In Game, Don't Be A Jerk And Heal Mobs!

[Raideag]

The many times this sort of thing happened to me the person healing the mob was already flagged PvP trying to get me to flag on a PvE server. Which I do agree with, if you want to PvP like that then role on a PvP server. Don't mess with people like that on a PvE server trying to do quests.

 

Every person has a different idea of what fun is, even if you think it's funny it probably isn't funny for the other person involved. Always try to do some role reversal before doing any actions you might think is funny.

[LanceCorporalDan]

The many times this sort of thing happened to me the person healing the mob was already flagged PvP trying to get me to flag on a PvE server. Which I do agree with, if you want to PvP like that then role on a PvP server. Don't mess with people like that on a PvE server trying to do quests.

 

Every person has a different idea of what fun is, even if you think it's funny it probably isn't funny for the other person involved. Always try to do some role reversal before doing any actions you might think is funny.

 

Did you mean to say:

 

Which I don't agree with,

?

 

Kinda confused me.

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

This is a role playing game. If you choose to be immersed into it you support your faction be it npc and player.

 

Also ... I healed mobs with my Operative just in case someone heads to the forums to whine like this person did

 

I'm going to ask you the same thing I've asked someone else: how does this kind of roleplaying work? You're able to help your allies by healing them, but you can't be attacked for it? How? Flag yourself for PVP if you're going to use "roleplaying" as an excuse so the enemy player can react accordingly and attack everyone involved in the battle. It still won't be a particularly fair battle, but at least then you can claim to be roleplaying. (Unless of course you're roleplaying as a coward, too scared to leave their gameplay-bestowed sphere of invulnerability.)

[LanceCorporalDan]

What does make sense? You lost me there.

 

Are Empire an Rebublic not supposed to be mortal enemies, regardless of the server type? Are mortal enemies not supposed to make each others live difficult?

 

This wasn't on a pvp server, therefore all actions taken agaisnt Empire/Reublic are normally done through PvE fights/instances/raids and with no interaction with the other faction's players in terms of conflict.

 

Unless both players agree to said conflicts.

 

On a PvP server it would be different. But this was not a PvP server.

Edited March 28, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

[Emencie]

The many times this sort of thing happened to me the person healing the mob was already flagged PvP trying to get me to flag on a PvE server. Which I do agree with, if you want to PvP like that then role on a PvP server. Don't mess with people like that on a PvE server trying to do quests.

I've been thinking this the whole time...

 

People keep saying. on a PvE server flag first so that the person can at least attack you back. I'm a heavy PvPer that plays on a PvE server and while I consider this action amusing in a guilty dark humor way, I also would go as far as calling it griefing.

 

However the Idea that if you flag yourself then its OK is just laughable. The people that come here to cry about this are also the people that will not flag themselves to PvP on a PvE server. So flag away heal up that friendly mob. I'm in the camp of Red = Dead most of the time... (I have to behave when the wife is with me) So I'll turn around and kill you. But these people know that many if not most PvE players are not going to attack back. That's why they are doing it in the first place like a bully on the schoolyard they know you cant fight back and even if you can... you wont.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Emencie

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

I've been thinking this the whole time...

 

People keep saying. on a PvE server flag first so that the person can at least attack you back. I'm a heavy PvPer that plays on a PvE server and while I consider this action amusing in a guilty dark humor way, I also would go as far as calling it griefing.

 

However the Idea that if you flag yourself then its OK is just laughable. The people that come here to cry about this are also the people that will not flag themselves to PvP on a PvE server. So flag away heal up that friendly mob. I'm in the camp of Red = Dead most of the time... (I have to behave when the wife is with me) So I'll turn around and kill you. But these people know that many if not most PvE players are not going to attack back. That's why they are doing it in the first place like a bully on the schoolyard they know you cant fight back and even if you cant... you wont.

 

True. If someone plays PVP even semi-regularly, I have no doubt they could take me out easily. Would I still attack someone healing mobs I'm trying to kill? Absolutely. If they kill me, fine. (Unless it's a level 30 area and they're level 50 in which case we're right back at griefing as the PVP flag is meaningless in that scenario.)

 

It's still much, much better than someone just healing the mobs without flagging themselves. I would prefer people not to do this at all, but clearly that's not going to happen.

[Pscyon]

You're gnawing level about this thread it's over 9000! Yeah i know it's a bit old, but it still make me laugh.

 

I have no idea what a "gnawing level" is. I highly suspect you made it up just now or you dragged it along with you from stupidland aka 4chan where you also got your "over 9000" meme. And that certainly isn't the height of maturity which you seem concerned with.

 

I have no stake in this. Noone's wasted their time healing my enemies trying to get me killed (if someone did I'd just cast Whirlwind on the enemy and wait the whole situation out). In fact it doesn't seem to have happened to most people in the thread, so there's not many people "crying" about it. I have neither condoned or condemned this thing, I've made roughly the following statements in here, with all but the first one being somewhat factual:

 

"Maybe the guy was RP'ing :p"

"People have different ideas on what RPing is. What's considered griefing isn't well documented but it's doubtful the guy did it for any particularily good reason"

"Whether or not something is harassment depends on the spesific response from a GM to the spesific incident"

"A player's age have little to do with how they act online"

"Changing instance isn't an option just because you say it is"

What's make me laugh even more it's that (i'm not refering to you in particular) people talk about being immature when obviously their acting like a child. 12 pages of thread because some bad bad boy is healing your mob? Should i call his mommy and tell her he has to stop to be bad at you?

Come on! Really you can't get over it with a fu***** laugh?

 

Why not apply this to anyone writing threads about anything of which they disapprove? For instance I could go into the threads the PvPers keep making whenever they want a class or ability nerfed to the detriment of everyone and go "Man, seriously, several pages worth of crying over this? Should I call your opponents' mommies and tell them their children has to stop being mean to you? Get over it with a *********** laugh!"... nah, it makes more sense to just ignore those threads.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Pscyon

[scarlet_magpie]

I

 

In my opinion, doing so should flag you for PVP.

 

this!

[Tulith]

http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/

 

I refer you to Section 11 of the Terms of Service, and I quote:

 

"You may violate the Terms of Service if, as determined by EA in its sole discretion, you:"

(redacted)

 

"- Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing an EA Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide an EA Service for the enjoyment of all its users. "

 

and (another redaction)

 

"- “Role–playing” is not an excuse for violating this or any other policy. "

 

Pure and simple, and a by-letter violation of the ToS. Report and move on.

 

By-letter? If i always die in pvp probably i'm not enjoying so what? If i whipe in a run i'm not enjoying.

So by-letter biowere should ban pvp and run? Come on be serious.

Just saying that's not a rules that admit by-letter interpretations.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Tulith

[Arutar]

This wasn't on a pvp server, therefore all actions taken agaisnt Empire/Reublic are normally done through PvE fights/instances/raids and with no interaction with the other faction's players in terms of conflict.

 

Unless both players agree to said conflicts.

 

 

This is your personal definition of a pve server.

 

But as long as this is not the offical definintion (i.e. "there shall be no interaction between player of opposing factions unless both parties explicitly agree to it"), we are moving in circles.

 

The best thing would be that healing mobs you are fighting flags the healing player. And if that would have been the title and the content of this post, I supoose there would be few to argue against.

[Darslk]

This thread is still up? This is just embarrassing at this point. Can we all just agree to disagree, if after 15 pages people still think they can heal NPC's fair and square, you're not going to change their minds.

 

And of course, it is awesomely fun on a PvP server. I recommend "dealing with it".

[Malastare]

This is a role playing game. If you choose to be immersed into it you support your faction be it npc and player.

 

What's your roleplaying reason for being untargetable and immune to damage? Can your "enemy" use that same justification?

[LanceCorporalDan]

This is your personal definition of a pve server.

 

But as long as this is not the offical definintion (i.e. "there shall be no interaction between player of opposing factions unless both parties explicitly agree to it"), we are moving in circles.

 

The best thing would be that healing mobs you are fighting flags the healing player. And if that would have been the title and the content of this post, I supoose there would be few to argue against.

 

That is the point I'm making. Desiring conflict with another player should flag the previous player for PvP. Inadvertently fighting another player without being flagged is wrong in my opinion, and something I think BW has overlooked.

[Emencie]

That is the point I'm making. Desiring conflict with another player should flag the previous player for PvP. Inadvertently fighting another player without being flagged is wrong in my opinion, and something I think BW has overlooked.

Again I have to say. This wouldn't fix the OPs problem at all. Like was said before. People do this already, healing a mob while flagged to entice a PvE player into flagging themselves.

 

Generally speaking the people looking to avoid this issue don't want to avoid it though attempting to kill the person responsible. And flagging that person automatically just means they are now flagged for their actions, while still standing there lol-healing the NPCs.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Again I have to say. This wouldn't fix the OPs problem at all. Like was said before. People do this already, healing a mob while flagged to entice a PvE player into flagging themselves.

 

Generally speaking the people looking to avoid this issue don't want to avoid it though attempting to kill the person responsible. And flagging that person automatically just means they are now flagged for their actions, while still standing there lol-healing the NPCs.

 

Then what fix is there?

[Pscyon]

Then what fix is there?

 

When a NPC is tagged, make it unhealable/unbuffable for the ones that didn't tag it. Other MMORPGs does it. That doesn't neccessarily mean it's easy to implement in TOR depending on engine and coding and whatnot, but it's the best solution.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Pscyon

[Tulith]

Honestly, i've done this a couple of time, waiting for start a "run" for Xeno, i was there with from 10 to 16 players of my guild what do you think it would happen in that situation if someone choose to flag himself and start trying to kill me?

Or better if someone with a healer lvl 50 choose to heal the mob on tatooine flagging him will resolve the situation? Are you sure?

The point is in this games learning to laugh of such things and do not take it too seriously is the best way to resolve them.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Tulith

[SWGEvictee]

Then what fix is there?

 

On a PvE server remove the ability to heal an npc someone else is fighting unless that person has voluntarily flagged for PvP before starting the fight and the healer is flagged as well before the fight was started.

[LanceCorporalDan]

On a PvE server remove the ability to heal an npc someone else is fighting unless that person has voluntarily flagged for PvP before starting the fight and the healer is flagged as well before the fight was started.

 

Right then, sounds nice to me.

 

But what about on pvp servers where a player is defending their bases and healing the champion mobs and such?

 

Just curious.

[Emencie]

When a NPC is tagged, make it unhealable/unbuffable for the ones that didn't tag it. Other MMORPGs does it. That doesn't neccessarily mean it's easy to implement in TOR depending on engine and coding and whatnot, but it's the best solution.

Agreed, this would be the best solution but it would take a lot to implement.

 

The problem with PvE servers is it is so contrary to how these faction based engines are set up, since they are setup with PvP and faction conflict in mind. The best thing to do to stop the griefing is to not allow the healing. However that would be a pain to do with NPCs that are faction specific but still need to be interacted with, with the opposite faction. Because the way Faction keys are likely working in the game is I(mperial), R(epublic), N(eutral), H(ostile).

 

R Mobs are hostile to Imperial players and friendly to Republic players, So they can be healed buffed and whatever else. A knee jerk and easy fix would be to deny healing on R Mobs to republic players but that would effect all R NPCs including escort quest and protection quest allies. Another Knee jerk and easy fix would be to make all I and R mobs into N. This could work but you have the problem of accidentally attacking same faction NPCs and they try to kill you even while in your faction cities.

 

So as I see it none of the easy fixes can really be implemented without causing a lot of other problems, and honestly who knows when we can get a correct fix? I hate it when people use this as a suggestion but honestly the best thing you may be able to do is suck it up and leave. Bullies cant bully someone who isn't there after all.

[Heezdedjim]

This is a simple fix.

 

(1) Set a flag on all NPCs that makes them immune to player heals.

 

(2) Unset that flag on Companions and any NPCs that need to be healed in the context of specific encounters.

 

Problem solved.

[SWGEvictee]

Right then, sounds nice to me.

 

But what about on pvp servers where a player is defending their bases and healing the champion mobs and such?

 

Just curious.

 

 

while I'm not active on a PvP server from what I have seen posted here the situation will self rectify on a PvP server.

[Emencie]

This is a simple fix.

 

(1) Set a flag on all NPCs that makes them immune to player heals.

 

(2) Unset that flag on Companions and any NPCs that need to be healed in the context of specific encounters.

 

Problem solved.

Simple to write in a forum not so simple in practice.

 

Note that the only Friendly NPCs you cannot heal in the game currently are also untargetable completely. So they aren't the type we are talking about in this thread so far. You are talking about writing a new NPC tag which may be a lot more difficult than you think. Swapping NPC tags is easy because they are already written and hard coded into the game engine. creating an entirely new one can be daunting.

[RandomXChance]

This is a role playing game. If you choose to be immersed into it you support your faction be it npc and player.

 

Also ... I healed mobs with my Operative just in case someone heads to the forums to whine like this person did

 

This and so many posts like it just breeze by a very basic fact. There are two types of servers in this game.

 

RP/PVP servers where this type of action is not only OK, but entirely appropriate. People have rolled toons on these severs so that they can truly play out the battle between the factions and if someone is doing this you are free to attack them in response. You are attacking an NPC mob and the other player has allied themselves with the NPC mob.

 

PVE servers where outside of Warzones and a couple of open world areas you are only playing against the "environment". When you heal a friendly mob you are invulnerable to retaliation and if there are no other instances to go to you can do nothing. I have had a player follow me around on Ilum when I tried to go to a different area and continue to do this. Trying to equate this to activities like "needing" and warzones is absurd. You can Vote Kick an excessive needer and you can kill someone in a warzone or open world PvP area.

 

I am certainly not here to cry about an action that has only happened to me a couple of times and I know how to stop it. If this gets your jollies off, well ok. Just give it up on the absurd "I am role playing" excuse. The mechanics of this activity are not meant for players to be doing this and you are taking advantage of it. Since it is not game breaking I am sure it is not even on the dev's list of things to address. This does not mean you being invulnerable to retaliation is an inteneded mechanic.

Edited March 28, 2013 by RandomXChance

[BaronV]

I am certainly not here to cry about an action that has only happened to me a couple of times and I know how to stop it. If this gets your jollies off, well ok. Just give it up on the absurd "I am role playing" excuse. The mechanics of this activity are not meant for players to be doing this and you are taking advantage of it. Since it is not game breaking I am sure it is not even on the dev's list of things to address. This does not mean you being invulnerable to retaliation is an inteneded mechanic.

 

Agreed. "Roleplaying" does NOT give you the right to interfere and impose your play upon other people