The 4 Arguments of HIghly Overpowered Snipers

[Eillack]

I'm usually the only sniper in wz's...not sure where the OP is seeing a ton of them.

[ace_boogie]

Instead of stealth scan or detection or whatever it is they get, snipers should get (stationary) stealth. Where as long as we aren't moving or attacking, we can remain stealthed. Idea behind that being sort of like a ghillie suit. IRL you don't even know the sniper is there until he opens fire on you.

 

That damn bright red cover shield broadcasts your position to everybody. I'd gladly sacrifice my big damage numbers in a WZ to node guard for the lolz that are certain to ensue.

[Zunayson]

Sigh...

Just because you can kill people doesn't mean your OP.

 

On my Sorcerer hybrid spec if I try to play my best I can "Wreck" like all melee classes and Snipers. Does that make me OP?

 

People really need to stop crying about Sniper being OP, i's really not. I think half of you forget Snipers can ONLY DPS. Just because they can parse highest damage doesn't make them OP.

Even as a sorc, if I could only do half the damage a Sniper does I can still easily win a fight by LOS and healing up. Stop QQing just because your class doesn't do as high damage, each class brings something different to the table, stop trying to get everything. It's you people who ruin MMO's by nerfing every class into the ground and then still crying because your class isn't best.

 

Snipers get highest damage, but in return they can't self heal, can't stealth, aren't very mobile, pretty lame defensive cooldowns.

 

Snipers are op. Either they're op or I'm pro. If I can DPS you down before you kill me, it doesnt matter how low I get on hp, I can heal up OOC. If I can kill you before you kill me, it doesnt matter what my defenses are, my offenses are just too powerful. If I can kill you before you kill me, I get the objective.

 

I am a sniper, don't assume that I'm not just because I'm crying op here. They're op, face it. I'm not advocating nerfs per se; I want to stay op.

[Volxen]

Snipers are op. Either they're op or I'm pro. If I can DPS you down before you kill me, it doesnt matter how low I get on hp, I can heal up OOC. If I can kill you before you kill me, it doesnt matter what my defenses are, my offenses are just too powerful. If I can kill you before you kill me, I get the objective.

 

I am a sniper, don't assume that I'm not just because I'm crying op here. They're op, face it. I'm not advocating nerfs per se; I want to stay op.

 

Lmfao. Are you seriously arguing that snipers are "OP" because you are able to beat certain melee players in 1 vs 1? What a..... flawless argument.

 

Some of you are getting very, very desperate in your crusade to get snipers nerfed because you believe melee classes should faceroll everything. I'm sorry, but snipers aren't going to be free kills like mercenaries.

[TonyDragonflame]

There is not OP classes, there is dangerous players... for every class.

[MotorCityMan]

Snipers are op. Either they're op or I'm pro. If I can DPS you down before you kill me, it doesnt matter how low I get on hp, I can heal up OOC. If I can kill you before you kill me, it doesnt matter what my defenses are, my offenses are just too powerful. If I can kill you before you kill me, I get the objective.

 

I am a sniper, don't assume that I'm not just because I'm crying op here. They're op, face it. I'm not advocating nerfs per se; I want to stay op.

 

I looked up Zunayson's profile. Occupation: Troll Location: The Internets Interests: Trolling Occupation: Trolling.

 

I think he has summed up his contributions to the forums and this thread in particular very nicely.

[stupidsyrup]

I have not rolled a Sniper but unless I fall in love with a Scoundrel Healer when I roll one I'll make a Sniper. However I don't feel they're OP, and I'm a healer. When those Snipers are camped on the middle column in Ancient Hypergate, or crouched in the higher section of mid in Civil War, they're not OP. Those are the smart players who know how play their class and can play to their strengths by making you stay in their LoS. If you can make it to a Sniper in 1v1 you'll take him out unless you suck with your character. These were meant to stay in a high place, and make head shots while the tanks make like sponges. If they're smart, they'll make you stay in their LoS. If you're smart, you'll move out of LoS. L2P cuz they sure do.

[paowee]

Hopefully it does not take one whole year for the SWTOR PVP community to realize what the counter class(es) is(are)! I mean why are the warriors only starting to post now on the forums when snipers have always been their really hard counter since day one >_> Edited March 30, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

I've played Sniper for a while now (50 on live and fully aug'd WH) and I tried Lethality in 2.0, It only requires 6 abilities to be parsing the highest numbers ;\

 

Since you talked about parsing the highest numbers i am going to assume you are talking about sustained DPS (10 minute parses or longer on the training dummy).

 

Full Lethality in 2.0 will use CG, CD, WB, CULL, TD, SOS, AMBUSH, LS, SNIPE, SS, RS, TA. That is 12 abilities and not 6 to be parsing the highest numbers. (Add OS if you are absolutely keen on parsing the highest numbers for a total of 13 abiltiies all in all).

 

Hybrid in 2.0 will use CG, CD, IP, CULL, SOS, AMBUSH, LS, SNIPE, SS, RS, EP, TA. 12 abilities and not 6 to parse the highest numbers. (Add TD there for a total of 12 if the target is below 30% HP). (Add OS if you are absolutely keen on parsing the highest numbers for a total of 13 abiltiies all in all).

 

WaldoA I have reason to believe that your statement is inaccurate and in order to stop the spread of more misinformation, i felt the need to quote and correct it.

 

And while we are at it:

 

MM in 2.0 will use AMBUSH, SOS, LS, SNIPE, FT, SS, RS, TA, OS, SV, EP (and to some extent CD during the extra GCD you might get during SV rounds). Around 11 abilities to parse the highest numbers.

 

Also can you show us these parses that you've made?

 

 

I assume the OP is talking about Snipers in the PTS? lol. I agree that Marauders and Juggernauts will have a tremendously hard time, even "impossible" to solo and 1v1 a Sniper. How do DPS Sorcs, Ops, Mercs, PTs and Sins fare verus Snipers in 1v1 PVP?

 

Edited March 30, 2013 by paowee

[WaldoA]

Snipers are op. Either they're op or I'm pro. If I can DPS you down before you kill me, it doesnt matter how low I get on hp, I can heal up OOC. If I can kill you before you kill me, it doesnt matter what my defenses are, my offenses are just too powerful. If I can kill you before you kill me, I get the objective.

 

I am a sniper, don't assume that I'm not just because I'm crying op here. They're op, face it. I'm not advocating nerfs per se; I want to stay op.

 

No, no, no and more no.

 

Your justifying Sniper as overpowered because you can kill people before they kill you? Well that's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. You are a DPS class, you are meant to be doing damage, it's why you have 3 specs for different situations. I have every class but mercenary at level 50 and full WH geared and I can safely say that if played right, any of the 3 classes with self heals can kill a Sniper, or annoy him enough so that he/she will stop the fight to move away. Sure you might be doing way less damage but it's definitely true. I'll over exaggerate an example here; if a Merc steps out from behind a pillar and uses an attack that only deals 2k damage to a Sniper, and the Sniper does 5k damage to the Merc, the Merc can easily go back behind the pillar to heal where the Sniper can do nothing but sit there and wait or manoever, either way the Merc can heal up the damage they have taken.

 

Also, I'd like to touch up on a point NoTomorrow made in another thread, Snipers have actually been given a mini-nerf due to so many classes gaining mobility. A Sniper can destroy most classes given the class does not LOS them. In 2.0 classes get tools to make LOS/kiting alot easier. BH get hold the line for example making them immune to roots. IA get rolls dodging attacks while rolling. Jugg gets to use Obliterate while rooted/stunned. Inquisitor already have force speed and now Assassins will have their teleport and I guess you can count Sorcerers force barrier as a LOS due to taking no damage.

 

So please, stop crying out. I've already said it plenty, if anyone is overpowered, it's Operatives.

 

Operatives 18m (might be 16) roll has 0 CD and tied with alacrity they can gain majority of the energy used back within the GCD.

With Lethality their roll also has a 30% chance to proc a free 4k+ heal.

They get an on demand 15 sec 10% alacrity buff.

They can self heal.

They can stealth.

Their damage parses not much lower than a Sniper.

They get cover to stop leaps.

They have 2 large mez.

Their Shield Probe absorbs +30% more damage.

Their Shield Probe cooldown is also lowered by 60 seconds, up from 15.

A +50% speed buff for 4 seconds every 6 seconds.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that since their roll has 0 cooldown it can kite any class 100% of the time.

 

If those aren't OP I don't know what is..

 

I rest my case.

[WaldoA]

Since you talked about parsing the highest numbers i am going to assume you are talking about sustained DPS (10 minute parses or longer on the training dummy).

 

Full Lethality in 2.0 will use CG, CD, WB, CULL, TD, SOS, AMBUSH, LS, SNIPE, SS, RS, TA. That is 12 abilities and not 6 to be parsing the highest numbers. (Add OS if you are absolutely keen on parsing the highest numbers for a total of 13 abiltiies all in all).

 

Hybrid in 2.0 will use CG, CD, IP, CULL, SOS, AMBUSH, LS, SNIPE, SS, RS, EP, TA. 12 abilities and not 6 to parse the highest numbers. (Add TD there for a total of 12 if the target is below 30% HP). (Add OS if you are absolutely keen on parsing the highest numbers for a total of 13 abiltiies all in all).

 

WaldoA I have reason to believe that your statement is inaccurate and in order to stop the spread of more misinformation, i felt the need to quote and correct it.

 

And while we are at it:

 

MM in 2.0 will use AMBUSH, SOS, LS, SNIPE, FT, SS, RS, TA, OS, SV, EP (and to some extent CD during the extra GCD you might get during SV rounds). Around 11 abilities to parse the highest numbers.

 

 

 

Also can you show us these highest numbers parses that you've made? I'm genuinely curious to see if we both parse the same highest numbers with you only using 6 abilities and me using 12-13...

 

 

 

 

I assume the OP is talking about Snipers in the PTS? lol. I agree that Marauders and Juggernauts will have a tremendously hard time, even "impossible" to solo and 1v1 a Sniper. How do DPS Sorcs, Ops, Mercs, PTs and Sins fare verus Snipers in 1v1 PVP?

 

I was parsing around 2.7k in crap gear using only;

C. Dart

C. Grenade

Weakening Blast

Cull

Ambush

Series of Shots

 

Sure there can be higher with better gear and a good rotation, but 2.7k is high compared to other classes who have a harder time applying damage.

[paowee]

I was parsing around 2.7k in crap gear using only;

C. Dart

C. Grenade

Weakening Blast

Cull

Ambush

Series of Shots

 

Sure there can be higher with better gear and a good rotation, but 2.7k is high compared to other classes who have a harder time applying damage.

 

Can you post the log? Crap gear? It is really hard basing factual claims on very broad and vague terms...

Edited March 30, 2013 by paowee

[WaldoA]

Can you post the log? Crap gear? It is really hard basing factual claims on very broad and vague terms...

 

I don't have the log as it wasn't a serious attempt.

it was the free ark/black market gear with +113 power WH relics and nothing augmented, no stims either.

[paowee]

I don't have the log as it wasn't a serious attempt.

it was the free ark/black market gear with +113 power WH relics and nothing augmented, no stims either.

 

How long was your parse? blah,

 

2.7k dps in default arkanian gear (w/ set bonus or no set bonus)? Duration of parse? Using only 6 abilities you mentioned above that don't even include OS and TD? I would like to see the log because I find your claims hard to believe and extremely exaggerated and out of tune. Until you can post a parse though i implore you to not spread any claims and post them as the truth as it can mislead many players both Snipers and non-snipers alike. That is.. until you can show us evidence that you actually did it. Something to back up 2.7k DPS in default arkanian, not min-maxed, using only 6 abilities... no stims.... no OS... no TD... as Full Lethality, and not even making use of the Lethality talent with 55% chance to proc TD after Cull. Without using TD alone you will be missing roughly 6-7K damage every 21 seconds. What you are claiming is hard to believe without proof.

 

I'm not very good at math so correct me if im wrong here:

 

Say you do 2.7k dps in 5 minutes without TDs after Culls. You use Cull twice every 21 seconds so say that's 6000 damage every 21 seconds coming only from TD (which you are NOT doing because you only use 6 abilities in your rotation).

 

In 60 seconds you are then missing 18,000 damage. That is 300 damage per second you are missing by not using TD in your Lethality rotation. If you already do 2.7k DPS WITHOUT TD, then how much MORE would you do if you DO use TD? After months in the PTS, other players would have found this out and reported a broken and overpowered full lethality spec.

 

 

WaldoA.. i'll concede on this discussion, and will not believe a 2.7k dps parse using only 6 abilities, until i have something more concrete and more believable

Edited March 30, 2013 by paowee

[WaldoA]

How long was your parse? blah,

 

2.7k dps in default arkanian gear (w/ set bonus or no set bonus)? Duration of parse? Using only 6 abilities you mentioned above that don't even include OS and TD? I would like to see the log because I find your claims hard to believe and extremely exaggerated and out of tune. Until you can post a parse though i implore you to not spread any claims and post them as the truth as it can mislead many players both Snipers and non-snipers alike. That is.. until you can show us evidence that you actually did it. Something to back up 2.7k DPS in default arkanian, not min-maxed, using only 6 abilities... no stims.... no OS... no TD... as Full Lethality, and not even making use of the Lethality talent with 55% chance to proc TD after Cull. Without using TD alone you will be missing roughly 6-7K damage every 21 seconds. What you are claiming is hard to believe without proof.

 

I'm not very good at math so correct me if im wrong here:

 

Say you do 2.7k dps in 5 minutes without TDs after Culls. You use Cull twice every 21 seconds so say that's 6000 damage every 21 seconds coming only from TD (which you are NOT doing because you only use 6 abilities in your rotation).

 

In 60 seconds you are then missing 18,000 damage. That is 300 damage per second you are missing by not using TD in your Lethality rotation. If you already do 2.7k DPS WITHOUT TD, then how much MORE would you do if you DO use TD? After months in the PTS, other players would have found this out and reported a broken and overpowered full lethality spec.

 

 

WaldoA.. i'll concede on this discussion, and will not believe a 2.7k dps parse using only 6 abilities, until i have something more concrete and more believable

 

For one, the PTS is closed so I cannot do another parse. I'm not asking you to believe me either, I'm simply posting what happened, whether you want to believe me or not is not my concern. I can't even remember why I posted about it anyway, but we'll soon see what happens when 2.0 rolls I guess.

[paowee]

For one, the PTS is closed so I cannot do another parse. I'm not asking you to believe me either, I'm simply posting what happened, whether you want to believe me or not is not my concern. I can't even remember why I posted about it anyway, but we'll soon see what happens when 2.0 rolls I guess.

 

Indeed.

 

 

I wasn't exactly referring to ME me. it was just to make the conversation civil and focused. Otherwise it would be quite easy to enter and be Dat random troll and say something like "wheres your log? post that parse or get t fo it didnt happen i call bull****." or some variation of that.

Edited March 30, 2013 by paowee

[kamikrazy]

Just want to add one more thing: how you parse on a DUMMY is not indicative of how successful you'll be in an actual warzone, nor does it address the dynamics of inter-class combat.

[Zunayson]

No, no, no and more no.

 

Your justifying Sniper as overpowered because you can kill people before they kill you? Well that's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. You are a DPS class, you are meant to be doing damage, it's why you have 3 specs for different situations. I have every class but mercenary at level 50 and full WH geared and I can safely say that if played right, any of the 3 classes with self heals can kill a Sniper, or annoy him enough so that he/she will stop the fight to move away. Sure you might be doing way less damage but it's definitely true. I'll over exaggerate an example here; if a Merc steps out from behind a pillar and uses an attack that only deals 2k damage to a Sniper, and the Sniper does 5k damage to the Merc, the Merc can easily go back behind the pillar to heal where the Sniper can do nothing but sit there and wait or manoever, either way the Merc can heal up the damage they have taken.

 

Also, I'd like to touch up on a point NoTomorrow made in another thread, Snipers have actually been given a mini-nerf due to so many classes gaining mobility. A Sniper can destroy most classes given the class does not LOS them. In 2.0 classes get tools to make LOS/kiting alot easier. BH get hold the line for example making them immune to roots. IA get rolls dodging attacks while rolling. Jugg gets to use Obliterate while rooted/stunned. Inquisitor already have force speed and now Assassins will have their teleport and I guess you can count Sorcerers force barrier as a LOS due to taking no damage.

 

So please, stop crying out. I've already said it plenty, if anyone is overpowered, it's Operatives.

 

Operatives 18m (might be 16) roll has 0 CD and tied with alacrity they can gain majority of the energy used back within the GCD.

With Lethality their roll also has a 30% chance to proc a free 4k+ heal.

They get an on demand 15 sec 10% alacrity buff.

They can self heal.

They can stealth.

Their damage parses not much lower than a Sniper.

They get cover to stop leaps.

They have 2 large mez.

Their Shield Probe absorbs +30% more damage.

Their Shield Probe cooldown is also lowered by 60 seconds, up from 15.

A +50% speed buff for 4 seconds every 6 seconds.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that since their roll has 0 cooldown it can kite any class 100% of the time.

 

If those aren't OP I don't know what is..

 

I rest my case.

 

The roll is 12 m, but can be farther if done right. I've all but mastered the jump roll, which makes it ~18, but the bounce roll I have yet to solidly perform. Your speed buff is 2 seconds, not four seconds, unless they changed the shiv thingy. Shield probe is still 15 seconds off cd. The alacrity is near useless for anyone but heals, but the TA they gain is what makes the burst hurt. I parsed like 2500 or 2150 can't remember which, had a 5 in it , dunno about snipers.

 

Operatives are not necessarily as op because their damage (in this spec) takes lots of setup time compared to MM.

 

Note that my assertions in my "I can kill anyone" post were based on an aug'd - BM ****** multiple RANGED DPS and MELEE DPS, both of which in what I presume to be WH (18k+ hp). Yes, good snipers could beat me because snipers are super effective against snipers (Ghost and dragon type, anyone?).

 

My point is that because damage is so easy to dish out (Don't talk about skill or tactics, its literally click and mash keyboard), and because killing is the absolute easiest way to cap and obj, it is very OP to have loads of DPS.

 

Operatives, on the otherhand, are only getting their buffs now, as are ALL the classes. Here in 2.0, I have no clue which is best, I'm newb at all the new stuff and haven't even played all the classes enough to get any decent for me to even pretend like I know what I'm talking about. in other words, I can't say anything about 2.0, here.

 

It is true, though, that operatives are getting lots of mobility and utility buffs, but note that it doesn't matter if I can't kill you (Because you kite), as long as you don't kill me, I can cap objectives.

 

TL;DR damage is more op than anything else in the game (Healing maybe), so OP damage is more OP than OP mobility (I haven't played PTS that much, so I dont know how tanks are going to be), assuming equal magnitude.

 

Oh, and snipers are Op on live and always have been since like 1.6 (or as it 1.5? can't 'member)

Edited April 1, 2013 by Zunayson

[Tetsuos-despair]

All i see is just some crappy rant from a melee or in our case from a crappy assassin that has trouble keybinding his abilities.

 

^^This^^ HAHAHA! Good job digging that up!

 

Bads are so adorable, they can't for one second accept that they are just terrible @ PVP, same type of underachievers that blame everyone and everything else for their own mediocrity, lack of skill and inability to improve.

 

You can't fix something (aka yourself) if you won't even acknowledge it's broken!

[Jayshames]

Oh, and snipers are Op on live and always have been since like 1.6 (or as it 1.5? can't 'member)

 

Snipers are one of the most balanced classes on live..

[cashogy_reborn]

its great how parses on a stationary dummy that cant fight back are exactly representative of a class's damage output in a PvP environment

[Technohic]

Snipers are one of the most balanced classes on live..

 

I have a sniper and a gunslinger; and while I wouldn't call snipers on live OP; I do wonder what they are balanced with.

 

I mean; you have sage/sorc and merc/commando classes which I think are kind of in a bad spot outside of the one making use of a certain bubble. I would say they are underpowered if you use sniper as your norm.

 

then you have Operatives and Assassins which I have a hard time judging due to some being very good and some being very bad. I would say on average, assassins on live are in a good spot, while operatives still have maybe a little to be desired, although could be very dangerous given the ones that are very good. So maybe balanced with assassins as current and operatives being a bit underpowered.

 

Then, there are powertechs and marauders and juggs. Very powerful classes. Marauders are not so much a problem to snipers given smart positioning though; and PTs really are not much of a problem when kept at ranged. probably don't want to face tank them though if you can't keep them off you. I don't know that they are OP, but as snipers/slingers; we sort of have the luxury of being less at their mercy compared to all the other classes.

 

Sniper is well designed, I will give you that; but to say balanced, I would need to see the other classes that are as equally well designed. really, they need to start with Merc, and i would advise supporting mercs to get on even footing if you care anything for maintaining sniper as staying as good as they are on live. We do need balance and that is one way to achieve it. Then sage/sorc. then operatives.

 

This all pertains to as things are on live. I hate to comment on the pending changes which we do not have enough info for me to say one way or the other, what is what.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Technohic

[NuSeC]

All i see is just some crappy rant from a melee or in our case from a crappy assassin that has trouble keybinding his abilities.

 

^^This^^ HAHAHA! Good job digging that up!

 

Bads are so adorable, they can't for one second accept that they are just terrible @ PVP, same type of underachievers that blame everyone and everything else for their own mediocrity, lack of skill and inability to improve.

 

You can't fix something (aka yourself) if you won't even acknowledge it's broken!

 

 

I really have no dog in this race. However, I think he knew how to key-bind, his question had to do with the cntrl function of it. not key-binding itself.

 

I dont think this would make someone "Bad."

[KettleBelll]

Snipers are OP now, going to be moar OP on patch, and I'm glad I quit complaining and rerolled one!

[Volxen]

Snipers might seem overpowered when compared to the other ranged DPS classes, but that is because those classes are severely underpowered, especially mercenary. I certainly see no point in playing a so-called "ranged" class that can be leapt to when fighting from its maximum range; especially one that is just as much of a turret as a marksmanship sniper. With the 30m gap closers, there is simply next to no reason to play a DPS sorcerer or mercenary in this game.

 

It's unfortunate that only one of the three ranged DPS classes in this game was designed well, but that's just the way it is.