Why just one new species?

[Pilisim]

Personally, I think this is the wrong way to do... they should have AT LEAST add another species for empire. Not just one species that all the players will create cause there is no other choice. What do you think? This is not a bit poor for an expansion?

[jgoldsack]

Personally, I think this is the wrong way to do... they should have AT LEAST add another species for empire. Not just one species that all the players will create cause there is no other choice. What do you think? This is not a bit poor for an expansion?

 

Cathar have been in development for almsot a year now. They stated they are doing 1 to "test the waters", and will add more down the road depending on how cathar perform.

 

Cathar were not developed specific for the expansion... it just happened to be the most appropriate time to get it added, and it will be added AFTER the expansion comes out, not at the same time.

 

Personally, I do not like Cathar, so I will not make one anyway.

[AlienEyeTX]

Personally, I think this is the wrong way to do... they should have AT LEAST add another species for empire. Not just one species that all the players will create cause there is no other choice. What do you think? This is not a bit poor for an expansion?

 

*shrug* I'm not bothered by it. I won't be creating a Cathar character. I wish they had done a more "iconic" species like rodian, jawa, or wookie (yes, I know the reasons, I just wish they had used one anyway).

[PariahMessiah]

Imps also have 3 imperial specific races at the moment. Red Guys, Blue Guys and Pale Guys. Republic has Two: Blind Guys and Green Guys.

[Andryah]

Imps also have 3 imperial specific races at the moment. Red Guys, Blue Guys and Pale Guys. Republic has Two: Blind Guys and Green Guys.

 

Well played.

[Lunafox]

More species are important, but more so, are more classes with new stories, and the ability for people who play smugs and bh to work for the side they want. I had an imperial smug in SWG, and I liked it. I'm an Imperial/Sith player and proud of it. Kinda sux that I have to play for the opposing faction to get a taste for the story...not to mention I've rolled like a zillion alts, and truly what needs to be done to keep things interesting are new classes...species too, but for me, they're secondary.

[Darth-Obvious]

Personally, I think this is the wrong way to do... they should have AT LEAST add another species for empire. Not just one species that all the players will create cause there is no other choice. What do you think? This is not a bit poor for an expansion?

 

The Cathar seemed like they'd be an easy thing to add to the game, but at this point I gotta imagine that it was more difficult and time consuming for Bioware to add them than they originally planned/thought. This would explain why they've taken so long, are a CM item, and why future races depend on their success.

 

As for adding 1 Empire species and 1 Republic species, what does that matter now that you can unlock any species you want with credits/cartel coins?

 

Also they're not part of the expansion pack. Alot of people assumed that all the content shown in the E3 video last year was going to be part of a single expansion/patch when all they and the trailer stated was "Coming to SWTOR by the end of 2012."

 

More species are important, but more so, are more classes with new stories, and the ability for people who play smugs and bh to work for the side they want. I had an imperial smug in SWG, and I liked it. I'm an Imperial/Sith player and proud of it. Kinda sux that I have to play for the opposing faction to get a taste for the story...not to mention I've rolled like a zillion alts, and truly what needs to be done to keep things interesting are new classes...species too, but for me, they're secondary.

 

They're not going add new classes or faction changes or anything like that. It be way too expensive and they'd have to rework or completely redo or add so much content for that to be possible.

 

The only way they could do faction changes at this point would be post level 50 content or 55 content rather since RoTHC is done.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Darth-Obvious

[Tatile]

Imps also have 3 imperial specific races at the moment. Red Guys, Blue Guys and Pale Guys. Republic has Two: Blind Guys and Green Guys.

 

The Empire... has more aliens than the Republic. Strange that.

 

Besides, Op, you're assuming that everyone will like how the Cathar turn out. It's more than likely many of the species' original fans will be disappointed and rage all over the forums. I remember when we got that tiny sneak peak of a Cathar, and loads of people stated that it just looked like a dude in face paint.

[Pscyon]

Cathar have been in development for almsot a year now. They stated they are doing 1 to "test the waters", and will add more down the road depending on how cathar perform.

 

Cathar were not developed specific for the expansion... it just happened to be the most appropriate time to get it added, and it will be added AFTER the expansion comes out, not at the same time.

 

Unfortunately, this is correct. Whether or not they'll add more species depends on how well the Cathar does. So I'll be buying it regardless hoping it will nudge the money counter towards making more. Of course that probably has the unfortunate side effect of that if it IS profitable, they'll keep adding races to the cartel market rather than in expansions.

[JekRendar]

If it's any consolation, the Original Star Wars MMO only introduced two new Species over its nearly nine years of existence. (And even the Sullustans and Mon Cals came nearly 18 months later.)

[CelCawdro]

Theoretically, to work out all the kinks in the process with a safe choice before they start implementing more-problematic species. Methinks they've run into a few more than anticipated, but if that brings subsequent species sooner, so be it. Edited March 28, 2013 by CelCawdro

[LadyDrusilla]

I'll buy the cathar unlock just to encourage them to do more species, I want Togruta.

[Gwena]

To answer the title question, the cynic in me would say that it is already taking them so long for one new species, if they added two at once we probably wouldn't see them until next spring. And as has been mentioned, since they are going in the cartel shop there is no need to add one to each faction for balance (heck, there wouldn't be anyway, as the Empire has more unique species already, lol).

 

Also, Cathar are an easier species to add, and most of the other highly requested ones are not. Ones like Togruta and Nautolan might seem easy too, but if you look at the way their head tentacle thingies lie on their shoulders, it becomes apparent that they would have loads of clipping issues due to all the, ahem "shoulder decor" that the armor in this game has.

[Sutaka]

The Empire... has more aliens than the Republic. Strange that.

 

Besides, Op, you're assuming that everyone will like how the Cathar turn out. It's more than likely many of the species' original fans will be disappointed and rage all over the forums. I remember when we got that tiny sneak peak of a Cathar, and loads of people stated that it just looked like a dude in face paint.

 

I wouldn't count SIth Purebloods as Aliens in their own Empire.

[Daynna]

Imps also have 3 imperial specific races at the moment. Red Guys, Blue Guys and Pale Guys. Republic has Two: Blind Guys and Green Guys.

Such a simple yet eloquent answer deserves a cookie, u fortunately I don't have any. I did laugh though.

[Kahotep]

*shrug* I'm not bothered by it. I won't be creating a Cathar character. I wish they had done a more "iconic" species like rodian, jawa, or wookie (yes, I know the reasons, I just wish they had used one anyway).

 

I don't think Cathar will be a huge success at all because they're just not Star Warsy enough. What worries me is that by making Cathar the 'suck it and see' race, BW will think that people are not interested in new races.

 

I won't be buying the Cathar, but I would have paid for Rodians or Weequay or, indeed, many other races from the movies.

 

Right now, the only two playable races which feel iconicly Star Wars to me are Twi'leks and ... well ... humans. That won't be changing after the Cathar come along.

[RamathRS]

What does it matter if we get 3924523945872395723957832459873459238759238475 new species?

 

Every humanoid model in the game, shares the EXACT SAME skeleton/rig/animation set. You have droids leaning up against the wall like a human. None of the playable races are different in any way, shape or form. Put a helmet on, and you have no idea what they are.

 

It doesn't matter that they add new races. There is no point. Every character is the same.

 

BW has made a cheap, worthless piece of **** and keep trying to call it a game. They are lazy and keep looking to take the fast and easy way out. It never ceases to amaze me how people think this is a good game.

[Darth-Obvious]

Unfortunately, this is correct. Whether or not they'll add more species depends on how well the Cathar does. So I'll be buying it regardless hoping it will nudge the money counter towards making more. Of course that probably has the unfortunate side effect of that if it IS profitable, they'll keep adding races to the cartel market rather than in expansions.

 

They're never going to expansion packs the way WoW does.

 

People have this standardized notion of what an expansion pack is or should be (for an MMO) primarily based on what WoW has done, although people are quick to forget that Wrath of The Lich King didn't add a new race, but that "standard" is not part of the F2P MMO structure.

 

Take a look at the MMOs that became F2P and have been around for a little while now and you'll notice that they all kind of do the samething in terms of what they sell and the new content they produce. Think about this. When was the last time that a currently existing MMO that went F2P (Champions, Star Trek, etc) released a boxed product? Hell how often do you even hear the term "Expansion Pack" anymore when it comes to a current gaming product?

 

I don't think Cathar will be a huge success at all because they're just not Star Warsy enough. What worries me is that by making Cathar the 'suck it and see' race, BW will think that people are not interested in new races.

 

There's no way the Cathar won't sell.

 

You're looking at this from a fiction/franchise stand point and forgetting about the fact that this is a video game. Note a video game that people spend 100s of hours playing who are very used to seeing the same vanilla species over and over and over again.

 

The Cathar offers a new visual aesthetic. It doesn't matter if it's a cat person, or "Star Warsy" or whatever. People will buy the race simply to have something new to play with even though they are just new skins.

 

Also going by your logic of "Star Warsy enough" there would be alot of stuff that's been sold or being sold on the Cartel Market that wouldn't sell.

 

Right now, the only two playable races which feel iconicly Star Wars to me are Twi'leks and ... well ... humans. That won't be changing after the Cathar come along.

 

But there are alot of players who play as other species other than human and Twilek right? So *** does it matter what you think/feel is Star Warsy and what isn't? Not everybody shares the same point of view as you or plays the game for the same reason(s)

Edited March 28, 2013 by Darth-Obvious

[Darth-Obvious]

It never ceases to amaze me how people think this is a good game.

 

And it never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who either don't play the game or don't like the game will constantly post/complain about it. This applies to all games, not just this one.

 

Seriously this is the best use of your time? Why devote so much time and attention to something you don't like?

 

In terms of entertainment there are lots of games, movies, TV shows, etc, that you could be experiencing and enjoying opposed to posting on a forum.

 

You're the type of person that will complain that they never have enough time to play X game(s) or watch whatever TV show they keep hearing about, but then will go to great lengths or take all the time in the world to complain about something on a forum about something that in the end doesn't really matter.

 

A year from now are you going to look back on any of this and think "I spent my time wisely." ?

[killmaimburn]

BW has made a cheap, worthless piece of **** and keep trying to call it a game. They are lazy and keep looking to take the fast and easy way out. It never ceases to amaze me how people think this is a good game.

 

It's wow with lightsabres. And the cathar are disappointing. I have never had the inclination to play as a furry in any game ever. The toons that look like demons. Oh sure. But people with whiskers, no, not so much. From what I've seen in the movies... I don't think cathar play a part in any of them. I've never seen a cathar character in any of the 6 movies. I've seen the fish dude that yells "It's a trap!", but no whiskered people. Not only that, what the heck is the back story that is going to make cathar interesting to play as? Oh they're like people, cat people. ... <<<< That's the back story. Mandelorians would of been a more interesting choice, but the lore says that Mandalorians are no longer a race of people. Now it's more like a social club of ill tempered gung ho types. I honestly think cathar are for care bears and children. There's nothing interesting about them.

 

I honestly would rather play as Jar Jar. ... But then that whole racist Jar Jar argument would come back into play. Which is another thing I never understood. What the hell race of people are offended by Jar Jar Binks? Gungans didn't fit the mold of any people on earth I can think of.

 

Oh yea. Since most of the races in the game are bipdeal humanoids, reskinning shouldn't be too hard. When are we going to get something unique or different? I'm not expecting this.I know it will never happen. But I believe that's what alot of people want to see. Something that doesn't just look human with a different face texture. Comparing this game to other mmos is an apples to oranges comparison. That doesn't mean we want to forever see what is easy to retexture. The game we got was a rush delivery. The races choice was a rush development seeing as when you wear a full suit of armor, all races look the same.

Edited March 28, 2013 by killmaimburn

[MGriffith]

Personally, I think this is the wrong way to do... they should have AT LEAST add another species for empire. Not just one species that all the players will create cause there is no other choice. What do you think? This is not a bit poor for an expansion?

 

The Cathar are not added for the expansion. They would have been added earlier, according to the original development plan, but ... downsizing happens.

They start with one new species because adding them is kind of expensive in terms of art assets and fixing dialogs, so Bioware wiill first look if they can a profit on that investment. That is also why you have to buy the species through the cartel market. Makes it easier to track how much people are willing to pay for a new speicies.

And they picked Cathar because, at the time of polling, that was the popular choice, though it has since then been superceded by several other species.

[MGriffith]

It's wow with lightsabres. And the cathar are disappointing. I have never had the inclination to play as a furry in any game ever.

The toons that look like demons. Oh sure. But people with whiskers, no, not so much.

 

But you do not get to tell other players what they may or may not (like to) play. Believe it or not, at the time that Bioware made the decision to have the Cathar as the next playable race it was the most popular choice.

 

From what I've seen in the movies... I don't think cathar play a part in any of them. I've never seen a cathar character in any of the 6 movies.

 

Yeah, well, if we can only go by what was in the movies then the game would be overrun with cute little koala bears and Jar Jar Binks. And wouldn't that have been a reason to ritually burn the game in front of the Bioware offices.

There is tons of things in this game that are not in any of the movies. The entire 3000 years before the movies thing means that in fact the entire game is not in the movies. Sith as a species were not in the movies. Ratataka, were not the movies, Chiss were not in the movies. Pretty much everything not human that is playable in the empire was not in the movies, and only humans and Twi'lek on the republic side were.

Most of the official canon does, in fact, come from the extended universe novels and comics. And in those the Cathar featured prominently, as did most of the playable races we do have.

 

I've seen the fish dude that yells "It's a trap!", but no whiskered people. Not only that, what the heck is the back story that is going to make cathar interesting to play as? Oh they're like people, cat people. ... <<<< That's the back story.

 

Actually, if you have read the extended universe stories in which they featured you knew that they do have an extensive backstory. There are even allusions made to it in the game.

 

Mandelorians would of been a more interesting choice, but the lore says that Mandalorians are no longer a race of people. Now it's more like a social club of ill tempered gung ho types. I honestly think cathar are for care bears and children. There's nothing interesting about them.

 

There is nothing interesting about them -to you-. Quite a few people would respectfully disagree with you.

 

I honestly would rather play as Jar Jar. ... But then that whole racist Jar Jar argument would come back into play. Which is another thing I never understood. What the hell race of people are offended by Jar Jar Binks? Gungans didn't fit the mold of any people on earth I can think of.

 

Maybe it was the way it appeared to be a stereotypical carribean islander?

Mostly though it was because the character was that annoying and out of place as a slapstick character in an otherwise fairly serious story.

 

Oh yea. Since most of the races in the game are bipdeal humanoids, reskinning shouldn't be too hard.

 

Unfortunately there is always a difference betwenen should not and actually is not. Or: the difference between theory and practice is a lot bigger in practice than in theory.

 

When are we going to get something unique or different? I'm not expecting this.I know it will never happen. But I believe that's what alot of people want to see. Something that doesn't just look human with a different face texture. Comparing this game to other mmos is an apples to oranges comparison. That doesn't mean we want to forever see what is easy to retexture. The game we got was a rush delivery. The races choice was a rush development seeing as when you wear a full suit of armor, all races look the same.

 

Adding a radically different species is prohibitively expensive. A unibody allows a single piece of each item of clothes and gears to be designed and be reasonably certain that it will fit on the shapes that the unibody can be contorted into. Right now that means Bioware needs to create a male and a female version of everything.

Adding a race with a radically different body doubles that effort. If, as is likely, the body has a different skeletal structure they also need to redo the entire range of animations. Which will push the cost up in the hundreds of thousands (unless the skeleton is so different that no mocap is possible, then it will be even more expensive and time consuming).

 

And it was not exactly a rush job, most games in development for the past half a decade have opted from a unibody to cut cost and speed up development. And this is not just for the initial development of the game but for every new content that will be added after launch. Without knowing exactly how the animation skeleton is rigged to a model mesh and how, and which, maps are folded over the mesh, it is impossible to say how much work it is to sufficiently alter body shapes without causing too severe distortion. Polygons that aren't there to begin with can not be stretched into new shapes without causing exceedingly ugly results. And since polygons in games always are at a premium artists are always under pressure to reduce them further, so as to allow the game to show more distinct entities at the same time. This does come at the price of the models being less flexible when it comes to animations and deforming them into new shapes.

[weapon_x]

Unfortunately, this is correct. Whether or not they'll add more species depends on how well the Cathar does. So I'll be buying it regardless hoping it will nudge the money counter towards making more. Of course that probably has the unfortunate side effect of that if it IS profitable, they'll keep adding races to the cartel market rather than in expansions.

 

This right here is the problem. Allowing yourselves to be bullied into buying the product. They've made it quite clear that they won't make any more species if the Cathar aren't a monetary success, essentially forcing people to buy it out of fear of not getting anymore species by holding them hostage. It's disgusting.

 

Businesses aren't supposed to control us, we're supposed to control them. We have the money. As soon as it was released that the Cathar would not be free (at least for subscribers), there should have been a mass cancellation. You want to see a business change their policy? Take their money away. It happens all the time when people want to make a statement.

 

Unfortunately, the consumer market is full of idiots and betas that allow themselves to be manipulated into whatever the business wants.

Edited March 28, 2013 by weapon_x

[Darth-Obvious]

It's wow with lightsabres. And the cathar are disappointing. I have never had the inclination to play as a furry in any game ever.

 

Oh I get it you feel like if you play as something that has fur on it then that automatically says something about you as person. I can't play as that because then because then everybody will think I'm "one of those" type people.

 

The toons that look like demons. Oh sure

 

Cause toons that look like demons are metal and make you feel bad *** right?

 

From what I've seen in the movies... I don't think cathar play a part in any of them. I've never seen a cathar character in any of the 6 movies.

 

Yeah, thus far this game or the Knights of The Old Republic series as a whole has only featured content found in the 6 movies.

 

I've seen the fish dude that yells "It's a trap!", but no whiskered people.

 

Except the fish dude that yells it's a trap actually has whiskers.

 

Not only that, what the heck is the back story that is going to make cathar interesting to play as?

 

*** does it matter? Since when has race been an important factor in this game's story? Or when does the backstory of your character's race come up in this game?

 

Have you actually played this game? It's not like other MMOs where there's a major distinction between races. The races are all just skins really. The big separation in TOR is between class types.

 

Mandelorians would of been a more interesting choice,

 

Oh you mean humans?

 

but the lore says that Mandalorians are no longer a race of people. Now it's more like a social club of ill tempered gung ho types. I honestly think cathar are for care bears and children. There's nothing interesting about them.

 

You seem to be under the impression that the races or a new additional race will be anything more than a skin.

 

They're not recording new VO for Cathars, they'll still use the class voices just like every other race. You're also not going to start seeing a bunch of existing (quest giver) NPCs suddenly recognize the fact that you're a Cathar.

 

They might have altered or recorded some very minor stuff for some of the conversations on Taris and/or the companion Aric, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

 

I honestly would rather play as Jar Jar. ... But then that whole racist Jar Jar argument would come back into play.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what would happen.

 

Oh yea. Since most of the races in the game are bipdeal humanoids, reskinning shouldn't be too hard.

 

Adding the Cathar as simple as it seems to all of us must have been more difficult than Bioware had originally planned.

 

It doesn't occur to you that the Cathar were announced almost a year ago at this point and yet something that's just simply "reskinning" won't be released sometime until the summer, ie a year later from when they were announced. Given that, and the fact that you'll have to pay for them, and that they'll decide the fate of future races there was obviously some part of the process that was really difficult, whether it was a coding issue, or getting the game to recognize a new race, or it was facial animation stuff, or whatever, there was obviously some difficulty with them.

 

The good thing about them starting with the Cathar is that they are closer to humans than just about any other race that people want which makes them easier in a certain regard and now that they've done the Cathar it will make the process of any future race easier and smoother.

 

It would've been insane to start with a more difficult race, because it's something they could've ended up abandoning.

 

When are we going to get something unique or different? I'm not expecting this.I know it will never happen. But I believe that's what alot of people want to see. Something that doesn't just look human with a different face texture. Comparing this game to other mmos is an apples to oranges comparison. That doesn't mean we want to forever see what is easy to retexture. The game we got was a rush delivery. The races choice was a rush development seeing as when you wear a full suit of armor, all races look the same.

 

It's a class based game, not a race based game. Race as I explained above isn't really a factor in TOR. Yes, it would've been nice however the game is currently at a point or designed in such a way where they can't just add things like Wookies, Jawas, etc. Whatever new races they add need to be able to use the existing body types because that's what all the animations, art assets/armors, and cutscenes are built around. Like you can't do any races that are taller or shorter because all the cutscenes in the game are frame a specific way.

 

TOR obviously isn't going to be exactly the game you want it to be, go figure, and that's not going to change no matter how much you complain about it or how ignorant you remain about it.

[Kunixp]

What does it matter if we get 3924523945872395723957832459873459238759238475 new species?

 

Every humanoid model in the game, shares the EXACT SAME skeleton/rig/animation set. You have droids leaning up against the wall like a human. None of the playable races are different in any way, shape or form. Put a helmet on, and you have no idea what they are.

 

It doesn't matter that they add new races. There is no point. Every character is the same.

 

BW has made a cheap, worthless piece of **** and keep trying to call it a game. They are lazy and keep looking to take the fast and easy way out. It never ceases to amaze me how people think this is a good game.

 

Then to quote the immortal Eddie Murphy Have a coke and a smile and S T F U. Yes he did say it, making fun of Bill Cosby for all you kids that wouldnt remember EITHER reference

Edited March 28, 2013 by Kunixp