Headaches with marauders..

[killmaimburn]

I don't know how other people feel about this class. I don't like grouping with them. It seems to me that all marauders act in the same fashion. I don't know if they're in a club and have club meetings or its random chance... but each one I run with seems to think its the tank.

 

I have 2 healers (bh, sorc) and a tank (pt). On my healers, I really only have problems with marauders in certain ops where there's alot of aoe damage near the boss. Makes sense. Melee classes for some reason never pay attention to what's going on around them and get tunnel vision. I never really got aggravated with them though. Just this week though, I got my pt to 50 and transferred a bunch of gear using the legacy bound shells. I noticed instantly what other tanks in my guild were talking about. Marauders force leap ahead of the tank and take aggro of whatever they're attacking. I've got 1 aoe taunt and if the mobs are split apart he's probably going to die. The worst part is that mara's are so squishy I kind of feel like I can't save them when they go in head first and pretty much try to do my job for me. I don't understand why developers would give mara's force leap knowing that it's probably going to be the death of the mara using it.

 

I'm very frustrated by other players using maras. I was wondering if other people dislike grouping with mara's as much as I do. Or do I a fringe opinion? Please share your thoughts.

[AlexDougherty]

I play a Marauder, he definately isn't a tank, but his abilities are all hit fast, if he doesn't get into the fight straight away and stay there he isn't going to do as much damage.

 

Firstly his rage, a figure that goes up every time he hits, improves slightly how well he damages, and it also permits use of other abilities, but it counts down, if he does not smash his enemies it goes away.

 

Secondly his power/force bar dimishes slowly if he isn't hitting people, not as badly as his rage but not good.

 

In short a marauder is a flash in the pan fighter, not going to last long, but holding back won't help him either.

 

Note: not sure I've got rage and fury the right way round in my head, I know were to look on screen, but might have switched the names around, but then might not have.

[Qvasar]

Very well geared DPS (mostly sentinels/marauders) tend not to wait for tanks for stuff that doesn't requires any (i.e. flashpoints).

 

Also I would hardly call sentinels/marauders squishy...

 

Defensive / Escape / Threat Drop Abilities

• Rebuke/Cloak of Pain: Reduces all damage taken by 20% <snip>. Lasts 6 seconds. Rebuke refreshes to its full duration when attacked, but this effect cannot last more than 30 seconds in total. (60s cooldown)
  
• Saber Ward: Raises a lightsaber ward, increasing melee and ranged defense by 50% and reducing the damage taken from Force and tech attacks by 25%. Lasts 12 seconds. (180s cooldown)
  
• Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage: Spends 50% of current health to grant 99% damage reduction for 4 seconds. (90s cooldown)
  
• Transcendence/Predation: Requires and converts 30 stacks of Centering to issue Transcendence to you and your group, increasing movement speed by 50% and melee and ranged defense by 10%. Lasts 10 seconds.
  
• Force Camouflage: Obscures yourself with the Force, becoming difficult to detect, reducing your threat towards all enemies, reducing all damage taken by 50%, and increasing movement speed by 30%. Lasts 4 seconds. Dealing direct damage ends the effect prematurely. (45s cooldown)
  

 

Target Debuff / Crowd Control Abilities

• Pacify/Obfustcate: Pacifies the target, reducing its melee and ranged accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds. Cannot be used on Operation bosses. This ability does not respect the global cooldown.
  
• Awe/Intimidating Roar: Confounds all nearby enemies, preventing all action for up to 6 seconds. Damage ends the effect prematurely. Has no effect on droids. (60s cooldown)
  
• Disable Droid: Shuts down the target droid, incapacitating it for 60 seconds. <snip> Damage causes this effect to end prematurely. Only one droid can be disabled at a time.
  

 

Also depending on the specialization you can reduce the cooldown and increase the duration / effectiveness of these abilities or get (for exemple) 30% AoE damage reduction. Sentinels/Marauders aren't squishy, they are however a popular class and a lot of people play it poorly.

 

As for the "impatience" and leap ahead my explanation is:

1. The player is very good, knows his class inside out, is very well geared, and knows what he can take on so he doesn't wait for tank.
   
2. The player is very bad, doesn't know what he is doing, doesn't even know what a tank is so he doesn't wait for the tank and dies.
   

Edited March 25, 2013 by Qvasar

[Hizoka]

the issue is no matter what all melee will take some damage in OPs its the nature of melee... the problem is most bad melee are too stupid to take the talent that reduces AoE damage by 30% if they do not have that then remove then from your ops and tell them to L2P simple as that.

 

 

All the DPS in the world doesn't mean crap when you are dead. On top of that no good marauder/sentinel would go into an OPs without that talent... they might claim they are good but in reality they are simply stupid.

[Amlici]

I like playing a Powertech as melee you still have ranged dps abilities and a couple of defensive cds. Their dps is great too. You don't have to rely completely on marauders for your melee. Especially if they are bad. Powertechs can do their job just as well

[KyaniteD]

I always let the tank go first and pull aggro - that's very much a no-brainer - and then I use force leap.

 

Have you played a Sith Warrior yourself? As opposed to other classes, they start with an empty resource pool (rage) that builds up during fighting and diminishes when out of combat. So they're in a hurry to start the fight quickly because they're constantly losing rage while out of combat.

 

I find myself getting impatient with tanks that wait too long between trash mobs, too. But even though it's frustrating to watch my rage bar gar down to zero just before the tank start the fight, I still wait and then do whatever I can to get some damage in. Force leap generates a basic amount of rage, so it helps us to get into our rotation. Also, when the tank started the fight, we're all slowed down and the leap gets us to our targets.

 

Ranged dps is much more comfortable in that regard, they can start dps with a burst the moment the fight starts while maras and sents have to get to their target and build up their resource pool.

 

 

(Not defending dps going in before the tank or neglecting their defensive abilities, but offering my perspective on why we have and need force leap.)

[Qvasar]

the issue is no matter what all melee will take some damage in OPs its the nature of melee... the problem is most bad melee are too stupid to take the talent that reduces AoE damage by 30% if they do not have that then remove then from your ops and tell them to L2P simple as that.

 

 

All the DPS in the world doesn't mean crap when you are dead. On top of that no good marauder/sentinel would go into an OPs without that talent... they might claim they are good but in reality they are simply stupid.

 

True, there is only one situation where it's admissible not to have that ability - fights that have absolutly no AoE/cleave damage. This is assuming you bother respeccing mid-ops (I change my spec depending on the boss fight because I'm a perfectionist ).

 

So they're in a hurry to start the fight quickly because they're constantly losing rage while out of combat.

 

Not just focus/rage but also the centering/fury stacks, the last being exceedingly annoying.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Qvasar

[Hizoka]

True, there is only one situation where it's admissible not to have that ability - fights that have absolutly no AoE/cleave damage. This is assuming you bother respeccing mid-ops (I change my spec depending on the boss fight because I'm a perfectionist ).

 

 

 

Not just focus/rage but also the centering/fury stacks, the last being exceedingly annoying.

see that is simply a waste of time. its best just to leave it on as the amount of time that you cannot get hit is minimal... and there is no talent good enough to both swapping to.

[KyaniteD]

Not just focus/rage but also the centering/fury stacks, the last being exceedingly annoying.

 

Oh yes, definitely those. Hate seeing them running out unused. :-/

[Qvasar]

see that is simply a waste of time. its best just to leave it on as the amount of time that you cannot get hit is minimal... and there is no talent good enough to both swapping to.

 

I usually play combat. For exemple on Kephess HM/NiM it is useful to have a Fleeetfooted/Unbound for Gift of the Masters. In all other fights it's 100% useless. But to be honest the 30% AoE reduction is not something I usually leave out, ever, was just an exemple

[bibobpipop]

My mara has some 24k health, defo not squishy And i always wait till the tank made his first move befoe i leap in...don't wanna die

[Qvasar]

My mara has some 24k health, defo not squishy

 

I'm sorry but you got that wrong. Squishiness has little to do with health. Health only provides a "cushion" so that the healer has time to react when you are taking heavy damage. Damage avoidance/mitigation are what makes someone less squishy - damage reduction (i.e. armor rating), defense chance, shield, absorb, ...

 

Now the reason I really say you got that wrong is - you are not a tank - so why do you have 24k health? You are favoring high endurance mods over the stats tha make you a better DPS. In full augmented Dread Guard I have about 21.8k health and I wish I could go lower since I don't need that big of a "cushion".

 

My Gear

[Abydon]

I have a Carnage Marauder for my main class. I know I'm "squishy" as compared to my warrior brother Juggernaut, but not as squishy as some other classes. That being said, if you have a marauder that is constantly jumping in before the tank, they simply have NO CLUE as to their roles. I never have an issue with building rage nor fury. As a marauder, I don't go straight after the bosses, I go for the adds when applicable. If there are no adds, I either wait 5 seconds before jumping in or jump in right after the tank and use battering assault and a couple basic attacks to get my rage bar built up to full before unleashing hell on the mob. On Fabricator in KP I usually take the time to ask to hit the boss to build up my stacks of fury before the puzzle is started. Not all Marauders are stupid in other words. I have a good guild that I get into voice chat with and we talk strategies and know what each other are capable of. My tanks know what mobs I can handle without them wasting a taunt on so they can better protect the group. It's about communication and knowing your class. I ALWAYS go for defensive rolls in my spec. My Carnage Spec Marauder needs that as it is a PvE only marauder. I have a smash Marauder for PVP. Maybe instead of pugging with Marauders who don't know their roles, you should look into finding a static group or a guild who knows what they are doing and go from there. I have seen Snipers who can't keep their hands off their Orbital Strike skill the same way you describe marauders. Same with Sorcs and their Death Fields. It's not just a Marauder issue. It's a PLAYER issue all around the board. With people coming in from other F2P/Pay 2 Win games where group mechanics are frequently ignored (i.e Runes of Magic) we will see more players like this. When 2.0 comes out Marauders will be able to use their "Channle Hatred" out-of-combat heal to build their Fury stacks instead of having to rush in so the enrage timers aren't hit as frequently.

[Toweleeeie]

WE have a club,

 

 

Sounds like you are playing with scrubs.

[Kampori]

the issue is no matter what all melee will take some damage in OPs its the nature of melee... the problem is most bad melee are too stupid to take the talent that reduces AoE damage by 30% if they do not have that then remove then from your ops and tell them to L2P simple as that.

 

 

All the DPS in the world doesn't mean crap when you are dead. On top of that no good marauder/sentinel would go into an OPs without that talent... they might claim they are good but in reality they are simply stupid.

 

I'm sorry, but I can't disagree with this enough. Yes, the damage reduction is nice, but if you're not brain-dead during the fight, you can avoid most avoidable AoE anyway. Taking these talents are a huge waste of DPS.

Annihilation mara, full DG, 21k health. Never once, ONCE, have I died in ops due to AoE. It is negligible damage, unless you stay in it. And if you do, you're just dumb. It is MUCH MUCH better to put those extra talents into Rage, for extra smash, vicious throw and vicious slash by 15%. That is huge damage, for your execute and rage spender. Used properly, this contributed to about 17% of my damage. That is massive. huge. and a ridiculous waste to not have. Especially during EC NiM tanks fight, extra dps is crucial.

 

EDIT- also, with cloak of pain and especially obfucscate, I can kill anything but champions before taking more than 5% health. It's only tanks who don't realise they don't need to tank everything that causes a lot of problems. (my 2 main chars are a sin and jugger tank)

Edited March 25, 2013 by Kampori

[Qvasar]

I'm sorry, but I can't disagree with this enough. Yes, the damage reduction is nice, but if you're not brain-dead during the fight, you can avoid most avoidable AoE anyway. Taking these talents are a huge waste of DPS.

 

On Combat/Carnage there is nowhere else you can put those points :\ Other specs sure...

Edited March 25, 2013 by Qvasar

[DonkeyGobbler]

I have both a sentinel and a marauder. Some play like you've described (I've vote kicked a sentinel from a FP before for chain pulling even after the tank asked him to stop) but don't tar us all with the same brush.

 

My mara has some 24k health

 

Then you're geared very badly, sorry. You've likely got more endurance than strength which is ridiculous for dps. Don't take "stock" BH gear and simply equip it - it requires moving mods around to get optimal figures.

[Kampori]

On Combat/Carnage there is nowhere else you can put those points :\ Other specs sure...

 

That's a very good point. Sorry, I so rarely go carnage I forget! For annihilation maras then, it's crucial. Especially with self-healing etc, AoE damage reduction isn't important.

[Hizoka]

I'm sorry, but I can't disagree with this enough. Yes, the damage reduction is nice, but if you're not brain-dead during the fight, you can avoid most avoidable AoE anyway. Taking these talents are a huge waste of DPS.

Annihilation mara, full DG, 21k health. Never once, ONCE, have I died in ops due to AoE. It is negligible damage, unless you stay in it. And if you do, you're just dumb. It is MUCH MUCH better to put those extra talents into Rage, for extra smash, vicious throw and vicious slash by 15%. That is huge damage, for your execute and rage spender. Used properly, this contributed to about 17% of my damage. That is massive. huge. and a ridiculous waste to not have. Especially during EC NiM tanks fight, extra dps is crucial.

 

EDIT- also, with cloak of pain and especially obfucscate, I can kill anything but champions before taking more than 5% health. It's only tanks who don't realise they don't need to tank everything that causes a lot of problems. (my 2 main chars are a sin and jugger tank)

 

no matter what there is damage on many if not most fights that simply hits everyone. If you are neglecting this talent it means you are self centered and don't give a damn about your raid thus making you a piss poor raider. ANY TIME there is a talent that can reduce stress on your healers a good raider will always take that talent.

 

Like i said before good players take the ones who don't simply think they are good while being terrible and burden on the rest of their raid.

 

Here is an example. Take the lighting attack from hard/heroic dread masters in TFB EVERYONE gets hit by it no matter what.. with the 30% reduction added to cloak of pain and force ammo you can reduce that damage by 100% meaning the healers do not have to send you any heals thus making it easier for the healers to top everyone off you also do not need to go to the group for AoE heals allowing you greater uptime on the boss.

 

Good raiders know this bad ones are simply too ignorant to see why things like that are such a bonus to the good raiders.

[Kampori]

no matter what there is damage on many if not most fights that simply hits everyone. If you are neglecting this talent it means you are self centered and don't give a damn about your raid thus making you a piss poor raider. ANY TIME there is a talent that can reduce stress on your healers a good raider will always take that talent.

 

Like i said before good players take the ones who don't simply think they are good while being terrible and burden on the rest of their raid.

 

Here is an example. Take the lighting attack from hard/heroic dread masters in TFB EVERYONE gets hit by it no matter what.. with the 30% reduction added to cloak of pain and force ammo you can reduce that damage by 100% meaning the healers do not have to send you any heals thus making it easier for the healers to top everyone off you also do not need to go to the group for AoE heals allowing you greater uptime on the boss.

 

Good raiders know this bad ones are simply too ignorant to see why things like that are such a bonus to the good raiders.

 

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. More damage is equal to reduced damage taken, if the extra damage is a lot more than what you receive. And as I said, if you're a good player you won't get hit by more than minimum damage, which as YOU said everyone gets hit for, so it makes no difference. healers have to heal it anyway. Sorry, but you're a piss poor player if you think extra 15% damage on your EXECUTE is not worth taking. I've gone through all progression raids, so I'm sorry, but I know what I'm doing, as does my raid team. They prefer it like this, I prefer it like this. I already said I've never once died from AoE, and kill things a lot quicker. Logic

edit: just on top, all maras in our guild have the same talents, and all our maras are top dps. Speaking to our healer RIGHT NOW, who is next to me as I type this, says that healing off a mara is no challenge nor necessary.

edit x2: I'm also annihilation, which I said. Self-healing + cloak of pain + rakata medpac = no damage.

 

Edit x3: also, if your healers are STRESSED, then either your healers ,tanks or dps is bad. Healers shouldn't be stressed. Even on Kephess NiM, healers ONLY get 'stressed' when tanks **** up. Not before.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Kampori

[Qvasar]

@ Hizoka & Kampori:

 

You are both right, just talking about different things. Not all groups/fights are the same and you can't carve a rule in stone and be done with it.

 

The people around you greatly influence the optimal skill tree. Examples:

• If you are just barely making the enrage timer go for whatever abilities increase your DPS.
  
• If you are nowhere near the enrage timer and have underexperienced/undergeared healers go for damage reduction.
  
• Etc...
  

 

Also we are way off topic

[DonkeyGobbler]

no matter what there is damage on many if not most fights that simply hits everyone. If you are neglecting this talent it means you are self centered and don't give a damn about your raid thus making you a piss poor raider. ANY TIME there is a talent that can reduce stress on your healers a good raider will always take that talent.

 

DPS are there to DPS, healers are there to heal. If you can reduce the stress on a healer without negating DPS output then fine. If you can't, then don't do it because your healer will struggle to keep you up during that boss enrage due to lacking DPS...

 

On my gunslinger sharpshooter build I eventually end up in the second tree and my final point could be spent on increasing endurance or aoe damage output. Please tell me you wouldn't recommend the increased endurance.

[Kampori]

@ Hizoka & Kampori:

 

You are both right, just talking about different things. Not all groups/fights are the same and you can't carve a rule in stone and be done with it.

 

The people around you greatly influence the optimal skill tree. Examples:

• If you are just barely making the enrage timer go for whatever abilities increase your DPS.
  
• If you are nowhere near the enrage timer and have underexperienced/undergeared healers go for damage reduction.
  
• Etc...
  

 

Also we are way off topic

 

Fair point. I guess we're never lax for DPS or heals, so I never have to think about it. With a less than optimal raid, sure. And as I said in my earlier post, the damage reduction is nice, but all I'm saying is for an annihilation mara, it is NOT a definite necessity as people here are saying.

[DawnAskham]

I have a geared (very over geared for early Ops and HM FPs) marauder and a sentinel, and I can't stand pug tanks that take their sweet time between pulls doing god knows what while my resources go from nearly full to empty and my stacks of fury / centering fall off.

 

It isn't rocket science you know. And since I know my class and know the content, I have been known to leap ahead (usually while whispering with the healer some version of '*** is with this slow tank') if the tank is just standing around refusing to attack, all the while using my CDs to take little damage while obliterating everything in sight.

 

And no, I don't randomly leap (I also hate bad random leapers on my tanks) nor stand in aoe. I do use my class abilities to help the group such as CC'ing droids on the fly, putting debuffs on mobs, popping my speed and defensive CDs when needed, and even giving the party a big buff to damage and healing during burn phases.

 

Sorry that you have gotten bad players in your groups. I feel your pain. I did get two new 50 sentinels the other day on my shadow. It was god awful as each one would leap off in their own direction, usually at a gold or pack of strong mobs.

 

Somehow neither of them could find a defensive cooldown and would end up dead, leaving me to try and round up multiple mobs, including all the weak spawned mobs they ignored that are beating on the healer, and slowly grinding them all down

[BambulaGTS]

As PT you got:

 

30 m DFA AoE,

30 m AoE taunt,

30 m charge and again free AoEs with flame burst after, nevertheless, you can instantly switch guard on mara (- treat), and you will be on range of guard due to charge.

 

Do that marauders are so much problem?