Theorycrafting spreadsheet for 2.0 balance sage

[Hakkology]

I wanna stack power but i keep getting crits from my BM drops .

 

Is high crit actually useful for us ?

Edited April 12, 2013 by Hakkology

[Nibbon]

I wanna stack power but i keep getting crits from my BM drops .

 

Is high crit actually useful for us ?

 

Just think of it this way - for Every 100 or so power that goes to crit you are losing 17 or so dps. - Having one or two crit mods wont kill you if it helps upgrade your accuracy, or something along those lines (until you can upgrade to power accuracy).

[Hakkology]

http://www.torparse.com/a/178263/time/1365721185/1365721475/0/Overview

 

Willpower : 2795

Power : 530

Force Power : 1672

Accuracy : %107,89

Crit : %29,31

Surge : %67,61

Alacrity : %4,06

 

The number is 2123 dps, test has been done with no stim and the parse has been edited slightly due to 12 seconds combat time with weaken mind. I'm also lacking half of my augments, no set bonuses were present during this parse.

 

I'm mastering the rotation slowly, i should use MC more often instead of DT. Despite the 2 sec cast time it does good dps and i should have been able to cast Mental Alacrity 4 times, relic and potency 3 times in 5 minutes. MC reduces it's cooldown but it also has too long cast time . I also have %2,41 miss chance, TK wave has %8.7 miss chance... I decided to fully get accuracy items, this won't work otherwise.

 

Exo stim gives amazing boost, which makes me believe that the power and willpower are still truly important for us. I'm going to do more tests, better perfected rotations.

 

Willpower>Accuracy>Power>Alacrity>Surge>Crit

 

This is what i have in mind but

 

Willpower>Accuracy>Crit>Surge>Power>Alacrity

 

Is more like my current gear. This setup clearly lacks numbers and the momentum i'm looking for. The dps result actually proves that stacking crit is wrong. I need more power but every gear that drops seems to be giving crit .

 

I'm open for any advice and any feedback to improve the dps i'm doing, i'm almost 70% Black Market and the dps seems to low for this.

 

Note: I'm also getting stupid lagspikes like every ten seconds or so, this would have been a lot more different if i didn't have so much lag.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Hakkology

[darthjanus]

as requested ... one for TK:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgCWcFAbOaZwdEV3eGgyWDItUE8xczZ5dDNrSmRXdmc#gid=0

 

I feel like something is wrong, so don't take it as final. The highest parse on TK was 2660 - but looking at his log, he had a massive 40% crit chance on disturbance, so I think it was an exceptionally lucky log.

 

Also - and this is the bigger difference - TK has more things that effect your +dmg cooldowns (Mental alacrity) which allow you to use them more frequently. So the extra damage from offensive cooldowns will have a bigger effect on your TK rotation.

 

So the hypothetical DPS in this sheet (2520) - which mind you is only an average - could range from 2400-2700 for all we know - and realistically the 2520 average is lower than the "real" average when you throw in adrenal, mental alacrity, and force potency. I think those three things alone = 100-150 DPS which explains the 2660 parse.

 

The only odd thing is that balance seems to have the higher hypothetical DPS without the offensive cooldowns. I've noticed tiny mistakes here and there which had slight effects, but nothing major so far that has changed my opinion.

 

Hey Nibbon,

 

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but how do you get alacrity up to 6% with no alacrtity from gear. Does the 4% intrinsic you list reflect the set bonus?

 

Thanks

[Hakkology]

Nibbon, for balance, does alacrity affect your dots ? Like in the same interval, more ticks perhaps ?

[Nibbon]

Lots of posts since I last commented so I'll do my best to answer it all

 

Nibbon, for balance, does alacrity affect your dots ? Like in the same interval, more ticks perhaps ?

 

The answer here is no ;p The tooltips are accurate - if it says 18 seconds, you will see the damage distributed over the 18 seconds. SF has 7 ticks beginning on application and WM has 6 ticks beginning after application. They are not sped up by alacrity, which is a large reason why alacrity isn't that great for us

 

Hey Nibbon,

 

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but how do you get alacrity up to 6% with no alacrtity from gear. Does the 4% intrinsic you list reflect the set bonus?

 

Thanks

 

On the balance spreadsheet you have two skills in your skill tree that effect alacrity:

1. Force gift - this is a permanent 2%

2. telekinetic focal point - increases alacrity by 1%, up to 4 stacks, 100% chance on disturbance, 20% on TT - if you follow my advice on rotation (mixing in disturbances) you will have this at 4 stacks for the duration of a fight (besides when you build it up). The best way to mix this into the spreadsheet was by making it a static 4% gain, which it is, essentially.

 

I'll note that, set bonuses are not included in the spreadsheet - neither is force management, but I can assure you that both rotations listed will last you 10+ minutes in a boss fight if done right.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/178263/time/1365721185/1365721475/0/Overview

 

Willpower : 2795

Power : 530

Force Power : 1672

Accuracy : %107,89

Crit : %29,31

Surge : %67,61

Alacrity : %4,06

 

The number is 2123 dps, test has been done with no stim and the parse has been edited slightly due to 12 seconds combat time with weaken mind. I'm also lacking half of my augments, no set bonuses were present during this parse.

 

I'm mastering the rotation slowly, i should use MC more often instead of DT. Despite the 2 sec cast time it does good dps and i should have been able to cast Mental Alacrity 4 times, relic and potency 3 times in 5 minutes. MC reduces it's cooldown but it also has too long cast time . I also have %2,41 miss chance, TK wave has %8.7 miss chance... I decided to fully get accuracy items, this won't work otherwise.

 

Yeah, you want MC off cooldown unless you are about to lose a proc cast. TK wave isn't casted a lot so thats why the miss chance was higher than average (bad luck). To really get an accurate parse, you would need to do a really long parse But yes, I have been preaching full accuracy for most of these posts - 5 accuracy is the minimum (1% miss) but 6 is the best (which is a .03% miss chance or so at arkanian)

 

Exo stim gives amazing boost, which makes me believe that the power and willpower are still truly important for us. I'm going to do more tests, better perfected rotations.

 

Willpower>Accuracy>Power>Alacrity>Surge>Crit

 

This is what i have in mind but

 

Willpower>Accuracy>Crit>Surge>Power>Alacrity

 

This was the part I wanted to focus on, because there's a good bit wrong here.

 

First, of course willpower and power are important to us - they are and always have been are primary stats.

"Willpower>Accuracy>Power>Alacrity>Surge>Crit" is wrong on two ways - one is that the stats don't always balance against each other, two is the order in any case. Surge is more important than alacrity, so it would actually be:

Willpower>Accuracy>Power>Surge>Alacrity>Crit

 

But power and crit are on the same line and separate on their own line is accuracy, surge, and alacrity. Willpower sometimes balances against secondary stats or endurance - you always want the one with lowest endurance and higher secondary stats.

 

So really it is

power > crit

accuracy > surge > alacrity -- but I don't really like these types of generalizations, because the truth is it is just max accuracy, then get at least 3 surge ... 4th surge is better than 1 alacrity.

 

Is more like my current gear. This setup clearly lacks numbers and the momentum i'm looking for. The dps result actually proves that stacking crit is wrong. I need more power but every gear that drops seems to be giving crit .

 

I'm open for any advice and any feedback to improve the dps i'm doing, i'm almost 70% Black Market and the dps seems to low for this.

 

Note: I'm also getting stupid lagspikes like every ten seconds or so, this would have been a lot more different if i didn't have so much lag.

 

I've been saying this for a long time as well - crit is on a really bad curve now - crit is bad with the points given to us right now. It will be tough and take a lot of optimization, unfortunately.

 

Your dps is a bit low, but it sounds like you have a few gear optimizations to make before you can see by how much - plus not having the stim (hopefully you are at least testing with all buffs) is dropping your dps 70-100 (with new stim). Also you want to be using adrenals to be able to max that previous parse i linked. And obviously lag spikes or anything interrupting your rotation won't help to see if you are on the right track

[Hakkology]

Thank you very much for all the answers Nibbon, they really helped me to figure out some stuff with Telekinetics.

 

My previous parse was very low and it was extremely demotivating. but iI was able to see 2487 with the armor debuff+stim on a boss in a FP yesterday (new stim), a decent number if you ask me for BM gear and no set bonus with 3% miss chance (and a bit lucky shots).

 

Still, my dummy dps is not going any higher than 2250 (2212 is my best) "with" stim right now, which is very low and i'm starting to think i'm doing something wrong. I really need to focus more on power but EVERY BM gear that dropped gives crit at the moment. I use exo stim and no adrenals on my parses. I'm poor .

 

Also missing Weaken Mind makes me want to quit parsing .

 

I'm going to do more parses but i doubt any of these parses mean anything until the lag fades. We'll see...

 

Thanks again.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Hakkology

[Nibbon]

Thank you very much for all the answers Nibbon, they really helped me to figure out some stuff with Telekinetics.

 

My previous parse was very low and it was extremely demotivating. but iI was able to see 2487 with the armor debuff+stim on a boss in a FP yesterday (new stim), a decent number if you ask me for BM gear and no set bonus with 3% miss chance (and a bit lucky shots).

 

Still, my dummy dps is not going any higher than 2250 (2212 is my best) "with" stim right now, which is very low and i'm starting to think i'm doing something wrong. I really need to focus more on power but EVERY BM gear that dropped gives crit at the moment. I use exo stim and no adrenals on my parses. I'm poor .

 

Also missing Weaken Mind makes me want to quit parsing .

 

I'm going to do more parses but i doubt any of these parses mean anything until the lag fades. We'll see...

 

Thanks again.

 

no problem - don't be discouraged by your parse - 2250 I think is probably pretty good for where your gear is at. The 2-3 accuracy mods will make a huge difference - plus all the upgrades, you'll see a substantial jump.

[Wichahpi]

First, of course willpower and power are important to us - they are and always have been are primary stats.

"Willpower>Accuracy>Power>Alacrity>Surge>Crit" is wrong on two ways - one is that the stats don't always balance against each other, two is the order in any case. Surge is more important than alacrity, so it would actually be:

Willpower>Accuracy>Power>Surge>Alacrity>Crit

 

But power and crit are on the same line and separate on their own line is accuracy, surge, and alacrity. Willpower sometimes balances against secondary stats or endurance - you always want the one with lowest endurance and higher secondary stats.

 

So really it is

power > crit

accuracy > surge > alacrity -- but I don't really like these types of generalizations, because the truth is it is just max accuracy, then get at least 3 surge ... 4th surge is better than 1 alacrity.

I know noob question coming up but what do you mean by 4 surge , 1 alacrity and what is accuracy number 110%?

Edited April 14, 2013 by Wichahpi

[Shazzamx]

Hi everyone I only started playing about a month ago and I can see from all your posts that you are all experienced high end players, so please have patience with a first time poster.

 

I have played a few classes so far (highest assassin to 26) but fell in love with a Jedi Sage so am dedicating my time to that class.

 

Reading this thread and searching the internet I have learned a lot, but with the recent 2.0 I can't find any good guides to where I should prioritise my skill points when leveling up, so if anyone could point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thank you.

 

PS: Forgot to mention that I like the ballance spec that was posted by Nibbonm so my question regarding prioriticing is in regards to that. On a side note I can say that I have no interrest in PvP and enjoy soloing PvE and doing the storylines of the game.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Shazzamx

[Hakkology]

Hello Nibbon, another comment about TK .

 

Aggro is off the charts.

 

Back in vanilla, if i'm guarded i never had to use my cloud mind (perhaps once at start if i have to get in a fast burn phase) but now it is getting worse. Even if i'm guarded, i actively need to use cloud mind or i take aggro. As i get more gear and surge, i'm taking A LOT of aggro. I now see exactly why they gave us force barrier.

 

The funny part is, dps is still not that high but tanks are hating me already. They hate me coming as dps coz i pull A LOT of aggro. Turbulence aggro is off the charts ! Most of the time 40 seconds on Cloud Mind gets me in trouble and i have to pop a barrier. After the third cloud mind things calm down a bit but that's it.

 

I also need to solve this aggro management thingy, any advice is welcome.

Thank you.

[Nibbon]

I know noob question coming up but what do you mean by 4 surge , 1 alacrity and what is accuracy number 110%?

 

There are item slots that give 72 secondary stat at arkanian level - the enhancement slot from: mainhand, offhand, head, chest, gloves, boot, legs ... and your ear and two implants. So when I say 4 surge, I mean have surge on your ear and implants and 1 enhancement, or have 4 surge enhancements ... etc.

 

Hi everyone I only started playing about a month ago and I can see from all your posts that you are all experienced high end players, so please have patience with a first time poster.

 

I have played a few classes so far (highest assassin to 26) but fell in love with a Jedi Sage so am dedicating my time to that class.

 

Reading this thread and searching the internet I have learned a lot, but with the recent 2.0 I can't find any good guides to where I should prioritise my skill points when leveling up, so if anyone could point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thank you.

 

PS: Forgot to mention that I like the ballance spec that was posted by Nibbonm so my question regarding prioriticing is in regards to that. On a side note I can say that I have no interrest in PvP and enjoy soloing PvE and doing the storylines of the game.

 

Leveling is pretty easy in this game but as far as where to prioritize your skill points - going up the balance tree is fine. I guess I would go in this order:

will of the jedi x2

empowered throw x3

critical kinesis x2

drain thoughts x3

force in balance

telekinetic balance

 

and from there just keep going up the tree and eventually fill in from the bottom up favoring the right side. Other things may help while leveling (pinning resolve for example, is great for leveling) and you can always respec when you hit 50/55 to something more like what I have posted earlier.

 

Hope that helps.

[Nibbon]

Hello Nibbon, another comment about TK .

 

Aggro is off the charts.

 

Back in vanilla, if i'm guarded i never had to use my cloud mind (perhaps once at start if i have to get in a fast burn phase) but now it is getting worse. Even if i'm guarded, i actively need to use cloud mind or i take aggro. As i get more gear and surge, i'm taking A LOT of aggro. I now see exactly why they gave us force barrier.

 

The funny part is, dps is still not that high but tanks are hating me already. They hate me coming as dps coz i pull A LOT of aggro. Turbulence aggro is off the charts ! Most of the time 40 seconds on Cloud Mind gets me in trouble and i have to pop a barrier. After the third cloud mind things calm down a bit but that's it.

 

I also need to solve this aggro management thingy, any advice is welcome.

Thank you.

 

Well - a few things. Start using cloud mind earlier and regularly. Go slow to start (as in, dont immediately go into your rotation to allow the tanks to get a lead on aggro). Hold off on offensive cooldowns until your rotation begins. Things like that will help in raids.

 

If you have an AOE pack - don't aoe immediately - no tank can hold AOE threat that well.

 

And I disagree with you, it is kind of silly to say you arent putting out good DPS yet you are pulling aggro.

[Hakkology]

Well - a few things. Start using cloud mind earlier and regularly. Go slow to start (as in, dont immediately go into your rotation to allow the tanks to get a lead on aggro). Hold off on offensive cooldowns until your rotation begins. Things like that will help in raids.

 

If you have an AOE pack - don't aoe immediately - no tank can hold AOE threat that well.

 

And I disagree with you, it is kind of silly to say you arent putting out good DPS yet you are pulling aggro.

 

Ye i know it's silly but it's becoming more visible as i get more gear. It might also be connected to the tanks gear ofc.

 

I use cloud mind early. It's just that turbulence pulls LOTS of aggro and occasionally i find myself out of panic buttons.

 

We'll see, i need to implement a better timing for cloud mind as well .

[Nibbon]

Ye i know it's silly but it's becoming more visible as i get more gear. It might also be connected to the tanks gear ofc.

 

I use cloud mind early. It's just that turbulence pulls LOTS of aggro and occasionally i find myself out of panic buttons.

 

We'll see, i need to implement a better timing for cloud mind as well .

 

I don't think turbulence has any kind of extra aggro component - I think it just has a high amount of burst and is putting you over the aggro stealing threshold.

[KTap]

I'm looking into the relics a bit more:

 

The question is if the internal/elemental are better than the kinetic/energy for raiding. Internal is better than kinetic on the dummy, where you have no armor debuff - but when you have a 20% armor reduction on the boss - I believe kinetic is actually slightly better.

 

Math here is real simple

 

241 elemental at 0% DR

 

322 energy at 15% DR (this is the 35% normally found on a boss with 20% from sunder strike) = 322 * .85 = ~274 ... so in a raid situation this is hitting harder.

 

Quick question:

 

The new arkanian elemental relic does elemental tech damage, does not being force damage matter for accuracy or anything?

[CJNJ]

Quick question:

 

The new arkanian elemental relic does elemental tech damage, does not being force damage matter for accuracy or anything?

 

Yes, you lose 2 things from what I can see

 

1st you miss out on the crit chance from your mainstat, which is bad.

 

2nd you will miss out on the 3% force accuracy buff from Inner Strength, so there is a chance for the proc to get resisted

 

So use the relics that are considered force damage

[CJNJ]

I'm looking into the relics a bit more:

 

The question is if the internal/elemental are better than the kinetic/energy for raiding. Internal is better than kinetic on the dummy, where you have no armor debuff - but when you have a 20% armor reduction on the boss - I believe kinetic is actually slightly better.

 

Math here is real simple

 

241 elemental at 0% DR

 

322 energy at 15% DR (this is the 35% normally found on a boss with 20% from sunder strike) = 322 * .85 = ~274 ... so in a raid situation this is hitting harder.

 

I think your math is wrong, sunder strike reduces armor rating by 20%, not DR by 20%. To find how much DR gets reduced you do .35 * .8 = .28

 

then you do 322 * (1 - .28) = ~232

 

This puts the internal/elemental over the kinetic/energy one

 

If you add +10% armor penetration then K/E > I/E

Edited April 15, 2013 by CJNJ

[Nibbon]

I think your math is wrong, sunder strike reduces armor rating by 20%, not DR by 20%. To find how much DR gets reduced you do .35 * .8 = .28

 

then you do 322 * (1 - .28) = ~232

 

This puts the internal/elemental over the kinetic/energy one

 

If you add +10% armor penetration then K/E > I/E

 

Thanks for the clarification, in that case, I agree

[Nibbon]

Yes, you lose 2 things from what I can see

 

1st you miss out on the crit chance from your mainstat, which is bad.

 

2nd you will miss out on the 3% force accuracy buff from Inner Strength, so there is a chance for the proc to get resisted

 

So use the relics that are considered force damage

 

 

It doesn't do tech, it does force - I know because I have one and it says force :-D If it did tech, what CJNJ said is correct - you lose out on crit chance and accuracy.

[bbrooks]

Just curious as to what you guys think of the proc power relic. I won the underworld relic tonight and am pretty sure the proc power one is the one I'm going to take/ Think its 30% chance to proc 550 power for 6 seconds. Cant occur more than once every 20 seconds.

 

Seems like just at face value it would be the best proc one. Just curious to see some actual smart people math!

[Nibbon]

Just curious as to what you guys think of the proc power relic. I won the underworld relic tonight and am pretty sure the proc power one is the one I'm going to take/ Think its 30% chance to proc 550 power for 6 seconds. Cant occur more than once every 20 seconds.

 

Seems like just at face value it would be the best proc one. Just curious to see some actual smart people math!

 

I think you are confusing two different relics. Confirm for me then I'll comment. The power click relic is probably the best though.

[Stoofa]

So, I'm still deciding upon a build to use.

I played with the 3-36-7 TK build over the weekend and I liked it. Although I did find I wasn't performing in WZ's as well as in the past. I'm still trying to get used to using Disturbance over Project - I've thrown so many rocks since day 1 it's difficult getting out of the habit.

I'm looking at giving a Balance spec a try now and see how that goes. Looking over at the Sorcerer forums I saw the following build posted:

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000303120102120212023021020000000003220102013100010000000000000000&ver=20

 

It should be easy to see where that sits on a Sage tree. Any comments on this build at all?

[Nibbon]

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000303120102120212023021020000000003220102013100010000000000000000&ver=20

 

It should be easy to see where that sits on a Sage tree. Any comments on this build at all?

 

It probably wouldn't be too hard to tweak the spreadsheet to find out, but I'm not going to.

 

Obviously - you won't have turbulence, but you'd have this weird situation where you have TT and disturbance sort of at odds with one another. I guess this build calls for casting TT as your filler and then disturbances off procs (mixed in with your MC). MC will do more damage because of proc, as will disturbance. Separately, you have TK wave procs - but that probably won't be proccing as often. Your dots will be a lot weaker since you dont have the amplification from FiB - yet you still have FiB.

 

My guess is this has an excellent AOE DPS - so it could be useful on fights like kephess in EC. I can see the appeal in this spec and can see why it might do some good DPS. I'm not sure this is the same hybrid that elidhu plays/tested on PTS (that spec didn't seem to hold up greatly).

 

It would probably be more effort for me to try to figure it out rather than you go and test it on a dummy, so I say, go and test it on a dummy and let us know how it goes compared to the others

[bbrooks]

I think you are confusing two different relics. Confirm for me then I'll comment. The power click relic is probably the best though.

 

I'm having trouble finding a website with 2.0 items on it, but I'm currently on my sorc and can link you the stats. There is also an arkanian version of this relic that dropped off SM dread guards in TFB. For some reason the arkanian one is not on the vendor but the underworld one is.

 

Underworld Relic of Serendipitous Assault:

 

"Healing an ally or preforming a damaging attack on an enemy have a 30% chance to grant 550 power for 6 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 20 seconds, and shares limits with similar healing and damaging effects. It will not trigger inside of a PVP zone."