Theorycrafting spreadsheet for 2.0 balance sage

[Nibbon]

I'm having trouble finding a website with 2.0 items on it, but I'm currently on my sorc and can link you the stats. There is also an arkanian version of this relic that dropped off SM dread guards in TFB. For some reason the arkanian one is not on the vendor but the underworld one is.

 

Underworld Relic of Serendipitous Assault:

 

"Healing an ally or preforming a damaging attack on an enemy have a 30% chance to grant 550 power for 6 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 20 seconds, and shares limits with similar healing and damaging effects. It will not trigger inside of a PVP zone."

 

Cool, I didn't know this relic existed.

 

So 6 seconds of up-time every 20.666 seconds (the .666 is the avg time it will take to proc after the 20 second cooldown) times the amount of power 550 is the average power increase that youll see over the course of a fight ... in this case about 160 avg power which increases DPS by roughly 62 ... obviously a pretty rough number there. If you compare to the damage proc relic (about 52) - if they have an equal amount of static power (32 at top level) then the power proc relic is a lot better - if this power proc relic has no static power stat (32 power is about 12.5 dps) then it is still better :-D

 

Edit: fixed cooldown to 20.6666 not 26.666

Edited April 15, 2013 by Nibbon

[bbrooks]

Yea 32 static power. As always thanks for the help Grats on the Dash'rode kill

[Nibbon]

Yea 32 static power. As always thanks for the help Grats on the Dash'rode kill

 

I'm still thinking about this a bit ... for one, I think the DPS proc relic probably hits more than I originally estimated ... 30% proc chance means the average number of times it will take to hit is 1/.3=3.3333, sages, with our dots and all hit pretty quickly - about 3 per second so you would technically be proccing this 1.111 off cooldown. So thats every 5.6111 (not 6.666 like I originally was thinking). If that is the case - you have 52 DPS on the damage proc relic.

 

Now looking at the power one you brought to my attention - I might be reading into the language too much but let me point this out:

"Healing an ally or performing a damaging attack"

vs

"Damaging attacks have"

 

Performing is not the same thing as actually damaging ... damaging is whenever the target gets hit by damage (I know that is how this works) while performing, to me, means an actual cast. If that is the case - then the power relic won't proc as fast as 20.6666. Again we have 30% proc so every 3.333 casts. Depending on alacrity, you are doing a cast every 1.3-1.5 seconds. So at 1.4 (an OK amount of alacrity) it will take 4.6 seconds to proc. so now instead of 20.66666 you have 24.6. That would translate to ... 52 dps. So they would actually be dead even.

 

So two things ...

1. I need to learn a little more about the mechanics before making a true determination of their exact DPS.

2. Either way I would go with the Power proc relic because you can still time your mental alacrity to increase your total damage output (when you see the proc go off) - so this relic still would do more DPS overall. If my new way of thinking about it is correct, though, it is a very very small difference as opposed to the larger one I thought it may have been earlier.

 

Sorry to post so much contradicting information, but it seems more complicated than I thought

[Whattie]

but if you go as low as 0 in crit, why you spend 3 points on the seer +6% crit and why is surge still useful?

doenst surge works on crits?

[Nibbon]

but if you go as low as 0 in crit, why you spend 3 points on the seer +6% crit and why is surge still useful?

doenst surge works on crits?

 

the penetrating light? that is +3% -- it isn't a 3% boost to your crit, it is 3% crit.

 

So say you have 20% crit as your base - you then get 3 points of penetrating light - your new crit is 23% (as opposed to 20.6%). Crit has a really terrible curve right now, it would take a lot of points in crit to achieve this large jump in percentage, so this is a pretty useful talent.

 

Surge is still useful because it has a relatively good curve, still. And just because we don't put points in crit, doesn't mean we do not crit at all. Also, consider the alternative - we have put 6 enhancements into accuracy effectively maxing it out. The only other choice besides surge is alacrity. In this case, surge proves to be better than alacrity (again, because of the curve of the stat increase, but also the effectiveness in alacrity). If alacrity sped up how fast dots ticked, I think alacrity would be much better, but it doesn't. So given the usefulness of alacrity, the stat curves, and the fact that you still crit - surge is still quite useful.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Nibbon

[Whattie]

yes sorry i meant 3%

isnt 2% alacrity better than 3% crit? thats the point

[Nibbon]

yes sorry i meant 3%

isnt 2% alacrity better than 3% crit? thats the point

 

Yes, it is. Thats why my TK has 2 points in alacrity and only 1 in crit so the crit points can go elsewhere. My balance build has 2 alacrity and 3 in crit, so I'm not sure why you are making this point.

[Whattie]

yes i found both your versions

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-sage/224/?build=030000000000000000000000000000000023020000000000000000000000000003220322013100210122032002010100&ver=20

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-sage/224/?build=230000000000000000000000000000000023000000000000000000000000000003220322013100210122032002010100&ver=20

Edited April 15, 2013 by Whattie

[Nibbon]

you posted this, isnt it?

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-sage/224/?build=030000000000000000000000000000000023020000000000000000000000000003220322013100210122032002010100&ver=20

 

I've posted a lot since then - move the clamoring force to force gift and that is my current spec.

[Nibbon]

yes i found both your versions

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-sage/224/?build=030000000000000000000000000000000023020000000000000000000000000003220322013100210122032002010100&ver=20

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-sage/224/?build=230000000000000000000000000000000023000000000000000000000000000003220322013100210122032002010100&ver=20

 

Yeah the original reason I put the force gift into clamoring force was the extra alacrity was throwing off my timing - I've gotten used to it now and am using the second.

[bbrooks]

I'm still thinking about this a bit ... for one, I think the DPS proc relic probably hits more than I originally estimated ... 30% proc chance means the average number of times it will take to hit is 1/.3=3.3333, sages, with our dots and all hit pretty quickly - about 3 per second so you would technically be proccing this 1.111 off cooldown. So thats every 5.6111 (not 6.666 like I originally was thinking). If that is the case - you have 52 DPS on the damage proc relic.

 

Now looking at the power one you brought to my attention - I might be reading into the language too much but let me point this out:

"Healing an ally or performing a damaging attack"

vs

"Damaging attacks have"

 

Performing is not the same thing as actually damaging ... damaging is whenever the target gets hit by damage (I know that is how this works) while performing, to me, means an actual cast. If that is the case - then the power relic won't proc as fast as 20.6666. Again we have 30% proc so every 3.333 casts. Depending on alacrity, you are doing a cast every 1.3-1.5 seconds. So at 1.4 (an OK amount of alacrity) it will take 4.6 seconds to proc. so now instead of 20.66666 you have 24.6. That would translate to ... 52 dps. So they would actually be dead even.

 

So inspired by your thinking i went and decided to do some testing. Went to my ship and just afflictioned my dummy. I know pretty damn exciting. I was surprised to see the power proc relic we were discussing earlier had a chance to proc from each tick .

 

Seems like they should have worded the description differently, because it isn't performing a damaging attack it seems to be actually damaging an enemy. And to be fair, I didn't do any crazy hardcore testing, just afflictioned for like 4 minutes, but it seems to proc from dots, making it better for lightning and I would assume significantly better for madness/balance.

[Stoofa]

So with regards gearing, I think I'm seeing the suggestions here in this thread:

 

Power > Crit

What kind of ratio should we be looking at here? How much crit should we be considering?

 

Accuracy > Surge >Alacrity

6 Accuracy

3 Surge

1 Alacrity

 

Sounding around the recommended?

[vlasacikk]

And what about stats for TK sages? After reaching 110% acc should i focus on surge/power, crit or alac? Or is it the same as for balance sages? Or is it too soon to ask:)

[Nibbon]

So inspired by your thinking i went and decided to do some testing. Went to my ship and just afflictioned my dummy. I know pretty damn exciting. I was surprised to see the power proc relic we were discussing earlier had a chance to proc from each tick .

 

Seems like they should have worded the description differently, because it isn't performing a damaging attack it seems to be actually damaging an enemy. And to be fair, I didn't do any crazy hardcore testing, just afflictioned for like 4 minutes, but it seems to proc from dots, making it better for lightning and I would assume significantly better for madness/balance.

 

Thanks for the testing ... I guess that means the power proc relic is better, though.

[Nibbon]

So with regards gearing, I think I'm seeing the suggestions here in this thread:

 

Power > Crit

What kind of ratio should we be looking at here? How much crit should we be considering?

 

Accuracy > Surge >Alacrity

6 Accuracy

3 Surge

1 Alacrity

 

Sounding around the recommended?

 

you don't want any crit at all, so 0

you got the enhancements right for balance - for TK you can do the same or you can switch that 1 alacrity to surge as well.

[Nibbon]

And what about stats for TK sages? After reaching 110% acc should i focus on surge/power, crit or alac? Or is it the same as for balance sages? Or is it too soon to ask:)

 

About the same - focus on surge after accuracy. Always go power over crit.

[Stoofa]

you don't want any crit at all, so 0

you got the enhancements right for balance - for TK you can do the same or you can switch that 1 alacrity to surge as well.

 

Thanks. Most appreciated.

[vlasacikk]

About the same - focus on surge after accuracy. Always go power over crit.

 

Thanks Nibbon, for all the hard work, so that we dont have to

[iamthehoyden]

Just wanted to say thank you for the work on this. Reading this thread's been a good learning experience.

[Stoofa]

So buying those first pieces of "Classic level" armour and none of it really offers the mods enhancements needed for a DPS sage.

The boots are a good fit and the head piece is alright, but almost all the rest has crit when we just don't want it.

So it's going to be a matter of buying the armour but chopping and changing things a fair amount and hoping we can get the mods and enhancements we need.

[Nibbon]

So buying those first pieces of "Classic level" armour and none of it really offers the mods enhancements needed for a DPS sage.

The boots are a good fit and the head piece is alright, but almost all the rest has crit when we just don't want it.

So it's going to be a matter of buying the armour but chopping and changing things a fair amount and hoping we can get the mods and enhancements we need.

 

yeah pretty much

[theemptyone]

For the people who fall on the Darker side of things.. here is the Madness Spec he's using:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GZbcZfMfRsbkrfRo.3

 

And a few quick translations:

 

Balance = Madness

 

FIB(Force in Balance) = DF (Death Field)

SF(Sever Force) = CT(Creeping Terror)

MC(Mind Crush) = CD(Crushing Darkness)

WM(Weaken Mind) = Af(Affliction)

Disturbance = LS(Lightning Strike)

TT(Telekinetic Throw) = FL(Force Lightning)

Project = Shock

Pressence of Mind = Wrath

Mental Alacrity = Polarity Shift

Force Potency = Recklessness

 

 

TK (Telekinetics) = Lightning

 

TW(Telekinetic Wave) = CL(Chain Lightning)

Turbulance = Thundering Blast

 

His Rotation in Madness:

 

 

 

Af > DF > CT > FL > CD (wrath procced) > FL > LS (wrath procced, if CD isn't near ready)

 

Then sustain Af/CT, DF/CD on cool down with wrath procs.. LS if wrath proc isn't needed for CD.

[DogEyedBoy]

I'm thinking no crit pretty much applies to all DPS at this point, and I'm guessing it's a no-go for healer now too just because of the curve?

 

I know this is a DPS thread, but I've found your information very helpful and wondered what your thoughts are on stats for a healer, as healers don't need accuracy so there are more points to play with. Before 2.0 I went 50/50 alacrity/surge but at the moment my stats are all unoptimised so now's a good time for me to readdress the balance if need be.

[Gondolindhrim]

I have not crunched the numbers, but Critical Rating may still be relevant for healers as Power provides less Bonus Healing than it does Bonus Damage.

[Nibbon]

I'm thinking no crit pretty much applies to all DPS at this point, and I'm guessing it's a no-go for healer now too just because of the curve?

 

I know this is a DPS thread, but I've found your information very helpful and wondered what your thoughts are on stats for a healer, as healers don't need accuracy so there are more points to play with. Before 2.0 I went 50/50 alacrity/surge but at the moment my stats are all unoptimised so now's a good time for me to readdress the balance if need be.

 

I really don't do any healer theory crafting, I think keyboardninja has done some. If you want my best guess I'd say crit is more acceptable and you probably want about half surge and alacrity. I really think that healer stats are more theoretical. For me, as a healer, my goal is to make sure my heals hit quickly and effectively. Therefore, alacrity has raised importance, as it may save a life if the cast time is a fraction faster, which to me is more important than just heal per second.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Nibbon