant to be done)

[Avorniel]

That's right. If the adds are attacking the healer, it is not so much a case of your tank being bad, but a case of your dps being bad.

 

Have to agree with this ,On my gunslinger I always look after the healer as my 2nd priority,if I see anything heading towards the healer I make sure it comes to me with a couple of big hits or use leg shot to stop it and then blast it.I never need to be told I just do it, as a dead healer normally means dead group and also I used to be a main Raid healer in Everquest 2 so always have a soft spot for them anyways.

[Jossajus]

Have to agree with this ,On my gunslinger I always look after the healer as my 2nd priority,if I see anything heading towards the healer I make sure it comes to me with a couple of big hits or use leg shot to stop it and then blast it.I never need to be told I just do it, as a dead healer normally means dead group and also I used to be a main Raid healer in Everquest 2 so always have a soft spot for them anyways.

 

As a vet of WoW tanking, I have a soft spot for healers as well.

[LVee]

I'll throw one peculiar case to collection of overall faults.

 

EC SM from groupfinder.

Sorc that got into as a healer.

Using Lightning spec.

In Assasin tank gear. (he got Tionesse Survivor plus one piece of Stalker)

[DarknessInLight]

I've healed poor pugs where nobody taunted the adds off of me. Honestly it wasn't that big a deal. I bubbled myself, kept healing the tank and used Force Mend (30s cd). The dps even stayed on the LR-5 and I tanked two groups of adds before anyone else got around to killing them.

 

Probably going to just repeat the process everyone knows for dealing with LR-5, but.....

 

1. Tanks stay on the Boss. If the Tank pulls the Adds, he isnt aggroing the Boss any more and the DPS do not have the defense to withstand the attacks of the Boss.

 

2. You should bring a mixed DPS group into this flashpoint. One Ranged and One Melee DPS. Ranged DPS should stay on the Boss at max range. Melee DPS stays close on the boss and PICKS UP THE ADDS. The reason for this is the Melee DPS typically(not always) dishes out more instant damage versus the Ranged which causes more DOT. Instant damage is what you want to cut down the adds quickly, save the healer and rejoin the fight against LR-5 via Force Leap(if Force User). Also, when the melee DPS picks up the adds, the ranged DPS can use their attacks to help burn the adds faster.

 

The Melee DPS should also remember that they will still have the plasma bubble cast on them, so they may have to plant the bubble while dealing with the adds. Typically though the ranged DPS will have more bubbles cast on them, which makes it easier for them to plant and move.

 

3. The Healer does what the healer is made to do. Heal! Having said that, the Healer also needs to monitor the Tank so that if the tank is hit with Incinerate, the Healer should use their Cleanse ability to mitigate the damage done to the tank. This helps SO much and is so often overlooked during the fight.

[Khevar]

...

 

1. Tanks stay on the Boss. If the Tank pulls the Adds, he isnt aggroing the Boss any more and the DPS do not have the defense to withstand the attacks of the Boss.

 

2. You should bring a mixed DPS group into this flashpoint. One Ranged and One Melee DPS. ..

This strat is fine, but it is by no means set in stone or required this way.

 

Remember that an aoe taunt will hit the boss and adds. I've tanked the adds by tossing out an aoe taunt, then the dps hit both the boss and adds with aoe attacks, then I single taunt the boss just in case. I've also done this fight with two melee dps, and with two ranged.

 

If incinerate is interrupted and the energy coils are dropped out of the way, and you don't have a tea party in the fire, most any strat will work.