Kitru's New Class Idea

[Shadowdmv]

As I see it, economic balance concerns are going to occur no matter how you design an additional class (unless you explicitly add 4 new classes at once, one for each mainstat). Crafted Cunning gear is way harder to find and generally goes for worse prices because Smugg/Agent isn't played as much as Knight/Warrior. It could just as easily have gone the entire other way around (my general suspicion is that Smugg/Agent saw a steep drop off in play shortly after release when Scoundrel/Operative DPS was nerfed into oblivion; I recall at release that Sentinels weren't receiving as much play as predicted since their DPS was viewed as inferior so, at release, you'd have seen Cunning gear going for more than Strength). As I see it, the economy will reach equilibrium regardless of how you finagle with it, and the tweaks to REing coming in 2.0 (both making it harder and restricting access to top tier schematics) are going to go to some length to prevent the massive disparity between Cunning craftables and pretty much everything else.

 

Like I said, I'm not one for choosing a main stat based upon a belief in how the economy will react to it. The economy is a completely separate beast, as I see it, so I'd much rather design the class as a class and then see how the economy reacts to it (or, even better, fix the fundamental aspects of the economy that end up getting broken, like returning to the days when Ops dropped actual schematics in addition to providing the option to RE a specific piece of gear which would normalize the distribution of crafted items by a fair bit).

 

This issue could also be addressed by placing a mainstat in a gear type that is is not currently used in( ie Strength in a light armor)

[Shadowdmv]

I was thinking exactly the same.

 

If Swtor was different there'd be place for a third archetype as well, the controller/debuffer, but the endgame doesn't support that kind of mechanics.

 

Personally I tried to think about how I could come up with a pet class. Sith alchemist would work really well, the hard part would be getting 2 advanced classes out of it (though there are ways...). Or possibly you could add it as a third advanced class to one of the sith base classes.

 

The problem is that the jedi equivalent wouldn't make much sense and the only thing I could think about was a droid handler/mechanic, or perhaps a beast handler like those that work for the hutts... in any case it would be hard to make them work as mirrors (at least from the stats, and somewhat also the mechanics standpoint)

 

I don't have Kitru's patience for writing this kind of thing, but I had an idea for a pet based class, I Mechanical user. For the advanced classes I was thinking a force based one i dubbed a Mechnomancer( for lack of a better name at the moment) based on the Mechanical force sensitives mention in several of the star wars books; as well as more gadgety one (feel free to name). Both would have the ability to deploy and direct various machines, whose purposes would depend on the role of the character.

 

I anyone likes this idea, feel free to run with it

[Shadowdmv]

K now that i have read everything......

Wow, this is amazing, details, application, story. all aspects are very well developed. This is exactly the kind of thing SWTOR needs to bring new attention to it. I'll be honest the expansion didn't really noticeably add anything to the lower levels, and that's what your new players see, and i personally barely care about the Cather race, as it doesn't affect game play, and if you where a helmet, it's not even a cosmetic factor.

 

Final opinion, Bioware stand up and take notice. Making use of ideas like this is what will bring in people( and not using them will let your existing clientele move on to bigger and better things)

Edited May 2, 2013 by Shadowdmv
typo

[Anysao]

I haven't got to reading the storylines yet, but I certainly will! I do like how they look, but I need to ask... What would these two cultures, while famous in their own right, have to do with the Great War? As much as I'd love to be a sun guard, taking down Darth Malgus, or Karagga the Unyielding wouldn't quite feel as heroic.

 

No offense intended, of course! I like these ideas!

[paowee]

Haven't read through the story line, skimmed through the first post, read the abilities / skills / talents.

 

I must say great work on this and admire the effort you put into your class idea. +1 Cookie!

[XisscVekno]

I applaud you on the effort you put into this, but at this stage in the game we need more ranged options than melee. We have only 3 ranged DPS options and 5 melee, adding another will only bloat an already bloated spot for group make up.

 

I love monk style play styles in other games so I would play this, but still would like to see another ranged class before adding another melee. Also I skimmed across the original posts was there a set up for possible melee healer? Kinda like the Disciple in Vanguard. Loved that class as a healer was really fun.

Edited May 3, 2013 by XisscVekno

[ekimmak]

Wow. You have put a LOT of effort into this.

 

Although I'm normally the one who thinks that any new classes are a waste of time, It's really more because I don't expect the devs to have the resources to put into it, and in this case? I wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised.

 

edit: I also like how you've got a companion that loves courting gifts, even though you can't actually court him, not to mention memorabilia lovers. Those gifts are way too easy to stock up on, given how most companions prefer weapons and cultural artifacts.

Edited May 6, 2013 by ekimmak

[Kitru]

What would these two cultures, while famous in their own right, have to do with the Great War? As much as I'd love to be a sun guard, taking down Darth Malgus, or Karagga the Unyielding wouldn't quite feel as heroic.

 

The Echani, and by extension the Thyrsians, are the greatest generals in the galaxy, canonically. Since, at various stages of the game's timeframe, there's either a war brewing, a war taking place, or a war simmering, it would make sense that each side would want to court the respective planetary cultures associated with outstanding generals supposedly able to predict their opponents' military movements. In the KotOR games, an Echani general (Yusanis) is specifically mentioned as leading Republic forces against the Mandalorians alongside Revan and even specifically engaging him in a duel (though he lost, the fact that he could actually stand a chance against a Jedi without any augmentation speaks volumes about his combat capabilities).

 

Individually, an Echani or Thyrsian would likely have the same reasons as the other classes: they're threats to your faction and, as a hero to your faction, you're asked to take save it once again by taking part in the referenced actions.

[SmoleyMolehole]

This is a great idea, almost seems more monk-like in description. I would love to play as one of them.Course, you'd have to convince Bioware to add them in, and to make all the necessary updates to the game to fit them. Plus, there'd be the races to consider.

[AthielRosewood]

You've completely lost the entire theme of the game, sith empire vs. republic. This class requires it's own separate lore that, according to you, largely has to be written into the star wars universe and has nothing to do with the current conflict or the game. How is this going to draw more people into the game by including a conflict no one's heard of or ever cared about? It makes little enough sense for the scrapper scoundrels to be sucker punching enemies like Gharj or Titan 6 in the leg and actually doing damage, do we need another class wailing away with their fists?

 

Also, recheck the names of some of your "new" abilities (i.e. extricate is the sorc friendly pull) and you made a clone of the trooper/bounty hunter defensive cooldown.

 

It is a neat idea to have a class with 2 energy pools. But please (I think it was the water build?), no more classes that spam the same ability over and over again. They've already tried to move Grav-round/tracer missile away from that and it's boring, unoriginal, and downright intellectually lazy.

 

Who puts spoiler tags in for their own ideas? lol

A gammorrean companion? Who wants to listen to that gibberish and oinking? IT"S A TRAP!

A tank companion with an assault cannon? They'd have to make a ton of new statted cannons (shield, defense, absorption) just for a companion. Waste of time and resources. And screw the commando who gets one of those as a drop...

 

You've put a lot of thought into this, but frankly it does not fit into this game. As someone said previously, there are enough melee classes as it is. I'd rather see a shared droid class. The visual customization options are nearly endless (anywhere from hk to scorpio to M1-4X) and a droid could fit easily onto either side. I bet a lot more people would rather play as a droid than an echani.

[Kitru]

You've completely lost the entire theme of the game, sith empire vs. republic. This class requires it's own separate lore that, according to you, largely has to be written into the star wars universe and has nothing to do with the current conflict or the game.

 

Pretty much all of the story involved in the writing of the game involves creating new lore around existing organizations. Some of the stuff, like the Gree, had only the vaguest mentions in any form of Star Wars lore before TOR stepped in. *Now*, we deal with the Gree all the time, thanks to the event and Asation.

 

The Echani have already been utilized by Bioware when they were writing the story for the first KoTOR. It got further developed in KotOR 2 (which, even if it wasn't developed by BW, is still within the continuity). So it's not as if the Echani would be coming out of nowhere.

 

Concerning your "Empire v. Republic" comment, the Echani were, at one point, represented in the Republic. The selfsame famous general that lead troops for and died in a duel with Revan in the Mandalorian Wars (Yusanis, if you're curious, wherein the only specific lore about him comes from the KotOR games) was a Republic Senator when he left the military (and, in fact, was a sitting senator when he challenged Darth Revan to said duel). The Thyrsians are explicitly written as an Echani offshoot that operates as a Sith cult, which means they side with the Empire. The only "rewriting" I'm doing to them is comparing the timeline and making it so that the schism occurs comparatively recently so as to allow for there only to be minute differences between the cultures at the moment (since, later on, they start wearing heavy armor and using weapons whereas the Echani have always focused on light armor and unarmed/lightly armed combat). The cultures are just as much part of the respective sides *already* as the Mandalorians (in fact, the Thyrsians would be *more* loyal to the Empire than the Mandalorians since the Mandos are only working with the Empire as mercenaries).

 

How is this going to draw more people into the game by including a conflict no one's heard of or ever cared about?

 

First off, the conflict involved, as stated before, would be the exact same conflict as before: Republic v. Empire. Adding the classes I've suggested wouldn't predicate some massive movement from the existing storyline to some obscure conflict involving a remarkably often mentioned sideline culture/combat style (the unarmed combat style of the Imperial Guard and Imperial Intelligence were both explicitly derived from Echani; the Echani are mentioned numerous times in OR in a secondary context). It's simply bringing that culture into the existing conflict. The stories for the Echani and Thyrsians don't even involve the other side. The Echani deal with the Echani and the Thyrsians deal with the Thyrsians. The only mention of any kind is historical and possibly in a battleground. The only thing I'm adding is additional lore about the cultures. The players themselves wouldn't be taking part in the conflict (since, you know, it took place a few decades back) unless they explicitly wanted to roleplay themselves that way.

 

As to no one hearing or caring about the Echani, I take a bit of umbrage at that comment. The Echani are mentioned numerous times in the previous KotOR games so it's not like they aren't mentioned anywhere except for a few obscure books. There's even a character in KotOR 2 that is actually a trained Echani fighter. Echani isn't just some incredibly obscure culture created largely out of whole cloth. The only stuff I'm creating is filling in the holes concerning stuff that isn't mentioned (like the actual foundation of the Echani fighting style, when the Thyrsian Rebellion took place, ranks within the culture, etc.).

 

As to the desire to play, personally, I've always found them one of the more interesting cultures that the universe has spawned thanks to their "combat as communication" concept as well as the whole "we can predict fights on an almost prescient level". The only other major unarmed combat style in TOR was Teras Kasi which, had it not been for Star Wars Galaxies creating a class around it, would've only been known to a few die hard fans (most of which would've had to have played the old d6 based PnP game to know about it). Plenty of people would want to play as someone that can fight a Jedi to a standstill without ever using the Force, especially if it's almost an entire *culture* of people that can do it. One should never look down on novelty as a source of interest. Even if people haven't heard of it, they'll be made curious by hearing about it.

 

It makes little enough sense for the scrapper scoundrels to be sucker punching enemies like Gharj or Titan 6 in the leg and actually doing damage, do we need another class wailing away with their fists?[]

 

Also, recheck the names of some of your "new" abilities (i.e. extricate is the sorc friendly pull) and you made a clone of the trooper/bounty hunter defensive cooldown.

 

As I've stated a few times before, nothing that I've posted here is written in stone, not to mention that not everything about the class has to be explicitly new. There are only so many ways that you can put together a survivability CD and most of them are pretty well explored, especially when the cooldown times and durations of said abilities are largely set in stone (2-2.5m CD, 10-12 sec duration). There isn't much wiggle room and, if you couldn't tell, the other CDs are different from everything else in game.

 

As to the name, I'm neither bound to it nor is it explicitly restricted. There are only so many words in the English language that mean "escape" or some variation on the theme and it's not as if there aren't any duplicate names for different abilities either (Diversion is both a GS/Sniper acc debuff as well as the Trooper threat drop). To me, Extricate sounds like the perfect ability to explain a martial artist getting out of a stun, immob, or other effect.

 

It is a neat idea to have a class with 2 energy pools. But please (I think it was the water build?), no more classes that spam the same ability over and over again. They've already tried to move Grav-round/tracer missile away from that and it's boring, unoriginal, and downright intellectually lazy.

 

The only spec that does any degree of "spamming" is the shared tree Spirit, which doesn't simply spam arbitrarily. It drops a series of True Strikes after setting up for it. The actual design for it is borrowed from WoW with the Arcane mage which is actually often considered to be one of the more fun specs to play as. Yes, you chain cast one ability, but it's not like you're spamming Grav Round within the same context as Commando Grav Round (I actually have to laugh at the comparison because it shows that you've pretty much not read *anything* involving the actual specs).

 

Who puts spoiler tags in for their own ideas?

 

For massive posts like this that are separated into discreet chunks, it's actually pretty common. It prevents everything from becoming one giant wall of text. I included the spoiler tags not because they're spoilers, but because they're the most effective way to make the class idea easy to read and navigate. As my signature says, I like walls of text, but I also know that most people don't, especially when it's a wall as large as this one.

 

A gammorrean companion? Who wants to listen to that gibberish and oinking?

 

I'm just going to ignore this. You might not find the idea of a Gamorrean companion interesting, but I've wondered why there aren't any, considering how comparatively common they are in universe. There are some of the more obscure races, like the Dashade and the Houk, represented amongst the companions, as well as a Trandoshan and a Wookiee, but no Gamorrean. If you don't like the grunting and oinking, I have to wonder how you can enjoy the speaking of many of the other races out there (Trandoshans speak with a very similar intonation and I don't hear you complaining about them).

 

A tank companion with an assault cannon? They'd have to make a ton of new statted cannons (shield, defense, absorption) just for a companion. Waste of time and resources. And screw the commando who gets one of those as a drop...

 

Those already exist (you'll find many people complaining about Cunning gear with tank stats on it, especially on Sniper Rifles or Vibroknives with Aim), as do a number of other weapons that exist purely for companions (Techblades). Just because it's not used by a player doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place when used for a companion, especially when the only nonstandard requirement for the implementation is the weapon category (I'm not recommending a Cunning based tank, which would actually require creating a massive amount of new Cunning gear with tank stats to accommodate it, especially at the endgame; the Assault Cannon tank still uses Aim so in *every other way* he'd be just like a VG/PT tank). Besides, to get a twinked out an Assault Cannon, the devs wouldn't need to add one with tank stats. The modification systems would allow you to just just find a moddable one Assault Cannon and put some tank mods in it. You could even yank all of the mods out of a straight up tank blaster pistol or blaster rifle. It's not really all that difficult.

 

I'd rather see a shared droid class.

 

The devs have explicitly stated they're not going to add a droid class for the same reason that they're not going to add Wookiees as a playable race: it wouldn't work with the existing systems and options. First off, a droid class would require it's own set of races which are unique to that one class explicitly, or, as is more likely, a single race all to itself. Furthermore, unless those droid "races" are almost physically identical with the exception of minute variations in secondary characteristics (i.e. tendrils on face for Sith, mask for Miraluka, skin color/facial coloration for every other race), there would need to be multiple models for each piece of gear (there's a reason none of the companion droids show their gear: their bodies are too different from each other that each different body type would require different models). Furthermore, droids use completely different equipment, which means that, for every single instance in the entire game (as well as the normal loot tables for world drops), droid gear would need to be added.

 

Adding a droid class is an interesting concept (one that I've actually played around with several times), but it's just not going to happen because it's a *massive* amount of work to implement properly and would actually cut down on the real customization options available to players. One of the reasons I chose the Echani was because it's actually a concept that should be relatively easy to implement, as far as entirely new classes go, while still having sufficient difference from the existing classes to actually deserve being a separate class (it wouldn't be too hard to just create additional arbitrary Jedi/Sith class ideas, but, at that point, you're still just talking about more lightsaber jockeys): the armor would be shared by existing classes (meaning that the only new armor models you to make are the endgame tier pieces) so the only new models you would really need to make are weapons. Fist weapons already exist as an artefactual category within the game files, which suggests that there are probably a few to work with already, not that it wouldn't be too difficult to create some fancy/weird brass knuckles, spiked gloves, or blades held in the fist. The Double Bladed Vibroblades would be simple to make as well since most of them could be created by duplicating the patterns of existing Vibroblades.

[AthielRosewood]

Compared to the other 4 existing classes, the echani and their silly sub-sect are coming out of nowhere. Yes, they were mentioned in the kotor games and there were actually 2 companions trained in echani fighting techniques in kotor 2 (if I were to list them, this is where a spoiler tag would be used). I'm glad you find them interesting, but how many people have delved as deep as you into the expanded universe? You bring up the gree, but are they a playable species? Do we have a gree-based class? No. They are merely a backdrop for a continuation of the dread masters story and a fun, periodic event (and a series of early quests on Coruscant).

 

Look at the other classes, they are all based off of highly recognizable and often treasured characters from the movies such as Han Solo, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Obi Wan, Emperor Palpatine, Boba Fett, etc. You're telling me that Yusanis, a general that was never even seen and exists only in a background story in a video game belongs in that list?

Both of your echani trained companions in Kotor II, The Last Handmaiden, and Atton Rand, were both force sensitive whether you trained them to become jedi or not. Are they effective because of the Echani training or is it the force that gives them that extra boost they need to survive?

Mandalorians play a large role in the game because they are actually part of the story and the timeline. You are thrusting the Echani into it because of a less-than-minor appearance in Kotor.

 

Let's get down to what really matters here, what is the marketability of the Echani to both existing players and to draw more people into the game? Theoretical Announcement: Rise of the Echani or Attack of the Monk Copycats or Yet Another Melee Class or Bruce Lee isn't Dead He's Just In Another Galaxy featuring the celebrated warriors, the Echani, and the bloodthirsty Thrysians! 99% of people wouldn't even know it was Star Wars until they saw (or heard) Star Wars in the press release/article/commercial. And then how many of them get excited about it? You, so there's one...but everyone else goes back to what they were doing and don't think about it again. Why? Because Echani has no meaning even to most Star Wars fans. Frankly, I'd rather be the Sarlacc Enforcer http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sarlacc_Enforcer

 

 

Now, what is highly recognizable and interesting to the broadest spectrum of people (you know, the ones who don't spend their lives digging through the expanded Star Wars universe)? So marketable, in fact, that a major US Corporation licensed the name for their own products? You guessed it. Droid. Droids are ubiquitous in Star Wars and come in all shapes and sizes. The word droid evokes Star Wars in a way Echani never will. So a long time ago the devs said they're won't be playabe droids for the same reasons there will be no wookies. I'm not saying let's have droids as a playable race, I'm saying make droids their own standalone class. So, new team and things can change. But let's explore those reasons.

 

1. The playable character must be able to speak Basic. Check.

 

2. Weird Romances: The droid would have it's own story, so don't write them romances and disable the ones in world story arcs for that class. Instead, perhaps explore the line of person vs. machine, free will vs. programming the morality of the the memory wipe. Who made me and why? Is the droid just a servant, or can it exert it's own influence? The Droid would at least have something interesting to say in Directive 7.

 

3. Fitting armor to their body types: What happens visually with your droid companions when you put new armor on them? Nothing. This is where people can get really creative with their droid in character creation and the new appearance kiosk in 2.1. Each droid can be drastically different, because they don't have to be able to fit armor models on each one. If Bioware supplies the tools, there can be an endless amount of customization available. And since there are so many droids already in the game, the variation already exists.

 

4. Applicability of the species to all existing classes (the no wookie jedi problem): Simple, droids can only be the droid class. I know that droids can theoretically (or are in the extended universe or elsewhere in the game) be bounty hunters, troopers, or smugglers, but this way those classes don't have to be changed for the droid in such an expansion.

 

Your excuses for your lack of originality are pathetic. There's only so many words in the English language...so skills have to have the same name as completely different skills that existing classes already have. Synonyms for extricate: liberate, withdraw, extract, disencumber, disentangle, disengage, separate. That took 5 seconds. Just because Bioware had an oversight or was lazy doesn't give you the right to be.

 

You bring up techblades...do any playable characters use them? No. Companion only items. So it does not relate to tanking assault cannons. But since you brought it up, are there orange moddable tech blades? Yes. Are there orange moddable assault cannons with tanking stats? No. Only non-moddable drops and crafts if the random number generator doesn't like you and you end up with the rampart or one of the other purple versions that include shield. So, yes, they would have to create new cannons just for that silly companion to keep him on par with all the others.

 

Why are there no Gammorrean companions? Because they are incredibly unintelligent brutes that squeal constantly. I don't know what you're into, but that is not appealing. There is nothing interesting about a really dumb, giant pig. There is also nothing similar about the deep trandoshan voice and the high pitched squealing of the gammorreans. And this little piggy ran all the way home...

 

You still never addressed the addition of yet another melee class or the ridiculousness of beating on enemies like Titan 6 on the foot with your fists.

 

I'm sorry but this idea is not exciting and just doesn't fit. I'd have no problem with an echani event or the introduction of an Echani NPC, but I'm not ok with throwing them up on the bigstage with the Jedi and Sith because they just don't belong. What really means Star Wars the way Jedi does...Droid. They are ready for the bigstage because they have been on it since Day 1. Jedi, Sith, Droid, Echani, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter. When one thinks Star Wars, one of these is not like the others. One of these does not belong.

[Kitru]

Mandalorians play a large role in the game because they are actually part of the story and the timeline. You are thrusting the Echani into it because of a less-than-minor appearance in Kotor.

 

The Echani play just as much of a role as the Mandalorians do within the timeline. The only reason that the Mandalorians are more well known is because they're *villains* (that and they're more than a little bit of a ascended fandom; if you only watched the movies, you'd have no clue who the Mandalorians were/are and would only recognize them from the fact that they share a helmet with Boba Fett). The Echani were allies of the Republic so you're not really going to be fighting them, which means that, unless you actually visit an Echani enclave, you're don't really have a reason to see them. In fact, there are actually more Echani than just Yusanis mentioned in the TOR games. There are actually a few NPCs that you talk to both in KotOR and KotOR 2 that are actually Echani (and mentioned as such).

 

Let's get down to what really matters here, what is the marketability of the Echani to both existing players and to draw more people into the game?

 

The marketability lies in the fact that you're getting new classes. *Playstyle* and novelty are the hook (not to mention that unarmed combat is actually something that most people would think is pretty interesting) and, if you actually read the idea rather than glossing over it and making strawman arguments based upon the barest grasp of the concept, you'd also realize that I'm not just recommending that this mirror class be added in a vacuum. My idea involves adding 2 separate classes as a purchasable additional pack. It wouldn't involve adding new story on top of the game outside of the class stories (which all largely exist in a vacuum).

 

Once again, I'm not screaming "OMG Echani expansion!". I'm saying "additional classes".

 

Now, what is highly recognizable and interesting to the broadest spectrum of people (you know, the ones who don't spend their lives digging through the expanded Star Wars universe)?

 

I realize you want to use this as your own personal soap box to posit your ideas for a Droid class, but that's not really what I'm interested in discussing. I'm interested in discussing *this* idea. So, while I respect your idea for a Droid class, however unlikely it is to actually get made (even using your own logic, is there *any* droid main character? no, they're all support characters), your soapboxing isn't really appropriate for this thread.

 

So a long time ago the devs said they're won't be playabe droids for the same reasons there will be no wookies. I'm not saying let's have droids as a playable race, I'm saying make droids their own standalone class.

 

The problem is *explicitly* that droids would have to be a standalone class. You're asking explicitly for a class/race combination that is *entirely* separate from *everything* else. That, right there, means that it's a lot less likely to happen: to get the same level of customization currently available to *everything else*, you need to put in a *crapton* more work. More work = less likely to happen, which apparently you have a hard time grasping.

 

You bring up techblades...do any playable characters use them? No. Companion only items. So it does not relate to tanking assault cannons. But since you brought it up, are there orange moddable tech blades? Yes. Are there orange moddable assault cannons with tanking stats? No.

 

You're making a straw man argument here. You're specifically making an unequal comparison by comparing Ttechblades *without* specific stats to Assault Cannons *with* specific stats. There are moddable versions of *both* and, in fact, there are a helluva lot more moddable Assault Cannons than moddable Techblades. Developmentally, it's not even all that much work to change the mod/enh on the quest rewards. You're making an issue out of nothing.

 

Why are there no Gammorrean companions? Because they are incredibly unintelligent brutes that squeal constantly.

 

That's opinion. It could also be pretty well applied to Wookiees or Trandoshans. Just because *you* don't like the idea doesn't mean it's unjustified. Hell, the character could just as easily be any of a number of different races. I chose Gamorrean because it's a common race that *hasn't* been used.

 

You still never addressed the addition of yet another melee class or the ridiculousness of beating on enemies like Titan 6 on the foot with your fists.

 

How is fighting a giant robot with small arms any less ridiculous or a human sized person taking not just a single full on hit from a weapon/target that big but taking *numerous* hits over the course of a 10 minute fight? Why does it take numerous strikes from a lightsaber or blaster to take out a human when, in reality, a single hit is all you'd ever need? Why do droids *bleed* (seriously, the bleeding status effect hurts *droids* who have no blood; they don't even have hydraulic or pnuematic fluid lines that you could use in a similar context, just look at the movies when a droid gets cut/shot/etc; they're just wires and servos)?

 

The games operates as a game. It's no more absurd for a Smuggler to deal more damage with a punch (seriously, the most damaging attack a Smuggler gets is an unarmed strike; pistol whipping a target deals more damage than simply shooting them with it) than it would be to have an actual trained unarmed combatant dealing similar amounts of damage with punches and kicks (especially when you realize that I'm not just saying they're punching with bare fists; they're using field effect generators and gauntlets/knuckles/gloves).

Edited May 9, 2013 by Kitru

[Anysao]

Everyone likes a good enemy. For some reason that forum troll's comments and your rebuttal made me support this. Maybe it was the voss commando and gamorrean companions, (oh, and heads up: it's an idea for the Devs to add a Voss race. Hope this isn't story-breaking) but I'm sold. I haven't read the class stories, though. Probably never will to avoid a spoiler (in the hopeful thoughts they'll add this in the future ). Sooo... /signinfancyhandwriting

[CommanderKeeva]

You put a lot of thought and effort into this, far more in fact that anyone else I've seen. This is by far the most well-thought out and well-organized class idea that is both interesting and unique and I really enjoyed reading and imagining the story. However, me being a realistic person, I don't believe this idea is viable in the foreseeable future for the reasons some people already mentioned. I can imagine this class being added at some point down the road, but I think it would be a poor choice for the first additional class. Let me tell you (reiterate actually) why.

 

1. The overall melee-ranged ratio is not balanced. There are 3 melee Force-based and 2 melee Tech-based Advanced Classes. There's only one Force-based ranged and Tech-based ranged Advanced Classes. Adding two more melee ACs would shift the "balance" to 7 melee vs 3 ranged. That is way too much melee. With the double resource system, are they considered Force or Tech users?

 

2. There are already too many DPS specs in the game compared to tank and healer specs. Out of 24 specs, we have 3 tank, 3 heal and 18 DPS options (doubly counting shared trees, since they're not exactly the same). Adding 5 more DPS and 1 more tank spec, would give us 4 tank, 3 heal and 23 DPS options. Again, too many DPS specs.

 

I'd much rather see Classes like Inquisitors, Consulars, Troopers and Bounty Hunters. One AC can spec Tank/DPS, the other can spec Heal/DPS. This makes for the most versatile classes.

 

3. These classes don't feel like iconic Star Wars classes. In fact, to me, they don't feel like Star Wars-y at all. I've been a SW fan in my entire life, read every book there is but I have to admit, I have never in my life heard about any Thyrsians. The Echani are slightly more well-known among SW fans but I doubt that casual fans (the majority of the players) have heard about them, either.

 

TL; DR version: I reckon its a sound idea but it's not feasible to implement atm. We need more ranged and more healers/tank options before we add any more melee DPS. Lorewise it's too obscure and people won't recognize it as Star Wars. It might be a good addition at some point, but for now it belongs to the Wall of Crazy.

 

EDIT: The companion ideas are great, I'd love to have a Voss, Nekghoul or Gamorrean companion. (Let's face it....is Skadge more intelligent than the average Gamorrean?) They could be incorporated into future classes' companions.

 

EDIT 2: For the love of God, don't make a companion with a tanking Assault Cannon. Don't screw with Assault Cannons, they already have ****** mods sometimes. Just give him a standard tanking blaster rifle.

Edited May 14, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[Kitru]

1. The overall melee-ranged ratio is not balanced. There are 3 melee Force-based and 2 melee Tech-based Advanced Classes. There's only one Force-based ranged and Tech-based ranged Advanced Classes. Adding two more melee ACs would shift the "balance" to 7 melee vs 3 ranged.

 

Once again, I feel compelled to reiterate that the idea I have for this would not add this class in a vacuum. I stated in the first post that, if I had my way, it would be part of a pseudo-expansion/class pack that provides 2 new classes (i.e 4 ACs) for each faction. Yes, the 2 ACs I'm talking about here are both melee, but that doesn't meant that the *other* 2 ACs I'm working on are *not* ranged. You're comparing this to a potential future state when I've said *explicitly* that I wouldn't want this to be implemented in a vacuum. I *explicitly* say it in the very first post. Hell, it's in the very first *paragraph* that actually references the class design. As much as you feel the need to reiterate this point to me, I feel an even stronger compulsion to tell you that *I already thought about this*. It's not something that needs to be continually brought up because it's already something that I've factored in.

 

I also feel it should be said that there aren't that many remaining fundamental archetypes left, specifically those in-universe examples that also happen to have distinct mechanical constructs to build a class around so that they're not just reskinned versions of existing classes (like the oft desired "Noble/Officer" which would really just be a reskinned Scoundrel/Agent or "Pirate" which would be either a reskinned Scoundrel or tech-variant Guardian). The only 2 that are really left, unless you just want to retread ground that's already been covered by other ACs and remove the uniqueness and flair of *those* ACs in an effort to arbitrarily balance melee against ranged, are the unarmed combatant (re: monk) and the naturalist magician (re: druid/shaman). If someone can come up with a way for a monk class to be turned into a ranged class while still preserving the fundamental concept of a monk (i.e. a guy with a bow isn't a monk; it's an archer), I'd be all for it, but, as it stands, I couldn't come up with one that doesn't strip the entire concept of it's actual flair purely on the basis that there should be more ranged.

 

With the double resource system, are they considered Force or Tech users?

 

I explicitly stated that they're Tech based. Intuition refers to the whole "Echani can predict what will happen in combat based off of a lifetime of fighting". It has nothing to do with the Force.

 

2. There are already too many DPS specs in the game compared to tank and healer specs. Out of 24 specs, we have 3 tank, 3 heal and 18 DPS options (doubly counting shared trees, since they're not exactly the same). Adding 5 more DPS and 1 more tank spec, would give us 4 tank, 3 heal and 23 DPS options. Again, too many DPS specs.

 

There will *always* be way more DPS specs than tank or healer specs. Unless the developers start creating classes that have multiple tank or healer specs (something I *highly* doubt they will ever do) *and* stop making pure DPS classes (another thing I doubt they will ever do), whenever a new tank is added, twice as many DPS specs are added on top of it. If you actually want to find an *apt* comparison, look at what the ACs are capable of, rather than the number of specs available for those roles. There are 3 tank capable AC, 8 DPS capable ACs, and 3 healer capable ACs. If you actually factor in the stuff I'm planning on releasing soon, I'm turning that into 4 tank capable ACs, 12 DPS, and 4 heal capable ACs, which preserves the existing ratio *perfectly* (the new ACs are going to be another pure DPS and another heal capable).

 

I'd much rather see Classes like Inquisitors, Consulars, Troopers and Bounty Hunters. One AC can spec Tank/DPS, the other can spec Heal/DPS. This makes for the most versatile classes.

 

It also severely limits you on the concepts you can use. It's hard to explain how someone that punches the crap out of people is also capable of using similar mechanisms to heal people, unless you push towards something that pushes the realms of believability to their breaking point (like Acupuncture/Acupressure) unless you're outright willing to just *copy* what other classes do (because, as we all know, Kolto can turn *anyone* into a healer, even if the rest of the class focuses on using *completely different* concepts, like martial arts).

 

3. These classes don't feel like iconic Star Wars classes. In fact, to me, they don't feel like Star Wars-y at all. I've been a SW fan in my entire life, read every book there is but I have to admit, I have never in my life heard about any Thyrsians. The Echani are slightly more well-known among SW fans but I doubt that casual fans (the majority of the players) have heard about them, either.

 

"Iconic" is a hard term to define and flimsy at best. The Sentinel, with its dual wielding sabers, isn't really an "iconic" class, considering that almost every Jedi in every non-roleplaying source wields a single saber. The Jedi Shadow, a stealth based Jedi wielding a double bladed lightsaber that spends more time hurling rocks than actually swinging with the saber itself isn't really iconic either (the only example of a double bladed wielder that you'll find without going deep into the lore is Darth Maul who barely used his Force powers). The only thing either of those have iconic about them is "Jedi".

 

How *does* a class become iconic outside of someone deciding to actually *do* something with the idea. The Echani play a major part in the story of the Old Republic, who, together with the Mandalorians, had a larger impact than *any* other non-Force wielding society. Just because there aren't blatant Echani practitioners in the later eras of SW doesn't mean that it's not an appropriate area to explore in this era. Hell, I'm pretty sure that half the reason BW chose to operate in the Old Republic area with both KotOR and TOR was because there *wasn't* much written about it so that it actually *allowed* them to create things out of whole cloth to explore the SW universe without being confined by existing lore. The excuse that "someone hasn't done it yet" doesn't really apply when you're talking about a time frame when almost *no one* has done anything to explore it. It's a blank slate that the developers can use to explore whatever the hell they want.

 

It's important to remember that SWTOR is a *game* that exists as an extension of the Star Wars universe, not the Star Wars universe turned into a game. To add a new class, you have to come up with something that doesn't tread on the toes of the existing classes. The existing classes already cover almost all of the "iconic" archetypes (which is probably what they planned on). Because they've covered the "iconic" archetypes, they're now free to explore stuff that *isn't* exactly iconic but makes sense in both the universe and the game. You're attempting to apply limitations arbitrarily because you don't think that the developers should be allowed to grow the universe.

 

The universe is already plenty empty. Let them fill it.

 

TL; DR version: I reckon its a sound idea but it's not feasible to implement atm. We need more ranged and more healers/tank options before we add any more melee DPS. Lorewise it's too obscure and people won't recognize it as Star Wars. It might be a good addition at some point, but for now it belongs to the Wall of Crazy.

 

Feasibility is a question of implementation, not appropriateness. It would be better to say that you don't think that it's *appropriate* for implementation at the moment since I've done my damnedest to make sure that it's *feasible* for development. The question would then be what *would* be appropriate for implementation at the moment while still being developmentally feasible? There aren't really many options. Which is exactly *why* drawing upon comparatively obscure lore makes sense.

 

Lore is only obscure until someone decides to grab a hold of it and run with the idea. How do you think Boba Fett went from being a bounty hunter with a kewl helmet to the last member of an entire culture of warmongering ******es? The Mandalorians weren't iconic at one point until someone who was a massive Bobo Fett fan had an idea and then expanded on it until it took a life of its own. A *lot* of the EU was developed the same way. Pick a piece of obscure lore and turn it into something that *isn't obscure. If you limit yourself only to the stuff that has been readily explored already, you're going to stymy yourself and limit the amazing things you can do. As long as it's true to the *existing* lore and the feel of the universe as a whole (seriously, we have alien space knights with laser swords and magical powers; how is space kung-fu too extreme to include in the universe?), it shouldn't be off limits and, as I see it, should be actively fostered and commended when it's done well.

 

Also, wouldn't it be nice if TOR actually had something that was *unique* to it outside of all of the other SW lore out there? Something to actually grow the franchise beyond just rehashing the standard stuff? I realize it's a SW game, but the EU created the Yuuzhan Vong because it couldn't just be "Rebellion against the Empire" forever, and it became something that *defined* an entire era of the books. They created the Witches of Dathomir and proceeded to explore the living *hell* out of that with no attachment to preexisting lore and they've become a *massive* fan favorite. Generic Star Wars is something that people are attached to but becomes blase all too quickly (since the basic icons of generic SW haven't really changed in nearly 40 years). Every Star Wars game and era has Jedi and Sith, Scoundrels and Bounty Hunters and the game has already fulfilled those roles *incredibly* well. To me, it's time for TOR to create some stuff that's actually iconic in its own right, rather than being limited by what is *already* iconic.

[MandoMetal]

Walls of text crit you for for 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

 

 

 

Very interesting ideas though.

[cdogknight]

I really like the idea. I like how you destroy your detractors too. It's easy and necessary to shoot down someone else's idea when the best you can come up with is some half baked, weak sauce droid idea.

 

My question is in regards to actual financial viability. Right now the game supposedly has about 450,000-500,000 subs and the dev team has to push out a new raid every 3-4 months, new flashpoints, new pvp content, fix bugs, rebalance classes constantly, and they are supposedly developing a space project as well. I know you said that you would charge 10 bucks because it would be new digital expansion content, but do you really think that it will pay for all the voice actors, redesign of zones, and just sheer bulk of new content that will have to be added.

 

And even if it did... I don't think bioware would do it. EA wouldn't let them. To big a risk.

 

Hope I'm wrong and they implement your idea though, because it would be awesome

[Kitru]

My question is in regards to actual financial viability. Right now the game supposedly has about 450,000-500,000 subs and the dev team has to push out a new raid every 3-4 months, new flashpoints, new pvp content, fix bugs, rebalance classes constantly, and they are supposedly developing a space project as well. I know you said that you would charge 10 bucks because it would be new digital expansion content, but do you really think that it will pay for all the voice actors, redesign of zones, and just sheer bulk of new content that will have to be added.

 

Some of the development costs are comparatively nonexistent: redesigning zones to add the new class missions is pretty much nothing to worry about. The same is true for adding new class trainers (just look at what they did when they added the Cartel Market reputation vendors: they just moved the replaced individuals to a different section). The only major design work would be in creating the new animations (actually pretty standard fare for development: all new bosses and many new enemies have to have new animations) and the new planets, which would be the *biggest* developmental hurdle. Of course, they're comparative *small* planets, as all starting planets are, so I don't think it's insurmountable.

 

I would like to think that the work I've done here would also mitigate a lot of the costs for developing the story. The only major things required would be writing the specific lines and conversation paths, many of which can be reused or should flow comparatively organically. As to voice acting, it's a cost, but I'm not sure that it would be a major expense: the developers have stated that voice acting was a known cost and they voice acted *everything*. With this, there is much *less* to voice act and they could probably go with smaller name voice actors (or, if they really want to market the voice acting heavily, they could go with a big name, but I've been trying to minimize development costs rather than take major risks): a vast majority of the dialogue from side quests could be largely left alone since the only ones that would need revision would be those lines that specifically reference your class. Beyond those side quests, only the story quests and companion dialogues (and only those companions that speak Basic) would need to be voice acted from scratch. Since the stories are a comparatively small amount of voice acting in the whole scheme of things, I don't thinks as big of a deal as might be made of it.

 

Concerning the money, you can probably expect that, conservatively, half of the subscribers/premium accounts will buy this bonus pack (I prefer not to call it an expansion because "expansion" has connotations of adding stuff for *all* classes rather than simply adding new classes). At $10 a pop and with 450k sub/prem, 50% purchasing (RotHC managed a *lot* more than that) would equate to $2.25 miilion. The development costs of the bonus pack would be *way* less than that (I would predict it taking 6-9 months at the longest before going up for pre-sale at least), and the non-direct monetary benefits in the form of additional subscribers, subscriber management, market attention, and additional cartel purchases (the big one, as I see it, would be additional character slots since, right now, there are 16 character slots for the 16 available ACs) would add even more value to it. Unless the continuous development costs for TOR are *way* higher than I'm estimating, it would be an excellent expenditure of developmental effort even by conservative estimates.

[cdogknight]

Some of the development costs are comparatively nonexistent: redesigning zones to add the new class missions is pretty much nothing to worry about.

 

I'm not so optimistic. The devs would have to go in and redesign every zone to have a new class instance and new cut scenes for every new story arc. Your talking about a lot of time spent developing that.

 

The only major design work would be in creating the new animations (actually pretty standard fare for development: all new bosses and many new enemies have to have new animations) and the new planets, which would be the *biggest* developmental hurdle. Of course, they're comparative *small* planets, as all starting planets are, so I don't think it's insurmountable.

 

Developing new animations when you have a development team that is prepping for the launch of a new mmo is a lot different then having a game that you are trying to sustain. This bioware team probably has half the developers that they had at launch, so again it is a huge hurtle for them to develop a new class with all new animations.

 

Concerning the money, you can probably expect that, conservatively, half of the subscribers/premium accounts will buy this bonus pack (I prefer not to call it an expansion because "expansion" has connotations of adding stuff for *all* classes rather than simply adding new classes). At $10 a pop and with 450k sub/prem, 50% purchasing (RotHC managed a *lot* more than that) would equate to $2.25 miilion. The development costs of the bonus pack would be *way* less than that (I would predict it taking 6-9 months at the longest before going up for pre-sale at least), and the non-direct monetary benefits in the form of additional subscribers, subscriber management, market attention, and additional cartel purchases (the big one, as I see it, would be additional character slots since, right now, there are 16 character slots for the 16 available ACs) would add even more value to it. Unless the continuous development costs for TOR are *way* higher than I'm estimating, it would be an excellent expenditure of developmental effort even by conservative estimates.

 

The math you use here is touchy. You quote a potential figure of 2.25 million to make this happen. The problem is that I don't know if that adds up. How much money does bioware pay its employees? I'm guessing average salary is 80-100k per year. So if they have a development team that is 200 people which I think is a good estimate then the numbers get a little less simple then what you have laid out. Let's not forget the competition which is Wildstar and Teso coming out this year. You might not want to invest that much capital into an mmo that will be two years old by that point when the competition is that strong.

 

This all being said, I think your idea is brilliant and bioware should do it tomorrow because I would want to play that class, But the video games business is an industry and it all comes down to money.

[Kitru]

I'm not so optimistic. The devs would have to go in and redesign every zone to have a new class instance and new cut scenes for every new story arc. Your talking about a lot of time spent developing that.

 

One of the things I made sure to do was to include missions and whatnot in areas with lots of empty walls. As you can tell from how the developers add new staging areas for new operations where previously there was just open walls, it's actually not that difficult because most of the stuff they're doing is modular, especially for the class quests. Adding the entrances just involves cutting out the area and replacing it with the modular entrance they've already got.

 

Developing new animations when you have a development team that is prepping for the launch of a new mmo is a lot different then having a game that you are trying to sustain. This bioware team probably has half the developers that they had at launch, so again it is a huge hurtle for them to develop a new class with all new animations.

 

I recognize that but still think it's appropriate to bring up the fact that it's not like they no longer have any animators. The ones they've got (or the people that have doing the animations that don't focus *solely* on animations) are still there doing the work. City of Heroes (a game I played for a *long* period of time and was active on the forums for) had a single person doing all of the animation work for the entire game after release and during what was, quite possibly, the most prolific time of new powersets that the game had.

 

The work of new animations isn't something I think is a major hurdle, *especially* when you're dealing with a game that heavily limits the skeleton players have access to (the primary problem with a lot of the animation work for CoX stemmed from the fact that players could have *massive* differences in height/girth/shoulder/etc. which would cause many animations to go completely screwy or just look wrong). I think you're inflating the difficulty of it all.

 

The math you use here is touchy. You quote a potential figure of 2.25 million to make this happen. The problem is that I don't know if that adds up. How much money does bioware pay its employees? I'm guessing average salary is 80-100k per year. So if they have a development team that is 200 people which I think is a good estimate then the numbers get a little less simple then what you have laid out. Let's not forget the competition which is Wildstar and Teso coming out this year. You might not want to invest that much capital into an mmo that will be two years old by that point when the competition is that strong.

 

80-100k/year is *really* high for an average salary, or at least a *median* salary. When I was talking to the CoX devs, the pay tended to be closer to 50-60k/year as median pay, mainly because the people that want to work in the gaming industry don't get pay that's really competitive with other programming jobs. They take the jobs and the lower pay because it's the industry they want to work in: they're interested in developing games, not redoing the back end and UI of an integrated grocery store checkout/inventory system.

 

Also, 200 developers for ongoing development is a *really* high estimate. Check the development credits for RotHC. It's nowhere near 200 people. Once you've gotten a game to release, the number of people you need to continue development on it shrinks massively because you're largely using the existing tools to create more stuff. The number of people working at Bioware Austin is probably less than 50, including in house testers (who generally get paid a pittance), though it would be nice to actually get a number.

 

Concerning the new games coming out, I think it's all the more reason for BW to want to release new classes and playstyles. Novelty is one of the things that brings people into a game and keeps your players playing. Makeb was interesting, but you could blow through it *crazy* fast, and it wasn't that different for most because the fundamental playstyle of the class was still largely preserved. Adding new classes adds both new full length stories (rather than a single story), which is one of the things that many players lament not having, *as well* as new playstyles. One of the best examples of this would be when WoW added Death Knights: the greatest draw behind them was the fact that they *played* different than any other class out there. The novelty, even though the story was pretty much the same (and it's not like people play WoW for the class stories), was a *major* contributor to the class's overwhelming success and brought a lot of players back into the fold.

[Myxam]

As the Echani/Thyrsian are species based cultures wouldn't it be better to use something that actually accepts a broad range of species into the fold rather than limit it to either pale, white-skinned, silver hair and eyed humans or the polar opposite (still human)?

 

Just some for food for thought, but what about the Matukai and the Death Watch instead (because there can never be enough Mandolorians, amiright?)?

 

Republic Side.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Matukai

 

Empire Side.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Watch

[Kitru]

As the Echani/Thyrsian are species based cultures wouldn't it be better to use something that actually accepts a broad range of species into the fold rather than limit it to either pale, white-skinned, silver hair and eyed humans or the polar opposite (still human)?

 

The Echani race proper is different than the Echani culture itself. The Echani *culture* is what provided the Echani with their pseudo-prescience, not the race itself, seeing as they fought almost from birth had the whole "combat as communication" as a fundamental aspect of the personality. The Echani weren't even remotely xenophobic and taught pretty much anyone that was interested in learning (Carth Onasi from KotOR learned some Echani).

 

It's much the same way that the Mandalorians started as a specific non-humanoid race and, by bringing in other races, they went from being known as a race and instead a culture proper. It's also interesting to note that it's only in the Old Republic era that the Echani are considered a race rather than a culture/martial art. The martial art is largely preserved but the race is largely not known, which means that, at some point in time, they went the way of the Mandalorian race. Assuming the construct/recent history I put together, it's entirely likely that such a cataclysm to their home planet and the subsequent adoption of other races (in addition to humans and other near-humans) into their culture could have been the catalyst to turn them from race into culture.

 

The whole race/culture disconnect was one of the things I tried to address when I put together the backstory, and I admit it's the biggest weak point of it all.

 

Just some for food for thought, but what about the Matukai and the Death Watch instead (because there can never be enough Mandolorians, amiright?)?

 

The Matukai are appropriate for the timeline but the problem is that the Matukai are *absurdly rare*, being limited to 50-60 Matukai at any one time, and they traveled in small groups while remaining distinct and isolated from the Jedi Order. Their rarity means that they would have to be added with a vast majority of their population represented and just standing still as trainers or starting planet NPCs (their discipline is unique enough to themselves that I doubt a Jedi is going to do it).

 

Of course, I like the idea of the Echani because they're specifically *not* Force users. They're melee combatants that can fight equal to a Jedi with their bare fists or simple melee weapons through sheer *skill* rather than using their magical powers to turbocharge their bodies. At that point, you have to start wondering how they're really all that different from a Jedi Guardian or Sentinel aside from the use of the polearm rather than lightsabers.

 

The Death Watch aren't appropriate because they're not appropriate to the timeline (they were founded in 60 BBY), and, even then, they're not really appreciably different from the Bounty Hunter (the only way they differ from the baseline Mandalorians is in philosophy). Plus, if you tried to work them in alongside the Makutai, like you seem to want to, you'd have the problem that one is explicitly Tech while the other is explicitly Force when mirror classes have to have the same power source (mainly for balance purposes, seeing as some Tech abilities can only be removed by the Tech cleanse whereas the same is true for some Force powers; having a different power source between the two would upset the equivalence between the classes since you would need a Tech cleanse to counter one while the other side would be able to use a Force cleanse).

 

The Echani and the Thyrsians are both large enough in population to justify the inevitable support network player classes require (they're large enough to populate multiple planets and have direct representation within the Republic, at the very least, which means they can probably spare a few trainers to stand around on the fleets training people), they're appropriate for the timeline, and they're explicitly and thematically different than the Jedi. The only major weakness (and one that can feasibly be explained away without breaking lore) would be the race/culture disconnect, but I think that's something that can be hand-waved a bit to account for the racial options (hell, it's possible to have the Hero of Tython or Barsen'thor be a Chiss or Pureblood Sith or the Grand Champion of the Great Hunt be a Miraluka; the racial options already include some pretty significant hand-waving). As long as there is some kind of reasonable explanation, which I think I provided, I don't think it's a problem.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Neat idea. but why not give it a Tech Staff if its a tech class? that would be a neat use for Tech Staves.

[Heathenblood]

Primary Attribute: Strength

 

I like your idea for a new class but this. Every class has their own primary stat and adding a new stat would be more preferred to me. Other wise you'd get players using maurader/sent armour since they are both medium armour as well. Not like adding a new primary stat would mess up the game because it'd only apply to this new class. Just like how cunning is pretty useless on a sage or something. Idk just a though not sure why you'd name it though.