Selenial Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) He countered this by hiding his real body God knows where and began to use a Voice (a host for his spirit to use) to carry out his orders as a response to Revan's attack on him. This Voice only holds a fraction of his true power and if it dies his essense will just transfer into another host, another Voice. So, he didn't need to care if there would be attempts on his life, if his Voice did fall to an assassination attempt, his essense would just transfer to another host, his true body is a Sith Pureblood btw, while the body shown in Act 3 was human. He does care about his life, however his life is unaffected if the Voice he is using expires. This is one of my main arguments concerning the JK only beating the Voice and not the real Emperor. Vitiate during his entire fight with the HOT didn't care whether the Hero were to beat him or not, where as his fight with Revan, he feared for his life. While Kira was cut off from the Emperor, she still knew how his mind worked, how he was just quiet and she felt that they were doomed the moment they landed on the space station. Just to clarify here, "Fraction of his power" is far from the truth. It's seen many times that the loss of the voice strains the emperor very much, I honestly believe the voice holds more power than you realise. The emperor went silent to the dark council after the voice was killed, and the Hand said it would take the emperor a while to recover. Edited April 7, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Darkondo just brought up what I was going to say. Everyone is ignoring that HoT killed the Voice, not Vitiate. Using that fight as a base to comparison is just absurd. NO I killed the emperor unless you can show me proof otherwise that bastard is six feet under. Mind control me will he. Showed his ***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Exactly, Plagueis has high proficiency with telepathy and Vitiate is too busy getting knocked down to sustain an effective mental attack. Vitiate could certainly resist a Force blast from Plagueis, and return equally powerful blasts in kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Just to clarify here, "Fraction of his power" is far from the truth. It's seen many times that the loss of the voice strains the emperor very much, I honestly believe the voice holds more power than you realise. The emperor went silent to the dark council after the voice was killed, and the Hand said it would take the emperor a while to recover. I didn't say that the loss of the Voice didn't strain the Emperor, only that it cant kill his essense, he would just transfer to either another Voice or his true body (in time as it may take awhile for him to recover as you said). I can say that it holds a fraction of his real power, how big a fraction it holds I would believe it to be small however that may be up for grabs. Proof is in the SW story, The Emperor's Wrath fought and defeated the Voice at full strength, now if that Voice really had the full power of the Emperor then the SW would never follow him as that would make the Emperor weaker than the SW, which is simply not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 NO I killed the emperor unless you can show me proof otherwise that bastard is six feet under. Mind control me will he. Showed his ***. Totally unrelated, but I love your signature. It had me laughing for quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Totally unrelated, but I love your signature. It had me laughing for quite a while. I stole it from some disney show my kids watch. I was sitting here playing swtor with them watching tv in the living room and I had to make them rewind it. I laughed so hard. Gravity Falls is the name of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Firstly, I think we can all agree that the mass killing of the first DC was achieved through ritual, as it is the only explanation, and Vitiate would not have the time to perform such a ritual in the heat of battle. And there is evidence to suggest that the second incarnation was weaker, IIRC the Emperor chose weaker, more controllable members. However to suggest Revan is more powerful than all 12 members of the DC, the most powerful Sith in the entire Sith Empire, is absurd - and that applies for all incarnations. Concerning the Tol Braga incident, Braga actually clearly states his intentions before the Emperor makes his remark, he may have even mentioned his name. So it is highly unlikely that mind reading was involved. For that reason I don't think we have enough evidence to assume that it could be used in this battle, especially given Plagueis' telepathic awareness. Concerning heat melting his transpirator, we cannot assume that blocking with his lightsaber would cause his transpirator to melt. For one Revan's mask melted as a result of catching his lightning with his hands, he was also overwhelmed. Not only would a lightsaber be further away from his face, but it would also only be sustained for a short amount of time as Plagueis has an arm free to respond with a Force wave, no change up necessary. That is if it happens anyway, Plagueis may simply be too fast. Nor have we any idea of how resistant to heat it is, so really saying it will melt instantly is pure presumption. Let's also remember Force shields will be protecting it. CI seems the only way Vitiate can continually hamper an opponent, but as a power that relies on the darkside to oppress its opponent, it's effect on Plagueis will be practically nullified. Simply put, any mentally hampering effects will be minor, not enough to have any real effect on the battle's outcome. Concerning the Voce, it is again a highly disputed as Hall Hood has said this basically isn't the case, so let's not make any definitive statements just yet. I will say that Hood mentioned the Emperor may have 'died' before, explaining why this body is not a Sith pureblood. Really the only way that I see Plagueis getting killed is if his transpirator melts, and what is more likely: Plagueis recklessly attempting to catch Vitiate's lightning, or Plagueis engaging Vitiate in lightsaber combat? The Hero of Tython managed and defeated him in that manner, so why can't Plagueis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I just don't get why he would be too busy to sustain a mental attack. If he could with Revan, Malak, Tol Braga, HoT, why with Plagueis would be so untouchable? I really think you guys are seeing Plagueis more like the godlike being from Sidious lttle history than the real being. He was more powerful than all guys I said above, perhaps, probably, but he's not so more powerful, that's what I'm trying to say.I've already explained exactly why, so read over my previous posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I think its best to just call it Aurbere, so we can move on with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Darkondo just brought up what I was going to say. Everyone is ignoring that HoT killed the Voice, not Vitiate. Using that fight as a base to comparison is just absurd.No, you seem to be ignoring what everyone else is saying. Hall Hood, the guy who wrote the JK storyline, said it was the Emperor. So it is a valid point until proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Vitiate could certainly resist a Force blast from Plagueis, and return equally powerful blasts in kind.And yet he couldn't resist a single bolt of his own lightning. On the other hand, Plagueis can catch bolts of of Vitiate's lightning and convert it into even more powerful waves of energy. Neither are Vitiate's Force waves that powerful. They weren't strong enough to knock Revan off his feet and arguably Revan is less powerful than Plagueis, arguably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I think its best to just call it Aurbere, so we can move on with this.Agreed, I think we've covered just about everything and either reached an impasse or agreement on most issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 I think it's time to call this one. I just want to say that both sides of this debate performed very well. However, only one side can claim victory. I have run this battle in my head countless times, and this was the most difficult decision to make yet. In the end, this clash of Dark Side masters ended with Darth Plagueis overcoming the sheer power of the Sith Emperor and impaling him on his blade. It was only through martial prowess was Plagueis able to overcome Vitiate, as the Sith Emperor's power proved too great to match. Using the terrain Lodge of the Canted Circle to his advantage, Plagueis was able to shield himself from Vitiate's lightning, and cut him down. I would like to say again that I did not make this decision lightly, but I had to consider everything. Plagueis' mental and martial superiority were major factors, and proved to be vital to his victory. While it should be known that Vitiate was more powerful than Plagueis, it simply wasn't enough. Plagueis had ways to resist Vitiate's abilities, and while his Transpirator was threatening to be an issue, Plagueis' speed and superior mental skills prevented Vitiate from capitalizing. The battle was long and drawn out, with Plagueis attempting to match Vitiate's power, but he was eventually forced to make the offensive. Vitiate proved almost too powerful to defeat, but when the Sith Emperor attempted to engage Plagueis in lightsaber combat (after Plagueis had finally closed the gap), he found himself quickly defeated. I would also like to remind everyone that Vitiate will return in the Loser's tournament, and may have a chance to redeem himself. Speaking of the tournament. Two characters have been replaced in favor of more developed characters. One of whom will be put to the test in a battle with the female touch when the Guardian of Felucia battles the graceful Miralan Jedi Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) So, it's Shaak Ti Vs someone I think XD Can't find the mirialan on the list tho >.>... It's like where's Wally >.> Edited April 8, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 So, it's Shaak Ti Vs someone I think XD Can't find the mirialan on the list tho >.>... It's like where's Wally >.> You won't find her on the list because I haven't made the revisions. The list on the home thread is obsolete. Keep the suspense, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 You won't find her on the list because I haven't made the revisions. The list on the home thread is obsolete. Keep the suspense, yes? Gggggrrrrr. *Waves* Oi! OI! Luminara! Luminara Unduli! Over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 So, it's Shaak Ti Vs someone I think XD Can't find the mirialan on the list tho >.>... It's like where's Wally >.> I'm pretty sure it's Where's Waldo. Then again, I'm not sure, let me look that up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I'm pretty sure it's Where's Waldo. Then again, I'm not sure, let me look that up... Im British. I've head where's Waldo on the Simpsons, but is it that in America too? Wheres Waldo Wheres Wally Looks like the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Gggggrrrrr. *Waves* Oi! OI! Luminara! Luminara Unduli! Over here. Maaaayyybeee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 So when be the next matchup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 So when be the next matchup? Soon. That's all I can really say. I don't think I'll be able to do it today, but I should get the next one posted on the 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Soon. That's all I can really say. I don't think I'll be able to do it today, but I should get the next one posted on the 9th. Take a lesson from bioware..... Soon™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeOrno Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I think it's time to call this one. I just want to say that both sides of this debate performed very well. However, only one side can claim victory. I have run this battle in my head countless times, and this was the most difficult decision to make yet. In the end, this clash of Dark Side masters ended with Darth Plagueis overcoming the sheer power of the Sith Emperor and impaling him on his blade. It was only through martial prowess was Plagueis able to overcome Vitiate, as the Sith Emperor's power proved too great to match. Using the terrain Lodge of the Canted Circle to his advantage, Plagueis was able to shield himself from Vitiate's lightning, and cut him down. I would like to say again that I did not make this decision lightly, but I had to consider everything. Plagueis' mental and martial superiority were major factors, and proved to be vital to his victory. While it should be known that Vitiate was more powerful than Plagueis, it simply wasn't enough. Plagueis had ways to resist Vitiate's abilities, and while his Transpirator was threatening to be an issue, Plagueis' speed and superior mental skills prevented Vitiate from capitalizing. The battle was long and drawn out, with Plagueis attempting to match Vitiate's power, but he was eventually forced to make the offensive. Vitiate proved almost too powerful to defeat, but when the Sith Emperor attempted to engage Plagueis in lightsaber combat (after Plagueis had finally closed the gap), he found himself quickly defeated. I would also like to remind everyone that Vitiate will return in the Loser's tournament, and may have a chance to redeem himself. Speaking of the tournament. Two characters have been replaced in favor of more developed characters. One of whom will be put to the test in a battle with the female touch when the Guardian of Felucia battles the graceful Miralan Jedi Master. Exactly how was Plagueis mental skills more powerful than those of Vitiate who had the mental capacity to dominate dozens of Sith and Jedi alike and retain his sanity? I like Plagueis but really...Vitiate would tear him down at range and assuming Plagueis gets close enough to use his lightsabers and assuming Vitiate isn't as proficient as Plagueis in saber combat...Vitiate is still going to be able to move away while constantly barraging Plagueis with smaller attacks...all in all even if Plagueis lands a mortal blow on Vitiate it won't kill him...not to mention the fact that if Plagueis lets down his guard for even a fraction of a second its over for him. In order to keep his pace in saber combat his mental guard WILL falter...Darth Bane was one of the most powerful martial fighters among the ranks of the Sith and even he lacked the capacity to press his opponent martially while keeping his mind completely shielded. * Which led to his defeat at the hands of Darth Zannah.* I would also like to point out that Darth Bane was almost without a doubt stronger than Plagueis in the ways of saber combat...and Darth Vitiate is without a single doubt stronger than Darth Zannah in the ways of the Force....yet Zannah beat Bane. Vitiate wins this...Plagueis just doesn't bring anything to the table that counters Vitiates sheer power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Im pretty sure once aubere calls it, it's done.... But I'd like to say one thing. A>B, B>C therefore A>C logic Does Not work. Different force users can play on different weaknesses and strengths. That logic simply doesn't work in Star Wars..... But tbh, I think aubere had his side on this allready His post on the original thread about Vitiates Opness being countered in the first round makes me think he had predicted how this would go.... IMO he made the right call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeOrno Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) Im pretty sure once aubere calls it, it's done.... But I'd like to say one thing. A>B, B>C therefore A>C logic Does Not work. Different force users can play on different weaknesses and strengths. That logic simply doesn't work in Star Wars..... But tbh, I think aubere had his side on this allready His post on the original thread about Vitiates Opness being countered in the first round makes me think he had predicted how this would go.... IMO he made the right call. How exactly....? I mean really I just can't think of any way Plagueis could pull off a win...would I root for him in the fight? maybe...but Vitiate is just so far beyond what Plagueis was into...I mean think about this.....Plagueis never achieved immortality despite spending his life trying....I'll grant you that he achieved a version of life one could consider near Immortal but he was not actually immortal. Meanwhile Darth Vitiate achieved complete death defying Immortality while still well into his youth. Its not a fight I see Plagueis winning anyway other than a straight up assassination...because if it breaks out into open combat he has nothing to counter the sheer waves of power that Vitiate is capable of summoning. Edited April 9, 2013 by JoeOrno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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