Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking

[Righness]

I have a few questions abour your build. Linked is the build I am building towards and it looks very close to yours. I am currently lvl 30 and this is my first/main char heading up the chain. ALso, it is good to note I am a soloist with virtually no teaming/grouping practices. I am curious as to why you chose Guard and Thrust to be useless and Battlefield Command to be useful in PVE? My personal logic is that, allthough it is not largely beneficial Guard and Thrust give me more access to Riposte if needed and I have never really found myself needing leap while it was still on CD.

 

Second question, you said that Jedi Warden is a PVP only and I have force push as a common power I use for interupt and to give me leap again for the focus generating. I know I am not up in the tree enough to use the power skill yet but I figured it would be great for me to have access to push/interupt again sooner. I know with stasis and kick I have enough interupts but I have found it has been useful and would be nice to have the CD buff.

Lastly, you chose 1 point to go to Accuracy, I know you said it was not beneficial in your commentary on gear (if memory serves) but do you think that this is a better point allocation than that of insight for the force crit bonus?

 

I am by no means an expert just interested in your logic.

 

Those questions being asked, I am greatful for your post and assist for those new to this field. It is great to have a fallback guide to go to. I really appreciate your explanation of the priorities because I for instinctive purposes have always just gone for the strength because of being a melee class. I am looking forward to switching my gear to focus more on the other stats. So overall I thought this was a great guide and look forward to any answers you give.

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500GMRrddMRrzGzZcMMZd.3

[Luckeyduckey]

kk, thanks one more question: on single-target rotation, especially b4 i get courage, say on a lone boss or elite, is the 5% acc debuff worth the loss in dps if i use force sweep instead of slash?

I would say use it. It's not a huge loss, it's force (which generally is better), and we're there to survive, not kill. So, the accuracy is pretty much like a 5% plus to defense. So, in other words, do it.

[grallmate]

Awesome guide! This will be great once my guardian is 50. I noticed though, that you said that Slash had a reduced cost when specced? I didn't see that in any of the skill talents. Could you have mistaken it for Cyclonic Sweeps, reducing the cost by 1 for Blade Storm, Cyclone Slash, and Guardian Slash?

 

Otherwise, amazing guide. T'was a great read.

 

Yeah that would be a typo, thanks for catching that one. I have a vague recollection about it being reduced in 1.x but I ran the Hybrid so didn't have the talent (if it even existed). Fixed now.

 

kk, thanks one more question: on single-target rotation, especially b4 i get courage, say on a lone boss or elite, is the 5% acc debuff worth the loss in dps if i use force sweep instead of slash?

 

Force Sweep generates 30% more threat thanks to Single Saber Mastery so in a group where as a tank we are more concerned with threat than DPS its pretty much even, it also has that 5% accuracy debuff which makes a small difference in your damage taken. If you're talking solo content its pretty much a wash since you don't need to be a tank to clear that. I'd use it personally, if for no other reason than to get used to its range so you can use it around CCs later on.

 

I have a few questions abour your build. Linked is the build I am building towards and it looks very close to yours. I am currently lvl 30 and this is my first/main char heading up the chain. ALso, it is good to note I am a soloist with virtually no teaming/grouping practices. I am curious as to why you chose Guard and Thrust to be useless and Battlefield Command to be useful in PVE? My personal logic is that, allthough it is not largely beneficial Guard and Thrust give me more access to Riposte if needed and I have never really found myself needing leap while it was still on CD.

 

Second question, you said that Jedi Warden is a PVP only and I have force push as a common power I use for interupt and to give me leap again for the focus generating. I know I am not up in the tree enough to use the power skill yet but I figured it would be great for me to have access to push/interupt again sooner. I know with stasis and kick I have enough interupts but I have found it has been useful and would be nice to have the CD buff.

Lastly, you chose 1 point to go to Accuracy, I know you said it was not beneficial in your commentary on gear (if memory serves) but do you think that this is a better point allocation than that of insight for the force crit bonus?

 

I am by no means an expert just interested in your logic.

 

Those questions being asked, I am greatful for your post and assist for those new to this field. It is great to have a fallback guide to go to. I really appreciate your explanation of the priorities because I for instinctive purposes have always just gone for the strength because of being a melee class. I am looking forward to switching my gear to focus more on the other stats. So overall I thought this was a great guide and look forward to any answers you give.

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500GMRrddMRrzGzZcMMZd.3

 

Trust me, I though exactly the same as you at first. The other important thing to note is I consider "Ops Boss Tanking" as PvE. When running a build that can tank bosses you can also tank trash, the opposite isn't always true nor is trash 'hard' enough to require special speccing.

 

From my testing, Guard and Thrust would reduce the CD on Riposte but I'd still be waiting a couple of extra seconds for the proc to actually use it. Effectively I was getting 1-2 more Ripostes every 150 seconds. Comparatively, having an effective 9s CD on Leap means I can move around a lot more and once you start over gearing them like people are now, you will frequently be wanting to do the next pull while your leap is still on CD without that talent. You also say you've mostly soloed thus far and while soloing, as a tank, you won't be killing things before leap comes off CD naturally. In a group (or as a DPS), you will.

 

I don't like Jedi Warden for 2 reasons. Firstly, bosses are immune to control (Push and Slow) and interrupts. Secondly, you tend to only get 1 leap in per boss so resetting the CD isn't useful. There are some pulls where I am looking for Push to come off CD so I can position mobs but above level 50, Saber Reflect makes those REAL easy since those mobs will either run in themselves or build aggro on themselves with Reflect. I think the only time I really want to Push more often is on Cademimu because those Champions (well, Elites in HM) have way too much HP.

 

Yes I realise that the above points are a little contradictory. More leaps on trash is miles better than 1-2 extra Ripostes on a boss while Jedi Warden is almost completely worthless on a boss. Sometimes QOL talents are better than a very small numerical advantage.

 

Accuracy vs Crit: If you have less than 100% accuracy (which you should as a tank), 1% accuracy is ~1% more damage dealt and 1% more TPS. Comparatively, because of our low (51%) surge, 1% FORCE crit is ~0.5% more damage and threat from FORCE attacks. The only force attacks we use in normal rotation are Force Sweep and Blade Storm. Also, hitting on our opener more consistently (thanks to higher accuracy) means we're less likely to lose aggro in the opening seconds of a fight. Thanks to the multiplicative nature of taunt, threat can be completely ignored after about 25 seconds if you taunt boost.

 

Until about level 45+ feel free to focus on strength instead of mitigation stats since it will make levelling much faster. At 50 outfit yourself with mitigation gear (focus on Enhancements and Mods) from the Makeb planetary comm vendor and start running the 50 Hard Modes.

[Righness]

Trust me, I though exactly the same as you at first. The other important thing to note is I consider "Ops Boss Tanking" as PvE. When running a build that can tank bosses you can also tank trash, the opposite isn't always true nor is trash 'hard' enough to require special speccing.

 

From my testing, Guard and Thrust would reduce the CD on Riposte but I'd still be waiting a couple of extra seconds for the proc to actually use it. Effectively I was getting 1-2 more Ripostes every 150 seconds. Comparatively, having an effective 9s CD on Leap means I can move around a lot more and once you start over gearing them like people are now, you will frequently be wanting to do the next pull while your leap is still on CD without that talent. You also say you've mostly soloed thus far and while soloing, as a tank, you won't be killing things before leap comes off CD naturally. In a group (or as a DPS), you will.

 

I don't like Jedi Warden for 2 reasons. Firstly, bosses are immune to control (Push and Slow) and interrupts. Secondly, you tend to only get 1 leap in per boss so resetting the CD isn't useful. There are some pulls where I am looking for Push to come off CD so I can position mobs but above level 50, Saber Reflect makes those REAL easy since those mobs will either run in themselves or build aggro on themselves with Reflect. I think the only time I really want to Push more often is on Cademimu because those Champions (well, Elites in HM) have way too much HP.

 

Yes I realise that the above points are a little contradictory. More leaps on trash is miles better than 1-2 extra Ripostes on a boss while Jedi Warden is almost completely worthless on a boss. Sometimes QOL talents are better than a very small numerical advantage.

 

Accuracy vs Crit: If you have less than 100% accuracy (which you should as a tank), 1% accuracy is ~1% more damage dealt and 1% more TPS. Comparatively, because of our low (51%) surge, 1% FORCE crit is ~0.5% more damage and threat from FORCE attacks. The only force attacks we use in normal rotation are Force Sweep and Blade Storm. Also, hitting on our opener more consistently (thanks to higher accuracy) means we're less likely to lose aggro in the opening seconds of a fight. Thanks to the multiplicative nature of taunt, threat can be completely ignored after about 25 seconds if you taunt boost.

 

Until about level 45+ feel free to focus on strength instead of mitigation stats since it will make levelling much faster. At 50 outfit yourself with mitigation gear (focus on Enhancements and Mods) from the Makeb planetary comm vendor and start running the 50 Hard Modes.

 

The funny thing is that your answer came at the same time (when I checked at least) as someone else who replied to my initial post about my build saying pretty close to the same thing. My being the believer in the timeless quote "the testimony of two or three witnesses makes it true" and since there has been no arguement to the contrary I will take it with even more into consideration. Either way thanks for the words of wisdom and I will play with my build, being a suscriber it is a blessing to be able to respec whenev I want somuch obliged for the quick and detailed response.

[HighGamerCat]

First off thank you for very easy to read and understand guide. I am new to tanking and guides like yours are invaluable. At this moment I have 2 tanks that I'm building (assassin and guardian) both below 55 atm.

My question at this point, assuming I do not yet have top tier gear, what stims would you recommend I use (boosting endurance or primary stat)? I have biochem as my crafting skill, and after trying both types I cannot at this point decide which one I prefer better. I would also guess that some of it depends on the healer, but I wanted to know as a general rule what I should do. Thank you again!

[grallmate]

First off thank you for very easy to read and understand guide. I am new to tanking and guides like yours are invaluable. At this moment I have 2 tanks that I'm building (assassin and guardian) both below 55 atm.

My question at this point, assuming I do not yet have top tier gear, what stims would you recommend I use (boosting endurance or primary stat)? I have biochem as my crafting skill, and after trying both types I cannot at this point decide which one I prefer better. I would also guess that some of it depends on the healer, but I wanted to know as a general rule what I should do. Thank you again!

 

While leveling I'd use the main stat for both. Personally I spend most of my time running with a Strength stim on my Guardian and tend to swap to my Endurance one later into the fight if needed. Really though, aside from Kephess (EC) and HM Thrasher I haven't found that to be really necessary and end up just sticking with the Strength one.

 

Technically, the best route at 55 is to use the Endurance one for the extra defense rating. However the difference is quite small and isn't likely to make or break a run. Outside of progression raiding use whatever you like (as I said, I'm a strength user personally). In a progression environment I'd suggest either running an Endurance one.

[Alizen]

Why is this not a sticky?

[HighGamerCat]

While leveling I'd use the main stat for both. Personally I spend most of my time running with a Strength stim on my Guardian and tend to swap to my Endurance one later into the fight if needed. Really though, aside from Kephess (EC) and HM Thrasher I haven't found that to be really necessary and end up just sticking with the Strength one.

 

Technically, the best route at 55 is to use the Endurance one for the extra defense rating. However the difference is quite small and isn't likely to make or break a run. Outside of progression raiding use whatever you like (as I said, I'm a strength user personally). In a progression environment I'd suggest either running an Endurance one.

 

Perfect, thanks! That's kind of what I have been doing with my guardian (who has more defensive gear than my assassin atm). And on a side note, welcome to The Harbinger

[Thiartc]

Hi.

 

I'm completely new to this whole tanking thing and have a couple of questions.

 

1 farmed elite commendations on my main and kitted out my tank with 6 pieces bulwark mk1 and a chest 172 piece in there. main hand and off hand bought with Arkanian tokens and just replaced the armoring and hilt so i could send to ti my alt. I bought veracity experimental reaction implants and bulwark module and for relics i used 150 classic and 150 basic comms.

 

My HP is round about 32k, without any augments. Is this enough to start doing HM FP's?

 

Like i said, i've never tanked before and don't just want to jump into the fire and kill everyone that waited in the queue for 45 minutes. what do you guys suggest, maybe do a couple of Normal FP's, where i outgear the content and work my way up to HM level 50's and then 55's, or would my gear be enough to carry me through. I've done all the HM's many times on a ranged DPS so i know what is going on within the FP, but just not from the other side.

 

Thanks

Edited June 19, 2013 by Thiartc

[Resolute]

Short answer, yes. More than enough gear.

 

Longer answer, for HM 55 fps it has as much to do with knowing the fights as it does with gear when it comes to tanking. If you are familiar with them, have no fears, you wi do fine. If you are not, then check some YouTube videos, read some guides or play the FPs on a DPS or healer alt and watch how the tank does it.

 

Edit: on a side note, why is this guide still not stickied?

Edited June 20, 2013 by Resolute

[grallmate]

Hi.

 

I'm completely new to this whole tanking thing and have a couple of questions.

 

1 farmed elite commendations on my main and kitted out my tank with 6 pieces bulwark mk1 and a chest 172 piece in there. main hand and off hand bought with Arkanian tokens and just replaced the armoring and hilt so i could send to ti my alt. I bought veracity experimental reaction implants and bulwark module and for relics i used 150 classic and 150 basic comms.

 

My HP is round about 32k, without any augments. Is this enough to start doing HM FP's?

 

Like i said, i've never tanked before and don't just want to jump into the fire and kill everyone that waited in the queue for 45 minutes. what do you guys suggest, maybe do a couple of Normal FP's, where i outgear the content and work my way up to HM level 50's and then 55's, or would my gear be enough to carry me through. I've done all the HM's many times on a ranged DPS so i know what is going on within the FP, but just not from the other side.

 

Thanks

 

Gear wise you are fine. Unfortunately the 55s are a real eye opener the first time you run them and if you're learning to tank, they're the school of hard knocks. You'll learn or die. Personally, I'd suggest duoing some of the 50 HMs with a guild healer (not group finder) and your DPS companions to get the hang of keeping aggro off the healer and practice some of the trash tactics I mentioned in the guide.

 

If you want to jump straight into 55 HMs just mention to the group that you're newish to tanking and they'll usually be a lot more lenient. Also remember which pulls other tanks have called for CC on (and pay attention to which mobs specifically) and understand why they wanted that particular mob in that particular pull CCed. For me, it was usually the ones that cast Heat Beam since its an Elemental attack and/or the ones on the edge so we can still AoE. Different tanks like different things CCed so just get comfortable.

[Thiartc]

Good Morning.

 

Did 5 HM FP's, not whipes, no deaths, and that was before i found out we have an AOE taunt, haha.

[Shadowseve]

Excellent guide, very well written and concise. The only thing that I don't like is I just made a jugg so now I have to look up all the mirrored abilities lol . However, that is my issue and certainly not a flaw in the guide itself.

[Thiartc]

Jugg Guard

Saber Throw - - - - - Saber Throw

Force Charge - - - - -Force Leap

Crushing Blow- - - - -Guardian Slash

Force Scream- - - - -Blade Storm

Sundering Assault- - - - -Sundering Strike

Backhand- - - - -Hilt Strike

Smash- - - - -Force Sweep

Retaliation- - - - -Riposte

Force Scream- - - - -Blade Storm

Smash- - - - -Force Sweep

Sundering Assault- - - - -Sundering Strike

Crushing Blow- - - - -Guardian Slash

Force Scream- - - - -Blade Storm

Smash- - - - -Force Sweep

Backhand- - - - -Hilt Strike

Vicious Throw- - - - -Dispatch

Enrage- - - - -Combat Focus

Force Choke- - - - -Force Stasis

Assault- - - - -Strike

Invincible- - - - -Warding Call

Endure Pain- - - - -Enure

Saber Ward- - - - -Saber Ward

Intercede- - - - -Guardian Leap

Unleash- - - - -Resolute

Saber Reflect- - - - - Saber Reflect

Edited June 24, 2013 by Thiartc

[Shadowseve]

Jugg Guard

Saber Throw - - - - - Saber Throw

Force Charge - - - - -Force Leap

Crushing Blow- - - - -Guardian Slash

Force Scream- - - - -Blade Storm

Sundering Assault- - - - -Sundering Strike

Backhand- - - - -Hilt Strike

Smash- - - - -Force Sweep

Retaliation- - - - -Riposte

Force Scream- - - - -Blade Storm

Smash- - - - -Force Sweep

Sundering Assault- - - - -Sundering Strike

Crushing Blow- - - - -Guardian Slash

Force Scream- - - - -Blade Storm

Smash- - - - -Force Sweep

Backhand- - - - -Hilt Strike

Vicious Throw- - - - -Dispatch

Enrage- - - - -Combat Focus

Force Choke- - - - -Force Stasis

Assault- - - - -Strike

Invincible- - - - -Warding Call

Endure Pain- - - - -Enure

Saber Ward- - - - -Saber Ward

Intercede- - - - -Guardian Leap

Unleash- - - - -Resolute

Saber Reflect- - - - - Saber Reflect

 

Thanks!!

[grallmate]

Good Morning.

 

Did 5 HM FP's, not whipes, no deaths, and that was before i found out we have an AOE taunt, haha.

 

Well done! Glad its going well for you

[sentrix]

The skill tree build link provided in the guide does not seem to work for me. Is there any way somebody can re-upload the original skill tree build provided by this guide? It would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

Edit: The link is now working for me. Ignore my prior comments.

Edited July 4, 2013 by sentrix

[Jenovan]

((Imp <-> Pub translation))

Thanks for that!

 

And to Grall, thanks for this nicely written and very thorough guide. I've been Jugg tanking with my guild since the run-up to 2.0, and generating/keeping AOE threat has been eluding me a bit. I didn't realize Saber Reflect could be used in that way... brilliant. Hoping to go test some of these techniques out soon~

[grallmate]

Thanks for that!

 

And to Grall, thanks for this nicely written and very thorough guide. I've been Jugg tanking with my guild since the run-up to 2.0, and generating/keeping AOE threat has been eluding me a bit. I didn't realize Saber Reflect could be used in that way... brilliant. Hoping to go test some of these techniques out soon~

 

Glad to be of assistance.

[Deathstalker_]

I have a question. I'm currently running a Guardian, (she's level 23), and have her specced full Defense, except for two points in Vigilance to reduce the CD of Sundering Strike. However, I'm considering respeccing into this. The main point of this is getting the Perseverance skill from the Vigilance tree to help boost my Strength a bit; since I'm using Guardian Armoring and Mods, I figure that the extra strength can help to boost my offense a bit while I concentrate my mods on defense. Would this be worth it, or would you suggest staying with this, which is the build I'm currently running?

[darthjanus]

Quick question from a new tank here: The guide says to use Guardian Slash before Sundering Strike in the opener, but if there is more than one boss or a mob should I not use Guardian Slash after Sundering Strike to get the damage spread it offers when the target already has the armor debuff? Thanks!

[Kitru]

Quick question from a new tank here: The guide says to use Guardian Slash before Sundering Strike in the opener, but if there is more than one boss or a mob should I not use Guardian Slash after Sundering Strike to get the damage spread it offers when the target already has the armor debuff? Thanks!

 

You should be using Force Sweep before Guardian Slash, which applies the same armor debuff, allowing Guardian Slash to cleave. Sundering Strike is only really used for Focus generation since Force Sweep is better at applying the armor debuff.

[jedip_enguin]

Bump, didn't this used to be stickied?

[Riivan]

Don't think so. We haven't had any of these guides stickied. I think when the game launched we had a tanking guide stickied but it wasn't particularly good.

[banehammer]

Awesome guide.

A wise man once told me to never trust (the intelligence) of people who talk in absolutes, and you sir, do not talk in absolutes.

 

How is this not a sticky? :/